What are my options after a rod bearing failure

[Mikey]

My car is a 2015, so I don't believe it's under warranty

52211

52212

52213

52214

[Old School]

I assume you are hearing a rod knock

[Mikey]

I assume you are hearing a rod knock

Not sure what I heard, the car started making this noise after having the clutch changed

https://youtu.be/-QliPEnua5o

[Docmartin]

Oof you've had a rough go with that car. Send that sucker to Calvo and get it sorted.

[Mikey]

Oof you've had a rough go with that car. Send that sucker to Calvo and get it sorted.

I want to just light it on fire and be done with it

[SLYBRI]

Man that’s sickening to see, my heart goes out to ya! What oil filter were you running? Doesn’t look like an MO-041 going by the pics (not that it’s the cause…just curious).

Not sure I’m recalling this correctly, but I’m thinking Calvo was one of the shops that advocated converting crankshaft oiling from cross-drilled to high speed so-called “Chevy” oiling. Which cylinders bearing(s) failed?

[Mikey]

Man that’s sickening to see, my heart goes out to ya! What oil filter were you running? Doesn’t look like an MO-041 going by the pics (not that it’s the cause…just curious).

Not sure I’m recalling this correctly, but I’m thinking Calvo was one of the shops that advocated converting crankshaft oiling from cross-drilled to high speed so-called “Chevy” oiling. Which cylinders bearing(s) failed?

I think mobil 1 for whatever reason

No details yet, they had just cut the filter right around closing, so will probably find out today. I didn't think this would be an issue in 2015s.

[ViperSRT]

First task will be to remove the rod caps and see what is damaged. It could be anything from repolishing the crank and installing new bearings, if there is no crank damage, to a more significant rebuild if there is. I have observed your many posts from when you were looking for a car and selecting this one to today. I would venture that car had quite a bit of track usage prior to your ownership, and how it was maintained is crucial to understanding how it failed. I expect that low oil level at some point contributed to the failure. That said there is a lot of debris present so I am crossing my fingers that you find a positive outcome.

[Mikey]

First task will be to remove the rod caps and see what is damaged. It could be anything from repolishing the crank and installing new bearings, if there is no crank damage, to a more significant rebuild if there is. I have observed your many posts from when you were looking for a car and selecting this one to today. I would venture that car had quite a bit of track usage prior to your ownership, and how it was maintained is crucial to understanding how it failed. I expect that low oil level at some point contributed to the failure. That said there is a lot of debris present so I am crossing my fingers that you find a positive outcome.

They're sending the motor off to rebuild. He estimates a complete failure is going to be about 20k. So much for "bulletproof"

[blingnoring]

just curious, since you have to rebuild anyway, is 20k close enough to going with a 9l at this point?

[SRT_BluByU]

What the history of this Snake? was it an old bonderaunt Viper? Reading through your process and experiance with the car.. the extremely worn brakes, aftermarket clutch, apparent exhaust modifications at some point, smoked clutch and now bearings it really makes you wonder what those first 10k miles looked like.. Ive owned a few Gen V Vipers and roughly 100k miles of combined seat time between them all combined and have found them all to be extremely reliable and durable cars. I suppopse following exacting factory maintenance recommendations and parts has helped.

[Mikey]

just curious, since you have to rebuild anyway, is 20k close enough to going with a 9l at this point?

I've already put 15k into the car, I'm done

[Mikey]

What the history of this Snake? was it an old bonderaunt Viper? Reading through your process and experiance with the car.. the extremely worn brakes, aftermarket clutch, apparent exhaust modifications at some point, smoked clutch and now bearings it really makes you wonder what those first 10k miles looked like.. Ive owned a few Gen V Vipers and roughly 100k miles of combined seat time between them all combined and have found them all to be extremely reliable and durable cars. I suppopse following exacting factory maintenance recommendations and parts has helped.

No clue, I have the names of the former owners, not sure if it would say anything if it was a Bonduraunt Viper. This by far has been my worst experience with a car and has really put me off to owning one again, I'm wondering if this could have been caught earlier during an oil change.

I'm leaning on the side of selling it once the motor is done, which is going to bother me since someone is essentially getting a new Viper from my expense

[ViperSRT]

No clue, I have the names of the former owners, not sure if it would say anything if it was a Bonduraunt Viper. This by far has been my worst experience with a car and has really put me off to owning one again, I'm wondering if this could have been caught earlier during an oil change

Given the wear seen visually I would say no doubt an oil analysis performed when you first got it would have been beneficial, and possibly avoided big costs. I really do not understand a $20k price tag unless the engine was damaged beyond repair (block, heads, crank, etc).

[Mikey]

Given the wear seen visually I would say no doubt an oil analysis performed when you first got it would have been beneficial, and possibly avoided big costs. I really do not understand a $20k price tag unless the engine was damaged beyond repair (block, heads, crank, etc).

This is apparently with the slight modifications to address bearing issues and oil consumption. I'm confused as to why they aren't checking part of it in house

Edit: so the 20k is a worst case scenario, hopefully that won't be the case

[jimuaya]

to buy a new engine for it, it would cost you only $18k

[Mikey]

to buy a new engine for it, it would cost you only $18k

Do you have a link for it?

[Steve-Indy]

Suggest that you consider contacting Scot at Prefix and discuss options...i.e. let them do any necessary rebuild vs. new engine(which they could supply).

Link:

https://www.prefix.com/performance/

[Lawineer]

Given the wear seen visually I would say no doubt an oil analysis performed when you first got it would have been beneficial, and possibly avoided big costs. I really do not understand a $20k price tag unless the engine was damaged beyond repair (block, heads, crank, etc).

Yeah, I'd assume $5-7k for a rebuild using existing rod, crank and pistons. You're basically just freshening up the block and replacing bearings and gaskets.
I think you're in a position where you can either take a huge hit on the car and sell it as is or do something like a 9L rebuild and enjoying it. I think you're going to get hurt worse by doing a bare bones rebuild.


This car had to be someone's track car or something. Too much stuff going on to just be bad luck.

[Mikey]

Yeah, I'd assume $5-7k for a rebuild using existing rod, crank and pistons. You're basically just freshening up the block and replacing bearings and gaskets.
I think you're in a position where you can either take a huge hit on the car and sell it as is or do something like a 9L rebuild and enjoying it. I think you're going to get hurt worse by doing a bare bones rebuild.


This car had to be someone's track car or something. Too much stuff going on to just be bad luck.

I can stomach 5-7k. 9L and I'll need headers, maybe a new clutch, and then a new tune. They're denying any issues with the clutch/alignment, I'm just hoping after all this that at least that was sorted

After this, my car has LITERALLY been in the shop more than in my garage

[Aevus]

Suggest that you consider contacting Scot at Prefix and discuss options...i.e. let them do any necessary rebuild vs. new engine(which they could supply).

Link:

https://www.prefix.com/performance/

+1
Better do some improvement while at it

[Aevus]

5-7k for a rebuild, including parts and labor, in 2022..?

Damn guys, you have bargains down south

[AZTVR]

My car is a 2015,


What the history of this Snake? was it an old bonderaunt Viper?


No clue, I have the names of the former owners, not sure if it would say anything if it was a Bonduraunt Viper.

I am pretty confident in my list of known and probable Vipers used by the Bonduraunt school. None are 2015 Vipers.

[Mikey]

Brand new engine will be 40k. Nah, I'm good
He did confirm though, 20k is worst case scenario

Not sure who I spoke to, it wasn't Scot

[Martin]

May as well just go with it - $20k isn't the end of the world. I had to get my sewer line replaced from the house to the street, and it was $40k. Didn't get any joy out of that afterwards - I'd be happy to just turd in the woods rather than pay $40k for the joy of being able to use indoor plumbing. But, that vote didn't go in my favor.

If you can do a 9L, or even just their base rebuild, you'll be happy with it.

[Aevus]

Just did a rebuild (gen 3, modified) and about to do another one for my 2nd engine (stock) and locally in Canada it's between 10k and 20k usd parts & labor. Of course, if the crank is good/useable, if not add 3-7k.

Also, couldnt find a proper used gen3 motor for less than 10-12k. Can't imagine a used gen 5 motor for less than 15-25k, especially these days of backorder-everything...

[Mikey]

May as well just go with it - $20k isn't the end of the world. I had to get my sewer line replaced from the house to the street, and it was $40k. Didn't get any joy out of that afterwards - I'd be happy to just turd in the woods rather than pay $40k for the joy of being able to use indoor plumbing. But, that vote didn't go in my favor.

If you can do a 9L, or even just their base rebuild, you'll be happy with it.

The issue is, I'm already 15k into the car since December with nothing to show for it (35 after the rebuild). I haven't been able to enjoy the car since problems seem to arise shortly after she's out of the shop

[Lawineer]

The issue is, I'm already 15k into the car since December with nothing to show for it (35 after the rebuild). I haven't been able to enjoy the car since problems seem to arise shortly after she's out of the shop

The blown engine is a sunk cost- either in hard cost or resale.

[Mikey]

The blown engine is a sunk cost- either in hard cost or resale.

Yes, but then my losses are cut

[Sniper]

Exactly why I’m glad I just purchased a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty on my 2013.

[quickster2]

I am pretty confident in my list of known and probable Vipers used by the Bonduraunt school. None are 2015 Vipers.

Agree. Based on my tenure as Plant Manager @ CAAP (late 2015 to all of 2016) the "Bondurant cars" were built during my time at the plant. They were all 2016's by my memory.

[Mikey]

If anyone knows anyone who is looking to buy, let me know. After this, the car shouldn't need anything.

Clutch 1k miles ago
Tires 4.5k k miles ago
Pads 8k miles ago.
Belanger exhaust, hi flow cats, underdrive pulley, k&n intake
Hp tuners dongle.
Front PPF
Ta aero
Sidewinder wheels

[ViperTony]

The issue is, I'm already 15k into the car since December with nothing to show for it (35 after the rebuild). I haven't been able to enjoy the car since problems seem to arise shortly after she's out of the shop

I get it and I understand. I'd contact Calvo...see if they're interested in assessing the situation, doing a thorough inspection, etc. and their rebuild service. You don't have to get a 9L, etc. but when it leaves their shop then you'll have peace of mind and will be able to enjoy it.

[Bruce H.]

Tracking a Gen V wouldn't have caused any of these problems I don't think, mostly just tires, pads and rotors. Inadequate maintenance, oil level and owner abuse would. Bondurant Vipers were maintained well by all accounts and have probably been quite reliable. Does anyone know how the Bondurant Vipers are holding up?

[Mikey]

I get it and I understand. I'd contact Calvo...see if they're interested in assessing the situation, doing a thorough inspection, etc. and their rebuild service. You don't have to get a 9L, etc. but when it leaves their shop then you'll have peace of mind and will be able to enjoy it.

It's heading over to prefix, so it should be fine. At current trade in, I'll be looking at a 60k loss in under a year. Smh

[BSLSK]

I remember I thought you said you got a PPI on the car before you purchased it. Is there no recourse there?

[Mikey]

I remember I thought you said you got a PPI on the car before you purchased it. Is there no recourse there?

No clue. They missed the tires on the PPI, wouldn't be surprised if the dealer slid them some extra cash.



This is the breakdown
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[SRT_BluByU]

If anyone knows anyone who is looking to buy, let me know. After this, the car shouldn't need anything.

Clutch 1k miles ago
Tires 4.5k k miles ago
Pads 8k miles ago.
Belanger exhaust, hi flow cats, underdrive pulley, k&n intake
Hp tuners dongle.
Front PPF
Ta aero
Sidewinder wheels

Of that really only the clutch, pads, bearings have been previous owner issues.. the rest was for fun or just normal wear and tear…


Tracking a Gen V wouldn't have caused any of these problems I don't think, mostly just tires, pads and rotors. Inadequate maintenance, oil level and owner abuse would. Bondurant Vipers were maintained well by all accounts and have probably been quite reliable. Does anyone know how the Bondurant Vipers are holding up?
Agree completely..

[Mikey]

Of that really only the clutch, pads, bearings have been previous owner issues.. the rest was for fun or just normal wear and tear…


Agree completely..

The mods came with the car, except the dongle.
They're adamant about shipping the engine off to prefix and I don't know enough to fight em on it

[Lawineer]

Tracking a Gen V wouldn't have caused any of these problems I don't think, mostly just tires, pads and rotors. Inadequate maintenance, oil level and owner abuse would. Bondurant Vipers were maintained well by all accounts and have probably been quite reliable. Does anyone know how the Bondurant Vipers are holding up?


Eh, tracking a car enough will definitely accelerate wear on the engine. Getting 100-120 hours out of a tracked engine is really good. That's about 7,000 highway miles.
My BRZ engine is about that and it's smoking and pretty tired. It's also not an 8.4L V10.

[Brian E]

They're adamant about shipping the engine off to prefix and I don't know enough to fight em on it

Any thoughts on just sending the car to prefix and let them do the entire job? At that point you can be confident the entire process, engine removal, rebuild, install and final road test was done right. If for some reason you do have a problem you only have one shop to deal with and avoid the finger pointing.

[Mikey]

Any thoughts on just sending the car to prefix and let them do the entire job? At that point you can be confident the entire process, engine removal, rebuild, install and final road test was done right. If for some reason you do have a problem you only have one shop to deal with and avoid the finger pointing.

For some reason I was thinking prefix was in Tomball, the shipping alone would be 4-5k roundtrip

[Bruce H.]

Getting 100-120 hours out of a tracked engine is really good.

GTFO...that's practically defined as the recommended break-in on a Viper, lol!

Edit...Gen V Viper.

[Viper98]

Mikey, bad luck bro! I feel your anxiety!
I had my gen 2 engine rebuilt by Prefix a couple years ago. Somehow water got into the crankcase: they could only assume from the timing cover gasket down by the oil pan is where it leaked. Anyway, they did a great job. Just a rebuild with new cam and springs, gaskets, hot tank, etc. Prefix rebuilt it, sent back to Mark J and crew and installed. Cost; parts & labor: ~ 17K. They even sent a “report” of specs and dyno runs. My car runs great!!!
I totally understand your feelings to want to sell….at least at present date…, but you may change your mind once you get it back. Shit happens, man. Sorry bro.

Let Prefix do it: have peace of mind.

Wishing the best for ya

[Mikey]

Mikey, bad luck bro! I feel your anxiety!
I had my gen 2 engine rebuilt by Prefix a couple years ago. Somehow water got into the crankcase: they could only assume from the timing cover gasket down by the oil pan is where it leaked. Anyway, they did a great job. Just a rebuild with new cam and springs, gaskets, hot tank, etc. Prefix rebuilt it, sent back to Mark J and crew and installed. Cost; parts & labor: ~ 17K. They even sent a “report” of specs and dyno runs. My car runs great!!!
I totally understand your feelings to want to sell….at least at present date…, but you may change your mind once you get it back. Shit happens, man. Sorry bro.

Let Prefix do it: have peace of mind.

Wishing the best for ya

Thanks boss, apparently an ACR is at the shop as well with a blown motor, so mine will get shipped out after his. I wouldn't be AS upset if these things didn't all happen within the first 6 months of ownership. I'm glad yours is back up to speed, I heard they tune the engine and everything so I don't need to break it in

I probably just need time to cool off, the car is the only thing I splurge on so I definitely wouldn't be happy with just a corolla in the garage

[SRT_BluByU]

send the whole car to Prefix if you're going full rebuild including R&R engine.. they're awesome to work with.

[Martin]

This is a tough one - I've been following, and I'd be in a bad place if this were my car. The emotional thing to do would be to just get it fixed and get it on the road again. I'd likely go that route...

The "logical" thing to do would be to see what all the parts are worth and then make a financial decision. With no parts available anywhere, a donor car might be worth more than the whole car. I hate to say that because it goes against everything I believe in, but in this marketplace, with parts at such a scarcity, the melt value of our cars is more than their face value nowadays. When you think about all the good (and scarce) parts there are, it might just be worth looking at, and then find a clean car to replace it with. Again, disregard if this is a stupid comment.

[Mikey]

This is a tough one - I've been following, and I'd be in a bad place if this were my car. The emotional thing to do would be to just get it fixed and get it on the road again. I'd likely go that route...

The "logical" thing to do would be to see what all the parts are worth and then make a financial decision. With no parts available anywhere, a donor car might be worth more than the whole car. I hate to say that because it goes against everything I believe in, but in this marketplace, with parts at such a scarcity, the melt value of our cars is more than their face value nowadays. When you think about all the good (and scarce) parts there are, it might just be worth looking at, and then find a clean car to replace it with. Again, disregard if this is a stupid comment.

I'm still on the fence. It's one thing to spend 35k to track, upgrade, etc, but 35k just to have it sit at the shop is another

[StrokerAce]

LS swap? :smilielol:


Don't shoot me. Just a joke. :)

[Mikey]

LS swap? :smilielol:


Don't shoot me. Just a joke. :)

This is what I'm looking at right now

Cylinder Block:
Torque Plate Diamond Hone to finish bore
Surface & Square Decks
Hone Cam Bore
Machine for Variable Cam Delete
Hone Lifter Bores

Crankshaft- Repair Damage:
Wet Magnaflux (crack check)
Clearance Grind Mains
Grind Rods to 2.100 Chevy Journal
Radius Oil Holes
Key Nose
Nitride
Straighten & Micro-Polish
Precision Balance

Bearings:
Mopar Main Bearing Set w/ Calico CT1 Surface Coating
Clevite HNK Rod Bearings w/ Tri-Armor Coating

Connecting Rods:
4340 H-Beam Steel Connecting Rods w/ ARP 2000 Rod Bolts

Pistons:
Mahle Custom Forged Aluminum Pistons
Double Pin Oilers
Accumulator Groove
Full Coating Package
Mahle Wrist Pins w/ Wire locks

Piston Rings:
Mahle Performance Ring package-
1.2mm Steel Nitride Top Ring
1.2m Napier Second Ring
2.0mm Standard Tension Oil Ring

Camshaft/Timing- Variable Cam Delete
EED/LSM Billet Steel Camshaft
Bronze Thrust Plate
Husco Valve Delete kit
Mopar Gen 3 Double Roller Timing set
Lifter/Pushrods
Low bleed/ short travel hydraulic roller lifters
Jesel steel dog bone lifter guides
One Piece Alloy Pushrods

Cylinder heads:
Rottler 5 angle single cut valve job
Dual micro-polished valve springs
lightweight steel retainers

Gasket & Seals:
Cometic MLS head gaskets- Progressive water control ports
Mopar Performance Gaskets and Seals

Other: Mopar Idler Pulley
Mopar Serpentine Belt Tensioner
Serpentine Bolt
Spark Plugs
Oil filter

[ViperSRT]

Don't forget to replace the oil cooler and lines. They may contain a lot of debris to foul the rebuild.

[Mikey]

Don't forget to replace the oil cooler and lines. They may contain a lot of debris to foul the rebuild.

Noted, we still haven't pulled the engine so I'm trying to make a list of everything to knock out during the build. Anyone recommend Belander headers?
I'm curious as to why he's doing a 5 cut valve job rather than porting, maybe to keep the low end Torque?

[SRT_BluByU]

why all the modification and replacement of parts on a 10k mile motor..especially if the bearing halve didn't spin and the rod checks out? These were very well built engines from the factory with great parts..

[Mikey]

why all the modification and replacement of parts on a 10k mile motor..especially if the bearing halve didn't spin and the rod checks out? These were very well built engines from the factory with great parts..

I was wanting to go ahead and make more power if I'm going to rebuild, he said it'll be good for about 750-800hp depending on the cam size

[Viper98]

Mikey, dude, may I ask?: what are your plans for the car?: road race, time attack, mild street?

I’m a little confused: first, you’re not sure what to do without spending a lot of money and now this. Kinda opposite there, ay? Like BluByu said, these are good engines. You don’t have to go to THAT extent if just street and spirited is mostly in your future. I mean, it’s your car buddy, do as you wish. I think we are just trying to save you some money. Again, my friend, your car…just don’t let someone talk you into stuff you really don’t need.

Maybe ask some of the racers here. Get their input.

Think about it, ay!

[Mikey]

Mikey, dude, may I ask?: what are your plans for the car?: road race, time attack, mild street?

I’m a little confused: first, you’re not sure what to do without spending a lot of money and now this. Kinda opposite there, ay? Like BluByu said, these are good engines. You don’t have to go to THAT extent if just street and spirited is mostly in your future. I mean, it’s your car buddy, do as you wish. I think we are just trying to save you some money. Again, my friend, your car…just don’t let someone talk you into stuff you really don’t need.

Maybe ask some of the racers here. Get their input.

Think about it, ay?

Just spirited driving, so basically when I was getting pricing 20k out the door was just going to get me back to square one if everything was toast. Then I started factoring if I just had this current shop to disassemble and replace what's needed, I'm still paying a decent coin. So I got to calling around and got a quote for heads and cam build, after paying for engine pull and install, it'll be roughly the same.

So I figured, if I'm already going to be spending money to get a rebuild, it would chap my ass a little less if my car makes "brap brap brap" sounds as opposed to being back to where I started

[StrokerAce]

I don't get the need for all that was quoted. Sound alike they are preying on your fears and the potential unknown. I'm doubting it needs all that work. All that work for an engine that hasn't been checked out? No thanks. I'd like to see it torn down, measurements taken and parts verified as needing replaced or reworked.

[Mikey]

I don't get the need for all that was quoted. Sound alike they are preying on your fears and the potential unknown. I'm doubting it needs all that work. All that work for an engine that hasn't been checked out? No thanks. I'd like to see it torn down, measurements taken and parts verified as needing replaced or reworked.

I was asking for an upgrade rather than rebuilding back to square one. They say this will be 750-800 at the crank. I'm all ears though, we still haven't touched the car yet

[AZTVR]

I have to chuckle when I see posts that say that you don't need to upgrade your Viper's performance. I never saw posts like that before. Most posts are "how to get more power" or "time for the modifications to start." Well, at least in threads where the major subject isn't about investment value.

[StrokerAce]

Nobody is saying he doesn't need to. But adding more cost to a rebuild for more power goes a complete 180 from being upset about paying anything in excess to the already spent $15k just to drive the car.

To get the car running well he "doesn't need" to upgrade anything. But if he wants more power now is the time to do it as it's already down. Don't replace things twice. Save time and money and headaches.

[Lawineer]

Noted, we still haven't pulled the engine so I'm trying to make a list of everything to knock out during the build. Anyone recommend Belander headers?
I'm curious as to why he's doing a 5 cut valve job rather than porting, maybe to keep the low end Torque?

porting heads won't cause loss of low end torque. A valve job is a lot cheaper (though it wont make as much power).

I think you need to figure out what you want and do that. No sense in doing things like getting forged pistons unless you're really going crank some power out of it. It's not like forged pistons will add to the life of the engine or something.
Also, if you're trying to make 800hp NA with stock displacement, it's probably going to be pretty choppy. If you're going to add boost, you'll want lower compression.

Make a plan and then do it. Don't just haphazardly upgrade random parts.

[Mikey]

Nobody is saying he doesn't need to. But adding more cost to a rebuild for more power goes a complete 180 from being upset about paying anything in excess to the already spent $15k just to drive the car.

To get the car running well he "doesn't need" to upgrade anything. But if he wants more power now is the time to do it as it's already down. Don't replace things twice. Save time and money and headaches.

When looking at upgrades, i was seeing 30+ at prefix and I wasn't willing. After seeing that I can have a 750hp viper for the same price as if the motor was completely toast. I'm a little less upset, actually excited

[Mikey]

porting heads won't cause loss of low end torque. A valve job is a lot cheaper (though it wont make as much power).

I think you need to figure out what you want and do that. No sense in doing things like getting forged pistons unless you're really going crank some power out of it. It's not like forged pistons will add to the life of the engine or something.
Also, if you're trying to make 800hp NA with stock displacement, it's probably going to be pretty choppy. If you're going to add boost, you'll want lower compression.

Make a plan and then do it. Don't just haphazardly upgrade random parts.

I'm going to give him a call, I told him it's going to be an NA car that's not tracked so I'll see what he recommends. I suspect it's to fit my budget, I'd like to stay under 20 out the door. (Pulling the engine, the build, installation, tune, etc)

Frankly, if he gives me a 750hp motor, I'm not too concerned on how he does it.

[Gen5snake]

This is the route I would go. $18k plus shipping. Send them your core back. It's not a tough job to do if you have the garage space.


52220

[StrokerAce]

I build 750hp for about $20k, soup to nuts, with an LS. You BETTER get 750hp out of a Viper when supplying the complete engine.

[Lawineer]

If you’re trying to get more power, I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be porting the heads. I am not super familiar with this engine but you’d think that would be a must- do for a street car. It increases power without affecting driveability.


It seems like you’re only a crankshaft away from a 9L stroker. Why not do that?

When you say 750-800, are you talking rwhp or crank?

[Mikey]

If you’re trying to get more power, I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t be porting the heads. I am not super familiar with this engine but you’d think that would be a must- do for a street car. It increases power without affecting driveability.


It seems like you’re only a crankshaft away from a 9L stroker. Why not do that?

When you say 750-800, are you talking rwhp or crank?

Crank, I'm visiting the new shop Monday and I'll see if I can get a better idea of what we're doing. He's the engine builder for a lot of the viper race teams and does some work with Calvo, so I'm sure some items are due to my limited budget

[Mikey]

I build 750hp for about $20k, soup to nuts, with an LS. You BETTER get 750hp out of a Viper when supplying the complete engine.

When looking at the other options, this was a bargain. Viper wise that is. 16.6 for the build then factor 2-3 to pull and install then need headers and a tune

[Lawineer]

If the heads are off the car, port them, imo. Really not a good place to save money on a performance build.

[SRT_BluByU]

Gen V are CNC ported from the factory... these are REALLY well built engines right out of the box. It seems like the oil pan can be dropped with the engine in the car.. any reason why the crank and rod bearings cant be done on the lift with the engine in if the bearing halves didnt spin and the crank only needs a light polish?

[Gen5snake]

The car is going to Prefix...you will do fine there. The heads are already nicely CNC ported...they can't take much more meat off of them before they start hitting the water jackets. I don't know how much benefit you'll see from porting on these...they will let you know if you're missing out on anything big by not giving them an additional massage....and who cares about peak HP....it's all about area under the curve.

[Lawineer]

The car is going to Prefix...you will do fine there. The heads are already nicely CNC ported...they can't take much more meat off of them before they start hitting the water jackets. I don't know how much benefit you'll see from porting on these...they will let you know if you're missing out on anything big by not giving them an additional massage....and who cares about peak HP....it's all about area under the curve.


Ahh. This makes more sense. Also explains why the cars respond so well to headers and exhaust.

Mikey: Keep in mind 750hp isn't much more than factory 645. As you can tell, I'm not intimately familiar with these cars, but it would seem very odd that you'd need to upgrade rods and pistons to make another 105hp- about 15% more power. I'm pretty sure guys run blowers on stock bottom ends without problems. I would just upgrade the rod bolts and call it good.

[ViperGeorge]

The Prefix 9 Liter Extreme motor makes 800HP at the crank. They put mine on an engine dyno and that is what it did, like exactly 800HP.

[Mikey]

I'm sending the motor to Kevin at Exotic Engine Development. After my conversation with him this afternoon, I have no doubt that he'll get me squared away

I'm trying to avoid the "while we're in there" syndrome, he's estimating 700whp, that should be plenty for what I use the car for

[Lawineer]

I'm sending the motor to Kevin at Exotic Engine Development. After my conversation with him this afternoon, I have no doubt that he'll get me squared away

I'm trying to avoid the "while we're in there" syndrome, he's estimating 700whp, that should be plenty for what I use the car for

Would be a very impressive NA build. Almost exactly 100hp/L out of a massive 8.4. Sounds awesome. I bet you'll love the extra 200 horses.

[ellowviper]

I'd like to know definitively where the metal particulates are originating from (given the amount). Bearing and most of the internals can be done without removing the engine from the vehicle (done it twice)....and I don't think bad rod or main bearings would result in particulates like those in the oil and filter. However if you don't know the cause of the metal particulates...sort of a moot discussion point. My bet is on cam journals which would require extensive reworking, maybe even a new block depending on the scoring. Be curious as to what is actually found during the teardown...assuming full disclosure is provided.

[Mikey]

Would be a very impressive NA build. Almost exactly 100hp/L out of a massive 8.4. Sounds awesome. I bet you'll love the extra 200 horses.

My neighbors won't

[StrokerAce]

My neighbors won't


I open the cutouts for one neighbor. He is in to muscle/sports cars and he thinks the electric cutout is the cats ass coolest thing. Haha A couple neighbors give me the dirty looks but oh well. You'll be fine. :)

[Mikey]

Anyone have a set of belanger headers they want to sell? Install and pull is going to be 4k, so I'll be over budget but I can't bastardize the build by cheaping out on headers

[Lawineer]

My neighbors won't

I have a unbelievably pain in the ass neighbor. He literally stormed INTO my house because my guy's night (steak and cigars type thing) on a freaking Tuesday was too loud for him. I told him that next time he's getting shot. He was complaining about my dog running on his roof (zero chance, she sleeps in bed with the humans). Turns it was a squirrel running across his roof. Yes, this MF complains about SQUIRRELS on his roof making too much noise.

Needless to say, after I installed in high flow cats, I made sure I drove the Viper to work every morning, leaving at 6AM.

He's also the kind of nosey jackass that asks me why I am working on my car and I don't just pay a mechanic and once told me not to waste so much of my money on cars.

[V10LEE]

Noted, we still haven't pulled the engine so I'm trying to make a list of everything to knock out during the build. Anyone recommend Belander headers?
I'm curious as to why he's doing a 5 cut valve job rather than porting, maybe to keep the low end Torque?

Not a fan of Belanger headers. Get a 5 into1 header instead like American Racing header. Viper has enough low and mid range power. The 5 into1 will net you more higher peak power.

[Jack B]

That was my thought also, that is a major amount of large metal shavings. That failure was not a simple turned rod bearing. For information purposes, the viper does not have cam bearings, you could be right, the source could be the cam journals.

Just an opinion, Prefix is the bullet-proof option and a pleasure to work with. they did my HC/9L, the engine dyno was 780. I also had them do a break-in on the dyno



I'd like to know definitively where the metal particulates are originating from (given the amount). Bearing and most of the internals can be done without removing the engine from the vehicle (done it twice)....and I don't think bad rod or main bearings would result in particulates like those in the oil and filter. However if you don't know the cause of the metal particulates...sort of a moot discussion point. My bet is on cam journals which would require extensive reworking, maybe even a new block depending on the scoring. Be curious as to what is actually found during the teardown...assuming full disclosure is provided.

[Mikey]

Not a fan of Belanger headers. Get a 5 into1 header instead like American Racing header. Viper has enough low and mid range power. The 5 into1 will net you more higher peak power.

I was told they tend to exhaust leak after some time

[SRT_BluByU]

I'll second that prefix has been awesome to work with on multiple occasions.

[efnfast]

That was my thought also, that is a major amount of large metal shavings. That failure was not a simple turned rod bearing. For information purposes, the viper does not have cam bearings, you could be right, the source could be the cam journals.

Just an opinion, Prefix is the bullet-proof option and a pleasure to work with. they did my HC/9L, the engine dyno was 780. I also had them do a break-in on the dyno

I thought I read some posts on here about Prefix engines grenading and having to be sent back because they weren't assembled properly? Not saying they do bad work, just that I've seen posts indicating some issues every so often.

[Mikey]

I'll second that prefix has been awesome to work with on multiple occasions.

As far as a rebuild, I'm sure I can't go wrong with any of the Vioer exchanges, calvo, prefix etc. Kevin does all custom work instead of packages, so he was able to build me something more for about the same price as a simple rebuild

[Jack B]

I was told they tend to exhaust leak after some time

I have had both on my G5. I moved to the ARH because the Prefix platform used ARH during development. The ARH are a bit trickier to install. . You must also use the oem gasket (not Balanger gasket) at the heads and you also have to use gaskets on the machined couplings.

[Mikey]

I have had both on my G5. I moved to the ARH because the Prefix platform used ARH during development. The ARH are a bit trickier to install. . You must also use the oem gasket (not Balanger gasket) at the heads and you also have to use gaskets on the machined couplings.

Did you end up keeping your stock headers? I'm trying to move mine to save some coin after this


Edit: So now I'm down to figuring out tuning. Torrie came highly recommended but I'd be paying 2 people for 1 tune (the shop and torrie). The shop I'm working with was the lead tech at Dallas Performance, so I'd imagine he's familiar with tuning a v10, though it's NA

[Lawineer]

Did you end up keeping your stock headers? I'm trying to move mine to save some coin after this


Edit: So now I'm down to figuring out tuning. Torrie came highly recommended but I'd be paying 2 people for 1 tune (the shop and torrie). The shop I'm working with was the lead tech at Dallas Performance, so I'd imagine he's familiar with tuning a v10, though it's NA

Who are you using?
Either way, it's very platform specific.

[Mikey]

Who are you using?
Either way, it's very platform specific.

The shop I'm at is with Luke Oas, I'd prefer to use Torrie, but not going to pay double to do it

[Jack B]

i did keep the stock headers, cats and muflers



Did you end up keeping your stock headers? I'm trying to move mine to save some coin after this


Edit: So now I'm down to figuring out tuning. Torrie came highly recommended but I'd be paying 2 people for 1 tune (the shop and torrie). The shop I'm working with was the lead tech at Dallas Performance, so I'd imagine he's familiar with tuning a v10, though it's NA

[Mikey]

Can anyone confirm when the appropriate time to check the oil is? I checked it once a week when it was fully cold, always came out fine. The shop that cut the filter open said it was on the low end near the crosshatch

[SRT_BluByU]

in the owners manual; with engine at operating temp, 5 min after shutdown.. while on level surface (paraphrased).

[ViperGeorge]

in the owners manual; with engine at operating temp, 5 min after shutdown.. while on level surface (paraphrased).

Bingo, the winning answer. Checking the oil cold can result in a safe reading when the engine is in fact low on oil. As I have said a dozen times on this forum the dipstick is designed to account for the oil left in the engine immediately (within 5 minutes) of engine shutdown. Checking it cold allows for more oil to drain from the engine into the pan causing the level to appear higher. I have even posted an email from the SRT engineer responsible for the oiling system that confirms exactly this. He said the V10 is a big engine (duh) and there is a lot of oil that can be left in the engine immediately after shutdown.

I have posted pictures of my dipstick after sitting overnight and immediately after shutdown. The difference in readings is noticeable (at least a quart or more). I know that many people on here think it is ok to check the oil when cold, that is their choice. BUT please don't bash me because you disagree with the engineers or the owners manual. I for one think it is prudent to follow the procedure laid out in the manual.

[Mikey]

Bingo, the winning answer. Checking the oil cold can result in a safe reading when the engine is in fact low on oil. As I have said a dozen times on this forum the dipstick is designed to account for the oil left in the engine immediately (within 5 minutes) of engine shutdown. Checking it cold allows for more oil to drain from the engine into the pan causing the level to appear higher. I have even posted an email from the SRT engineer responsible for the oiling system that confirms exactly this. He said the V10 is a big engine (duh) and there is a lot of oil that can be left in the engine immediately after shutdown.

I have posted pictures of my dipstick after sitting overnight and immediately after shutdown. The difference in readings is noticeable (at least a quart or more). I know that many people on here think it is ok to check the oil when cold, that is their choice. BUT please don't bash me because you disagree with the engineers or the owners manual. I for one think it is prudent to follow the procedure laid out in the manual.

When searching around I kept seeing different answers, but this makes sense. On average, how much oil does it consume? I drove 1k miles within that 3 weeks after leaving the shop, can't imagine it got substantially low within that time

[StrokerAce]

I can confirm. If I check it cold or warm it's about 1/8-1/4 inch lower on the stick when warm.

[Old School]

I'll bet a bunch of guys on this forum are checking their oil right now....

[ViperGeorge]

When searching around I kept seeing different answers, but this makes sense. On average, how much oil does it consume? I drove 1k miles within that 3 weeks after leaving the shop, can't imagine it got substantially low within that time

Well that depends. My street driven 2014 GTS burns virtually no oil in 3,000 miles (I change it every 3,000). My 2017 ACR will burn a quart or two if it has been tracked hard, which it usually is. Remember too that if you or the shop checked your car cold it may have been low to start.

[SRT_BluByU]

over a 4 engine avg.. all broken in correctly.. same driver.. same drive cycle.. avg was around 1qt/1k miles

- - - Updated - - -


I for one think it is prudent to follow the procedure laid out in the manual.

i never understand why this isnt obvious to all...

[Old School]

My Gen 3 owner's manual states to check oil 5 minutes after a fully warmed up engine is turned off or after sitting overnight, on a level surface.

It also states to add oil if below the safe mark. I would never let it get this low, it's always topped off.

[VENOM-TA]

The oil thing has been debated many, many times on here and the facebook Viper Forums.. there have been a plethora of different answers.. I decided to do my own regimen on checking the oil..
my car sits for weeks at a time mostly, weekend drives or get togethers with the local Viper group so when I do change the oil it’s every 6 months, I don’t ever get close to 3000 miles. When checking the oil I check it cold before I drive it for that 1st time by taking out the dip stick, wiping it clean, reinserting it and then pulling and reading it.. it’s always at the top of the full hash marks.
I do this just to ensure there is oil in it before initial start up after sitting for days..
After driving it I’ll let it sit for 5-8 minutes and then check it again. On my car the oil is again at the top of the full hash marks..
there has never been the slightest difference for me on checking cold or warm..
When I did my research on these cars while looking for one that was the one thing that scared me the most, oil engine failures.
I’m not saying this is the best way to do it but it works for me and I’ve now had the car 1.9 years and changed the oil 4 times in the 5000 miles I’ve personally put on it..
I’ve also done a few Blackstone oil analysis samples and have all come back with flying colors..

[Mikey]

The oil thing has been debated many, many times on here and the facebook Viper Forums.. there have been a plethora of different answers.. I decided to do my own regimen on checking the oil..
my car sits for weeks at a time mostly, weekend drives or get togethers with the local Viper group so when I do change the oil it’s every 6 months, I don’t ever get close to 3000 miles. When checking the oil I check it cold before I drive it for that 1st time by taking out the dip stick, wiping it clean, reinserting it and then pulling and reading it.. it’s always at the top of the full hash marks.
I do this just to ensure there is oil in it before initial start up after sitting for days..
After driving it I’ll let it sit for 5-8 minutes and then check it again. On my car the oil is again at the top of the full hash marks..
there has never been the slightest difference for me on checking cold or warm..
When I did my research on these cars while looking for one that was the one thing that scared me the most, oil engine failures.
I’m not saying this is the best way to do it but it works for me and I’ve now had the car 1.9 years and changed the oil 4 times in the 5000 miles I’ve personally put on it..
I’ve also done a few Blackstone oil analysis samples and have all come back with flying colors..

That's one thing I'll be adding to the regimen after this rod bearing, the oil samples

[SRT_BluByU]

My Gen 3 owner's manual states to check oil 5 minutes after a fully warmed up engine is turned off or after sitting overnight, on a level surface.

It also states to add oil if below the safe mark. I would never let it get this low, it's always topped off.

Gen V omits the sitting overnight part..

[ViperGeorge]

Gen V omits the sitting overnight part..

My guess is that they realized that the Gen 5 engine was very sensitive to a low oil level given the number of failures. Some failures were clearly due to debris but others appear to have resulted from low oil. Even the Gen 3 had oiling issues as it did not have the swinging oil pickup found in the Gen 4. Hard cornering or high banking could result in a temporary drop in oil pressure which could result in engine failure. My 2006 GTS lost an engine at Pocono from this deficiency. When getting a new engine I had Arrow (now Prefix) install the Gen 4 swinging oil pickup. Gen 3 owners should consider this upgrade.

[StrokerAce]

Wait, they made a 2006 GTS? I thought it was just an SRT10 Coupe.

[AZTVR]

My Gen 3 owner's manual states to check oil 5 minutes after a fully warmed up engine is turned off or after sitting overnight, on a level surface.


Gen V omits the sitting overnight part..

It definitely looks like Dodge personnel implemented a change during Gen V production, probably to address an issue and to caution not to check it cold. From various posts made in the past, it appears that the difference between hot vs cold level readings differs pretty much between various cars. Many owners like to blame it as being due to operator error, without having any actual test data.

To be more specific.

The 2013 Gen V owner's manual appears to be like the Gen 3 mentioned above, and states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is turned off or before starting the
engine after it has sat overnight."

The 2014-2017 Gen V owner's manuals states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is shut off. Do not check oil level
before starting the engine after it has sat overnight.
Checking engine oil level when the engine is cold will
give you an incorrect reading."

[ViperGeorge]

Wait, they made a 2006 GTS? I thought it was just an SRT10 Coupe.

Yea, you're right but I still think of it as a GTS like the Gen 2.

[ViperGeorge]

It definitely looks like Dodge personnel implemented a change during Gen V production, probably to address an issue and to caution not to check it cold. From various posts made in the past, it appears that the difference between hot vs cold level readings differs pretty much between various cars. Many owners like to blame it as being due to operator error, without having any actual test data.

To be more specific.

The 2013 Gen V owner's manual appears to be like the Gen 3 mentioned above, and states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is turned off or before starting the
engine after it has sat overnight."

The 2014-2017 Gen V owner's manuals states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is shut off. Do not check oil level
before starting the engine after it has sat overnight.
Checking engine oil level when the engine is cold will
give you an incorrect reading."

Yup. They also changed the dipstick sometime in 2014.

[StrokerAce]

Yea, you're right but I still think of it as a GTS like the Gen 2.

I remember when they brought it back. I love the coupe.

[Mark1107]

Does anyone know the part number of the more recent dipstick? I can’t tell how much oil I have in the car and it drives me nuts. One half of the dipstick reads different than the other side. It’s bullshit.

[camarochevy1970]

2017 dipstick does the same thing

[Gen5snake]

To be more specific.

The 2013 Gen V owner's manual appears to be like the Gen 3 mentioned above, and states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is turned off or before starting the
engine after it has sat overnight."

The 2014-2017 Gen V owner's manuals states:
"The best time to check the oil level is approximately five minutes after a
fully warmed engine is shut off. Do not check oil level
before starting the engine after it has sat overnight.
Checking engine oil level when the engine is cold will
give you an incorrect reading."


This is fantastic...this exemplifies Dodge in classic fashion. You must start the engine, fully warm it up, shut it off and wait 5 minutes to see if you just destroyed your engine because it was low on oil.

[StrokerAce]

This is fantastic...this exemplifies Dodge in classic fashion. You must start the engine, fully warm it up, shut it off and wait 5 minutes to see if you just destroyed your engine because it was low on oil.

I check before and after. It seems to be a linear change. I had to add about 1/2 a quart between oil changes a few changes ago but the last two I haven't. But the split between cold and warm was the same.

The car only had 6k miles on it so not sure why it's different now (just under 10k miles) but the delta seems to always be the same. I let it set for an hour after changing it the last time so I took a pic of the dipstick. Then, I took another pic after it was warm and I gave it 5 minutes. Then did it at ten minutes. When

[Mikey]

I check before and after. It seems to be a linear change. I had to add about 1/2 a quart between oil changes a few changes ago but the last two I haven't. But the split between cold and warm was the same.

The car only had 6k miles on it so not sure why it's different now (just under 10k miles) but the delta seems to always be the same. I let it set for an hour after changing it the last time so I took a pic of the dipstick. Then, I took another pic after it was warm and I gave it 5 minutes. Then did it at ten minutes. When

Mine seemed to be consuming a good amount of oil then, not sure how uncommon that is

[Lawineer]

This is fantastic...this exemplifies Dodge in classic fashion. You must start the engine, fully warm it up, shut it off and wait 5 minutes to see if you just destroyed your engine because it was low on oil.

How do you fuck up a dipstick. It's literally a STICK you stick into the oil. That's it. It is the most crude way I can think of to measure oil levels.

Honestly, why doesn't the car have a (better?) oil level sensor?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

How do you fuck up a dipstick. It's literally a STICK you stick into the oil. That's it. It is the most crude way I can think of to measure oil levels.

Honestly, why doesn't the car have a (better?) oil level sensor?

Oil level sensors are ok for basic cars like a soccer mom's minivan that spends most of its life 1 qt down. For more high-performance based ( expensive) engines dipsticks are still by far the best way togo. The dipstick can also give you more information then just your oil level. The best part about oil level sensors unfortunately is they are prone fail or give false readings so they really should be a reference only tool backed up by dipstick

[ViperJon]

Checking engine oil level when the engine is cold will
give you an incorrect reading."

Here we go again. That is of course unless you know EXACTLY on the dipstick where 11 quarts of oil in a cold engine should be.

I change my own oil. When I do, I let the oil drain out for hours, sometimes overnight. There is not a drop coming out of it by morning. It is completely empty. I put the filter on and the oil pan bolt back in. Then I put in exactly 11 quarts of oil. Not 10....not 10 1-2/".....11. Then it again sits for hours till its as drained into the pan as humanly possible. Then I note where exactly 11 quarts of oil is on the dipstick. Cold. It is not possible to be more accurate there is no oil in the motor anywhere. I know with zero doubt where 11 quarts of oil should be cold. And that is what I use. There is no smearing from hot oil and there is no ambiguity it is precisely exact. Cold and the next morning.

[StrokerAce]

Here we go again. That is of course unless you know EXACTLY on the dipstick where 11 quarts of oil in a cold engine should be.

I change my own oil. When I do, I let the oil drain out for hours, sometimes overnight. There is not a drop coming out of it by morning. It is completely empty. I put the filter on and the oil pan bolt back in. Then I put in exactly 11 quarts of oil. Not 10....not 10 1-2/".....11. Then it again sits for hours till its as drained into the pan as humanly possible. Then I note where exactly 11 quarts of oil is on the dipstick. Cold. It is not possible to be more accurate there is no oil in the motor anywhere. I know with zero doubt where 11 quarts of oil should be cold. And that is what I use. There is no smearing from hot oil and there is no ambiguity it is precisely exact. Cold and the next morning.

Unless you have a different amount in the filter after it's been ran vs what you fill it with out of the 11 quarts.

[Lawineer]

Oil level sensors are ok for basic cars like a soccer mom's minivan that spends most of its life 1 qt down. For more high-performance based ( expensive) engines dipsticks are still by far the best way togo. The dipstick can also give you more information then just your oil level. The best part about oil level sensors unfortunately is they are prone fail or give false readings so they really should be a reference only tool backed up by dipstick

I never said to eliminate the dipstick. But it wouldn't take much to have a decent oil level sensor that could tell you at startup that you're a quart or two low. Heck, the car already has has accelerometers out the ying yang. It could easily even tell if it was on a flat surface. If it's on a flat surface and doesn't have any significant forces (lateral, etc), and the oil level is below X, send a message. It's a pretty small, simple and cheap sensor. Heck, put two next to each other. You know how much that would have saved them in engine recalls? It would cost a dollar, maybe two, for a *good* oil level sensor.

Even aside from that- shit just happens. I had a client who got their oil changed in a relatively nice car. Somehow, some way, something went wrong (can't remember) and all the oil leaked out while they were driving. Oil filters get loose. Things vibrate. Gaskets/crush rings are forgotten. People forget to torque things down (this is why we safety wire bolts). And high performance engines just burn oil, if for no other reason, how they're used.



BTW: what other info are you getting from your dispstick? Or are you referring to finding coolant or something in your oil.

[Lawineer]

Here we go again. That is of course unless you know EXACTLY on the dipstick where 11 quarts of oil in a cold engine should be.

I change my own oil. When I do, I let the oil drain out for hours, sometimes overnight. There is not a drop coming out of it by morning. It is completely empty. I put the filter on and the oil pan bolt back in. Then I put in exactly 11 quarts of oil. Not 10....not 10 1-2/".....11. Then it again sits for hours till its as drained into the pan as humanly possible. Then I note where exactly 11 quarts of oil is on the dipstick. Cold. It is not possible to be more accurate there is no oil in the motor anywhere. I know with zero doubt where 11 quarts of oil should be cold. And that is what I use. There is no smearing from hot oil and there is no ambiguity it is precisely exact. Cold and the next morning.

Man, talk about overkill. The amount of oil that comes out after even 30 min (if you want to be ultra safe) vs 30 hours is pretty much negligible and non-compounding. That's a lot of work for an oil change.

You could let it drain for 15 min or 15 years. If you put 11 quarts back in, you'll only have added 11 quarts. If you're really OCD, just jack the other side of the car up a touch higher.

Just for fun, next time you change your oil, remove the pan after 30 min and put beaker or something underneath. See how much oil comes out. I bet it's less than half an oz.



Unless you have a different amount in the filter after it's been ran vs what you fill it with out of the 11 quarts.

Assuming he uses a new oil filter and he uses a total of 11 quarts (whether it's all in the engine or part of it into the filter and some into the engine), he's going to have 11 quarts in the engine no matter what.

It's an oil change guys. Don't over think it. I just take off the filter and draincock, fill up a bottle for oil analysis, get out from under the car, wash my hands/take off my gloves, get the oil, filter and funnel down from the shelf and lined up, pop the hood, fill the filter with oil, etc, maybe go get a drink of water, come back down and within those 15 min, it's done draining. I put the new filter on, put the draincock back in, low the car, then fill it with the correct amount, check the level, and be on my way.

**except last time. Last time I added a trip to autozone and three hours of cleaning oil out of my garage because I didn't realize I forgot to open the drain pan breather valve and I had about 5 quarts of oil from the daily driver to clean up by the time I heard the bubbling. JFC, what a disaster. The best part was that I couldn't get the draincock back in to fill the engine back up without laying in the oil under the car.
It was also my first oil change, and I discovered the previous oil change monkey lost the gasket for the oil canister solved the problem not by getting a new gasket, but by torquing the fucking oil filter cap down so tight, my impact couldn't take it off and I had to use a long wrench + a mallet. All while laying in used engine oil.

My neighbor-buddy who is also a car guy found it very entertaining.

[Pappy]

Here we go again. That is of course unless you know EXACTLY on the dipstick where 11 quarts of oil in a cold engine should be.

I change my own oil. When I do, I let the oil drain out for hours, sometimes overnight. There is not a drop coming out of it by morning. It is completely empty. I put the filter on and the oil pan bolt back in. Then I put in exactly 11 quarts of oil. Not 10....not 10 1-2/".....11. Then it again sits for hours till its as drained into the pan as humanly possible. Then I note where exactly 11 quarts of oil is on the dipstick. Cold. It is not possible to be more accurate there is no oil in the motor anywhere. I know with zero doubt where 11 quarts of oil should be cold. And that is what I use. There is no smearing from hot oil and there is no ambiguity it is precisely exact. Cold and the next morning.

I did the same process -once. That enabled me to calibrate my dipstick to see exactly where the oil level is when fully serviced and cold. Don't forget to completely fill the oil filter with part of the 11 quarts when installing, or as a better option you can start the engine and then let it cool and drain down to finish the dipstick calibration. That will account for any oil in the oil cooler and lines that may or may not drain into the pan each time the engine is shut down.

[StrokerAce]

Man, talk about overkill. The amount of oil that comes out after even 30 min (if you want to be ultra safe) vs 30 hours is pretty much negligible and non-compounding. That's a lot of work for an oil change.

You could let it drain for 15 min or 15 years. If you put 11 quarts back in, you'll only have added 11 quarts. If you're really OCD, just jack the other side of the car up a touch higher.

Just for fun, next time you change your oil, remove the pan after 30 min and put beaker or something underneath. See how much oil comes out. I bet it's less than half an oz.




Assuming he uses a new oil filter and he uses a total of 11 quarts (whether it's all in the engine or part of it into the filter and some into the engine), he's going to have 11 quarts in the engine no matter what.

It's an oil change guys. Don't over think it. I just take off the filter and draincock, fill up a bottle for oil analysis, get out from under the car, wash my hands/take off my gloves, get the oil, filter and funnel down from the shelf and lined up, pop the hood, fill the filter with oil, etc, maybe go get a drink of water, come back down and within those 15 min, it's done draining. I put the new filter on, put the draincock back in, low the car, then fill it with the correct amount, check the level, and be on my way.

**except last time. Last time I added a trip to autozone and three hours of cleaning oil out of my garage because I didn't realize I forgot to open the drain pan breather valve and I had about 5 quarts of oil from the daily driver to clean up by the time I heard the bubbling. JFC, what a disaster. The best part was that I couldn't get the draincock back in to fill the engine back up without laying in the oil under the car.
It was also my first oil change, and I discovered the previous oil change monkey lost the gasket for the oil canister solved the problem not by getting a new gasket, but by torquing the fucking oil filter cap down so tight, my impact couldn't take it off and I had to use a long wrench + a mallet. All while laying in used engine oil.

My neighbor-buddy who is also a car guy found it very entertaining.

Correct, but not to be measured in this manner. The amount in the pan, which the dip stick measures, is different as that is separate from the filter itself.

[Lawineer]

Correct, but not to be measured in this manner. The amount in the pan, which the dip stick measures, is different as that is separate from the filter itself.

After the first start, it's all the same.

[swexlin]

Yup. They also changed the dipstick sometime in 2014.

Correct. The dipstick on my 2013 the hashmark represented 2 qts, I believe. In other words, at the bottom of the hash, you were down to. The updated stick the hash was 1 qt, to lessen user error.

[StrokerAce]

After the first start, it's all the same.

True. But that isn't what he stated. He said he then looks after it's sat, before he starts it for the first time after an oil change, as his starting point from there forward.

[Dan Cragin]

Kevin at EED or Scott at Prefix will get you sorted. Best to have it dyno tested and qualified as well.

Dan

[Mikey]

Kevin at EED or Scott at Prefix will get you sorted. Best to have it dyno tested and qualified as well.

Dan

Kevin is actually who I'm sending it to, surprisingly only going to be 5 weeks to get it back

[Dan Cragin]

Kevin has done about 40 engines for me over the years. I have always been very happy. The attention to detail is great and every engine is dyno tested and qualified.

FYI, there has been a lot of parts issues lately with Covid fallout, be understanding if it takes a little longer, well worth it.

[Jack B]

If anyone is interested, search my posts. I did an indepth examination of the oiling system. It is precise and factual. There is way too much quasi factual info floating around.

The bottom line is, the dipstick is hard to read and if you read the wrong side you could be low on oil and not know it. If you take a black permenant marker and darken the bottom of the dipstick, it is easier to read.

[Mikey]

If anyone is interested, search my posts. I did an indepth examination of the oiling system. It is precise and factual. There is way too much quasi factual info floating around.

The bottom line is, the dipstick is hard to read and if you read the wrong side you could be low on oil and not know it. If you take a black permenant marker and darken the bottom of the dipstick, it is easier to read.


Any chance you still have those belanger headers?

[ViperJon]

True. But that isn't what he stated. He said he then looks after it's sat, before he starts it for the first time after an oil change, as his starting point from there forward.

There would be zero measurable difference on the stick whether or not there is oil in the filter. You are talking what...less than a pint in a shallow 11 quart oil pan? There is 11 quarts in the motor regardless of where it's sitting.

[Lawineer]

There would be zero measurable difference on the stick whether or not there is oil in the filter. You are talking what...less than a pint in a shallow 11 quart oil pan? There is 11 quarts in the motor regardless of where it's sitting.

The oil pan level would be slightly higher, but yeah, 0.1 quarts isn’t going to be noticeably different.

[Jack B]

100% correct, the only diff is, the dipstick gets easier to read.the longer thecar sits. It is critical to read both sides of the dipstick, the low side is the correct side. The reason is, there is less oil transfer from the tube, which distorts the reading.



There would be zero measurable difference on the stick whether or not there is oil in the filter. You are talking what...less than a pint in a shallow 11 quart oil pan? There is 11 quarts in the motor regardless of where it's sitting.

[StrokerAce]

There would be zero measurable difference on the stick whether or not there is oil in the filter. You are talking what...less than a pint in a shallow 11 quart oil pan? There is 11 quarts in the motor regardless of where it's sitting.

I don't know. If you need to leave the car sit overnight to ensure you get every last drop out I'd think a little bit of variation would be vital to your measurements. lol

[ViperJon]

I don't know. If you need to leave the car sit overnight to ensure you get every last drop out I'd think a little bit of variation would be vital to your measurements. lol

Need has nothing to do with it. I have a big garage, a lift and plenty of time.

[VENOM-TA]

Any chance you still have those belanger headers?
You don’t want them.. ARH headers..

[StrokerAce]

Need has nothing to do with it. I have a big garage, a lift and plenty of time.

Ok, substitute "need" with another word.

Using the lift to change the oil makes it much easier. I will never own another garage without a lift ever again. It just makes it so much easier. Also, allows me to store an extra car. Though it does remind me, I want to get some new fluid for my lift. It's been a couple years now.

[Voice of Reason]

I love the oil debate! IMO throw the manual out the window for how to check, the last thing anyone needs is oil smeared up the dipstick tube causing a false reading. Checking after the car has sat for an extended period of time is the best way to get a clean read. All you need to know is where full is on a cold engine and that exact spot on the dipstick will always represent full. I know that freaks some people out but consider this: If you always measure and cut with the same broken ruler your cuts will always be perfect. Just never change between your ruler and someone else’s.

[Mark1107]

Can anybody help with the part number for the newer dipstick? I’m a dipshit who can’t get a good read on my levels. Please?

[ViperGeorge]

Can anybody help with the part number for the newer dipstick? I’m a dipshit who can’t get a good read on my levels. Please?

I think it might be 5037851AB although I am not positive. Check with JonB at Partsrack but make sure you are getting the later design not the 2013 part. If JonB doesn't have it here is a link to one but call Jon first.

https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-indicator-engine-oil-level~5037851ab.html

[Mark1107]

Thank you bad ass Viper George!

[Mikey]

Is there anything else I should take care of while the motor is out?
I'm having the shop:
Clutch alignment
Steering rack swap
Different headers
Tune

[StrokerAce]

Is there anything else I should take care of while the motor is out?
I'm having the shop:
Clutch alignment
Steering rack swap
Different headers
Tune

Send your window regulators out to get rebuilt. lol

[Lawineer]

Is there anything else I should take care of while the motor is out?
I'm having the shop:
Clutch alignment
Steering rack swap
Different headers
Tune

Tractive coilovers, ACR rear diffuser and ACRE CCB upgrade :D

[Jack B]

Mickey

what are they doing for a "clutch alignment"??




Is there anything else I should take care of while the motor is out?
I'm having the shop:
Clutch alignment
Steering rack swap
Different headers
Tune

[Mikey]

Mickey

what are they doing for a "clutch alignment"??

They're just double checking the other shop's work, the noise prior to cutting the filter was more associated to a misaligned clutch than engine knock

[Jack B]

Has anyone mentioned accusump, that is an inexpensive method to maintain oil pressure. Woodhouse has a viper accumsmp kit that is an easy install.

[Mikey]

Has anyone mentioned accusump, that is an inexpensive method to maintain oil pressure. Woodhouse has a viper accumsmp kit that is an easy install.

It's the first time I've heard of it, if it'll help as I'm paranoid now

[Lawineer]

It's the first time I've heard of it, if it'll help as I'm paranoid now

It's really only helpful if you track the car. It's a poor man's dry sump system, so your car doesn't starve in sustained high G conditions when the oil sloshes to one side. It doesn't create oil or keep your oil levels higher.

[Jack B]

During the G2 era it solved a lot the track related oiling issues. The two quart unit fits nicely on the G5, the G2 cars usually went with the three quart model. As stated, Woodhouse has a kit with all the parts and pieces. The install is an all bolt-on job, no cutting or modifying anything.

I disagree about not creating oil, that is the main purpose, if the pressure drops the reservoir supplies oil to the engine. It is a temporary source of oil, just as oil starvation is typically a temporary event.

Another benefit of the accusump is that it supplies oil to the engine during a cold start, this is prior to the oil pump achieving pressure. I am not advocating everyone install an accusump. but, if you look at the risk/reward aspect, it is a winner for a track car, that is the engineer in me thinking out loud.


It's really only helpful if you track the car. It's a poor man's dry sump system, so your car doesn't starve in sustained high G conditions when the oil sloshes to one side. It doesn't create oil or keep your oil levels higher.

[Mikey]

The 9L option peaked my interest, the crankshaft is about 7400. It's tempting, but need to stay disciplined

[Lawineer]

The 9L option peaked my interest, the crankshaft is about 7400. It's tempting, but need to stay disciplined

I get it's a slippery slope, but if you're going to spend as much as you are and get new rods and new pistons and etc - with as much downtime as you are, dude....

[Mikey]

I get it's a slippery slope, but if you're going to spend as much as you are and get new rods and new pistons and etc - with as much downtime as you are, dude....

I couldn't right now, the market is tanking, then the price to pull/install. Headers of course then the labor for that. I think the stock clutch holds 700whp? So I'd need to consider that too

Edit: yeah I just spoke to sneaky, 4-5 launches with the 9L and the clutch is gone

[theacr_viper]

Been Tracking my 9L with my stock clutch for 2 years now. clutch still healthy. if you want to drag race it or launch it then you need Triple carbon clutch.

[Lawineer]

Been Tracking my 9L with my stock clutch for 2 years now. clutch still healthy. if you want to drag race it or launch it then you need Triple carbon clutch.

This.
Don't drag race out of the hole with drag radials and you won't burn it up haha.

[Mikey]

This.
Don't drag race out of the hole with drag radials and you won't burn it up haha.

You are a terrible influence haha
If I pick up a contract, I'll consider it

[StrokerAce]

Stock clutch will hold well in excess of 1k hp. I still think the issue with launching is the crappy 2.29 first gear.

[SRT_BluByU]

for the outlay mentioned.. a 9L does seem to make sense..

[Lawineer]

Worst case, you upgrade the clutch in a year or two. But you can't just upgrade the crank. That's a whole new bottom end.

[Mikey]

Worst case, you upgrade the clutch in a year or two. But you can't just upgrade the crank. That's a whole new bottom end.

The parts would all be different, but the only additional cost would be the crankshaft

[Lawineer]

The parts would all be different, but the only additional cost would be the crankshaft

If you're saying the only cost now would be the crankshaft, that's correct. If you're saying later, that's incorrect. You'd, at least, need new rods. You'd also probably want a different cam and ned a new tune.

[SRT_BluByU]

that doesnt seem like a lot of extra $$ for the extra hp/tq!

[Mikey]

that doesnt seem like a lot of extra $$ for the extra hp/tq!

If I didn't already drop 15k into it, I'd entertain it

[SRT_BluByU]

I havent heard any regrets with a 9L yet..

[Sniper]

Are there 2 options for 9L?
A 12000 option and a 24000 option?

[Lawineer]

How much more would it cost for the crank?

Given how precise everything has to be, honestly, I've never been a fan of reuisng reground or repolished cranks. Given how precise everything has to be. If you want reliability (miles), a new crank is more important than forged pistons or fancy new forged rods. Forged stuff is for strength (hold the power). It doesn't do a single thing for reliability (durability/wear and tear).

That's just me though.

[Mikey]

How much more would it cost for the crank?

Given how precise everything has to be, honestly, I've never been a fan of reuisng reground or repolished cranks. Given how precise everything has to be. If you want reliability (miles), a new crank is more important than forged pistons or fancy new forged rods. Forged stuff is for strength (hold the power). It doesn't do a single thing for reliability (durability/wear and tear).

That's just me though.

For the 9.0L option, 7.4k then he just changes what we have listed with the appropriate parts

[Mikey]

Are there 2 options for 9L?
A 12000 option and a 24000 option?

I think with prefix, there is.
I'm going with a different builder, all his builds are custom, so you just tell him what you're looking for

[StrokerAce]

I think with prefix, there is.
I'm going with a different builder, all his builds are custom, so you just tell him what you're looking for

Tell him cheap, reliable and fast! lol

[Gen5snake]

Tell him cheap, reliable and fast! lol

Ha ha! That + rainbows and unicorns. Those words don't go together. You start laying out the cash....then you think....hmmmm....while I'm here, let me add this...that...and...this is only X amount of dollars extra...50k later. It's expensive, less reliable and very fast.

[Mikey]

Ha ha! That + rainbows and unicorns. Those words don't go together. You start laying out the cash....then you think....hmmmm....while I'm here, let me add this...that...and...this is only X amount of dollars extra...50k later. It's expensive, less reliable and very fast.

As soon as lawineer mentioned the crankshaft, the hamster wheel started turning for sure
But Kevin was super honest, I told him what my budget is and he came up with a rebuild that'll also make more power. Actually persuaded me against upgrading even more

[Mikey]

Tell him cheap, reliable and fast! lol

I've come to fine out that Viper and cheap no longer go together.
To think that these were selling at a discount+you could get heads and cam done under warranty with arrow at one point. I missed the boat

[SRT_BluByU]

How much more would it cost for the crank?

Given how precise everything has to be, honestly, I've never been a fan of reuisng reground or repolished cranks. Given how precise everything has to be. If you want reliability (miles), a new crank is more important than forged pistons or fancy new forged rods. Forged stuff is for strength (hold the power). It doesn't do a single thing for reliability (durability/wear and tear).

That's just me though.
Stock Factory Gen V internals are already forged IIRC..

[Mikey]

Almost ready to be shipped off 52338

Edit: it's all packed up and being picked up tomorrow to head out to Exotic Engine Development

[Gen5snake]

Almost ready to be shipped off 52338

Edit: it's all packed up and being picked up tomorrow to head out to Exotic Engine Development

It would be great if you can get pictures of the rebuild....just for the cool factor to see all the internals/machining. Engine porn.

[Mikey]

It would be great if you can get pictures of the rebuild....just for the cool factor to see all the internals/machining. Engine porn.

That's actually what I JUST asked, I know he's busy but hopefully he can send some update pics throughout the 5 weeks

[Sniper]

Do you mind sharing what this is going to cost to compare it against Prefix?

[Mikey]

Do you mind sharing what this is going to cost to compare it against Prefix?

Viper exchange was going to be about 30k minimum. Prefix for a stock rebuild would be about 20k out the door to rebuild pull and install, cheaper depending on what's salvageable. I'm going to be about 25k out the door when you include the engine pull, installation, and headers

Kevin does everything custom so he can build according to your needs, the others have a "kit" and what you get is what you get

[Sniper]

For just a heads/cam at Prefix, I was quoted $20900. How are they doing a rebuild for $20000?

[Mikey]

For just a heads/cam at Prefix, I was quoted $20900. How are they doing a rebuild for $20000?

16.6 with Kevin. Because he does his own machining and it's custom. Prefix sells a kit

[SRT_BluByU]

For just a heads/cam at Prefix, I was quoted $20900. How are they doing a rebuild for $20000?

reusing most of the stock parts must be similar in cost to a pair of new heads and cam.. engine come out either way.

[Mikey]

reusing most of the stock parts must be similar in cost to a pair of new heads and cam.. engine come out either way.

I'm getting new and improved parts with the exception of the crankshaft and the heads

[SRT_BluByU]

I think he was asking about the Preifx quote you posted..

[Gen5snake]

For just a heads/cam at Prefix, I was quoted $20900. How are they doing a rebuild for $20000?

I'd imagine Prefix has a huge markup as most Viper work/parts do...silly markup...but it's low volume...you have to make your money somehow. I'm used to the days of doing a heads/cam swap on a mustang for under $2k. The thought of heads/cam for $20k is insane....and I believe they use your heads.

[13COBRA]

I'd imagine Prefix has a huge markup as most Viper work/parts do...silly markup...but it's low volume...you have to make your money somehow. I'm used to the days of doing a heads/cam swap on a mustang for under $2k. The thought of heads/cam for $20k is insane....and I believe they use your heads.

The big difference is there aren't many shops that will do it/can do it in a Viper.

[Mikey]

I'd imagine Prefix has a huge markup as most Viper work/parts do...silly markup...but it's low volume...you have to make your money somehow. I'm used to the days of doing a heads/cam swap on a mustang for under $2k. The thought of heads/cam for $20k is insane....and I believe they use your heads.

I THINK prefix uses CNC heads, which is another 4k. Kevin is using my existing heads. He said my heads will get me about 80% to what CNC heads will

The price is definitely nauseating, I'll be hell bent if I let this car go cheap in the next 2 years

[StrokerAce]

The big difference is there aren't many shops that will do it/can do it in a Viper.

Why is that though? It's a V10 but it's a pushrod 2V/cylinder engine.

[Old School]

Why is that though? It's a V10 but it's a pushrod 2V/cylinder engine.

I have a friend with a machine shop. He won't touch anything that's not mainstream, too much liability.

[13COBRA]

Why is that though? It's a V10 but it's a pushrod 2V/cylinder engine.

They just won't. It's foreign to them...they don't want to do mess it up and buy an engine.

I get it.

[Fulltilt]

It's risk vs reward. Would you want to touch something your unfamiliar with and net roughly the same profit as something you see on a daily basis? My buddy Tim builds engines and one of his big complaints in the past was finding a quality machine shop. I know he went through several before finding someone he trusted.

[Mikey]

Any of you have a dash cam in your cars? I have one still sitting in the box, but I'm hesitant in the chance that's it's used during my spirited drives

[Gen5snake]

Any of you have a dash cam in your cars? I have one still sitting in the box, but I'm hesitant in the chance that's it's used during my spirited drives

I understand your hesitation. It's a double edge sword. My BMW has cams built in all around the car. If it senses that someone hit me/collision, all cameras will start recording (20 seconds prior to collision...I guess they're constantly recording). I can also get a 360 view of anyone around me when it's parked. The problem with these OEM cameras, it logs all the cars metrics while recording. It's great until I do something stupid. If I use the cameras and get into an accident, I have to allow the authorities access to the videos if requested (a part of the user agreement). That's the not so cool part.

Last week some guy in another forum posted a hit and run. Someone sideswiped him, took off and he was able to get the guy's plate. I have mine on...and they're built in. If something happens with yours, there's nothing stopping you from removing it and shoving under your seat. No one will know it was there.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Any of you have a dash cam in your cars? I have one still sitting in the box, but I'm hesitant in the chance that's it's used during my spirited drives

All cars since approx 1995 have data built in thats shows everything. If they really wanted to pinch you they could just plug into the data port and nail you right there or even pull GPS data from your phone. Good news is the standard bureaucratic government aint that smart yet, If your on the NSA watch list then maybe be a little worried. Your local authorities have much bigger problems to worry about then camera footage of a tax paying citizen doing speed runs on some lonesome back roads.

[Gen5snake]

Here are some pictures of our stock heads. They CNC machine the combustion chambers and valve throats. The intake and exhaust runners appear to be untouched, but are very smooth. It looks like they also CNC port match the intake runner...only about a 1/4" deep. I can see how you can benefit from additional porting. Both intake and exhaust runners can be massaged in addition to the valve guide boss.


523525235352354

[Old School]

5235352354


This is obviously a "bang for the buck" CNC porting approach. 80% of the possible improvement is found within the 20% of the port closest to the valve seat.

[Gen5snake]

This is obviously a "bang for the buck" CNC porting approach. 80% of the possible improvement is found within the 20% of the port closest to the valve seat.

Yep a good bang for the buck. Some people think polishing the intake and exhaust runner surface helps flow, in fact it has very little effect on flow as you see Velocity = 0 at the wall. See below velocity profile in a pipe. You can see gains if they reshape, open up or re-position the runners....it all depends on the needs of the engine...that's why I'm sure the ported heads cost mucho $$ on these things...R&D time and low demand.


52356

[Mikey]

And we're off!

52359
52360

[GTS Dean]

All cars since approx 1995 have data built in thats shows everything. If they really wanted to pinch you they could just plug into the data port and nail you right there or even pull GPS data from your phone. Good news is the standard bureaucratic government aint that smart yet, If your on the NSA watch list then maybe be a little worried. Your local authorities have much bigger problems to worry about then camera footage of a tax paying citizen doing speed runs on some lonesome back roads.

These are Crash Data Recorders that lock the OBD data stream from several seconds before, to several seconds after an airbag deployment crash pulse. Several inputs - speed, brake application, steering angle, G, etc. - are written to non-volatile memory . At least in Texas, the CDR cannot be downloaded except by court order and there is a chain of custody for the release of data. This is usually introduced as evidence in the event of serious injury or death in the crash. Perhaps newer applications have a downloadable datastream, but the buffer would have to be very large because it reads new data coming in and drops old data off the back end as long as the key is on and engine is running.

Best defense to all of that is to drive a car with a carb and magneto ignition with no cameras.

[Old School]

According to this list, only Gen5's have Crash Data

http://www.crashforensics.com/files/CDRVehicleList.pdf

[Mikey]

Yep a good bang for the buck. Some people think polishing the intake and exhaust runner surface helps flow, in fact it has very little effect on flow as you see Velocity = 0 at the wall. See below velocity profile in a pipe. You can see gains if they reshape, open up or re-position the runners....it all depends on the needs of the engine...that's why I'm sure the ported heads cost mucho $$ on these things...R&D time and low demand.


52356

Would valve work see a good amount of gains? I know my builder mentioned he has a rottler in house and usually doesn't port unless he's doing high compression large cam builds as he can get you about 80% there without a pair of CNC heads

[Gen5snake]

Would valve work see a good amount of gains? I know my builder mentioned he has a rottler in house and usually doesn't port unless he's doing high compression large cam builds as he can get you about 80% there without a pair of CNC heads

I don't know how your combo would respond to additional valve work. I'm sure companies like PreFix/Calvo...etc. know the perfect recipe with our heads because of many hours spent on a flowbench and dyno. I'd guess that's what you're paying for when you use those guys.

[SRT_BluByU]

According to this list, only Gen5's have Crash Data

http://www.crashforensics.com/files/CDRVehicleList.pdf

That list is just cars using the Bosch software it appears..

This list doesnt specify brand of EDR/CDR.. but also only lists gen V

https://rimkus.com/media/pdfs/Event-Data-Recorder-Vehicle-List-Rimkus-1.11.21.pdf

[StrokerAce]

Too bad we couldn't get Mamo to possibly do some headwork. He isn't cheap but his LS Magic is strong.

[Mikey]

Just got an update from Kevin

The engine spun #8 rod bearing. The crank is damaged but repairable. Everything else was normal wear. The other rod bearings and the main bearings were ok, not great. Not sure what caused it. It's common to lose 3-4 or 7-8. The two main journals that feed those rod pairings have an offset cross drill. We machine the crank and plug those cross drilled holes.

Everything else is ok. Just waiting for some parts.

[Lawineer]

I hate using a damaged and then repaired crank. Makes me cringe.

[Mikey]

I hate using a damaged and then repaired crank. Makes me cringe.

After looking him up, I trust him. The guy is a wizard with the motors
Still waiting on an eta, I think my headers are still getting coated
Looks like I'll be getting it back after thanksgiving

[Lawineer]

It's fine if done correctly (and depending on the damage), but I had it work out poorly for a friend way back when. It takes very little to not be perfect on crank journals to cause utter calamity.

[Mikey]

It's fine if done correctly (and depending on the damage), but I had it work out poorly for a friend way back when. It takes very little to not be perfect on crank journals to cause utter calamity.

I'm not too concerned, he stands behind it as long as I'm not using boost

He's trying to get it back to me before thanksgiving, hopefully torrie can get me around 680-700whp. I cheaped out and went with Belanger headers rather than ARH

[Old School]

Back in the day, one of the big crankshaft houses (don't remember which one), had a great slogan - "If it ain't broke, we can fix it".

[Mikey]

Back in the day, one of the big crankshaft houses (don't remember which one), had a great slogan - "If it ain't broke, we can fix it".

And if it is broke, send it to Kevin

[SRT_BluByU]

Resizing a crank journal(s) shouldnt be a problem… its the welded crank repairs that i dont think id feel comfortable with.

[Mikey]

Resizing a crank journal(s) shouldnt be a problem… its the welded crank repairs that i dont think id feel comfortable with.

Explain

[Dan Cragin]

Many engine builders regrind Viper cranks for a smaller journal which allows them to use a better selection of connecting rods ( IE: Chevy)

[Mikey]

Many engine builders regrind Viper cranks for a smaller journal which allows them to use a better selection of connecting rods ( IE: Chevy)

Nice to see you, Dan
Anything you'd recommend adding or taking care of while the motor is out?

[SRT_BluByU]

Many engine builders regrind Viper cranks for a smaller journal which allows them to use a better selection of connecting rods ( IE: Chevy)

correct... or jsut to clean them up a bit and use oversized bearings (if they can be found). Cranks that are cracked and welded back together and then reground dont give me the warm fuzzies

[Mikey]

correct... or jsut to clean them up a bit and use oversized bearings (if they can be found). Cranks that are cracked and welded back together and then reground dont give me the warm fuzzies

I gave him the go ahead to replace the crank if necessary, looks like it just needs a cleanup
I'm more anxious about the tune than anything

Edit: I've been having issues with vividracing, I called belanger directly and Lou not only took the time to look over pictures of what I already have on the car, he made adjustments while on the phone and got me the pieces i needed. Lou, thanks again

[Mikey]

The company that processes the cranks is very far behind, so we just went ahead and replaced it
Almost there, fingers crossed that it'll be done next week

[Lawineer]

soo... why did you get a stroker?

[Mikey]

soo... why did you get a stroker?

He would have to change out the rest of the components that he already put in

[Lawineer]

How on earth did he install anything in the rotating assembly without a crankshaft? What did he do? Slide on piston rings and a wrist pin?

[Mikey]

How on earth did he install anything in the rotating assembly without a crankshaft? What did he do? Slide on piston rings and a wrist pin?

Shit idk, apparently he's almost done though

[Dan Cragin]

I'm running a car up to Kevin for a Motec install next week.

I will try to get some photos of the shop if anybody is interested.

He is doing a lot of Viper boat engines now, since Ilmore stopped doing them.

[13COBRA]

I'm running a car up to Kevin for a Motec install next week.

I will try to get some photos of the shop if anybody is interested.

He is doing a lot of Viper boat engines now, since Ilmore stopped doing them.

I'd be very interested!

[Mikey]

I'm running a car up to Kevin for a Motec install next week.

I will try to get some photos of the shop if anybody is interested.

He is doing a lot of Viper boat engines now, since Ilmore stopped doing them.

Very interested!

[Mikey]

Engine is finally on its way back
A little under 750 52816

[Copperhead06]

I'm running a car up to Kevin for a Motec install next week.

I will try to get some photos of the shop if anybody is interested.

He is doing a lot of Viper boat engines now, since Ilmore stopped doing them.

Hey do you have Kevin phone number . I have Ilmor boat engine that needs two rods hoping he might be able to get me two .

[StrokerAce]

Mikey, I have a feeling you won't want to sell this car once you drive it and have some fun.

[Mikey]

Mikey, I have a feeling you won't want to sell this car once iyou drive it and have some fun.

We'll see, I'm debating on whether to get an additional tune or not

Prefix was kind enough to get my ecu setup with the stationary cam

[Dan Cragin]

Stick with the Prefix tune, or dyno test it and send them the results to dial in your tune if needed.
The other tuning software is not as good as what Prefix uses, plus many times other tuners just try to
make best power, which can reduce engine life.

Other opinions may differ.

- - - Updated - - -

PM sent

[Mikey]

Stick with the Prefix tune, or dyno test it and send them the results to dial in your tune if needed.
The other tuning software is not as good as what Prefix uses, plus many times other tuners just try to
make best power, which can reduce engine life.

Other opinions may differ.

- - - Updated - - -

PM sent

How would I go about doing so? I don't think they use hptuners anymore

Nvm
Kevin informed me he had prefix set up the ECU for the engine specs, it's good to go

[Dan Cragin]

Looks like you are setup perfectly. Kevin sent out your computer to Prefix to match the combination.

[Mikey]

Looks like you are setup perfectly. Kevin sent out your computer to Prefix to match the combination.

Is picking up a few HP once things loosen up a possibility. I am slightly disappointed by the missing 8hp

[StrokerAce]

Is picking up a few HP once things loosen up a possibility. I am slightly disappointed by the missing 8hp


Drive it in cooler weather.

[13COBRA]

Is picking up a few HP once things loosen up a possibility. I am slightly disappointed by the missing 8hp

8hp isn't noticeable...and WELL within the dyno tolerance.

[Mikey]

8hp isn't noticeable...and WELL within the dyno tolerance.

I figured that was the case, I unfortunately have the k&n intake (came with the car) didn't want to knock down the power anymore

[Lawineer]

You're upset about 8hp? Lol, it's fine.

[13COBRA]

I figured that was the case, I unfortunately have the k&n intake (came with the car) didn't want to knock down the power anymore

Swap it out, factory is better anyways.

8hp is literally the difference in whether or not you fart before sitting down in the car.

[Mikey]

Swap it out, factory is better anyways.

8hp is literally the difference in whether or not you fart before sitting down in the car.

Hahah noted!

[Mikey]

You're upset about 8hp? Lol, it's fine.

For how much I paid, damn right I am

On the bright side, it's a write off so I might be getting a nice amount back

[Mikey]

Well, hello Gorgeous

52854
52855

[VENOM-TA]

Time to get the party started!!!!

[Sniper]

Nice!!!

[Lawineer]

(like)

- - - Updated - - -


Swap it out, factory is better anyways.

8hp is literally the difference in whether or not you fart before sitting down in the car.

Yup. K&N is straight garbage. Lets way more crap through.

[Mikey]

I'll pick up a stock one down the line, I just want my car back for now
Not looking for any further delays

For anyone playing with the idea of a motor build. Kevin was amazing to work with, extremely patient with all my dumb questions, and didn't try to upsell me when I toyed with the idea of a further upgrade

[Mikey]

She's coming home tomorrow!
For some reason I'm paranoid about my parts being stolen, but I'm sure it's all good

Luke drove her 60 miles, he's happy with the alignment and the power. She goes on the lift one more time for one last inspection ,a quick wash before the winter storm and then back home

[Mikey]

https://youtu.be/tCLp-VNL_cE

She's home

[AAA96]

https://youtu.be/tCLp-VNL_cE

She's home

Awesome…..congrats

[Steve M]

I need one of those Mobil 1 15w50 oil caps...

[Sniper]

Sounds really good!

[efnfast]

I'm impressed that was done in just 4 months ... feels like everything automotive today is backlogged like crazy ... i've been waiting ~18 months for an alloy T5 transmission because of an inability to get the gearsets, grrr.