viper t a 1 0 vs viper gtc t a 1 0 group

[SRT_BluByU]

can someone explain to me what the difference is between the viper t/a 1.0 and the viper gtc t/a 1.0 group besides the fender stickers? seems like they both have the same wheels, tires, brakes, suspension, aero, interior, orange springs, orange sticthing, sticker hood emblem?


seems like the major difference is the gtc t/a 1.0 group comes in whatever color ya want and the t/a only comes in orange, black and white? do i have that correct?

[Rrobert22]

My understanding is that the T/A car was a special edition that only came in three colors and only for one year. The Ta group allows you to put all the features on a gtc in any color and is not technically limited or a true t/a.

[serpent]

GTC = Gimme That Cash

LOL, sorry had to do it.

[texasram]

GTC = Gimme That Cash

LOL, sorry had to do it.

Gotta Take Cut.... on resale value.JK lol but the TA non gtc should be more pricey than a 1 of 1

[texasram]

can someone explain to me what the difference is between the viper t/a 1.0 and the viper gtc t/a 1.0 group besides the fender stickers? seems like they both have the same wheels, tires, brakes, suspension, aero, interior, orange springs, orange sticthing, sticker hood emblem?


seems like the major difference is the gtc t/a 1.0 group comes in whatever color ya want and the t/a only comes in prange, black and white? do i have tjat correct?
If youre able to access the customizer on drivesrt.com, it will say the difference in detail on trims

[SRT_BluByU]

Gotta Take Cut.... on resale value.JK lol but the TA non gtc should be more pricey than a 1 of 1

why? cant imagine more limited than 1 of 1?

- - - Updated - - -


If youre able to access the customizer on drivesrt.com, it will say the difference in detail on trims

i looked and it didnt look like anything was different except the ability to choose more paint options and the fender sticker is a badge?

[Voice of Reason]

This, along with how to properly check your oil level, are probably the two most discussed topics in this forum. Use the search feature.

[SRT_BluByU]

so a sticker and the ability to delete the carbon fiber x-brace and carbon fiber tail surround and 6 port hood if you so choose. got it. thanks!

[PkB2014]

The dash will be numbered instead of custom as well. But there are some GTC (GT Custom, in case people forgot what it really means) that had the TA package instead of the TA Group and are "real" numbered TA editions as well. Again it's talked about a lot so you can find more info.

[Vipes]

I looked at both when I was Viper hunting and in the end I went with the TA. The TA was the exact car that took back the record at the Laguna Seca track. The option group attracted some buyers that wanted most of the TA parts but could add some of the heavier touring options usually found on the GTS. The option group I looked at didn't have the TA interior, decals, carbon x-brace, carbon applique, or 6 vent hood. There were TA package cars made after 2014 but they were extremely rare, just a handful were made because most dealers didn't even know you could order them and the dealer had to have a paid order first. I tried to order a black 2017 TA 1.0 new but missed the ordering deadline but I was lucky enough to hunt down and buy 1 of the 2 ever made last year.

[pete.best]

My understanding:

2014 TAs....orange black or white. That’s it. They would all be considered “package” option cars.

After 2014 the TA “package” and “group” options were made available. Additionally there were 1.0 / 2.0 & 1 / 2 variations, respectively.

Lots of cars with the “group” option out there, not many “package” cars. (Outside of the 2014 cars)

I have a 2016 TA 1.0, in y’orange and believe there was only 2 of them made. And only 10 or so TOTAL package cars from 2015-2017. The following information is from another thread, and should help show exactly what came with each option type.

Pete



TA2 (2.0) Package $17,000 USD
-Sabelt Black Performance Cloth Seats with either Orange or Y'Orange Accent Stitching
-TA Serialized IP Badge & Decals
-SRT Hood
-5 Mode Electronic Stability Control
-Lower Dive Planes
-TA Front Splitter
-Carbon Fiber Rear Applique
-Carbon Fiber Structural X-Brace
-TA Aero Wing Assembly Kit
-Pirelli P Zero Corsa High Performance Tires
-Sidewinder II Matte Wheels (or substitute for any wheels)
-Black Brembo Calipers with Orange writing (no substitutions)
-Time Attack Suspension
-Track Car Cover

TA1 (1.0) Package $16,000 USD
-Sabelt Black Performance Cloth Seats with either Orange or Y'Orange Accent Stitching
-TA Serialized IP Badge & Decals
-SRT Hood
-5 Mode Electronic Stability Control
-Carbon Fiber Front Splitter
-Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler
-Carbon Fiber Rear Applique
-Carbon Fiber Structural X-Brace
-Pirelli P Zero Corsa High Performance Tires
-Sidewinder Matte Black Wheels (or substitute any wheels)
-Black Brembo Calipers with Orange writing (no substitutions)
-Time Attack Suspension
-Car Cover

Time Attack 2 Group $8,700 USD
-Lower Dive Planes
-TA Front Splitter
-TA Aero Wing Assembly Kit
-Time Attack Suspension
-Pirelli P Zero Corsa High Performance Tires
-Sidewinder Matte Black Wheels (or substitute any wheels)
-Black Brembo Calipers with Orange writing (no substitutions)
-Standard Interior (Sabelt Nappa Leather/Alcantara Suede Seats) or choose an Interior Package Upgrade
-Choose your Color/Stripe

Time Attack 1 Group $7,700 USD
-Carbon Fiber Front Splitter
-Carbon Fiber Rear Spoiler
-Time Attack Suspension
-Pirelli P Zero Corsa High Performance Tires
-Sidewinder Matte Black Wheels (or substitute any wheels)
-Black Brembo Calipers with Orange writing (no substitutions)
-Standard Interior (Sabelt Nappa Leather/Alcantara Suede Seats) or choose an Interior Package Upgrade
-Choose your Color/Stripe


http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u437/petebest1/Mobile%20Uploads/0C8A9D59-F9D3-47B9-B6D5-DE6A2CFBC794_zpslhcqk0uv.jpg (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/petebest1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/0C8A9D59-F9D3-47B9-B6D5-DE6A2CFBC794_zpslhcqk0uv.jpg.html)

[Bruce H.]

Thanks for posting that comprehensive list Pete! I would note that it does not include the improved performance component that was the deciding factor for me...the TA's larger brake rotors that improved fade resistance on track.

The original 2014 "Package" TA was developed to improve track performance beyond that of the SRT and GTS models. They did that by combining the SRT's 6 vent hood and manual nylon seats with the GTS's dual mode dampers (with TA specific damper rates) and 5 mode stability control, the optional Sidewinder II wheels with Corsa tires used on the SRT "Track Pack" cars, "Advanced Aero" splitter and spoiler, stiffening of suspension spring and sway bar rates, and weight reduction from greater use of carbon fiber and other measures. This performance spec was only available by ordering the SRT with "TA Package", and doing so prevented you from ordering any other options, which for the most part would have reduced performance by substituting performance related parts like tires or adding weight (wheels, leather/electric seats, more speakers, ect). It's certainly questionable how much the flush TA decal improved performance over the raised metal SRT badge, or the lighter weight carpeting, CF brace, rear fascia and reduced use of noise insulation, but victory was achieved from a pretty long list of little details. All 2014 TA's and subsequent TA 1.0 package cars were identically equipped and performing to the car that Randy set the production car record in. It's a shame the TA 2.0 package cars were never tested, but their performance was surely very similar, probably improved on some tracks that would have taken greater advantage of the improved aero, perhaps a little less so where lower Cd was more ideal.

Motor Trend tried to take credit for pushing SRT to build it in order to regain the Laguna Seca record that the Gen IV ACR lost to the '12 Corvette ZR1 when the new '13 SRT and GTS failed to do so. Ralph claimed the TA was already being developed and SRT just accelerated the TA program and sped release to take back the record. Nail biting stuff back in Feb 2013 when Randy Pobst pulled off the win.

The "TA Group" option simply allowed people to combine most of the TA Package performance parts on other models with other optional equipment. Something for everyone!

[Bill Pemberton]

Sorry , but again we have some misinformation and I can personally verify the TA idea was in the hopper long before the Motor Trend issue. One of these days , in the future, when I am retired, I might just drop the whole story, but for now it is good we have folks promoting the heck out of the Viper , building value. I could care less if the cause is fact or perception, since perception is reality in the car business , but.......

The TA Option Group was available in 2014, as all 10 of the Anodized Carbon TAs ( as advertised by Dodge/SRT ) had this and folks almost uniformly call them TAs. But, more importantly the TA Group was out there, though very few recognized it , hence there are a very, very small group of cars that are in colors other than White, Black, Orange, or Anodized , that have the Option Group done in 2014 --- I know of a SSG and Black one for instance.

Since a lot of the talk is about personal preference and biases , which is fine, the one thing that spoke volumes was the customer. When given the choice ( which was available from 15-17 ) you, the consumer, said, " I want a TA1 or TA2 Option group because I don't want the colors Dodge offered. " That frankly is something that seldom is discussed, since most would not be privy to that information since they were not on the ordering end as we were. We started doing 1 of 1s the minute the program began in 2015 and there are a reasonable number of cars built with these 2 Option Groups, especially in 16 and 17 ( remember 15 was a late start on the GTC, i.e. 1 of 1 program ) - and we did a ton of personally designed Snakes.

The exciting thing to me is that folks are singing the praises and values of the car, unlike so many negative nellies we had to listen to for years. So whether you think a TA is worth more because it is numbered, or you feel a unique build is better , that is a much more constructive conversation than some in the past. So keep up the dialogue , but know that so many of the cool changes , models , etc. done in the Gen V, had roots with folks who for years pushed to get more variety done within the model. Some of those folks at Dodge will probably never get the credit they deserve , but there was a lot of passion and camaraderie among a small group to get dreams many of us ( owners ) proposed. Time to go back now and realize how much was accomplished on a shoestring budget by some committed folks at SRT/Dodge.

[pete.best]

I have been curious about the anodized carbon cars. That explains it. This Is how it usually works- lots of conjecture mixed with some facts, and bill fills in the gaps. 👍

[PkB2014]

Thanks for posting that comprehensive list Pete! I would note that it does not include the improved performance component that was the deciding factor for me...the TA's larger brake rotors that improved fade resistance on track.

The original 2014 "Package" TA was developed to improve track performance beyond that of the SRT and GTS models. They did that by combining the SRT's 6 vent hood and manual nylon seats with the GTS's dual mode dampers (with TA specific damper rates) and 5 mode stability control, the optional Sidewinder II wheels with Corsa tires used on the SRT "Track Pack" cars, "Advanced Aero" splitter and spoiler, stiffening of suspension spring and sway bar rates, and weight reduction from greater use of carbon fiber and other measures. This performance spec was only available by ordering the SRT with "TA Package", and doing so prevented you from ordering any other options, which for the most part would have reduced performance by substituting performance related parts like tires or adding weight (wheels, leather/electric seats, more speakers, ect). It's certainly questionable how much the flush TA decal improved performance over the raised metal SRT badge, or the lighter weight carpeting, CF brace, rear fascia and reduced use of noise insulation, but victory was achieved from a pretty long list of little details. All 2014 TA's and subsequent TA 1.0 package cars were identically equipped and performing to the car that Randy set the production car record in. It's a shame the TA 2.0 package cars were never tested, but their performance was surely very similar, probably improved on some tracks that would have taken greater advantage of the improved aero, perhaps a little less so where lower Cd was more ideal.

Motor Trend tried to take credit for pushing SRT to build it in order to regain the Laguna Seca record that the Gen IV ACR lost to the '12 Corvette ZR1 when the new '13 SRT and GTS failed to do so. Ralph claimed the TA was already being developed and SRT just accelerated the TA program and sped release to take back the record. Nail biting stuff back in Feb 2013 when Randy Pobst pulled off the win.

The "TA Group" option simply allowed people to combine most of the TA Package performance parts on other models with other optional equipment. Something for everyone!

The TA Group has all the performance parts (sans the CF X-brace which is arguably better or not, but could be added with GTC). The TA Group is only missing cosmetics, which could have be ordered through GTC program. It's still hard to believe that there is still so much confusion.

Bottom line, TA Group is only missing cosmetics, at the cost/benefit? of being able to customize the car more.

[Vipes]

Since a lot of the talk is about personal preference and biases , which is fine, the one thing that spoke volumes was the customer. When given the choice ( which was available from 15-17 ) you, the consumer, said, " I want a TA1 or TA2 Option group because I don't want the colors Dodge offered. " That frankly is something that seldom is discussed, since most would not be privy to that information since they were not on the ordering end as we were. We started doing 1 of 1s the minute the program began in 2015 and there are a reasonable number of cars built with these 2 Option Groups, especially in 16 and 17 ( remember 15 was a late start on the GTC, i.e. 1 of 1 program ) - and we did a ton of personally designed Snakes.

I don't understand that customer comment? You could order a TA "package" in a custom color. Donk's old car for example in custom grey is a TA package car.

[Vipes]

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ex3atv.jpg

[Bill Pemberton]

Keep in mind the rules in Canada are different than in the US. There are cars they got there that we did not and vice versa. Good question and one I asked and the answer we got was this was done in Canada , but not the US. Later we heard a few were done in the US ( believe in 2016 ). One of the those rarities that pop up over the years. We , for instance , got some cars in 2008 and 2009 with stripes , but they were not billed to the Dealer or then to the consumer, yet they showed on the Window Sticker and in the computer files -- freebie to those customers.

[Voice of Reason]

I'm not going to make friends typing this but here goes...

IMO, with the 1 of 1 program when everyone is special no one is. Meaning since the original owner could option in every tiny detail into their car it became perfect for them, but highly unlikely to be perfect for the next owner. So these beautifully optioned cars don't have a good comparable basis to determine value against. From a unique collectible perspective sure every 1 of 1 is unique, but that just means they're all unique and unique is no longer unique. IMO the low volume numbered series cars that have been put out (150 LEs, 10 Carbon TAs, the 3 groups of 14 TAs, Dealer Editions) will hold value better. Why? Because they are unique enough to be special, there's just enough of them that recent sales can be compared against, and there are enough of them to drive some interest that prospective buyers actually look for the models. NO ONE sets out looking for a specific 1 of 1 that's already been built. But we see people all the time post here looking for TAs. And that drives value.

[Bill Pemberton]

The good thing is many folks agree and many disagree , but all are viewing the Viper in a very positive light and realizing how unusual the machine really was. As noted above , we ( Woodhouse ) have every reason to heavily promote the TAs ( knowing it's heritage), and many know we had Dodge build us the 10 ACR/TAs, yet the real advantage is having folks realize there are so many valuable Vipers. It really is not so much a battle of which one is worth more , since no one will convince everyone of their thought process, and I just threw my hat in the circus since over the coming years I think more and more folks will see so many special cars that were conceived and built. The fact that discussions are all upbeat and positive is where we all need to go, as the machine in our garages can only benefit from our passion coming forth with wonderful platitudes of a car not likely to be seen again in the future.

I always marveled at the magazine complaining that the Viper was hard to drive , scary, a wicked beast , yet when I sold them to Porsche Drivers or Corvette Drivers , they often thought it was more precise and easier to control than what they were trading. It almost seems like an act of manhood ( or womanhood) to say you could handle a Viper, yet the reality is experienced drivers often found the car rewarding because it was not hard to drive , it was hard to drive really fast. Now that semantically sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but the second part of the sentence was the realization that made many of us a slave to the Serpent Mistress --- hard to drive really fast. Why, because when you thought you were at 10/10ths a year later you figured out you were at 9/10ths, and then 6 months after that she/he showed you a bit more potential. Why do we all love her/him so much, the answer is easy , once we thought we found the potential , later we found there was even more. A magazine test drive never gave many that awareness, they simply did not have enough time with the lady ( or gent, for you female owners ) and hence they never got the full effect. The Viper is a true relationship vehicle and there really are fewer and fewer of them coming down the highway.

Back to the discussion , we are all right , but wanted to make sure folks knew there were some other rare machines out there that will pop up , since few are aware they were done -------nuff said.

[Scott_in_fl]

I'm not going to make friends typing this but here goes...

IMO, with the 1 of 1 program when everyone is special no one is. Meaning since the original owner could option in every tiny detail into their car it became perfect for them, but highly unlikely to be perfect for the next owner. So these beautifully optioned cars don't have a good comparable basis to determine value against. From a unique collectible perspective sure every 1 of 1 is unique, but that just means they're all unique and unique is no longer unique. IMO the low volume numbered series cars that have been put out (150 LEs, 10 Carbon TAs, the 3 groups of 14 TAs, Dealer Editions) will hold value better. Why? Because they are unique enough to be special, there's just enough of them that recent sales can be compared against, and there are enough of them to drive some interest that prospective buyers actually look for the models. NO ONE sets out looking for a specific 1 of 1 that's already been built. But we see people all the time post here looking for TAs. And that drives value.

First, let's start with the reality that all of the Vipers are special cars -- incredibly low volume, hand built, great story behind the brand, successful racing history, classic design, the pinnacle of American muscle, still the dream of young boys everywhere, respected by other enthusiasts, etc., etc. But for the '05-'06 Ford GT, there is nothing else as exciting that the American auto industry has produced since the early '70's.

Add to that the current state of transition from gasoline to electric propulsion, and your late model Viper is a very soon to be instant classic. Prices are right now trending toward the $175k range for low mile, desirable ACR-E's.

The question of course is "what is desirable?" You bring up an excellent point that nothing is unique when they all are. Agreed... generally. But the uniqueness of a specific model or color combination is not likely to be the main driver of pricing.

If we're talking about final year, 25th anniversary ACR-E's, there are only a few hundred that were ever made (extrapolating from 600-800 made over the two year period, 2016-2017). Moreover, the car is so drastically different from the other models (again, referring to ACR-E), and from anything else on the road really, that the entire production is very likely to increase in value if any of them do (and, again, they already seem to be).

Thus, I see future pricing for a final year ACR-E being based on the condition and mileage more than anything else. Sure, if you have an amazing Stryker colored car like the beautiful purple with silver stripes, or some other great looking and unique one of one, then you're likely to do just as well as anyone with a numbered SE car because, as you mentioned, there really were too many special editions (it seems that more than half of the overall '17 ACR-E production were SE cars) and none of them had anything that could not be separately ordered. The beautiful, well maintained, rare cars will always fetch top dollar. If you have an "ugly" one of one (not many exist), you might have to wait longer for the right buyer, or maybe you accept a somewhat lower price at resale, but probably not enough to make you lose sleep over. The "ugly" final year ACR-E is still going to be highly prized in just a few years (and sometimes even the most highly prized).

[Angleiron]

Ughhh...comparing apples to apples. Which ever one that gets around the track the fastest is the better one. Colors, badges, and stickers are all meaningless.

[Bruce H.]

The TA Group has all the performance parts (sans the CF X-brace which is arguably better or not, but could be added with GTC). The TA Group is only missing cosmetics, which could have be ordered through GTC program. It's still hard to believe that there is still so much confusion.

Bottom line, TA Group is only missing cosmetics, at the cost/benefit? of being able to customize the car more.

I pointed out that part of the TA Package performance formula was weight reduction of various parts and the inability to add heavier ones, which is different from Group cars. I definitely would not argue what difference any of that might make to the car's performance, but that is a difference between the two. And while the cosmetics are different as you say, the buyer was able to choose which they preferred!

[SRT_BluByU]

Bruce - my gtc t/a 1.0 has all the go fast bit for weight reduction, performance, brakes, wheels, same carpet same interior, same same etc and only excludes the cf x-brace and includes my custom slimer color. the 3 lbs and less rigidity of the cf x doesnt make a difference - its cosmetic. there is no such thing as a un-real t/a.. even the carbon cars were t/a group cars.. a t/a is a t/a is a t/a. stickers, paint and cosmetic cf are the difference.

bill - well put and succent.. all the vipers are unique and wonderful machines we are all lucky to have! i dont think a single one has to worry about value unless its a salvage.. and soon even that wont matter.. just like nobody cares if a winged daytona car was at one point a salvage and has beened restored.

man oh man.. we are the lucky few!

[Policy Limits]

All this time I thought TA was abbreviation for something dirty:t1509:

[Stealth]

OK, let me summarize this and other similar threads:

1. All Vipers are rare!
2. Whatever model of Viper you have, from whichever year, and in the color you own... is the BEST and Most Valuable! (No rationale needed).
3. All Vipers will become much more valuable soon!

:))))))

[SRT_BluByU]

All this time I thought TA was abbreviation for something dirty:t1509:

well yea.. that too... ;)

[SRT_BluByU]

OK, let me summarize this and other similar threads:

1. All Vipers are rare!
2. Whatever model of Viper you have, from whichever year, and in the color you own... is the BEST and Most Valuable! (No rationale needed).
3. All Vipers will become much more valuable soon!

:))))))

im not so sure im that concerned with value.. i bought the car to have fun! i daily drive mine and its fantastic to have that ability.. i thought about something else as a daily driver but then thoughtnwould i ever get up in the morning and want to drive something else instead of the viper.. nope. any other car would just clutter the garage.. haha

[Vipes]

Bruce - my gtc t/a 1.0 has all the go fast bit for weight reduction, performance, brakes, wheels, same carpet same interior, same same etc and only excludes the cf x-brace and includes my custom slimer color. the 3 lbs and less rigidity of the cf x doesnt make a difference - its cosmetic. there is no such thing as a un-real t/a.. even the carbon cars were t/a group cars.. a t/a is a t/a is a t/a. stickers, paint and cosmetic cf are the difference.

Did you start this thread because somebody called your car an un-real t/a because nobody said that in this thread? I agree there is no such thing as a fake T/A but your car is a GTC. It's pretty much semantics and at the end of the day most don't care but this discussion has come up many times and the FCA did confirm this.



As far as the values, I agree with Voice of Reason but with that being said I hope nobody bought the perfect 1 of 1 GTC to save it for the next guy. Life is too short to garage queen and not to enjoy these amazing cars.

[ViperSRT]

Did you start this thread because somebody called your car an un-real t/a because nobody said that in this thread? I agree there is no such thing as a fake T/A but your car is a GTC. It's pretty much semantics and at the end of the day most don't care but this discussion has come up many times and the FCA did confirm this.

And TA package cars are SRT. There are only 4 VIN classifications. SRT, GT, GTS and ACR. TA is not one of them. So call it like it is the package cars are SRT with TA package and option Cars are GT with TA group (which is why comparing the option cost is illogical as they have a different base price).

[Vipes]

And TA package cars are SRT. There are only 4 VIN classifications. SRT, GT, GTS and ACR. TA is not one of them. So call it like it is the package cars are SRT with TA package and option Cars are GT with TA group (which is why comparing the option cost is illogical as they have a different base price).

I think the FCA dropped the ball on that. For example, OTAs are currently selling for $90k-$95k but a 2014 base SRT's goes for around $70k now which could be a problem for insurance claims and used market TA resales with financing.

You can call it whatever you want but the FCA and even the assembly line workers at Conner referred to the car based on what is on the fender. So now you're saying there is no just plain Viper TA? Have you seen what it says in large bold letters on a TA monroney sticker? Here's mine, I hope that helps.

http://i63.tinypic.com/i75x5g.jpg

[ViperSRT]

I promised myself to forever ignore you and your real TA comments. I digressed. My fault. Ciao.

[SRT_BluByU]

I don’t understand the need to segregate vipers over stickers. A GTC ACR-E is an ACR-E just as a GTC TA is a TA. most folks only care about the go fast goodies. Not the stickers or paint. These things are great.. all of ‘em. don't have time to bench race values.. don’t care. Too busy having a great time..

[SLYBRI]

Something I didn't see mentioned yet is the difference in 6th gear ratio between the TA group vs package cars. To best of my knowledge, the TA package had the original (don't recall the ratio) 6th gear while the TA package cars had the revised 6th gear ratio. I tried (in vein) to have my TA 1.0 group GTC built with the TA package trans.

[Vipes]

I don’t understand the need to segregate vipers over stickers. A GTC ACR-E is an ACR-E just as a GTC TA is a TA. most folks only care about the go fast goodies. Not the stickers or paint. These things are great.. all of ‘em. don't have time to bench race values.. don’t care. Too busy having a great time..

You are the one that started this thread and wanted to know the differences lol. A GTC is not a TA. I don't make this stuff up, ask the FCA and they will tell you what they told me, which is to read the fender which would make the GTC ACR-E an ACR-E.

[Voice of Reason]

I don’t understand the need to segregate vipers over stickers. A GTC ACR-E is an ACR-E just as a GTC TA is a TA. most folks only care about the go fast goodies. Not the stickers or paint. These things are great.. all of ‘em. don't have time to bench race values.. don’t care. Too busy having a great time..

The difference here is Dodge, in their infinite wisdom, put the same ACR emblems on GTC ACRs as they did ACR VIN cars. They did NOT do that with TAs. You may consider that a minor difference, but it’s this exact type of distinction by the manufacturer that matters, both now and years from now when bubble wrapped TAs will roll across the auction block. I know this pisses GTC TA optioned owners off. File your complaint with Dodge, I didn’t design the difference into how they marketed and branded these cars. But it’s a real difference as we see playing out in values.

[ACRucrazy]

Keep in mind the rules in Canada are different than in the US. There are cars they got there that we did not and vice versa. Good question and one I asked and the answer we got was this was done in Canada , but not the US. Later we heard a few were done in the US ( believe in 2016 ). One of the those rarities that pop up over the years. We , for instance , got some cars in 2008 and 2009 with stripes , but they were not billed to the Dealer or then to the consumer, yet they showed on the Window Sticker and in the computer files -- freebie to those customers.

I remember seeing some FS with no charge for stripes. I was so confused because of the price! Took me a bit to figure out the issue, my memory is telling me t was a yellow ACR but could be wrong.

[Scott_in_fl]

The difference here is Dodge, in their infinite wisdom, put the same ACR emblems on GTC ACRs as they did ACR VIN cars. They did NOT do that with TAs. You may consider that a minor difference, but it’s this exact type of distinction by the manufacturer that matters, both now and years from now when bubble wrapped TAs will roll across the auction block. I know this pisses GTC TA optioned owners off. File your complaint with Dodge, I didn’t design the difference into how they marketed and branded these cars. But it’s a real difference as we see playing out in values.

If there are bubble wrapped TA package cars and bubble wrapped TA group cars at the same auction in 10 years, the values are likely going to be very, very close. That's because the total overall number of bubble wrapped Vipers will be miniscule by then given the very low original production numbers and the fact that most cars are driven and not collected. Maybe the "real" TA cars get a few more bucks, but I can't see it being more than a 5% difference because all of the models will be considered extremely rare by then. The condition of the cars will be the absolute most important factor to future valuations among similar categories (coupes, verts, ACR, ACR-E).

[PkB2014]

And just to stir up even more confusion. According to the VIN all GTC are just that, GTC. There is no distinction that says it's GTC ACR or TA or Anything. But there is a specific VIN series for regular non-GTC ACRs. So if we are being technical then those are the only "real and true" ACRs. When getting insurance this is an issue for better or worse.

I don't actually care or believe that. But the VINs don't lie! Or do they? :P

[SRT_BluByU]

its all really splitting hairs and semantics.. stickers on the fenders dont make the car. go fast goodies do.

*Edit*

I started this thread out of curiousity on what makes a “real” ta vs the implied “unreal” t/a ive seen thrown around the forum by a few folks. In one of the first posts i was advised to go do a search. My search revealed a small minority of people (several who have posted to this thread) who passionatly forward the false narrative of “real” vs. “unreal” t/a’s (and ACRs to a lesser extent). That got me a bit sideways - why segregate such a wonderful car like the viper; they are all great.

In my research both in this thread, searching the forum, and other avenues, ive come to the conclusions stickers dont make a car; The performance does. However, I dont want to take anything away from those individualrs who bought their T/As as investment tools with the marketed idea of a limited run. I know there can be an argument for 1 of 1 being a limited run, and it is, in a different way. In conclusion there are two types of TA’s. The GTC TA’s and the limited serialized special edition TA’s.

[SRT_BluByU]

Something I didn't see mentioned yet is the difference in 6th gear ratio between the TA group vs package cars. To best of my knowledge, the TA package had the original (don't recall the ratio) 6th gear while the TA package cars had the revised 6th gear ratio. I tried (in vein) to have my TA 1.0 group GTC built with the TA package trans.

huh.. interesting. althought i wonder is that just in 14? i believe all 14s had the higher 6th gear. it wasnt until viper became dodge again did the overdrive reappear.. correct?

[Bruce H.]

FCA definitely made things confusing for buyers, intentionally in some cases, and it will forever be that way. This thread is a good example.

The first Group car I saw was a '14 Anodized Carbon GTS with the TA Group option package at NVE1. It was a 10 unit 2014 limited and numbered edition that had a GTS and TA badge on the fender. Inside it appeared to be a GTS with all of that model's luxury features, full leather interior, electric seats, and so on. While it was an absolutely stunning looking car and really desirable it didn't look anything like a '14 TA, which were identically spec'd SRT's with the "TA Package". The GTS/TA combined luxury and the extra weight features with many of the TA features plus a unique paint scheme. I wondered if badging it a TA was appropriate or misleading, and how much capitalizing on the TA's track record and sales success played into that decision. Up until that time I thought of all TA's as being the identical spec and performance as the car Randy set the record in...if it had the TA badge on it you knew exactly what it was, no debate.

I wondered the same about the ACR Extreme when I discovered that not all Extremes were built to the same spec as the car that set all the track records, and many others questioned that as well. Track rats are all about every detail that contributes to and improves a car's performance on track. This is our hobby, our passion, and we're an anal bunch about small details. Having and adjusting a track set-up to optimize every nuance of performance is the ultimate. Many of the hard-core track rats that bought the '14 TA's jumped into the higher performing ACR Extremes to further those goals.

Views on various models and equipment levels is going to be very much influenced by individual preferences and goals. The appeal and value for some is tied to the badging or rarity of limited and special edition models, for some it's about owning a distinguished model, for some it's about street performance, appearance/cosmetics, and for others it about track performance and upgrading in search for the perfect track weapon. And we do tend to have interesting discussions and debates sometimes if those choices, preferences and perceptions feel threatened, lol.

Bruce

[SLYBRI]

That's right, the change in 6th gear coincided with the 2015 "soft reboot" of Viper. Every source I've checked states the TA and ACR package cars retained the original ratio. I'm unsure of SRTs, but all GT, GTS and GTC models had the revised ratio.

Here are a couple links from the past that have more detail (there are plenty others as well, I'm just too lazy to dig them up at the moment)

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10658-I-hate-my-6th-gear

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13409-differences-between-13-and-16-srt-viper

[PkB2014]

That's right, the change in 6th gear coincided with the 2015 "soft reboot" of Viper. Every source I've checked states the TA and ACR package cars retained the original ratio. I'm unsure of SRTs, but all GT, GTS and GTC models had the revised ratio.

Here are a couple links from the past that have more detail (there are plenty others as well, I'm just too lazy to dig them up at the moment)

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10658-I-hate-my-6th-gear

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13409-differences-between-13-and-16-srt-viper

You have that a little twisted. ACR has the new "softer" 6th gear = 0.50
The base SRT has the original 0.63 gear.
2013-2014: All have original 0.63 gear.
2015-2017: GT, GTS, ACR, GTC (including TA groups) = 0.50

This is clear if you have the order sheet of the car it shows the transmission code.
DD1 = 0.50 (GT, GTS, GTC, ACR)
DEC = 0.63 (SRT)

The original TA has the 0.63 DEC and I understand that all TA package cars do as well even if they are the GTC with TA package instead of SRT TA. Bill can confirm this maybe. I am a little curious how the VIN is numbered for the GTC with TA package versus an SRT with TA package. Probably one of the VIN spreadsheets could shed some light on that for anyone that cares.

[Scott_in_fl]

FCA definitely made things confusing for buyers, intentionally in some cases, and it will forever be that way. This thread is a good example.

The first Group car I saw was a '14 Anodized Carbon GTS with the TA Group option package at NVE1. It was a 10 unit 2014 limited and numbered edition that had a GTS and TA badge on the fender. Inside it appeared to be a GTS with all of that model's luxury features, full leather interior, electric seats, and so on. While it was an absolutely stunning looking car and really desirable it didn't look anything like a '14 TA, which were identically spec'd SRT's with the "TA Package". The GTS/TA combined luxury and the extra weight features with many of the TA features plus a unique paint scheme. I wondered if badging it a TA was appropriate or misleading, and how much capitalizing on the TA's track record and sales success played into that decision. Up until that time I thought of all TA's as being the identical spec and performance as the car Randy set the record in...if it had the TA badge on it you knew exactly what it was, no debate.

I wondered the same about the ACR Extreme when I discovered that not all Extremes were built to the same spec as the car that set all the track records, and many others questioned that as well. Track rats are all about every detail that contributes to and improves a car's performance on track. This is our hobby, our passion, and we're an anal bunch about small details. Having and adjusting a track set-up to optimize every nuance of performance is the ultimate. Many of the hard-core track rats that bought the '14 TA's jumped into the higher performing ACR Extremes to further those goals.

Views on various models and equipment levels is going to be very much influenced by individual preferences and goals. The appeal and value for some is tied to the badging or rarity of limited and special edition models, for some it's about owning a distinguished model, for some it's about street performance, appearance/cosmetics, and for others it about track performance and upgrading in search for the perfect track weapon. And we do tend to have interesting discussions and debates sometimes if those choices, preferences and perceptions feel threatened, lol.

Bruce

Excellent perspective to point out that, especially with the Viper and all of the permutations of choices that FCA created, what is important to one person may not be important to another. Whether it be fender badges, Maroney window stickers, VIN ranges, or limited/special editions, it is absolutely true that all of us have a different opinion about what is more "special".

However, the real insight as it relates to the ever-recurring "future value" conversation is that this same phenomenon will still exist in 10 years, 20 years, or 50 years from now. This is because the future investor will be just as confused as we are about all of the different designations (even more so, because they will not have the depth of knowledge that some on this forum have right now). This is because there is no answer to the question which car is more special. There is no answer now, and there certainly won't be a better answer later.

This is very different from say the '69-'70 Pontiac GTO Judge, '69 Mustang Boss 429, '70 Plymouth Superbird, and numerous other examples of cars that became collectible. They were all genuinely distinct from the cars they were based upon, were first and foremost the highest performing variants in the lineup (by a long shot), and were often sold in extremely limited numbers as a ratio of overall volume for the model (and we're talking like 1%).

None of those factors apply to TA group vs. TA package, GTS vs. GTC, ACR vs. GTC ACR, special edition vs factory one of one. They are all the exact same car (the only real distinction being non-ACR versions vs. ACR versions). They have different stickers, and that really is the only difference. For that reason, this is all nonsense (but fun to talk about).

But that is not to say that the cars are not collectible. They are. But they are collectible because of the story for how they came to be, as stand-alone, halo models, intended to conjure excitement for a lagging American brand that needed a shot in the arm. They were built in incredibly small numbers, by hand, in the auto capital of the world (how much longer will that be true), embodied the best of what America muscle car design could accomplish at any given time, and proved to be worthy competitors on an international stage.

The latest incarnation in the Gen V has shown that all the technology in the world is not necessarily better than a well-thought out and implemented basic design. And most importantly, it has likely closed the chapter on an era when cars were driven by humans and the back page of the book has a giant American flag on it!

[SLYBRI]

You have that a little twisted. ACR has the new "softer" 6th gear = 0.50
The base SRT has the original 0.63 gear.
2013-2014: All have original 0.63 gear.
2015-2017: GT, GTS, ACR, GTC (including TA groups) = 0.50

This is clear if you have the order sheet of the car it shows the transmission code.
DD1 = 0.50 (GT, GTS, GTC, ACR)
DEC = 0.63 (SRT)

The original TA has the 0.63 DEC and I understand that all TA package cars do as well even if they are the GTC with TA package instead of SRT TA. Bill can confirm this maybe. I am a little curious how the VIN is numbered for the GTC with TA package versus an SRT with TA package. Probably one of the VIN spreadsheets could shed some light on that for anyone that cares.

Good info on the ACR gear ratio! I looked into your question regarding VIN numbering on GTC TA package cars and found the 7th digit is D (GTC) with the window sticker listing Viper GTC. T/A 1.0 Package is listed under options. PM me if you want to see an example; I won't post anyone's VIN publicly out of respect for the owner(s).

Regards,
Brian

[Vipes]

its all really splitting hairs and semantics.. stickers on the fenders dont make the car. go fast goodies do.

*Edit*

I started this thread out of curiousity on what makes a “real” ta vs the implied “unreal” t/a ive seen thrown around the forum by a few folks. In one of the first posts i was advised to go do a search. My search revealed a small minority of people (several who have posted to this thread) who passionatly forward the false narrative of “real” vs. “unreal” t/a’s (and ACRs to a lesser extent). That got me a bit sideways - why segregate such a wonderful car like the viper; they are all great.


I don't know who you're talking about forwarding false narrative of real vs unreal t/a? I've never used those words or spread anything false, only facts directly from the creators of our cars. Don't shoot the messenger here! In terms of the designation, the TA package cars are TA's and the option group TA is not. That's it, period. There is no segregation or my car is better than yours as they were made for different buyers. The TA has a story behind it and it was the king of the track before the 2.0 and ACR came out and the designation refers to the exact/precise car down to every option, not a heavier optioned group version.

Nobody has gotten more upset at me relaying the TA designation facts directly from the FCA than "ViperSRT" who always like to tell everybody that his GT with the option group TA cost a heck of a lot more than any TA package car. My guess is that because I have passed the facts from the FCA he thinks I am trying to insult option group TA cars or act like package cars are better and that is not the case. I'm simply passing along info, trying to help. The option group TA cars are badass because they have most of the TA parts, often have luxuries of the GTS, custom colors, etc but it's not exactly the car that set the record. As Bruce just said much better than I can, both cars attract different buyers and both are awesome in different ways. Nobody should be getting upset about this and if you do it should be at the FCA not fellow viper owners.

[SRT_BluByU]

not sure on your info - my gtc ta isnt any heavier than your special edition ta. unless your referring to the stickers being lighter than my fender badges? some folks do seem to get their feathers ruffled over this in each thread where it has come up. its a little funny actually.. ;)

can you post up the letter from FCA you recieved with the facts that there are ‘real’ and ‘unreal’ ta’s? or is this a “i heard it from...” type situation with no documentation? if its fact id stand corrected... but ive only seen hearsay posted in the threads i researched. i do believe you have yourself a fine special edition numbered t/a.. but i also believe viperSRT has a fine gtc t/a.

seems like minutia to me

[Voice of Reason]

http://i63.tinypic.com/i75x5g.jpg


not sure on your info - my gtc ta isnt any heavier than your special edition ta. unless your referring to the stickers being lighter than my fender badges? some folks do seem to get their feathers ruffled over this in each thread where it has come up. its a little funny actually.. ;)

can you post up the letter from FCA you recieved with the facts that there are ‘real’ and ‘unreal’ ta’s? or is this a “i heard it from...” type situation with no documentation? if its fact id stand corrected... but ive only seen hearsay posted in the threads i researched. i do believe you have yourself a fine special edition numbered t/a.. but i also believe viperSRT has a fine gtc t/a.

seems like minutia to me

Does your window sticker say Viper TA like the one above? Because if not then it’s not a Viper TA. You can’t add an option and call it a package. It doesn’t work for the BMW 3 series owner who options in some M performance parts, it’s not suddenly a M3. And the Woodhouse ACR/TA doesn’t get to option in some TA parts and magically become a TA. As awesome as that car is it rolled off the assembly line called an ACR and then had TA badges added at Woodhouse. It doesn’t make the car any less cool, I just don’t get the desire or need by owners to try to make their car something it isn’t. If I add an ACR wing and splitter to my car do I get to call it a TA/ACR? Nope, because that would be stupid. But some here are bent on relabeling their car a TA when that’s not what Dodge labeled it. Historical preservation of the TA designation relies on owners being truthful about what they have. Otherwise we’d be agreeing all those fake Boss Mustangs from the 60s were just the same as the ones that rolled off the assembly line. They aren’t.

[SRT_BluByU]

I disagree. Mine came from the factory exactly in the same configuration as the special edition t/a’s minus the stickers on the fender.. just as a gtc ACR is an ACR. A gtc t/a is a t/a. Exactly the same car minus stickers and paint (a la one of mopars famous special edition sticker packages). And yes my window sticker also has t/a written all over it.. the gtc is the way to get the t/a in a color other than black, white or orange. Hahha I won’t accuse ya of not be passionate about this subject. ;) literally falling on the sword for stickers and a number plate.

Can someone shoot an email off to Ralph for clarification and stop the speculation on such minute difference? Think this thread will go past 10 pages?

[Voice of Reason]

Listen you have a really cool car, I like the color. But you don’t even have the right 6 vent hood that came on TAs. Just enjoy your car and stop trying to make it something it’s not.

[Voice of Reason]

I see you’re still viewing the thread, probably searching for something to note the cars are really the same. In my first search of “TA option group” on the net the person you purchased your car from confirmed back in 2015 they it’s not an official TA. See for yourself:

https://driveviper.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10514.html

[PkB2014]

I don't see a problem calling them both TAs if someone wants to since they have the same performance items. The BMW M comparison made is hugely flawed argument since these TAs actually are identical minus cosmetics. I would personally qualify the cars as Numbered TAs and TA groups, but Dodge...I mean SRT called the 10 Anodized Carbon Edition TAs at least some of the time.

This thread was about differences so it's purpose has been fulfilled. I'd say we don't need another TA thread so arguing about what to call them can be over in the original "real" TA thread.

[ViperSRT]

Voice of Illogic tries to equate ordering an option from the factory as the same as someone who buys a wing in the aftermarket to become something it is not. Freaking ridiculous. ALL cars that came from the factory equipped with a feature have that feature legitimately. TA group option cars state TA option on the Monroney label. They have all of the performance bits as all with the TA monicker. They are not fake no matter how many times you try to state otherwise. And if you insist on calling them GTC TA then you must refer to the others as SRT TAs. TA is not a model. Then go to the ACR side and make the same arguments and see how they like it. Like GTC ACR are not real because they have options that make their weight different from the record makers ... Those arguments will fall on deaf ears just as they should here. Bill made the best argument. Once the TA group option was made available the quantity of package cars dropped like a stone. To a total of 1 TA1 and 1 TA2 for the 2017 model year (versus 31 and 36 respectively for GTC). In light of that Marketing made a good decision as buyers proved.

P.S. I hate all these references of getting info from Dodge. Horace and John have been dead for many years. Any reference to the OEM needs a name to have legitimacy. With that there are few people that truly know the marketing strategies that lead to decisions such as this. In time some will be able to share it.

[Vipes]

Listen you have a really cool car, I like the color. But you don’t even have the right 6 vent hood that came on TAs. Just enjoy your car and stop trying to make it something it’s not.

Well said.


I see you’re still viewing the thread, probably searching for something to note the cars are really the same. In my first search of “TA option group” on the net the person you purchased your car from confirmed back in 2015 they it’s not an official TA. See for yourself:

https://driveviper.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10514.html

I never read that thread before, good find. That says it all from some of the Viper gurus. </END THREAD>

[SRT_BluByU]

I see you’re still viewing the thread, probably searching for something to note the cars are really the same. In my first search of “TA option group” on the net the person you purchased your car from confirmed back in 2015 they it’s not an official TA. See for yourself:

https://driveviper.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10514.html

the hood is cosmetic.. that doesnt slow it down or make any significant weight difference. i dont have a numbered dash placard either. neither matter. that and the stickers are what makes your special edition different and it is one sweet ride. i still dont understand why all the passion to try and segragate it by saying other gtc ta’s arent real. they have every bit of the performance and weight saving goodies straight from the factory floor.

for me this isnt a investment car.. its something to have fun in. so i dont get why you try so hard in so many threads to try and downplay others rides. it gets me a bit sideways as these are all great cars and its quite a silly moot point. we’re all lucky to have such wonderful machines built and designed by great folks.


page 3

[SRT_BluByU]

Voice of Illogic tries to equate ordering an option from the factory as the same as someone who buys a wing in the aftermarket to become something it is not. Freaking ridiculous. ALL cars that came from the factory equipped with a feature have that feature legitimately. TA group option cars state TA option on the Monroney label. They have all of the performance bits as all with the TA monicker. They are not fake no matter how many times you try to state otherwise. And if you insist on calling them GTC TA then you must refer to the others as SRT TAs. TA is not a model. Then go to the ACR side and make the same arguments and see how they like it. Like GTC ACR are not real because they have options that make their weight different from the record makers ... Those arguments will fall on deaf ears just as they should here. Bill made the best argument. Once the TA group option was made available the quantity of package cars dropped like a stone. To a total of 1 TA1 and 1 TA2 for the 2017 model year (versus 31 and 36 respectively for GTC). In light of that Marketing made a good decision as buyers proved.

P.S. I hate all these references of getting info from Dodge. Horace and John have been dead for many years. Any reference to the OEM needs a name to have legitimacy. With that there are few people that truly know the marketing strategies that lead to decisions such as this. In time some will be able to share it.

bingo - nicely put.

[pete.best]

This just seems so overthought!

To me:

Green=Brand
Blue=Model
Yellow=option groups/packages

I don’t understand how anyone can think otherwise. But I’m dense, so......


http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u437/petebest1/CC4C969E-5CE6-4EFB-B5DD-6A58AEEC320C_zpsqirmfobg.jpg (http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/petebest1/media/CC4C969E-5CE6-4EFB-B5DD-6A58AEEC320C_zpsqirmfobg.jpg.html)

[SRT_BluByU]

the model is directly under the price; in that case an SRT. On the sticker youve posted here customer OPTION package 21H lists the t/a equilment. In the case of the GTC t/a the customer OPTION package is 22L. youve unintentionally pointed out something interesting that i think ViperSRT has been hinting at. There is no TA model specifically as the equilment is an option on both the SRT and GTC models. In the case of the the special editions it came with a number plate and fender stickers.

[38D]

Maybe Dr Seuss should have written a book about groups vs. options instead of star bellied sneetches

[pete.best]

the model is directly under the price; in that case an SRT. On the sticker youve posted here customer OPTION package 21H lists the t/a equilment. In the case of the GTC t/a the customer OPTION package is 22L. youve unintentionally pointed out something interesting that i think ViperSRT has been hinting at. There is no TA model specifically as the equilment is an option on both the SRT and GTC models. In the case of the the special editions it came with a number plate and fender stickers.



I would contend the reason the 21H package is listed under optional equipment (on the above sticker) is because the TA model could be 1.0 or 2.0. It has to noted somewhere.

Additionally, the car which belongs to the sticker above DOES have a number plate and fender stickers.......

[commandomatt]

When you go to NADA or Kelley, the models available in the Viper are SRT or GTS for 2014. There are no years where the TA shows up as a model. Just as an option

Wonder if TA is a model when you go to insure it ?

The TA special team is not as strong now that Donk, their quarterback, has been traded

[pete.best]

That’s funny right there

[ViperSRT]

No, models are SRT, GTS, ACR or GT and are reflected with the VIN codes (codes A, B, C and D respectively). Note GT and ACR were not available in 2013 and 2014. TA was never a model in any way, shape or form. ACR could be via model or as an option with GT. Thus the confusion exists there as well. Insurance, unless you provide the Monroney or something, will be based on the model as stated in the VIN. Insurance companies caught on as mine requested a copy of the Monroney before quoting a rate as the value differentials for GT could be huge (from 96k to 180k). Other models had much smaller value ranges.

[dewilmoth]

No, models are SRT, GTS, ACR or GT and are reflected with the VIN codes (codes A, B, C and D respectively). Note GT and ACR were not available in 2013 and 2014. TA was never a model in any way, shape or form. ACR could be via model or as an option with GT. Thus the confusion exists there as well. Insurance, unless you provide the Monroney or something, will be based on the model as stated in the VIN. Insurance companies caught on as mine requested a copy of the Monroney before quoting a rate as the value differentials for GT could be huge (from 96k to 180k). Other models had much smaller value ranges.

My ACR insurance is dirt cheap because it’s a GTC. Curious how that would shake out with a claim, but don’t want to find out. I have a window sticker for the car, so I’m pretty sure they’d be forced to pay market value regardless of what they’re charging me.

[Voice of Reason]

Argue they’re the same all you want, actual used prices clearly reflect the buying public values them differently.

[AZTVR]

Here is the definitive word. :)

TAs are TAs because they came from the factory with that option or group or package. Anyone that owns one with those factory installed options or group or package may call their car a "TA." If asked what model the car is, that is a whole different question I am avoiding.

Everybody in the world refers to a 2002 GTS with the optional Competition Group as an "ACR" even though no where on the window sticker does it even say "ACR" nor does the VIN have a code for it. Let's not change the rules for Gen V.

My ACR's window sticker:

29877

[ViperSRT]

Argue they’re the same all you want, actual used prices clearly reflect the buying public values them differently.

Maybe, but as TA GT versions had MSRP ranging from 110 to 137k you must know what you are comparing. Color also may be a positive or a negative depending on the buyer. But I really doubt you have seen enough sales of GT versions to really develop a cost comparison. Many, like me, will not sell period. So valuation is of little concern.

[PkB2014]

Maybe, but as TA GT versions had MSRP ranging from 110 to 137k you must know what you are comparing. Color also may be a positive or a negative depending on the buyer. But I really doubt you have seen enough sales of GT versions to really develop a cost comparison. Many, like me, will not sell period. So valuation is of little concern.

You keep saying GT, but that’s just the badge on the side. The model is actually GTC and the VIN maps to that as the model. GT is a package added to an SRT. There are no GT TAs. Only SRT TA or GTC TAs. I know it’s a little pedantic, but there’s enough confusion already.

Models with specific VIN series:
SRT
GTS
ACR
GTC

[ViperSRT]

Not really correct. GT was a model. The GTC is the 1 of 1 version. A non 1 of 1 version of GT was possible. The VIN identifier is a GT.

The Dodge website still shows 2017 vehicles and you can see the 4 models. https://www.dodge.com/build#/models/zipcode/48007/vehicle/CUD201707/ccode/CUD201707ZDDH29A/llp/2DH/options/EWG,DEC,TXM,WC1,H5,RA4,X9,PR7,21H,3EJ,APA

[Vipes]

The GTC owners in this thread are trying way to hard. It’s very simple. TA’s are numbered and have a designation on the sill. The GTC option group TA is a GTC not a TA. Stop being lazy and verify with the FCA if you think I just made this up.

Even the person responsible for a large percentage of TA sales and GTC’s with the option group TA ordering/sales has said this years ago in this thread.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10514-Difference-between-14-TA-and-1-of-1-GTC-build

[dewilmoth]

Goddamn, who gives a F$#K. You all sound like a bunch of women arguing over who's purse was more expensive. Its a fun car, regardless of the sticker on the fender...Drive it!

[Voice of Reason]

The GTC owners in this thread are trying way to hard. It’s very simple. TA’s are numbered and have a designation on the sill. The GTC option group TA is a GTC not a TA. Stop being lazy and verify with the FCA if you think I just made this up.

Even the person responsible for a large percentage of TA sales and GTC’s with the option group TA ordering/sales has said this years ago in this thread.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10514-Difference-between-14-TA-and-1-of-1-GTC-build

#FakeNews

;)

[SRT_BluByU]

you guys are hilarious..do ya think if ya say it over and over louder and louder it makes it anymore true? im out!

page 4 on the way.... hahhahaha

[PkB2014]

Not really correct. GT was a model. The GTC is the 1 of 1 version. A non 1 of 1 version of GT was possible. The VIN identifier is a GT.

The Dodge website still shows 2017 vehicles and you can see the 4 models. https://www.dodge.com/build#/models/zipcode/48007/vehicle/CUD201707/ccode/CUD201707ZDDH29A/llp/2DH/options/EWG,DEC,TXM,WC1,H5,RA4,X9,PR7,21H,3EJ,APA

You're pointing me to marketing material in a thread. Yes it was marketed as its own model to bring more attention that there was an option level between base SRT and GTS. If you remember in 2014 the GT option group added to a base SRT model made into a GT, but from 2015 on it was marketed as a prepackaged singular model. But that wasn't technically accurate when looking at the VIN. It's basically the same thing as this whole TA or not TA. Kind of doesn't matter, but when insuring or decoding a VIN it will only decode to SRT, GTS, ACR, or GTC. Corvettes have more precise VINs that decode to let you know different trims, option groups, and engines, etc. Viper seems to be more simplistic. If you look at the model listed under the price on the Monroney the model designation is listed.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I think keeping the original Monroney Sticker with this car will be more and more valuable in the future. Mainly just to prove what options came from the factory since the GTC doesn't tell you anything and could range in options so widely.

Edit2: technically speaking there is no TA model either. This guy has more details and info on Viper production than anyone on the earth. You won't find a GT or a TA model.
http://www.theviperregistry.com/build.php

[Scott_in_fl]

Guys, this phenomenon exists everywhere in Gen 5 Viper land.

Woodhouse has 10 numbered ACR/TA's that are designated as GTC on the Monroney with an ACR package. Are those TA's? Are they ACR's?

Gerry Wood had 6 numbered Black Stripe series cars that were GTC's with an ACR package.

FCA made several 2017 SE's, all numbered, all GTC with ACR packages. Are they ACR's?

The only reason we accept all of the above as ACR's is because FCA put the "ACR" fender badge on everything ordered with the package --- whether ACR or GTC. In fact, the fender decal is a separately identified item included in the package.

Had FCA included the "TA" fender badge on every car ordered with the package (which it probably should have), then we would be calling them all TA's. The fact that FCA made a numbered set of orange, black, and white TA cars in 2014 was really just them producing another special edition. The fender badge was an exclusive item available only with the group and, as a result, only those cars have the TA sticker.

So, the way I see it is that there are SE TA's (which are the numbered group cars) and there are non-SE TA's (which are the non-numbered package cars).

FCA has done this repeatedly, and even individual dealers have caught on, because it apparently helps sell cars at full pop if people believe they are getting a "special edition". However, what we've all learned is that the idea of the "special editions" was mostly a ruse to move units. In nearly every case, there was nothing different about the cars other than a sticker. Anyone could have ordered an identical car on their own. That is not generally considered a "special edition" in the rest of the car world.

Thus, if you buy into the whole "special edition" pitch that FCA used as a lure to entice buyers to a slow-selling brand, then you believe your numbered TA's are the only "real" TA's. And you think all of the other SE cars are special too. You think your SE car is more valuable than a non-SE car.

If you don't buy into the "special edition" pitch, then you likely feel that all cars with the TA package are also TA's. You also don't see any real difference between SE cars and the 1-of-1 cars, or any others for that matter. They're all Vipers, they're all unique, and they're all awesome.

[PkB2014]

Guys, this phenomenon exists everywhere in Gen 5 Viper land.

Woodhouse has 10 numbered ACR/TA's that are designated as GTC on the Monroney with an ACR package. Are those TA's? Are they ACR's?

Gerry Wood had 6 numbered Black Stripe series cars that were GTC's with an ACR package.

FCA made several 2017 SE's, all numbered, all GTC with ACR packages. Are they ACR's?

The only reason we accept all of the above as ACR's is because FCA put the "ACR" fender badge on everything ordered with the package --- whether ACR or GTC. in fact, the fender decal is separately identified item included in the package.

Had FCA included the "TA" fender badge on every car ordered with the package (which it probably should have), then we would be calling them all TA's. The fact that FCA made a numbered set of orange, black, and white TA cars in 2014 was really just them producing another special edition. The fender badge was an exclusive item available only with the group and, as a result, only those cars have the TA sticker.

So, the way I see it is that there are SE TA's (which are the numbered group cars) and there are non-SE TA's (which are the non-numbered package cars).

FCA has done this repeatedly, and even individual dealers have caught on, because it apparently helps sell cars if people believe they are getting a "special edition". However, what we've all learned is that the "special editions" were was mostly a ruse to move units. In most cases, there was nothing different about the cars other than a sticker. Anyone could have ordered an identical car on their own. That is not generally considered a "special edition" in the rest of the car world.

Thus, if you buy into the whole "special edition" pitch that FCA used as a lure to entire buyers to a slow-selling brand, then you believe your numbered TA's are the only "real" TA's. And you think all of the other SE cars are special too. You think your SE car is more valuable than a non-SE car.

If you don't buy into the "special edition" pitch, then you likely feel that all cars with the TA package are also TA's. You also don't see any real difference between SE cars and the 1-of-1 cars, or any others for that matter. They're all Vipers, they're all unique, and they're all awesome.

Yep. That's pretty much the gist of it. Only 4 distinct Models. But many "special editions".

[Trainerdave]

Chill out dude, if you bought your car just to have fun,why do you even care about what is a “real” TA and what is not?
For me there are vin number matching the plate(mine is #5/33) available in only 3 colors, and there are ones where the Vin numbers don’t match and are available in any color the customer wants, that is it... period.

Your car is not a TA car but it is a real Viper, if you want a Viper TA, sell your car and go buy one, or you can keep your Viper and have fun, if I were you I would do just that.

[Bruce H.]

I don't think TA owners of all iterations could ever be accused of not being a passionate group...or is that package? :)

While we can have an informed discussion about the original spec '14 TA and the subsequent small differences, we were all drawn to the car for the same reasons. It became an instant performance icon when Randy Pobst set the Production Car Track Record at Laguna Seca in 2013. Whether we wanted that level of performance for our own road course lapping days or just to own an incredibly stunning piece of performance car and Viper history, we all shared that pride and enthusiasm whether we have a package or group car. We're fortunate that more of us were able to choose one in our choice of color and options and together we're celebrating the achievements of this very special car. There will never be a time when the Time Attack package/group Gen V loses it's place in performance car and Viper history.

So let's appreciate our TA's, regardless of which way it was optioned, labelled or badged. There is no "real" TA, just slightly different variants over the years. They've all got SRT's secret sauce that makes them incredible performers on track, and among the most beautiful and versatile Vipers of all time...and oh no, I'm not the least bit biased!

Bruce

[commandomatt]

Your car is not a TA car but it is a real Viper, if you want a Viper TA, sell your car and go buy one

You 'Real TA' guys are the absolute weirdest group of guys on this Viper forum. You think you have a car that is so amazing and different than anything else that ever had a Viper name plate on it

The car is not as plush as the GTS. The car is nothing like the track beast ACR or ACRE-E. They were limited to 3 colors unlike later models. They are not nearly as unique as the GTC TA's.

You are worse than the Special Edition guys thinking you have the most unusual and special Viper ever built even though is was outdone later in the production run by other models

Then when there is someone else stepping in to say "hey check out my TA', rather than saying Hell Yeahh.....awesome TA !!, you make sure they know that their TA is not 'real' and how dare they insinuate that it is !!

I thought this elitist BS would be gone when Donk left put apparently there is plenty of it still here

[Special Ed]

Everybody knows that a numbered TA2 is the only real TA. JM2C. Lol.

[PkB2014]

Everybody knows that a numbered TA2 is the only real TA. JM2C. Lol.

You right.;)

[parabs]

You 'Real TA' guys are the absolute weirdest group of guys on this Viper forum. You think you have a car that is so amazing and different than anything else that ever had a Viper name plate on it

The car is not as plush as the GTS. The car is nothing like the track beast ACR or ACRE-E. They were limited to 3 colors unlike later models. They are not nearly as unique as the GTC TA's.

You are worse than the Special Edition guys thinking you have the most unusual and special Viper ever built even though is was outdone later in the production run by other models

Then when there is someone else stepping in to say "hey check out my TA', rather than saying Hell Yeahh.....awesome TA !!, you make sure they know that their TA is not 'real' and how dare they insinuate that it is !!

I thought this elitist BS would be gone when Donk left put apparently there is plenty of it still here

I met Donk recently, he's a good dude. I don't think of him as an elitist, rather, I think of donk as someone who thinks the details matter. To some details matter more than others. Consider me in the "others" group/package.

To the topic, TA 1.0 is my favorite gen 5. Because of the factory aero. Numbered vs not numbered, doesn't matter much to me...therefore I bought a 14 SRT and with the savings I bought the OEM CF advanced aero pieces. Also Because the price delta was >40k. Because who gives a fuck what anyone else "thinks" anyway, really?? And mostly Because, I likely can't extract the extra TA group performance out of the car anyways.

I have thought about getting TA stickers in place of the SRT chrome letters currently installed, or maybe Ill do some gen 4 Viper lettering, or maybe not. I know, I know, "how could I??"

As and aside, people outside the group won't know the difference. People also outside the group often don't know what type of car a viper is.

[outnumbered]

Where the "TA" falls amongst other Gen V Vipers when it comes to the advertised top speed:

GTS/SRT= 206mph
TA= Not as fast
TA 2.0= Slower
ACR= Slowest

[Voice of Reason]

I met Donk recently, he's a good dude. I don't think of him as an elitist, rather, I think of donk as someone who thinks the details matter. To some details matter more than others. Consider me in the "others" group/package.

To the topic, TA 1.0 is my favorite gen 5. Because of the factory aero. Numbered vs not numbered, doesn't matter much to me...therefore I bought a 14 SRT and with the savings I bought the OEM CF advanced aero pieces. Also Because the price delta was >40k. Because who gives a fuck what anyone else "thinks" anyway, really?? And mostly Because, I likely can't extract the extra TA group performance out of the car anyways.

I have thought about getting TA stickers in place of the SRT chrome letters currently installed, or maybe Ill do some gen 4 Viper lettering, or maybe not. I know, I know, "how could I??"

As and aside, people outside the group won't know the difference. People also outside the group often don't know what type of car a viper is.

That sounds like a nice WS6 package you’re putting together. I think they make badges for that.

[parabs]

that sounds like a nice ws6 package you’re putting together. I think they make badges for that.

lol

[TA Two Oh]

Where the "TA" falls amongst other Gen V Vipers when it comes to the advertised top speed:

GTS/SRT= 206mph
TA= Not as fast
TA 2.0= Slower
ACR= Slowest

Point taken. As an aside, I couldn't find much in the way of instrumented test results on the T/A 2.0. If anyone knows of a full road/track test, with performance figures including top speed, please share. Downforce figures are published, and acceleration results are obviously pretty much the same as all Gen V's - at least until very high speeds are reached. But I was particularly curious about top speeds.

So, when I met Eric Heuschele (Manager, SRT Motorsports Engineeringand SRT Vehicle Dynamics) at Viper Tracks, I specifically asked him about the T/A 2.0's top speed. He told me that it was the same as that of the T/A (T/A 1.0). That surprised me so I pressed him. He said that with the 2.0 aero parts, they were able to match the overall drag of the 1.0, despite the greater downforce. He said that the raised wing was more efficient than the extended lip. Of course, the downforce numbers are not that different either, so as far as practical performance goes, all T/A's... Group, Package, 1.0, 2.0 are the same in my book. And they're all fantastic!

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Interesting point, but makes a bunch of sense. These cars all need to be very carefully balanced front to rear, because they will be run at high speeds. The TA 1.0 and TA 2.0 have similar front aero, similar rake, ride height, etc., with the only real difference being the rear wing. It would stand to reason that the TA 2.0 wing would be designed to generate very close to the same amount of downforce as the TA 1.0 extended lip.

[swexlin]

Where the "TA" falls amongst other Gen V Vipers when it comes to the advertised top speed:

GTS/SRT= 206mph
TA= Not as fast
TA 2.0= Slower
ACR= Slowest

That gave me a chuckle right there! It's my one claim to fame with my '13 Track Pack car - it's the lightest and fastest! LOL!

[Bruce H.]

So, when I met Eric Heuschele (Manager, SRT Motorsports Engineeringand SRT Vehicle Dynamics) at Viper Tracks, I specifically asked him about the T/A 2.0's top speed. He told me that it was the same as that of the T/A (T/A 1.0). That surprised me so I pressed him. He said that with the 2.0 aero parts, they were able to match the overall drag of the 1.0, despite the greater downforce. He said that the raised wing was more efficient than the extended lip. Of course, the downforce numbers are not that different either, so as far as practical performance goes, all T/A's... Group, Package, 1.0, 2.0 are the same in my book. And they're all fantastic!

Right on Doug! And I'm sure he's absolutely right.

The Viper's fastback styling causes airflow over the roof to then follow down the rear hatch, and in doing so creates lift over the hatch. The 1.0 rear spoiler creates downforce but also turbulence and drag behind the car where the flow detaches from the car. The cutout in the center of the spoiler helps reduce turbulence and drag by creating a vortex.

The elevated 2.0 wing addresses these issues by actually causing the airflow over the roof to detach at its rear and flow straight back over/under the wing rather than following the hatch and creating lift. I suspect it also helps the air detach from the rear with a little less turbulence and resulting drag.

Just one more reason to love the TA 2.0 :drive:

Bruce

[PkB2014]

Where the "TA" falls amongst other Gen V Vipers when it comes to the advertised top speed:

GTS/SRT= 206mph
TA= Not as fast
TA 2.0= Slower
ACR= Slowest

That is one of the amazing things about Vipers, the cheapest one is the fastest for drag racing and top speed runs.


Point taken. As an aside, I couldn't find much in the way of instrumented test results on the T/A 2.0. If anyone knows of a full road/track test, with performance figures including top speed, please share. Downforce figures are published, and acceleration results are obviously pretty much the same as all Gen V's - at least until very high speeds are reached. But I was particularly curious about top speeds.

So, when I met Eric Heuschele (Manager, SRT Motorsports Engineeringand SRT Vehicle Dynamics) at Viper Tracks, I specifically asked him about the T/A 2.0's top speed. He told me that it was the same as that of the T/A (T/A 1.0). That surprised me so I pressed him. He said that with the 2.0 aero parts, they were able to match the overall drag of the 1.0, despite the greater downforce. He said that the raised wing was more efficient than the extended lip. Of course, the downforce numbers are not that different either, so as far as practical performance goes, all T/A's... Group, Package, 1.0, 2.0 are the same in my book. And they're all fantastic!

That's interesting on the TA 2.0. With 5th topping out around 187 mph, that's about as much as either TA will do in most cases anyway.

[TA Two Oh]

Bruce. We could run the Silver State Classic Challenge and verify the top speeds of our otherwise identical cars ourselves...140 km of open road without a pesky speed limit. I think a Chrysler product even holds the current record. And it's in Nevada in May so... easy to hit post-NVE III.

Of course, our cars capabilities may be the same, but you have a huge Driver Mod advantage...

[Bruce H.]

Bruce. We could run the Silver State Classic Challenge and verify the top speeds of our otherwise identical cars ourselves...140 km of open road without a pesky speed limit. I think a Chrysler product even holds the current record. And it's in Nevada in May so... easy to hit post-NVE III.

Of course, our cars capabilities may be the same, but you have a huge Driver Mod advantage...

Haha, that sounds like a blast but why do I feel like I'm being set up for something here!!!

Aren't you the one who taught Randy Pobst everything he knows??

[TA Two Oh]

Randy who?

[PkB2014]

Bruce. We could run the Silver State Classic Challenge and verify the top speeds of our otherwise identical cars ourselves...140 km of open road without a pesky speed limit. I think a Chrysler product even holds the current record. And it's in Nevada in May so... easy to hit post-NVE III.

Of course, our cars capabilities may be the same, but you have a huge Driver Mod advantage...

Not to burst your bubble but there is a tech speed limit depending on your car setup and experience level. The only class witthout a tech limit is unlimited class which are basically race cars. If it's your first time I think they let you do the 120mph class at most. And the Stock Viper can tech for the 140mph class with some small safety additions. IIRC.

[ViperSRT]

^^^ Interesting point, but makes a bunch of sense. These cars all need to be very carefully balanced front to rear, because they will be run at high speeds. The TA 1.0 and TA 2.0 have similar front aero, similar rake, ride height, etc., with the only real difference being the rear wing. It would stand to reason that the TA 2.0 wing would be designed to generate very close to the same amount of downforce as the TA 1.0 extended lip.

Front aero is not the same (horizontal splitter and canards). And rear down force is documented at 400 lb at 150 mph for TA 2, more than double a TA1.