What are my options after a rod bearing failure

[StrokerAce]

Installer needs to walk with a limp for the rest of his life for being shady. What a low life and hopefully he reads this thread.


Mikey, I'm sorry, that's some crap from the installer. He sold you something he didn't do and guarantee he thought he'd just get away with not installing something you paid for with the hopes you'd never find out.

[efnfast]

Out of curiosity how much is this repair going to cost? With a new crank, block/re-sleeved block, etc. I have to imagine you're going to be north of $20k?

[Mikey]

Out of curiosity how much is this repair going to cost? With a new crank, block/re-sleeved block, etc. I have to imagine you're going to be north of $20k?

About 17-20k when you include labor and shipping

11.3k for rebuild salvaging parts
1,250 for installation
585 for freight
3k shipping back and forth
1k for new oil cooler, hoses, and install
2k for the motor to be pulled (this is from l&l performance),

If I successfully win the case, attorneys fees are 40% along with hard costs, so I'm screwed either way

[7TH_SIGN]

Is this the shop? Looks like this guy had a similar issue to you.

53053

[Mikey]

Is this the shop? Looks like this guy had a similar issue to you.

53053


Yup, I asked about that and he said it was a disgruntled brother in law. I figured since he worked at Dallas Performance he would be quality

[V10LEE]

I already paid Kevin a deposit, I'm going to send the entire car over to him


That's great to hear . :cool:

[ViperSRT]

If I successfully win the case, attorneys fees are 40% along with hard costs, so I'm screwed either way

I would include a request for attorney fees as part of a judgement given it is such a high loss. Not replacing the cooler and charging for the replacement should make any defense difficult. Good luck!

[SRT_BluByU]

could you file a claim with his insurance?

[Martin]

could you file a claim with his insurance?

I'm pretty sure, if he has insurance, he'll punt it over to them when this goes to court. No way the installer wants to hire his own lawyer - insurance will represent him, and if the insurance company is like 99% of other insurance companies, the insurance attorney will settle fairly just to get it off of his schedule.

[Lawineer]

I would include a request for attorney fees as part of a judgement given it is such a high loss. Not replacing the cooler and charging for the replacement should make any defense difficult. Good luck!

His lawyer is pretty sharp lol

[Mikey]

I heard attorneys moan when they wipe

[13COBRA]

I heard attorneys moan when they wipe

Uh...

Wut?

[Mikey]

I'm pretty sure, if he has insurance, he'll punt it over to them when this goes to court. No way the installer wants to hire his own lawyer - insurance will represent him, and if the insurance company is like 99% of other insurance companies, the insurance attorney will settle fairly just to get it off of his schedule.

His shop is tied to a dealership, supposedly they're two separate entities but should be interesting

[Martin]

His shop is tied to a dealership, supposedly they're two separate entities but should be interesting

If he does work on dealership customer's cars, he most certainly has good insurance. The dealership wouldn't let him touch customer's cars without it. I have a strong feeling that you'll recover everything, along with reasonable attorney fees, pretty quick.

On "reasonable attorney fees", that can get dicey when things are done on contingency. The judge might want to look at how many hours the attorney worked, and then charge a flat "reasonable and customary" hourly rate. If the attorney only worked five hours, but collected 40% of the judgement, the judge might only award five hours worth of work. I've been screwed by this in the past - I was awarded attorney fees, but the judge decides what is "reasonable" and that can be way less than you actually paid.

[Mikey]

If he does work on dealership customer's cars, he most certainly has good insurance. The dealership wouldn't let him touch customer's cars without it. I have a strong feeling that you'll recover everything, along with reasonable attorney fees, pretty quick.

On "reasonable attorney fees", that can get dicey when things are done on contingency. The judge might want to look at how many hours the attorney worked, and then charge a flat "reasonable and customary" hourly rate. If the attorney only worked five hours, but collected 40% of the judgement, the judge might only award five hours worth of work. I've been screwed by this in the past - I was awarded attorney fees, but the judge decides what is "reasonable" and that can be way less than you actually paid.

Looks like small claims limit was bumped up to 20k in Texas, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to go that route instead

[Lawineer]

Looks like small claims limit was bumped up to 20k in Texas, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to go that route instead
You should ask your lawyer ;)

[Mikey]

You should ask your lawyer ;)

Would it be worthwhile to just go through small claims and escalate from there? After your fees would there be enough to be made whole of $21,195

[Lawineer]

Would it be worthwhile to just go through small claims and escalate from there? After your fees would there be enough to be made whole of $21,195

You should ask your lawyer privately and not on a public message board the opposing party is assuredly reading (facepalm)

[Hawk]

I would think filing a claim against his liability insurance would get results. As a contractor I had a homeowner make a frivolous complaint against me on an area of the house I didn’t even work on and my insurance didn’t even try to fight it. They paid the claim and raised my rates!

[Mikey]

I would think filing a claim against his liability insurance would get results. As a contractor I had a homeowner make a frivolous complaint against me on an area of the house I didn’t even work on and my insurance didn’t even try to fight it. They paid the claim and raised my rates!

I have no idea how I would even do that



Edit:The dealership advertises mechanical services so the shop may not even be owned by Luke. I contacted the owner directly with the engine report as well as the text verifying the cooler was never replaced.

[13COBRA]

Online public forums, are NOT the place to receive legal advice. Call an attorney, presumably you already have one...that's what you're paying for. Get their advice.

[Mikey]

He hasn't been responding :p

[13COBRA]

He hasn't been responding :p

I would bet money that he would caution you about posting any further in an online forum until you guys bring suit.

[VENOM-TA]

Delete Mikey..

[Lawineer]

Delete Mikey..

Tampering with evidence is bad.

[StrokerAce]

I agree. I'd take it offline.

There has to be someone our community that would help this guy out, not just as a fellow car guy but a fellow Viper owner. I've needed representation from a fellow enthusiast who just so happens to be a lawyer. Took my case and knocked off 50% of the fees.

[VENOM-TA]

Tampering with evidence is bad.
Evidence? What evidence.. (quickly hides body)..

[Lawineer]

I agree. I'd take it offline.

There has to be someone our community that would help this guy out, not just as a fellow car guy but a fellow Viper owner. I've needed representation from a fellow enthusiast who just so happens to be a lawyer. Took my case and knocked off 50% of the fees.

Yeah. A lawyer in Dallas. With a Viper. In the viper community. Who understands cars and maybe even designed powertrain systems for a living before he want to law school.

[13COBRA]

Yeah. A lawyer in Dallas. With a Viper. In the viper community. Who understands cars and maybe even designed powertrain systems for a living before he want to law school.

LOL I giggled.

[ACRSNK]

Yeah. A lawyer in Dallas. With a Viper. In the viper community. Who understands cars and maybe even designed powertrain systems for a living before he want to law school.

Where could someone find such an attorney? That sounds nearly impossible.

[VENOM-TA]

Where could someone find such an attorney? That sounds nearly impossible.
Maybe call the Texas Hammer Jim Adler…
Or maybe a lurker in this very thread.. hmmmm

[ViperGeorge]

A lawyer like this can't possibly exist. A lawyer with those credentials and who owns a Viper, surely he must be a Unicorn sprinkled with pixie dust if he is real.

[efnfast]

Yeah. A lawyer in Dallas. With a Viper. In the viper community. Who understands cars and maybe even designed powertrain systems for a living before he want to law school.

post noodz?

[Mikey]

I'm forklift certified AND I almost have my associates degree :cool:


53055

[Lawineer]

A lawyer like this can't possibly exist. A lawyer with those credentials and who owns a Viper, surely he must be a Unicorn sprinkled with pixie dust if he is real.

He should definitely just give up hope and try to win a civil law suit himself pro-se. No sense throwing good time after bad looking for some sort of mythical viper driving “lawineer” that has represented car owners against tuner shops and vice versa.

[Sniper]

Do you take on a case which say someone paid for a $2300 Viper part from Co A and waited 7 months and never received the part and then told the company who makes the part (Co B) no longer make the part so Co B sent a check back to Co A and Co A never sent a refund to the purchaser?

[Aevus]

Just cancelled my Netflix, that thread is my new entertainment.

[Lawineer]

Do you take on a case which say someone paid for a $2300 Viper part from Co A and waited 7 months and never received the part and then told the company who makes the part (Co B) no longer make the part so Co B sent a check back to Co A and Co A never sent a refund to the purchaser?
It’s really too small to justify hiring an attorney. Even $20k isn’t really worth it for me. Unless I take it to trial and collect and recover punitive damages, attorney fees etc I stand to make $5k or less.

It would be my smallest case by an order of magnitude in terms of cases I've done "for money." I normally just do these kinds of cases because it's my friend's car or shop or something.

[13COBRA]

Do you take on a case which say someone paid for a $2300 Viper part from Co A and waited 7 months and never received the part and then told the company who makes the part (Co B) no longer make the part so Co B sent a check back to Co A and Co A never sent a refund to the purchaser?

Wouldn't be worth hiring an attorney over $2300, period. $20k is barely worth it. haha

[Mikey]

For future reference, USAA allows this as a claim and they would go after the shop thenselves

[Lawineer]

Wouldn't be worth hiring an attorney over $2300, period. $20k is barely worth it. haha

"Life is too short to litigate."

[13COBRA]

"Life is too short to litigate."

Correct...unless it's a large sum ($100k+)...or you're just proving a point. lol

[Sniper]

So the OP should just let this go?
Or are you saying you’ll spend more money than it’s worth compared to what you’ll get in return?

[13COBRA]

So the OP should just let this go?
Or are you saying you’ll spend more money than it’s worth compared to what you’ll get in return?

I wouldn't let it go. I'd turn it into insurance.

But, taking it to court, you'll still be in the red when it's all said and done...and have a lot more stress.

[Sniper]

Yea, that’s what I’m trying to do over the money I lost, just get over it. The stress isn’t worth it. Even though it’s a drop of what Mikey is dealing with, it’s still upsetting the guy took my money.

[13COBRA]

Yea, that’s what I’m trying to do over the money I lost, just get over it. The stress isn’t worth it. Even though it’s a drop of what Mikey is dealing with, it’s still upsetting the guy took my money.

Oh for sure.

[Martin]

It's super annoying when anything like this happens. I still think putting in a claim with the shop's insurance is the best thing to do. Another lesson learned from this is always put these purchases on a credit card that has a very good customer protection policy. As the old Amex commercial used to say "don't leave home without it." If someone won't take my Amex Platinum card, I go elsewhere.

Other things that I'd personally be doing right now are filing claims with the BBB, the Texas AG, TxDMV, and any other agency that I could dig up. We pay tax dollars to keep those government agencies running, so may as well use them as much as possible.

[Mikey]

It's super annoying when anything like this happens. I still think putting in a claim with the shop's insurance is the best thing to do. Another lesson learned from this is always put these purchases on a credit card that has a very good customer protection policy. As the old Amex commercial used to say "don't leave home without it." If someone won't take my Amex Platinum card, I go elsewhere.

Other things that I'd personally be doing right now are filing claims with the BBB, the Texas AG, TxDMV, and any other agency that I could dig up. We pay tax dollars to keep those government agencies running, so may as well use them as much as possible.


I filed all the complaints with those agencies, I didn't want to file a charge back and end up with a mechanics lien. I already have someone on retainer so the claims lady at USAA suggested I just let the attorney go after the insurance since I already spent the money

This just adds another reason why I'll be staying with USAA. If God forbid I end up in another situation like this again, I know USAA will let me submit a claim for it

[Sniper]

The only issue about credit cards is you only have 30 maybe 60 days to file a claim.

[Martin]

The only issue about credit cards is you only have 30 maybe 60 days to file a claim.

True - but often they'll still allow it if you show that you worked your ass off to try and resolve it yourself, and filing the claim was the last resort. That said, after 90 days, all bets are off. They like to either have an immediate claim for something easy like a "no delivery", or a very well documented claim for something as complex as this. That said, they usually don't cover motor vehicles - but they often will cover repairs that weren't done or weren't done right. Cards like Amex will immediately go after whatever insurance they have and they'll subrogate the claim to whoever had anything to do with it.

[Lawineer]

So the OP should just let this go?
Or are you saying you’ll spend more money than it’s worth compared to what you’ll get in return?

Perhaps one of these fabled viper driving engineer lawyers would offer to do it on contingency to help him out...

I dont really care. This isn't exactly a career case.

- - - Updated - - -


The only issue about credit cards is you only have 30 maybe 60 days to file a claim.

Bigger problem is likely that he didn't pay the installer much in the grand scheme of things.

[Sniper]

Bigger problem is likely that he didn't pay the installer much in the grand scheme of things.

Good point!

[Pappy]

I had the opposite experience with a Texas company I have a lot of respect for _ Finspeed. I ordered a custom set of track wheels with a non-standard back spacing that required a unique forging like that used on the old Corvette GTP cars. Unfortunately, a CNC data entry error (+ instead of a -) resulted in incorrect backspacing on the rears, and no new forgings were available. Daniel @ Finspeed immediately identified the problem and gave me the option of an immediate full refund or standing by while he attempted to source suitable forgings. I elected to wait, and he tried several suppliers and sources but could not find a forging that met his high standards. Eventually I decided to accept the refund on all 4 wheels, which came promptly and covered all expenses including shipping. Integrity and good business practices are refreshing to see. I run Finspeed track wheels on my ACR, and if I ever get a C8 Z06 I will order a set for that car from them.

[Martin]

Perhaps one of these fabled viper driving engineer lawyers would offer to do it on contingency to help him out...

I dont really care. This isn't exactly a career case.

- - - Updated - - -



Bigger problem is likely that he didn't pay the installer much in the grand scheme of things.

If it were me, I'd be on the phone with you in a heartbeat. There's nothing like an attorney who has real-world experience in the underlying problem, and also has a passion for the case. That's worth a lot.

As one of my usual side notes - I also started out in the powertrain business (Ford and Volkswagen) while doing my grad work, then at NASA doing turbine work and control systems. I got sick of government work, so I applied to a JD/MBA program and got in. I really wanted to do it - but the price was just too high (we're talking Stanford tuition and room/board). I somewhat regret that to this day because my wife says I would have been a great litigator.

But, if I ever ran into a problem that required actual engineering expertise, you're the kind of attorney I would be seeking.

So, Mikey has a lot of information, and I'm sure he'll do what he needs to do to make himself whole. I would be guns-blazing, but that's not for everyone. Probably not even for me anymore now that I have more gray hair than non-gray hair.

[Lawineer]

If it were me, I'd be on the phone with you in a heartbeat. There's nothing like an attorney who has real-world experience in the underlying problem, and also has a passion for the case. That's worth a lot.

As one of my usual side notes - I also started out in the powertrain business (Ford and Volkswagen) while doing my grad work, then at NASA doing turbine work and control systems. I got sick of government work, so I applied to a JD/MBA program and got in. I really wanted to do it - but the price was just too high (we're talking Stanford tuition and room/board). I somewhat regret that to this day because my wife says I would have been a great litigator.

But, if I ever ran into a problem that required actual engineering expertise, you're the kind of attorney I would be seeking.

So, Mikey has a lot of information, and I'm sure he'll do what he needs to do to make himself whole. I would be guns-blazing, but that's not for everyone. Probably not even for me anymore now that I have more gray hair than non-gray hair.
Funny, I was mech E and worked in auto and aerospace, too. But I did the inverse. I applied for a fellowship to get my masters, was "unofficially" told I got it, then funding for the project got cut so I applied to law schools (lol at paying the same price for engineer and law, especially given engineering is intellectual hell and law is a joke in comparison). My SECOND day of law school, that professor called me excitedly to "officially" offer me the fellowship under a different grant he just got. Two days earlier and I'd like be an engineer with a doctorate (assuming I made it) as that was my goal.

Also, funny enough, in comparison I did some motorsports, some not, some powertrain, some not). I quickly realized motorsports was absolutely brutal, cutthroat and had zero job security, despite having some of the best engineers in the entire auto sector (and country) and got sick of it. I also moved to turbines (military/fighters). So similar to you but backwards.

BTW: No one is "good at arguing." Those are just opinions of moms who blindly love their sons and their sons are assholes, not good at arguing. Mothers love just allows for mental flexibility to see every flaw as a strength. I know a lot of very charismatic lawyers, and some who are very well regarded. Almost across the board, their track records do not support their reputations.

Arguing effectively is making good points, which is being logic/intelligence. I have the least dramatic and driest closing arguments you'll ever see. I just make my points, repeatedly and clearly, and I dont think I've lost a jury trial in 8 years (and I've hard plenty that the other side saw as slam dunks)

I was fortunate enough to try cases with some really bad ass lawyers. I quickly noticed none of them are particularly charismatic or do any of the Hollywood bullshit "draw the attention of the room." Guys who clean house, up and down. They are sharp AF, keep a cool and remain objective in the heat of it all. Of course, there is more to it, but that's almost all of it. Trial (and litigation) is chess, not smooth talking. All but one of the ones that come to mind would probably bore the hell out of you at a cocktail party. You'd think they were some sort of boring ass engineers ;)

I always say that juries may not be bright, but they are intuitive. Being charming is great, but if your arguments don't make sense, these sense you as slimy.

[TIME]

Just got off the phone with Kevin, the entire block is cracked in half. He said it looks like they started the motor with no oil in it before hand, everything is covered in debris.

This is a tough one. It can make sense that the engine was shipped without oil and that the installer was to add the oil after installing the engine. The installer could be liable if he did not add oil, let alone simply checking oil level before starting the beast. Who wouldn't check oil level before starting a fresh engine?! Was the engine equipped with an "add oil" tag? Who knows, tough one.

[Mikey]

@Dan Cragin

We are in VERY different tax brackets, that shipping company quoted 6k for a one way HAHAHHA

[Lawineer]

This is a tough one. It can make sense that the engine was shipped without oil and that the installer was to add the oil after installing the engine. The installer could be liable if he did not add oil, let alone simply checking oil level before starting the beast. Who wouldn't check oil level before starting a fresh engine?! Was the engine equipped with an "add oil" tag? Who knows, tough one.

Lol what? Who would think to add oil to a engine that just showed up on a pallet? Literally, everyone.

Who the hell thinks engines are shipped with a pan of fresh oil?

[V10LEE]

@Dan Cragin

We are in VERY different tax brackets, that shipping company quoted 6k for a one way HAHAHHA

Call Reliable . When I bought my Ferrari 599 in Houston TX had them deliver it to me in Fernely Nevada for $2,200 this was last year.

[TIME]

Lol what? Who would think to add oil to a engine that just showed up on a pallet? Literally, everyone.
Who the hell thinks engines are shipped with a pan of fresh oil?

Except this installer - that also charges for a new oil cooler and hoses and then later claims that the system was "cleaned". Not good.
I feel sorry for all your troubles, Mikey!

[Mikey]

Except this installer - that also charges for a new oil cooler and hoses and then later claims that the system was "cleaned". Not good.
I feel sorry for all your troubles, Mikey!

Thanks for all the support everyone, I feel a bit better knowing I have the option of filing a claim if this case doesn't settle or work out

I have this naive thought that no one intentionally tries to screw you over and get over on you, but after gathering even more evidence, he shouldn't be allowed to touch another vehicle again

[AAA96]

Good luck with this moving forward. Just got caught up with the thread. At least you have Lawineer to help out. I would use all the resources I could in this situation. I would offer to help, but I’m just a dentist. Not much I can do here hahahaha.

[ViperSRT]

Who the hell thinks engines are shipped with a pan of fresh oil?

Production engines are, unless shipped overseas.

[Mikey]

I'm confident with the case. I contacted the shop who supposedly did the "ultrasonic cleaning" and they said there is no way to clean an oil cooler and that it should be thrown away :)

[Sniper]

Well, this makes me nervous now. I had an engine replacement from abnormal lifter wear and rod bearing wear and I don’t see anything about replacing oil cooler and lines.

[Mikey]

Well, this makes me nervous now. I had an engine replacement from abnormal lifter wear and rod bearing wear and I don’t see anything about replacing oil cooler lines.

I'd imagine if you haven't had issues this long, you should be alright
Then again, I'm also an uneducated dropout

[ViperGeorge]

What sucks is that the oil cooler is currently unavailable from Mopar.

[GTS Dean]

The Viper's oil cooler was obviously carefully engineered to match oil and water pressure/flow rates and heat rejection curves for optimum performance. However, this is not the only oil/water heat exchanger used on engines by a long shot. In fact, they are extremely common. Similar designs are used on Porsche Cayenne turbos, Cummins diesels and many different Class 4-7 trucks to name but a few. There have to be plenty other close matches out there to consider.

I don't know who was the OE supplier, but Mahle and Modine some of the top ones to the world market. https://www.mahle.com/en/products-and-services/passenger-cars/oil-management/ https://www.modine.com/markets/automotive/#LiquidCooled You have a size envelope to fit inside of and you have so many Btu's/hour to control at a given range of flow rates. They have products x, y and z from the catalog that could work and all you need is a mounting plate and liquid connector adapters.

[ViperGeorge]

The Viper's oil cooler was obviously carefully engineered to match oil and water pressure/flow rates and heat rejection curves for optimum performance. However, this is not the only oil/water heat exchanger used on engines by a long shot. In fact, they are extremely common. Similar designs are used on Porsche Cayenne turbos, Cummins diesels and many different Class 4-7 trucks to name but a few. There have to be plenty other close matches out there to consider.

I just checked and there are supposedly 20 in process at Mopar's national warehouse. Supposedly a few weeks out. We shall see, wouldn't be the first time Mopar's system has mislead us about when parts will become available. Windshields were supposed to be available in November and they still are not.

[Mikey]

I opted for an aftermarket option, I think several will work with our cars

[Martin]

Off topic, but I'm still not sure why they did the water to oil cooling systems. The air to oil worked fine, and they were less complex. That said, I'm sure they had a good reason. In any event, if someone wants to do some plumbing, the water-to-oil cooler can be extended to an air to oil cooler with little problem. I've done a bunch of oil cooler add-ons since the late 70's, and as long as you put a 180 degree bypass in the line, they work great. It takes a lot of the engineering work out of it - if the oil is getting too hot, just send it to the extra cooler.

But, I digress.... Again....

[Lawineer]

Water to oil is much more efficient and it also has the bonus of helping heat up engine oil when it is cold. Water will get hot way faster than oil.

[ViperGeorge]

viperpartsdepot.com may have the OEM oil cooler in stock. They are the only ones that show it on their website. No one else seems to have it. I would also try JonB at Parts Rack but his website viperpartsrackamerica.com shows it as out of stock.

[Mikey]

I'm needing a "reduction in value" letter, if someone can help me with that

[Lawineer]

I'm needing a "reduction in value" letter, if someone can help me with that

Man, if only there was SOME lawyer out there who has done this numerous times that could help you. Unfortunately, it seems you have no choice but to ask an internet forum completely void of Texas attorneys for advice.

Tell whatever dumbass lawyer you have it's called called "diminished value" in Texas, you need an appraiser or expert of some sort to write it- not just anyone. There are literally companies that do this. And JFC, no you dont. Your damages are the cost of repair and loss of use (plus collateral collectable damages like attorney fees, treble damages under DTPA, punitive, etc). Diminished value is when the market price of your car is lowered by the damages, after the repairs. Think of the diminished value after a car wreck due to car fax. If you get a new engine, your car isn't worth any less. It was already going to be a rebuilt, unoriginal engine.

You penny pinched, got punched in the dick and now you're hell bent on making the same mistake again, aren't you.



This is gonna be fun to watch.

[Mikey]

Man, if only there was SOME lawyer out there who has done this numerous times that could help you. Unfortunately, it seems you have no choice but to ask an internet forum completely void of Texas attorneys for advice.

Tell whatever dumbass lawyer you have it's called called "diminished value" in Texas, you need an appraiser or expert of some sort to write it- not just anyone. There are literally companies that do this. And JFC, no you dont. Your damages are the cost of repair and loss of use (plus collateral collectable damages like attorney fees, treble damages under DTPA, punitive, etc). Diminished value is when the market price of your car is lowered by the damages, after the repairs. Think of the diminished value after a car wreck due to car fax. If you get a new engine, your car isn't worth any less. It was already going to be a rebuilt, unoriginal engine.

You penny pinched, got punched in the dick and now you're hell bent on making the same mistake again, aren't you.



This is gonna be fun to watch.

Exhibit A of why I opted for a different attorney

[StrokerAce]

Wow.

[bluesrt]

pissing in the wind, a lawyer will take all your money and then pump your brain,we actually won (with whatever bullshit statement that comes to mind) forget about it and take the ass beating in the wallet and move on,your not getting any money from nobody,dirtbags allways win on these deals

[13COBRA]

Hey Mikey,

PM Lawineer.

LOL

[Voice of Reason]

Exhibit A of why I opted for a different attorney

I think he’s been pretty nice waiting this long to say what we’re all thinking. You are handling this all terribly, including airing it all on a public forum.

[13COBRA]

Maybe his attorney was advising him on diminished value because of all the negative things he's been saying about the car on a public forum?

[ViperTony]

Only one person comes to mind for Viper diminished value situations...maybe give a viper parts vendor in WA a call for advice on that topic. If you're a customer...he may give you some advice on value based upon years of helping his customers with value and insurance claims/losses. May be able to help track down hard to find parts. Make sure you call on a Monday.

[quickster2]

"Make sure you call on a Monday".

LOL. I always thought mid-week was best :). Actually, never had an issue. Passionate fellow with good advice and a big heart.

[Lawineer]

Maybe his attorney was advising him on diminished value because of all the negative things he's been saying about the car on a public forum?

lol, yeah, I mean, I doubt anyone would know it had to be rebuilt twice outside of his own public forum posts. Would anyone even care? If I was buying a car with an aftermarket engine and they told me "first time it got messed up and we had to start from scratch with a new block, new rods, etc, etc, etc." would anyone really value the car less? To me its like the door getting keyed, repainted, the paint didn't match so it was sanded and done again. Who cares?

[Steve-Indy]

Shine&show folks, collectors, and investors care...while racers generally do not. I suspect that there are more of the former than the latter.

[ViperSRT]

Shine&show folks, collectors, and investors care...while racers generally do not. I suspect that there are more of the former than the latter.

Bet they don’t care how many times it was rebuilt, etc. Just a question of original versus not. Collectors and investors won’t touch a modern car that isn’t original, unless rarity or some other factors limits availability.

Love the JonB on Monday comments. Jon and I have talked on Mondays and I think it is because everyone avoids doing so.

[AAA96]

Exhibit A of why I opted for a different attorney

I don’t understand the OP anymore. Why would you turn down genuine help. Especially someone who knows the car as well.

[Martin]

If I ever have an engine grenade on me, I'm sending the whole car to Prefix for peace of mind. Just think about the value of that - this has probably been a really crappy and mentally exhausting exercise. I'd rather pay an extra $10k and know that it's being done right. Also, if it mattered to collectors, having a repair done at Prefix carries a lot of value - if they are knowledgeable, they'll know it's nothing to detract from the value.

[AAA96]

If I ever have an engine grenade on me, I'm sending the whole car to Prefix for peace of mind. Just think about the value of that - this has probably been a really crappy and mentally exhausting exercise. I'd rather pay an extra $10k and know that it's being done right. Also, if it mattered to collectors, having a repair done at Prefix carries a lot of value - if they are knowledgeable, they'll know it's nothing to detract from the value.

I 100% agree. On that note, if I ever have anything done to the engine (heads/cam/etc) I will be sending the whole car to them.

[J TNT]

If I ever have an engine grenade on me, I'm sending the whole car to Prefix for peace of mind. Just think about the value of that - this has probably been a really crappy and mentally exhausting exercise. I'd rather pay an extra $10k and know that it's being done right. Also, if it mattered to collectors, having a repair done at Prefix carries a lot of value - if they are knowledgeable, they'll know it's nothing to detract from the value.

Completely Agree and did !

[efnfast]

If I ever have an engine grenade on me, I'm sending the whole car to Prefix for peace of mind. Just think about the value of that - this has probably been a really crappy and mentally exhausting exercise. I'd rather pay an extra $10k and know that it's being done right. Also, if it mattered to collectors, having a repair done at Prefix carries a lot of value - if they are knowledgeable, they'll know it's nothing to detract from the value.

Didn't Prefix have a few of their 9Ls grenade from improper assembly ... I seem to recall reading something about that over the years?
(not that I'm implying they're a poor company, just that bad luck can happen anywhere)

[Steve-Indy]

I agree with you, Martin. The sad thing is that the Prefix suggestion was covered in post #18 of what has become a 592 post trail of tears. It's not like this is the only time similar things have happened in the automotive world.

[StrokerAce]

I know of a car with a 9L Prefix engine that went kaboom after only a few laps. I believe Prefix stepped up to the plate and upheld their end of the deal. The downtime sucked, I'm sure, but they stood behind their work. If I ever need a rebuild it's going to them. After seeing it first hand I have to say I was super impressed with how they handled it.

[efnfast]

Man, if only there was SOME lawyer out there who has done this numerous times that could help you. Unfortunately, it seems you have no choice but to ask an internet forum completely void of Texas attorneys for advice.

Tell whatever dumbass lawyer you have it's called called "diminished value" in Texas, you need an appraiser or expert of some sort to write it- not just anyone. There are literally companies that do this. And JFC, no you dont. Your damages are the cost of repair and loss of use (plus collateral collectable damages like attorney fees, treble damages under DTPA, punitive, etc). Diminished value is when the market price of your car is lowered by the damages, after the repairs. Think of the diminished value after a car wreck due to car fax. If you get a new engine, your car isn't worth any less. It was already going to be a rebuilt, unoriginal engine.

You penny pinched, got punched in the dick and now you're hell bent on making the same mistake again, aren't you.



This is gonna be fun to watch.

Don't forget to follow legal commentary along on CorvetteForum as well - he wants to beat the shit out of his lawyer (?first lawyer?)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/other-cars/4686138-fs-built-heads-and-cam-2015-dodge-viper-gt-5.html

[Mikey]

Don't forget to follow legal commentary along on CorvetteForum as well - he wants to beat the shit out of his lawyer (?first lawyer?)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/other-cars/4686138-fs-built-heads-and-cam-2015-dodge-viper-gt-5.html

That offer is available to everyone, maple Ave boxing gym on Wednesdays

I've been respectful to everyone on this board. I'm dealing with a car that has been nothing but trouble, and now dealing with a 2nd failure not long after receiving it. So yes, I'm very anxious about coming out of pocket 20k after spending 32k for a rebuild. I have very limited mechanical knowledge and ask a lot of questions, which is very annoying, that I understand.

The bombardment of disrespect however is unnecessary. Hence the open invitation to everyone that sees fit

[13COBRA]

That offer is available to everyone, maple Ave boxing gym on Wednesdays

I've been respectful to everyone on this board. I'm dealing with a car that has been nothing but trouble, and now dealing with a 2nd failure not long after receiving it. So yes, I'm very anxious about coming out of pocket 20k after spending 32k for a rebuild. I have very limited mechanical knowledge and ask a lot of questions, which is very annoying, that I understand.

The bombardment of disrespect however is unnecessary. Hence the open invitation to everyone that sees fit

Oh Jesus.

C'mon Mikey. You didn't just challenge us to an internet boxing match, did you?

[Mikey]

Oh Jesus.

C'mon Mikey. You didn't just challenge us to an internet boxing match, did you?

Not at all. I'm at that gym every Wednesday, where you're free to voice your thoughts

[13COBRA]

Not at all. I'm at that gym every Wednesday, where you're free to voice your thoughts

Right.

Pretty funny ole' Mikey.

[Lawineer]

Lmfao, bitching about me on the internet because of a 40% contingency on a case with $30k in actual damages that has a serious risk of little to no collection and requires almost everything to be drafted from scratch while you're publicizing everything. It's not like this some cookie cutter car accident where you just engage in "form litigation" and fill in a few blanks in a template. There's a damn good chance I do a lot of work and get a judgment against a guy that has half a pot to piss in.

There's about zero chance this case is worth my while at 40%, which is a pretty damn standard contingency fee for cookie cutter car accident cases, btw. I'm not the cheapest lawyer in town, nor do I have any desire to compete against someone charging 20% contingency on super speculative cases requiring subject matter expertise sending their clients on wild goose chases to get "loss of value letters." You certainly didn't have any questions about my competency and understanding when you were asking me question after question about the diagnosis.

Talking shit about how you didn't hire me because someone else will do it for half the price bothers me about as much as your boxing threats. I will literally make more flying/traveling to court for a client next month that I would in all likelihood. Finding some guy to do it cheaper is exactly what got you in this shit storm to begin with.

Now look, I hope this guy is some sort of phenomenal attorney who severely underprices himself and you make all your money back and then some, but believe me- I'm not going to lose a second of sleep for missing out on this case. I'll continue billing my clients who see the value in hiring me over the litany of attorneys who charge 1/2 my rate.

[Lawineer]

If I ever have an engine grenade on me, I'm sending the whole car to Prefix for peace of mind. Just think about the value of that - this has probably been a really crappy and mentally exhausting exercise. I'd rather pay an extra $10k and know that it's being done right. Also, if it mattered to collectors, having a repair done at Prefix carries a lot of value - if they are knowledgeable, they'll know it's nothing to detract from the value.

Same, except Nth. Nothing against this builder- I just think Nth runs an impressive operation. I've gotten to the age/point where I am willing to pay more to avoid headaches (although, I haven't gotten better at not creating them for myself with my hobbies and cranking up boost in my daily driver, lol).

[Mikey]

Lmfao, bitching about me on the internet because of a 40% contingency on a case with $30k in actual damages that has a serious risk of little to no collection and requires almost everything to be drafted from scratch while you're publicizing everything. It's not like this some cookie cutter car accident where you just engage in "form litigation" and fill in a few blanks in a template. There's a damn good chance I do a lot of work and get a judgment against a guy that has half a pot to piss in.

There's about zero chance this case is worth my while at 40%, which is a pretty damn standard contingency fee for cookie cutter car accident cases, btw. I'm not the cheapest lawyer in town, nor do I have any desire to compete against someone charging 20% contingency on super speculative cases requiring subject matter expertise sending their clients on wild goose chases to get "loss of value letters." You certainly didn't have any questions about my competency and understanding when you were asking me question after question about the diagnosis.

Talking shit about how you didn't hire me because someone else will do it for half the price bothers me about as much as your boxing threats. I will literally make more flying/traveling to court for a client next month that I would in all likelihood. Finding some guy to do it cheaper is exactly what got you in this shit storm to begin with.

Now look, I hope this guy is some sort of phenomenal attorney who severely underprices himself and you make all your money back and then some, but believe me- I'm not going to lose a second of sleep for missing out on this case. I'll continue billing my clients who see the value in hiring me over the litany of attorneys who charge 1/2 my rate.


Now that's not how you originally portrayed this case to me at all. I had agreed to your price and was patiently waiting for the form to sign, but then you began ignoring me. The only response I received from you after agreeing to your price and waiting for the form was a comment on this thread. I left this thread alone while you continued to post passive-
aggressive comments. There was/is no threat, seeing that we are local to each other, a conversation in person is much more conducive to a solution than passive-aggressive comments on an internet thread


I have no desire to continue going back and forth on this thread, you have my number

[Aevus]

viperpartsdepot.com may have the OEM oil cooler in stock. They are the only ones that show it on their website. No one else seems to have it. I would also try JonB at Parts Rack but his website viperpartsrackamerica.com shows it as out of stock.

I discussed with three local mechanics and they all said that an oil cooler is NOT automatically uncleanable / just good for garbage, but it must be done properly (don't know the details) I assume ultrasonic + a thorough flush.

[Aevus]

(sorry to disturb the legal discussion with my oil cooler comment)

[Fulltilt]

I believe the Prefix 9L issues were lifter related. If I recall correctly, the part failed not an issue with installation. I have heard Nth Moto won't look at a car unless they build the car from scratch. That sucks but I can't say I blame them.

[Mikey]

I don’t understand the OP anymore. Why would you turn down genuine help. Especially someone who knows the car as well.

I didn't, I was ignored after accepting his fees.

[Lawineer]

Now that's not how you originally portrayed this case to me at all. I had agreed to your price and was patiently waiting for the form to sign, but then you began ignoring me.

I didn't? I didn't portray it as a case with questionable collectability and tell you I cannot guarantee there you'd be able to collect any judgment? I didn't do that, verbatim? In writing? You didn't come back and ask more questions about the terms right after you asked me to send an agreement and then you never responded? On top of the dozen other technical questions you asked me about the failure?

I left this thread alone while you continued to post passive-aggressive comments.
Yeah, you just made awkward lawyer jokes here that were directed at me and shit talked me on another forum.


There was/is no threat, seeing that we are local to each other, a conversation in person is much more conducive to a solution than passive-aggressive comments on an internet thread
I agree. Let's meet in person. $500/hr.








Dude, good luck. Hope it all works out and you come back talking about how much money you saved with that other lawyer and how much of an opportunist I am. Then it will be win-win. I'll make much more working on other cases and you'd have saved a bunch using the other lawyer.

[Mikey]

I didn't? I didn't portray it as a case with questionable collectability and tell you I cannot guarantee there you'd be able to collect any judgment? I didn't do that, verbatim? In writing? You didn't come back and ask more questions about the terms right after you asked me to send an agreement and then you never responded? On top of the dozen other technical questions you asked me about the failure?

Yeah, you just made awkward lawyer jokes here that were directed at me and shit talked me on another forum.


I agree. Let's meet in person. $500/hr.








Dude, good luck. Hope it all works out and you come back talking about how much money you saved with that other lawyer and how much of an opportunist I am. Then it will be win-win. I'll make much more working on other cases and you'd have saved a bunch using the other lawyer.

Me: 12:18pm "yeah, yeah send it over"
You: 12:27pm "contingency?"
Me" 12:34pm "yeah"
NOTHING


Then you began making comments on this thread

l I asked you at 6:52 pm if you thought you would be able to recoup enough after your fees.

You responded the next day at noon.


If my HILARIOUS joke offended you, notifying me that you would no longer take me as a client would be acceptable. If not, notifying me that you weren't fond of my comment would have netted a sincere apology.


And no, your original email did not entail questionable collectability, quite the opposite, actually

[Lawineer]

Listen dude- stop the bullshit.


I didn't, I was ignored after accepting his fees.
You told me to send over the contingency agreement.
Then, the same day, not too long later, you second guessed yourself and inquired more about the agreement. You were asking me if I would be able to obtain a specific recovery after contingency fees, ie guarantee a certain outcome, which is explicitly prohibited by the State Bar. I told you that I cannot guarantee and outcome, and that we could win, lose, draw or win and not recover anything at all. You were contemplating filing in small claims and I told you that if you think you can handle it on your own in small claims and save yourself legal fees, feel free to file in small claims on your own.

You never responded after that.

Those are the damn facts, and it's clear as day in writing.

I've done ABSOLUTELY nothing but help you, at absolutely no cost, whether it was "engine questions" or legal questions since the beginning of this shit show. You have a lot of audacity giving me shit for anything, especially untrue bullshit. If you don't like my rates, simply decline and move on. But don't go off making up stories about how you were ignored. The last text between us was sent by me.

[Mikey]

Listen dude- stop the bullshit.


You told me to send over the contingency agreement.
Then, the same day, not too long later, you second guessed yourself and inquired more about the agreement. You were asking me if I would be able to obtain a specific recovery after contingency fees, ie guarantee a certain outcome, which is explicitly prohibited by the State Bar. I told you that I cannot guarantee and outcome, and that we could win, lose, draw or win and not recover anything at all. You were contemplating filing in small claims and I told you that if you think you can handle it on your own in small claims and save yourself legal fees, feel free to file in small claims on your own.

You never responded after that.

Those are the damn facts, and it's clear as day in writing.

I've done ABSOLUTELY nothing but help you, at absolutely no cost, whether it was "engine questions" or legal questions since the beginning of this shit show. You have a lot of audacity giving me shit for anything, especially untrue bullshit. If you don't like my rates, simply decline and move on. But don't go off making up stories about how you were ignored. The last text between us was sent by me.

53066

Not too long after? I had asked AFTER you started posting on this thread AFTER ignoring me all day.

53067

[Lawineer]

Me: 12:18pm "yeah, yeah send it over"
You: 12:27pm "contingency?"
Me" 12:34pm "yeah"
NOTHING


Then you began making comments on this thread

l I asked you at 6:52 pm if you thought you would be able to recoup enough after your fees.

You responded the next day at noon.


If my HILARIOUS joke offended you, notifying me that you would know longer take me as a client would be acceptable. If not, notifying me that you weren't fond of my comment would have netted a sincere apology.


And no, your original email did not entail questionable collectability, quite the opposite, actually

What planet do you live on where I am obliged to respond to work texts immediately at 7pm. You sent me a work correspondence at dinner time and I responded the very next day. I have shit to do too, and my life doesn't revolve around your engine fiasco.

You asked me a zillion questions and I helped you out for weeks in this shit show. When lawyers were giving you their time and expertise for free, you seemed to like them plenty. When you hear their rates, you hop in the internet and start insulting them. I wasn't offended by your joke (I barely get it). My point is, you're completely full of shit in your version of events.




53066

Not too long after? I had asked AFTER you started posting on this thread AFTER ignoring me all day.
Cool. Very convenient how you left off my response after that. You know, the one that tells you to decide between hiring me or going on your own in small claims to avoid attorney's fees. The one, thank fucking God, you didn't respond to.

[Mikey]

What planet do you live on where I am obliged to respond to work texts immediately at 7pm. You sent me a work correspondence at dinner time and I responded the very next day. I have shit to do too, and my life doesn't revolve around your engine fiasco.

You asked me a zillion questions and I helped you out for weeks in this shit show. When lawyers were giving you their time and expertise for free, you seemed to like them plenty. When you hear their rates, you hop in the internet and start insulting them. I wasn't offended by your joke (I barely get it). My point is, you're completely full of shit in your version of events.




Cool. Very convenient how you left off my response after that. You know, the one that tells you to decide between hiring me or going on your own in small claims to avoid attorney's fees. The one you, thank fucking God, didn't respond to.

Looks like you didn't see the revised post

That text was sent immediately after you commented "ask your attorney".

[Lawineer]

Yeah, crazy. You sent me a text at 7pm and I responded the next morning.
I'm the asshole for not responding immediately to a 7pm work text. You didn't respond at all, lol! All you did was go make lawyer jokes at me.



Good luck in your case and God bless your lawyer. I'm going to dinner with stable clients.

[Mikey]

Yeah, crazy. You sent me a text at 7pm and I responded the next morning.
I'm the asshole for not responding immediately to a 7pm work text. You didn't respond at all, lol! All you did was go make lawyer jokes at me.



Good luck in your case and God bless your lawyer. I'm going to dinner with stable clients.

You were literally still making passive aggressive posts after I had text you. After that whole ordeal, yes I opted to go with attorney who had the same hourly rate but half the initial retainer.

Edit: disclosing your rate AFTER collecting evidence from me for several days also didn't sit well

Calling me crazy after I had disclosed to you my military related mental impairment is also not very professional

[Lawineer]

Edit: disclosing your rate AFTER collecting evidence from me for several days also didn't sit well


You mean the weeks I was helping you make sense of it to try to resolve your issue without having to pay an attorney? The countless calls/text messages and emails and how I reviewed all your invoices and contracts terms? Your trying to shit on me for not disclosing my hourly rates while I was helping you for free!?

You make it sound like I did all this work and then surprised you with my (very typical) rates and expected to be paid for all the time I spent. I didn't ask for a dime and you didn't so much as offer to buy me a beer you ungrateful ass.

I told you my rates after it became clear you needed a lawyer to get actively involved. If you didn't like them or wanted to go with a cheaper guy, the grown up thing to do is say "thanks for the help, I'm going with this guy who is cheaper."



JFC, I hope you get every single thing you deserve.

[ACRSNK]

This just got very strange.

[Snakebit10]

As The Viper Turns....This has turned into a soap opera. Didn't see this coming....

[13COBRA]

Holy shit, grab the popcorn.

We have an unstable military vet (self claimed) challenging people to boxing matches, continuously insulting an attorney, and being an overall tool bag.

You should sell the Viper and go back to a C6 Vette equipped with New Balance holders, a gold chain compartment and a years supply of jolts. Thank us later

[AAA96]

53068

[Docmartin]

Same, except Nth. Nothing against this builder- I just think Nth runs an impressive operation. I've gotten to the age/point where I am willing to pay more to avoid headaches (although, I haven't gotten better at not creating them for myself with my hobbies and cranking up boost in my daily driver, lol).

I don't think you can go wrong with Prefix, Nth, & Calvo. Haven't worked directly with Calvo but his team have always been responsive and helpful when I've called/emailed with little questions. They sent me a flywheel cover for free (except for shipping) when I first got the car. When I lost my transmission the man himself gave me a call to talk about the rebuild. I think Cordes deserve an honorable mention as well; love Toad's build. Then there are some OG's floating around like Donato and Sessions that do some work, too. For having such a limited car we have some great choices and it's well worth the extra cost for the piece of mind and quality.

Mikey - Man I'm rooting for you. It's a stressful situation to be in and about as bad as it gets. I had a problematic C6 turbo build back in the day and it caused me a ton of stress. From my perspective, I think the community just want to help and see you made whole again after seeing this situation unfold step by step. It's nice that you've provided updates along the way and some people can definitely learn lessons from your experience; however, it's not worth airing out your grievances with others in this thread. The additional stress isn't worth it nor is the damaging relationships you've built along the way. I know the Viper experience isn't what you were expecting it to be. Hopefully you can get this sorted out soon and then put this all behind you. Best of luck with your case.

[Voice of Reason]

Lawineer you’ve dodged a bullet on this one. I handle the books for my wife’s family law firm and it’s obvious he’s the worst kind of client.

One of my favorite comments above is he went with an attorney with the same rate but lower retainer. Lol, as if that retainer quote is somehow the max it will cost when this continues to go sideways.

[SK GT]

Good for you on standing your ground Lawineer. His post on CF is baffling.

[Lawineer]

Lawineer you’ve dodged a bullet on this one. I handle the books for my wife’s family law firm and it’s obvious he’s the worst kind of client.

One of my favorite comments above is he went with an attorney with the same rate but lower retainer. Lol, as if that retainer quote is somehow the max it will cost when this continues to go sideways.

Yeah, no kidding. Usually, a low retainer is just a low price to get you in the door. Prepay for 10 hours or 20 hours. If it takes more time, you pay more. If you it takes less time, you get it back. Rate and end cost is the same. Same mpg, same distance, smaller gas tank so it "costs less to fill up." Baffling he complains about my rate as being opportunistic and then hires someone for the same rate (who I'm assuming didn't help him for free for a while and doesn't have an engineering degree and doesn't know anything about engines and doesn't represent tuner shops).

I set mine at a reasonable amount to give clients a real idea of what they're in for. Otherwise, you keep asking to replenish and the clients get real annoyed.

I'm glad I have nothing to do with it anymore, but I'm pretty shocked anyone would pay hourly for a case like this. 40% of a $20k recovery (if any at all) is $8k. 16 hours of work. Unless you get really lucky and it settles quickly, it's hard to see how a client comes out ahead on contingency for something that isn't cookie-cutter and boiler plate. Shit, just the settlement calls, agreements, etc take an hour or two, and that's quick. Next thing you know, you're very quickly thousands deep into a case with $20k in actual damages and that's before we even get collecting.

But hey, everyone has their own risk tolerance and I guess you never really know.

[quickster2]

Shame how this thread developed. Many folks were trying to help and offered sincere suggestions. Regardless, hope the OP can get this sorted out without anymore undue damage. Lesson reaffirmed for me that I already passed on to my kids. One stop shopping (responsibility) is always the best even if it is not necessarily the easiest or least costly initially. Any high performance engine needs expertise to understand any nuances and to properly build & certify.

[ACRSNK]

I still hope Mikey can get this sorted. None of us would want to be in his shoes on this and this attorney situation is just plain bizarre. It just doesn't seem right on either end, but I still hope Mikey gets this figured out so he can move on and enjoy his car.

This place is starting to remind me of the Alley.

[Hawk]

This is getting interesting now!

53073

[No hemi]

Sooo. after this went the "alley" way, anyone knows if the OP got the car fixed?

[VENOM-TA]

Sooo. after this went the "alley" way, anyone knows if the OP got the car fixed?
As of 4/6 he was still waiting to get the car shipped to the Kevin guy..