1994 viper at Barrett Jackson

[mak1118]

1994 black viper sold yesterday at Barrett Jackson for $40k..... only had 700 miles but I went to look at the car last weekend and it was not in good shape imo. Problem with buying a car with low miles like that is first is the mileage correct and second none of the problems such as head gaskets have not been done yet.

[Black94rt/10]

Mileage is not always the best indicator of condition. I could park my brand new car in the middle of new york city, leave it there for a month, and when I returned (if it was still there lol), it would be scratched, dinged, and dented all over. Plus as you mentioned the fact that things will start to dry up with such low use.

[Matt Houston]

The '94 black RT/10 sold for $44,000 (with buyer's commission)...not a bad price for what looks to be a clean, low-mileage gen 1!

[Taximan1]

There are Many, MANY 20 footer cars at Barrett. Been there, and have seen these cars. (although not this particular RT, so can't say for sure))..... It's Amazing how good those lights make the cars look... Mecum is higher quality cars. Look at what those 96 Coupes did.

[Bill Pemberton]

Keep in mind that Mak has a RT10 and if he said the car was not in very good condition it likely was not. Same with Taximan's comments, been there and the lights often help the cars compared to their true quality.

[Matt Houston]

Keep in mind that Mak has a RT10 and if he said the car was not in very good condition it likely was not. Same with Taximan's comments, been there and the lights often help the cars compared to their true quality.

I find that even more encouraging. If a pos '94 Viper, as decribed by Mak, sells for $44,000, imagine what a quality '94 RT/10 could fetch.

[Bill Pemberton]

Realistically the 40K it sold for is on the high side for a Gen 1, but the miles were likely the hook for the buyer. That said , I think many of us anticipate a gradual climb in the coming years when the cars all become harder to come by.

[FLATOUT]

Keeping my 1992 perfect :D

[Viper vince]

Plus 1994 was the highest production year ever

[dave6666]

Rich drunk people bidding on cars at an over glamorized auction. lol.



Please folks, let's not use these cars as market indicators. Use the real world; a weighted average of all cars sold. Statistics is a science. Not a manipulation of facts to suit an agenda.

[bluesrt]

at 700 miles. your gonna have to hang all kinds of parts on that hoopti, or let it sit and rott sumor

[Matt Houston]

Please folks, let's not use these cars as market indicators. Use the real world; a weighted average of all cars sold. Statistics is a science. Not a manipulation of facts to suit an agenda.

Actually, auction sales are market indicators for the hobby and collector cars in general, and with prices on the rise this year, it looks like the vintage Viper is finally being recognized for the great car that we always knew it was.

[Boosted Motorsports]

Man that is a disappointing investment for someone to have. Over 20 years of storage and and staring at the thing and they LOST money. Said it before and I'll say it again but inflation of the $ plays a huge factor in these long term "investments".

$40,000 today (2017) is like buying that car for $24,699.28 in 1994.
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

[bluesrt]

just buy hemi cuda,s, superbird hemi,s- Shelby true cobras and call it a day

[Purple Haze]

Barrett Jackson as already noted is not a good barometer of market values for any collectible. I'm glad Vipers are on the rise though. Again I deal in old service station collectibles, values from $300-$100,000 plus, no phony repro crap, and every year I see at Barrett common $500 pieces bring $2500-$4000 plus with no exaggeration here. Some pieces do fall through the cracks but many bring double and triple retail. More money than sense we say...Anyway I know that Vipers will continue to go up over the years. Right now some of us can't see the forest for the trees. Once production stops that should change...

[mak1118]

The '94 black RT/10 sold for $44,000 (with buyer's commission)...not a bad price for what looks to be a clean, low-mileage gen 1!

I checked that car, it had damage... big gouge on the bumper down low, chips and scratches throughout the paint and the seats were nice but the dash was damaged. I told my wife that I might register to bid on it cause it might go very low, told her if it goes low I might buy it so I have extra parts for my '95...btw, my '95 looks 10 times better than what that one did. That first 700 miles were very rough I would say. Shocked it went for $40k and the buyers commission of 10%.

[mak1118]

Barrett Jackson as already noted is not a good barometer of market values for any collectible. I'm glad Vipers are on the rise though. Again I deal in old service station collectibles, values from $300-$100,000 plus, no phony repro crap, and every year I see at Barrett common $500 pieces bring $2500-$4000 plus with no exaggeration here. Some pieces do fall through the cracks but many bring double and triple retail. More money than sense we say...Anyway I know that Vipers will continue to go up over the years. Right now some of us can't see the forest for the trees. Once production stops that should change...

Usually the cars on a Wednesday don't go that crazy, its Friday and Saturday where they go nuts but I know what you are talking about.

[mak1118]

Keep in mind that Mak has a RT10 and if he said the car was not in very good condition it likely was not. Same with Taximan's comments, been there and the lights often help the cars compared to their true quality.

I went there last Saturday for the preview and it wasn't lit up and you could see what it was.... I stayed up till midnight to catch the replay cause I missed it earlier and when it went across the stage with the lights I said to myself, is that the same car? lol

[Donato]

The barometer can be set at whatever $$$ and I've been researching Vipers for a couple months now and I've noticed that even reasonably priced Vipers have been on the market for; 100, 200, 300+ days so I don't think raising the set-point even higher will help them sell any faster?

[GTSgreg]

1993 car sold at mecum last week for 32 grand plus the ding with 1900 miles. I saw it in person and it was near flawless.

[bluesrt]

seems to me that factory high hp cars bring the money, so these first year cars wont do anything in my opinion

[Coloviper]

Hey, good for that owner and seller. How else are we going to get the prices up? No let's do the usual thing the past few years and try to drive the prices down into the toilet, because that is the smart thing to do with our cars right? You may want your Viper to be peanuts but me, I would love to see it eventually go up in value and enjoy it all along putting miles with smiles! Truthfully, buy smart but if someone buys high, good for them and good for us owners too. Reality, is they should be worth a lot more than they are. Hell some good ones were selling for under $30k which is crazy when you think of what you are getting.

[mak1118]

Got to be honest, never bought the '95 for an investment.... bought it sight unseen in June of '95 lived in Chicago at that time so was hard to drive with the lousy roads and the traffic and the weather. I bought the viper cause it reminded me of the batmobile when I saw it, told my wife got to have it. At that time they were going over list but I kept calling dealers and found a dealer that got one for me from another dealer and I paid under msrp. I have never bought a car at msrp and never will. When I buy a car I say to myself that money is gone for good, I don't figure the car is worth anything and then I don't worry about what it is worth ever again until I trade it in....:)

[viperman4125]

I find that even more encouraging. If a pos '94 Viper, as decribed by Mak, sells for $44,000, imagine what a quality '94 RT/10 could fetch.

It all depends who is in the room at the time of the auction, and how bad they want that car.

[Special Ed]

Got to be honest, never bought the '95 for an investment.... bought it sight unseen in June of '95 lived in Chicago at that time so was hard to drive with the lousy roads and the traffic and the weather. I bought the viper cause it reminded me of the batmobile when I saw it, told my wife got to have it. At that time they were going over list but I kept calling dealers and found a dealer that got one for me from another dealer and I paid under msrp. I have never bought a car at msrp and never will. When I buy a car I say to myself that money is gone for good, I don't figure the car is worth anything and then I don't worry about what it is worth ever again until I trade it in....:)

Smart man.

[RedTanRT/10]

Didn't see this car live but how many sub 700 mi G1's are out there in black with the window sticker still attached??

Cheap $$'s for a near new 23 yr old new viper.

For what it's worth, this info was from the consiger;

This car’s odometer reads 678 actual miles. Purchased from the original owner. The original title is available and is autographed by Bob Lutz and Carroll Shelby. This Viper is entirely original and fully documented. Stored for the last 14 years. This Viper is still in the wrapper. Original delivery protection wrappers are still in place. This rare collector car will compliment the best collections in the World. Comes complete with dossier of original documentation.;

[mak1118]

Didn't see this car live but how many sub 700 mi G1's are out there in black with the window sticker still attached??

Cheap $$'s for a near new 23 yr old new viper.

For what it's worth, this info was from the consiger;

This car’s odometer reads 678 actual miles. Purchased from the original owner. The original title is available and is autographed by Bob Lutz and Carroll Shelby. This Viper is entirely original and fully documented. Stored for the last 14
years. This Viper is still in the wrapper. Original delivery protection wrappers are still in place. This rare collector car will compliment the best collections in the World. Comes complete with dossier of original documentation.;

I didn't see a window sticker(but they may have took it off at the preview), wrapping, the car had 728 miles if I remember and if it was stored for 14 years it sure didn't look like it. Down low on the front bumper cover there was a gouge about a half inch thick and all the way from the back part of that piece to the front, maybe 6 inches long, paint had scratches and chips, interior to the left of the glove compartment had a piece cracked, left door handle inside was busted and it looked the difference between the color of the console was much newer than the part in front of it... as I recall it had a different radio also, at least different than mine...... also something looked different with the color of the dash near the radio at least different than mine but mine is a '95. I only saw the 1 1994 black viper on the pages before I went and only saw 1 there but it was during the preview days, saw a couple other years too.. think there was one more year somewhere but didn't find it.

[ViperJon]

I didn't see a window sticker(but they may have took it off at the preview), wrapping, the car had 728 miles if I remember and if it was stored for 14 years it sure didn't look like it. Down low on the front bumper cover there was a gouge about a half inch thick and all the way from the back part of that piece to the front, maybe 6 inches long, paint had scratches and chips, interior to the left of the glove compartment had a piece cracked, left door handle inside was busted and it looked the difference between the color of the console was much newer than the part in front of it... as I recall it had a different radio also, at least different than mine...... also something looked different with the color of the dash near the radio at least different than mine but mine is a '95. I only saw the 1 1994 black viper on the pages before I went and only saw 1 there but it was during the preview days, saw a couple other years too.. think there was one more year somewhere but didn't find it.

They may not have driven it much but they must have been living in it to get that beat up in 700 miles. How does a car get that damaged without being driven?
You don't see those things on cars with 30K on them. Careless ownership.

[Donato]

They may not have driven it much but they must have been living in it to get that beat up in 700 miles. How does a car get that damaged without being driven?
You don't see those things on cars with 30K on them. Careless ownership.

I'll bet the mileage was rolled back on that one.

[Matt M, Pa]

From friends that have gone to the BJ Auction in Scottsdale, it's like a typical cruise night. Lots of "average" or worse cars with a few stand outs. When I saw that RT go over the block, it sure looked good and hearing about the mileage...
It sounded good. Sorry to hear the actual condition didn't match the hype...but not surprised.

I also wouldn't want the car signed by anyone. I get the significance....just isn't for me.

[Geronimo]

From friends that have gone to the BJ Auction in Scottsdale, it's like a typical cruise night. Lots of "average" or worse cars with a few stand outs. When I saw that RT go over the block, it sure looked good and hearing about the mileage...
It sounded good. Sorry to hear the actual condition didn't match the hype...but not surprised.

I also wouldn't want the car signed by anyone. I get the significance....just isn't for me.What you don't hear is many consigners at B.J. selling the premium cars would buy back their own cars and just pay the buyers fee to keep from losing their butt. That's why they brought back the reserve. It was getting ridiculous.

[Matt M, Pa]

Yes, in fact I know first hand (not my cars) where that occurred....

I'm the BJ people have it all figured out...booze....bright lights...booze....prices go up!

[Bill Pemberton]

If I remember correctly , when Woodhouse was working with Hurst to promote the Hurst/Woodhouse Viper for charity ( Victory Junction Gang Camp), I think the booze card with your credentials had a limit of ONLY 12 drinks per day............................stop laughing , that was my thought back then. I can remember numerous times while in line, folks would see I had used only a couple ( working the booth with Hurst ) they would beg me to get them a drink as they were out. Still remember a group of three guys begging folks , me included , for drinks and saying they needed to hurry as the car they wanted to get was coming up for bid soon. Had to go back and work but rumor from a guy working next to me, was they got the car and paid through the nose. He said the funniest part was two of the guys were bidding against each other.

BJ Auctions --booze juiced auctions!!

[mak1118]

I've been watching Barrett Jackson Scottsdale for a few years now.... the giveaway is they never put the real nice cars up for bid on a Wednesday. The cars get better as the days approach the weekend... Friday and Saturday are the nicer cars.

[COI]

I've been watching Barrett Jackson Scottsdale for a few years now.... the giveaway is they never put the real nice cars up for bid on a Wednesday. The cars get better as the days approach the weekend... Friday and Saturday are the nicer cars.

The seller actually pays a premium for the Friday/Saturday slots. BJ certainly encourages owners of better cars to pay the up-charge. All part of the auction game.

[mak1118]

The seller actually pays a premium for the Friday/Saturday slots. BJ certainly encourages owners of better cars to pay the up-charge. All part of the auction game.

I didn't know that wonder how much the difference between days is, heck maybe next year I'll think about putting mine up on a Saturday night... $e$e$e

[Purple Haze]

Last year I had a friend at Barrett Jackson was bidding on a $20,000 item. Bids kept going up, got up above 21K plus... went up again, a respected known auctioneer from a different company told him to put his hand down they have no bids above your $19,000 bid!!! True story. They had run him up with no bids...He put his hand down got the item for under 20K...Know how to bid!!! How much of that goes on???

[whitebluevipe]

First off cars are really not good investments or investments at all for that matter. S and P 500 historical average adjusted for inflation is around 7%. It constantly changes a little with time but lets take 7% for the number. now lets use the rule of 72 (you divide the interest rate into 72 and it tell you how many years it take to double your money.) so for sake of argument it takes 10 years to double your money at 7%. Purchase price of the car is $60,500. Let's not worry about sales tax, tags, ect. So $60,500 in 2017 in the S and P 500 would be $296,459.61. Owner ship of the car would include insurance, registrations, inspections, ect. so at say average $800 a year for 23 years you have another $18,400 in expense for owning the car. So your $60,500 car "investment" selling for $40,000 and subtracting $18,400 in expenses and $4000 commission plus probably $700 to ship it there would net a whopping $16,900

[FrankBarba]

You need to get that window sticker laminated.

[SilverACR]

Vipers are a fantastic investment... In fun!

[Dan Cragin]

I think the Gen 1 Viper's are undervalued now and a good investment. Most repairs on these cars are cosmetic or normal mechanical work, due to the age of the car.
Its interesting, I had a McLaren and a CL65 Mercedes in the shop the other day, everyone was looking at the black 93 Viper on the rack.

I have one client with a 94 Viper. He is King of the 1/8th mile dragstrip out here at Irwindale. Bolt ons, double disc clutch, Wavetrac, better halfshafts and drag slicks. He can take on any new street car, even a Hellcat,
no contest. Over 100 runs without an issue. He bought it for 25k and drives it everyday.

[SlowPoke McGee]

First off cars are really not good investments or investments at all for that matter. S and P 500 historical average adjusted for inflation is around 7%. It constantly changes a little with time but lets take 7% for the number. now lets use the rule of 72 (you divide the interest rate into 72 and it tell you how many years it take to double your money.) so for sake of argument it takes 10 years to double your money at 7%. Purchase price of the car is $60,500. Let's not worry about sales tax, tags, ect. So $60,500 in 2017 in the S and P 500 would be $296,459.61. Owner ship of the car would include insurance, registrations, inspections, ect. so at say average $800 a year for 23 years you have another $18,400 in expense for owning the car. So your $60,500 car "investment" selling for $40,000 and subtracting $18,400 in expenses and $4000 commission plus probably $700 to ship it there would net a whopping $16,900

Oops. Try again.
http://le-monde-edmond.com/classic-car-returns-over-20-years/

Question should be: is a Dodge Viper in mint condition a blue chip car to own for maximum potential profit. Probably not...

[Vprbite]

I think the Gen 1 Viper's are undervalued now and a good investment. Most repairs on these cars are cosmetic or normal mechanical work, due to the age of the car.
Its interesting, I had a McLaren and a CL65 Mercedes in the shop the other day, everyone was looking at the black 93 Viper on the rack.

I have one client with a 94 Viper. He is King of the 1/8th mile dragstrip out here at Irwindale. Bolt ons, double disc clutch, Wavetrac, better halfshafts and drag slicks. He can take on any new street car, even a Hellcat,
no contest. Over 100 runs without an issue. He bought it for 25k and drives it everyday.

The viper, especially that Gen I, will always have a visceral appeal in my opinion. Plus it's rarity makes it something people want to see.

[Drummerviper]

I think the Gen 1 Viper's are undervalued now and a good investment. Most repairs on these cars are cosmetic or normal mechanical work, due to the age of the car.
Its interesting, I had a McLaren and a CL65 Mercedes in the shop the other day, everyone was looking at the black 93 Viper on the rack.

I have one client with a 94 Viper. He is King of the 1/8th mile dragstrip out here at Irwindale. Bolt ons, double disc clutch, Wavetrac, better halfshafts and drag slicks. He can take on any new street car, even a Hellcat,
no contest. Over 100 runs without an issue. He bought it for 25k and drives it everyday.

Hope you are right

[whitebluevipe]

I was talking about vipers and normal everyday sports cars. you want to use that example i will use Berkshire Hathaway. I can find an extreme case in any avenue of collecting that will out do the market. but the whole point of this guys post was the VIPER selling for $40,000 not a car made for 4 years and there was only 970 total produced. "But the returns of classic cars omit one important factor. Maintenance and upkeep. Insurance, storage costs and maintenance are not included in car prices. These expenses can be quite large and should be factored in when owning a classic car. Simply looking at price returns gives a wrong picture." Quote from your article.
And was their example restored? if sou that can be several hundred thousand dollars. I'm not downing Vipers but you are foolish calling them "investments". I bet a 1992 with say 100 miles on it at auction wouldn't go for more than $100k and that's what they were selling for at the dealerships with the markup. total return on investment $0 minus auction fees. And yes I would love to have one.

[SlowPoke McGee]

Well, to be clear, you did say "cars are really not a good investment or investment at all" It was that particular sentiment I know to be untrue. It may have been a typo? I do, however, agree with you that Viper's are not the car to buy in hopes of making a 1200% combined ROI (less expenses of course).

Want a low cost automotive investment that is likely to see better returns than the s & p over the next 1-2 yrs? Honestly I'd say the stock market is riskier right now than this investment. Trumps policies could go either way...
https://www.hagerty.ca/apps/valuationtools/1972-BMW-2002tii
You heard it here first.

[BFoster]

I spent a lot of time at B-J this year, and quite a bit of time looking over the Vipers (we had 4 this year). I recognize the fact that our cars will take time to increase significantly in value, but rest assured, they will. I foresee the Viper being very similar to mid-year Corvettes. Mileage will not be an issue, but modifications will. Again, this is only my personal opinion.

Just don't expect a quick return on investment unless you steal the car and flip it!