Pirelli slicks on viper ta

[GTSilver]

Track season just about started in our part of the world, yes I know guys you are going to hate me due to the winter weather you have now but its only for 4 months than after that its scorching hot in our part of the world.

So I took my ta last week to the track as its been a while since last season and I only drove it twice on track. This time I went with pirelli slicks and compare them with michelins which I usually run on my other car. Grip was superior everywhere and that reduced my previous lap time and really didn't notice any much of a difference between pirelli and michelins. However although I'm still enjoying tracking the car I still need to push the car more thats why I didn't see the benefits of slicks, after seeing the videos on track I can count many mistakes. Early braking points, hesitation on the throttle at corner entry and transition from throttle to braking and vice versa is slow. The reason for the early braking points is that I think that the brakes won't be sufficient to slow the car down. I know I should try to push it every time so I can know the limits of the brakes and that is what I'll do next track day in 2 weeks.

I'd love to hear your feedback on areas of where to improve etc. Again the car is on ta rotors with carbotech pads front and rear, pirelli slicks on sidewinder 2 wheels, heads and cam package and bbs headers and corsa exhaust.

Here is the video of the fastest lap that I got; please disregard the shouting from my passenger as he was giving me pointers on track.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3cXuxLdgrs&t=16s

Last thing for anyone that haven't tracked his viper on track you are missing out big time.

Thanks
Yousif

[Mclarengts]

Nice.. Wish I could get out there and race with you!!

[steve911]

What size Pirelli slicks are you running on your car?

[GTSilver]

What size Pirelli slicks are you running on your car?

305/660-18
325/705-19

[Arizona Vipers]

I would stop running slicks and get Hoosier R7's so you can learn the car. The slicks will provide grip way beyond your skill level and you will never learn the car.
Ideally, I'd even go through a few sets of street tires, then move on to R7's, then the Michelin/Pirelli slicks.
With the tires you have now, you will never even come close to sliding the car and learning how to control it at it's limits.

[Bill Pemberton]

Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

[GTSilver]

I would stop running slicks and get Hoosier R7's so you can learn the car. The slicks will provide grip way beyond your skill level and you will never learn the car.
Ideally, I'd even go through a few sets of street tires, then move on to R7's, then the Michelin/Pirelli slicks.
With the tires you have now, you will never even come close to sliding the car and learning how to control it at it's limits.

To be honest the reason i'm went with the slicks is that for the extra grip. Yes its not the right way to go but after trying them out I don't see myself going back to street tires on track.


Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

Thanks Bill, and yes I'm running the hard compound tires. I borrowed the camera from I friend as I forgot mine so thats the only footage I've got. But next track day I'll try to get more footage and try to work on my mistakes and push the car more and post it here.

[Bill Pemberton]

Great , I run the Pirelli slicks on one of my other cars and find them to be a very predictable race tire and no worries about pushing the car more, you were doing fine. I would just continue to work on your lines, getting acclimated to the car, etc. since you were doing a pretty darn good job out of the box. What other cars have you run in the past?

[Arizona Vipers]

Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

For me, the best advice I ever got from somebody regarding tracking a car was to go back to street tires for a few months. My first track car came with R1's already on it. An R compound tire raised the limits of the car to the point where when it would start to spin recovering from the spin was impossible at my skill level. My instructor told me to go back to street tires which I did which lowered the limits of the car greatly and I learned car control very quickly. I am a way better driver now because of this. 99% of professional instructors would agree with this. Yes, a beginner on slicks is going to turn faster lap times than street tires or Hoosiers, but he'll never learn car control.

[Bill Pemberton]

Have been instructing for 20+ years and in many cases I would agree with you , but whereas the car came with the Pirelli Corsas, I have no problem with him going to Pirelli slicks since I think they are more predictable and Corsas have no ability to switch side to side. The P Zero, on the other hand, is a great tire for learning and occasional track use , but my comment was based more on the fact that we do not know the skill level or experience of the driver , an assumption was just made. Sorry , we have no idea if he is a beginner and frankly at the speeds he was going he did not appear as such , but limited data to access. Lastly to say a beginner on slicks is never going to learn car control is again not really true, just an opinion. A lot of young drivers were thrown on them from day one and they definitely still learned car control.

[GTSilver]

Great , I run the Pirelli slicks on one of my other cars and find them to be a very predictable race tire and no worries about pushing the car more, you were doing fine. I would just continue to work on your lines, getting acclimated to the car, etc. since you were doing a pretty darn good job out of the box. What other cars have you run in the past?

Yes this is what I'm trying to achieve as this is my 3rd time on track and still learning the car and would like to get as many track days as possible with the car so I can improve my lines and driving. I have driven both Caterham R400 if you know the car a small British car and my 911 gt2 for a couple of years.

I don't see myself as a really great driver but I'm improving year on year as its a learning experience every time on track.

Here is another 2 laps in my 911 :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pounKrfpo1E

The issue here in our part of the world is motorsports is a new thing to us, the first racetrack is 12 years old not like in Europe or in the USA. So in terms of track knowledge or coaching is close to none here and getting coaching is very expensive due to flights, accommodation etc so what I usually do is look at track footage on track to learn the track and get to know the lines.

[GTSilver]

For me, the best advice I ever got from somebody regarding tracking a car was to go back to street tires for a few months. My first track car came with R1's already on it. An R compound tire raised the limits of the car to the point where when it would start to spin recovering from the spin was impossible at my skill level. My instructor told me to go back to street tires which I did which lowered the limits of the car greatly and I learned car control very quickly. I am a way better driver now because of this. 99% of professional instructors would agree with this. Yes, a beginner on slicks is going to turn faster lap times than street tires or Hoosiers, but he'll never learn car control.

True, and couldn't agree more. My plan for next year is to try to get into driving schools either Bondurant or anything similar in the states or in Europe. Driving on different tracks with different cars I think would help a lot and also focus on car control as well.

[GTSilver]

Have been instructing for 20+ years and in many cases I would agree with you , but whereas the car came with the Pirelli Corsas, I have no problem with him going to Pirelli slicks since I think they are more predictable and Corsas have no ability to switch side to side. The P Zero, on the other hand, is a great tire for learning and occasional track use , but my comment was based more on the fact that we do not know the skill level or experience of the driver , an assumption was just made. Sorry , we have no idea if he is a beginner and frankly at the speeds he was going he did not appear as such , but limited data to access. Lastly to say a beginner on slicks is never going to learn car control is again not really true, just an opinion. A lot of young drivers were thrown on them from day one and they definitely still learned car control.


I would love to get coaching from an experienced driver such as you Bill in the future if I travelled to the US. Do you recommend any schools to start with based on your experience or is it better to go with 1 on 1 coaching ?

Thanks
Yousif

[Bill Pemberton]

Yousif,

You have the perfect attitude , since realizing you have areas to improve in and want to get better is frankly the mark of a solid track student. Watching the first video of you in the Viper , though, made me think this was not the first time around the track in a quick car and the Caterham would be a super machine to learn in , since it is all momentum. Stepping up to the GT2 gave you a machine that demanded respect and also one that rewards smoothness. Your seating position in the car ( hands kept on the wheel , except when shifting), quick , smooth shifts , and solid work on heel and toe downshifting shows me you are definitely beyond the beginner stage. I will drop you a PM on some schools I recommend , as I don't want to load up this thread with that information.

But , next time you are out in the Viper , we need a 15-25 minute video, as it is cold here in the middle of the US and our track exploits are satisfied only by living vicariously with our Snakecharmer friends in warm climes that can play on tracks this time of year.

[GTSilver]

Yousif,

You have the perfect attitude , since realizing you have areas to improve in and want to get better is frankly the mark of a solid track student. Watching the first video of you in the Viper , though, made me think this was not the first time around the track in a quick car and the Caterham would be a super machine to learn in , since it is all momentum. Stepping up to the GT2 gave you a machine that demanded respect and also one that rewards smoothness. Your seating position in the car ( hands kept on the wheel , except when shifting), quick , smooth shifts , and solid work on heel and toe downshifting shows me you are definitely beyond the beginner stage. I will drop you a PM on some schools I recommend , as I don't want to load up this thread with that information.

But , next time you are out in the Viper , we need a 15-25 minute video, as it is cold here in the middle of the US and our track exploits are satisfied only by living vicariously with our Snakecharmer friends in warm climes that can play on tracks this time of year.

Bill I appreciate it thanks for the good word and yes I since my first time on track and watching videos of others on tracks all over the world got me hooked and to learn more and more also improve my driving skills. The Caterham was and still is one of the best cars I've driven on track very communicative and very great handing characteristics. My next track day is on the 7th of Jan and I'll get more footage on track both for me to asses and also for you guys to enjoy as well.

You may not remember but you got me steered to get the viper ta. As I called you as soon as the ACR was released last year to order one and if I want to buy it and export it i had to pay taxes and also keep it state side for a couple of months. This wasn't a viable option at the time and you recommended to look at the viper ta which at the time I didn't knew about. Thanks again for your great advise into steering me into a gen v viper and ta also.

Yousif

[Bill Pemberton]

Ha,ha ......next time I just need to steer you to get a used one from us, though. Congrats and welcome to the brotherhood of the Snake!

[Stealth78]

Awesome, definitely have a very nice straight on that track! Do you have stripes on your TA???

[GTSilver]

Ha,ha ......next time I just need to steer you to get a used one from us, though. Congrats and welcome to the brotherhood of the Snake!

You did and i wanted to buy one from you but didnt have a TA at the time. You never know maybe I upgrade to an ACR in the future.

[GTSilver]

Awesome, definitely have a very nice straight on that track! Do you have stripes on your TA???

Yeah a nice straight, it was a bit weird first time hard braking with the rear end wiggle on the viper with the speed I'm reaching but now I got used to it and yes I added matte black stripes as I always thought a viper coupe should have stripes. Here are some pics with the stripes;

21993

21994

[Bill Pemberton]

Those matte stripes really do look good on the car!

[Stealth78]

Right! Never in a million years would I have thought I would approve of stripes on a TA but that car looks amazing!

[GTSilver]

Those matte stripes really do look good on the car!


Right! Never in a million years would I have thought I would approve of stripes on a TA but that car looks amazing!

Thanks guys !!

[ViperGeorge]

Yeah a nice straight, it was a bit weird first time hard braking with the rear end wiggle on the viper with the speed I'm reaching but now I got used to it and yes I added matte black stripes as I always thought a viper coupe should have stripes. Here are some pics with the stripes;

21993

21994

You should think about changing the rear calipers to the Racing Brakes reduced bias ones (smaller pistons). I did the upgrade on my TA, unbelievable difference, no wiggle, brakes are much more confidence inspiring. Even though you are used to the wiggle in the rear I am sure it is subconsciously effecting your braking points. It did mine. Now I find I can go deeper into the braking zone and not worry about the rear end wagging all around. Easy change too. It completely changed the car for the better IMO.

[GTSilver]

You should think about changing the rear calipers to the Racing Brakes reduced bias ones (smaller pistons). I did the upgrade on my TA, unbelievable difference, no wiggle, brakes are much more confidence inspiring. Even though you are used to the wiggle in the rear I am sure it is subconsciously effecting your braking points. It did mine. Now I find I can go deeper into the braking zone and not worry about the rear end wagging all around. Easy change too. It completely changed the car for the better IMO.

I read your review and was about to order them based on your feedback but I want to try out the ACR CCB. I know the feedback against CCB that it won't last and I also experienced it in my 911. However the more I read about the newer CCB especially in the ZR1 and ACR I have found out that they are lasting longer than what CCB used to be. Tracking CCB would definatly reduce their lifetime and replacement will be imminent however the benefits of reducing rotating mass is significant and also consistent brake pedal and feel. I know they are still expensive but not as other marques and I want to try CCB again. I'll write a new thread with which brake setup I decide to go with in the future.

[ViperGeorge]

I read your review and was about to order them based on your feedback but I want to try out the ACR CCB. I know the feedback against CCB that it won't last and I also experienced it in my 911. However the more I read about the newer CCB especially in the ZR1 and ACR I have found out that they are lasting longer than what CCB used to be. Tracking CCB would definatly reduce their lifetime and replacement will be imminent however the benefits of reducing rotating mass is significant and also consistent brake pedal and feel. I know they are still expensive but not as other marques and I want to try CCB again. I'll write a new thread with which brake setup I decide to go with in the future.

I have heard from a good source that folks that are tracking their CCB equipped ACRs heavily are going through pads and rotors at a pretty good clip. I'm told at least two people have gone through several sets of front pads and a couple of sets of rears. Their rotors also appear to have developed irregularities (holes) which probably require replacement. That's a lot of $ in brake parts and that is for one season only. Even if I were to upgrade to an ACR someday I would go the other way. Either get one with the TA steel brakes or convert the CCBs to steel. In any case if you go with the CCBs please post your review, I'd be very interested in your feedback.

[Arizona Vipers]

Have been instructing for 20+ years and in many cases I would agree with you , but whereas the car came with the Pirelli Corsas, I have no problem with him going to Pirelli slicks since I think they are more predictable and Corsas have no ability to switch side to side. The P Zero, on the other hand, is a great tire for learning and occasional track use , but my comment was based more on the fact that we do not know the skill level or experience of the driver , an assumption was just made. Sorry , we have no idea if he is a beginner and frankly at the speeds he was going he did not appear as such , but limited data to access. Lastly to say a beginner on slicks is never going to learn car control is again not really true, just an opinion. A lot of young drivers were thrown on them from day one and they definitely still learned car control.

From the video I can tell he does not have a lot of experience. Especially with his passenger yelling at him non-stop and him braking way way way way way early on every turn. Again, I'd say 99% of instructors in the world would recommend he learn further on a street tire before switching to slicks. It was the best advice I ever got and would be nowhere the driver I am now if I learned on slicks. You can go to any driving school in the country and they will all be done on street tires.

[Arizona Vipers]

I have heard from a good source that folks that are tracking their CCB equipped ACRs heavily are going through pads and rotors at a pretty good clip. I'm told at least two people have gone through several sets of front pads and a couple of sets of rears. Their rotors also appear to have developed irregularities (holes) which probably require replacement. That's a lot of $ in brake parts and that is for one season only. Even if I were to upgrade to an ACR someday I would go the other way. Either get one with the TA steel brakes or convert the CCBs to steel. In any case if you go with the CCBs please post your review, I'd be very interested in your feedback.

There are several guys on here with thousands of track miles on their ACR's and never replaced a rotor. I've got 8 HEAVY track days on mine and haven't had to replace my pads yet, the aren't even half done. The performance of the ACR brakes after 8 track days were so impressive that I've ordered all the parts to convert my 2013 track car which is being done right now at Calvo Motorsports.

[sjeaglefan]

Love the video and very jealous you are driving at a current F1 track. Hopefully soon I will get mine to the Circuit of the America's in Austin.

I started tracking on P-Zeros and recently move to Corsas. You definitely learn the car. I will probably get a second set of wheels and buy some Hoosiers.

If you are going to be spending some serious time on the track, the one suggestion I have, outside of real car upgrades, it's a good video and telemetry system. I bought the AIM Smartycam and SoloDL. I live the quality and the data. The best part for me though is the predictive timing that is on the solo DL mounted on my dash. I can see you during my lap where I am making up or losing time real-time. The video quality is also exceptional in allows me to both see my track line as well as my hand and body movement.

This video was last February at the Viper Tracks 2 event at Chuckwalla raceway in Southern California


https://youtu.be/jbC4EIeMSEQ

Please post more from Bahrain and have fun/be safe...still jealous!

-Gary

[Dr.Ron]

May I ask what the "coach" was saying to you mostly? Was he basically telling you to get back on throttle?
Nice driving, and that track looks real nice also!

Ron

[GTSilver]

Love the video and very jealous you are driving at a current F1 track. Hopefully soon I will get mine to the Circuit of the America's in Austin.

I started tracking on P-Zeros and recently move to Corsas. You definitely learn the car. I will probably get a second set of wheels and buy some Hoosiers.

If you are going to be spending some serious time on the track, the one suggestion I have, outside of real car upgrades, it's a good video and telemetry system. I bought the AIM Smartycam and SoloDL. I live the quality and the data. The best part for me though is the predictive timing that is on the solo DL mounted on my dash. I can see you during my lap where I am making up or losing time real-time. The video quality is also exceptional in allows me to both see my track line as well as my hand and body movement.

This video was last February at the Viper Tracks 2 event at Chuckwalla raceway in Southern California


https://youtu.be/jbC4EIeMSEQ

Please post more from Bahrain and have fun/be safe...still jealous!

-Gary

Thank you for the Aim Solo and camera, I was actually considering a telemetry system as the vbox that I used to run can't be set with a camera. I'll be on track on the 7th of Jan and hopefully will get more footage and try to improve my driving. I'd love to drive in Cota as it's one my favourite tracks in F1 with Spa and Suzuka, one day hopefully.

My only issue is I don't know where to mount the camera in the viper I liked the angle you had in your video may you please tell me where it's mounted.

Thanks
Yousif

[GTSilver]

May I ask what the "coach" was saying to you mostly? Was he basically telling you to get back on throttle?
Nice driving, and that track looks real nice also!

Ron

He was a friend not a coach I wish I could get coaching in Bahrain.Sometimes with me focusing on driving I forgot to focus on the other things as braking points, lines etc so what he was telling me to brake at the 150 meter mark or add more throttle while unwinding the steering wheel. Pointers nothing much.

[sjeaglefan]

The mounting is very simple. You can order suction cup mounts that have the proper camera mounting's for both the camera and the solo. The camera itself was mounted upside down stuck to the rear hatch window. There is a setting on the camera that you can configure to work upside down properly. The suction cup mount I have are from Ram Mounts.

I ordered my complete kit from a driving instructor named Peter Krause ( i'm sure there are postings about him here and certainly over at the VCA). He configured the whole system for my viper and preloaded all of the tracks I plan to use. I'm not sure that it is practical for you being outside of the US but it is an option. If you want his contact information, I can forward it.

Gary

[ViperGeorge]

I use the VBOX video lite system with two cameras. Works well enough. The one thing I don't like about it is you have to know which tracks you will go to and load them into the VBOX. If the track you want isn't in their database then you have to use Google Earth to draw it and then upload it to the device. That's a real pain as their database is far from complete at least for tracks in the US. I would rather have them auto draw the track on the first lap with the GPS coordinates. I had an older system that did it this way and it worked well. Problem with the older system was that it was PC based and mounting a PC in the car was a real hassle. Bottom line is that if I had it to do over I would not buy the VBOX video system. I would only buy a system that auto drew the track map.

[GTSilver]

The mounting is very simple. You can order suction cup mounts that have the proper camera mounting's for both the camera and the solo. The camera itself was mounted upside down stuck to the rear hatch window. There is a setting on the camera that you can configure to work upside down properly. The suction cup mount I have are from Ram Mounts.

I ordered my complete kit from a driving instructor named Peter Krause ( i'm sure there are postings about him here and certainly over at the VCA). He configured the whole system for my viper and preloaded all of the tracks I plan to use. I'm not sure that it is practical for you being outside of the US but it is an option. If you want his contact information, I can forward it.

Gary

Thanks Gary for the info, I already have the Aim Solo but maybe mines the old version don't know if I need to get the new one to connect it to the Samrt camera. How did you connect it to read rpm and throttle /brake position is it through obd 2 port ?

Thanks
Yousif

[GTSilver]

I use the VBOX video lite system with two cameras. Works well enough. The one thing I don't like about it is you have to know which tracks you will go to and load them into the VBOX. If the track you want isn't in their database then you have to use Google Earth to draw it and then upload it to the device. That's a real pain as their database is far from complete at least for tracks in the US. I would rather have them auto draw the track on the first lap with the GPS coordinates. I had an older system that did it this way and it worked well. Problem with the older system was that it was PC based and mounting a PC in the car was a real hassle. Bottom line is that if I had it to do over I would not buy the VBOX video system. I would only buy a system that auto drew the track map.

I as well used to run vbox video lite but was hectic setting it up and I would rather have somethingbetter/newer for the viper as I have it in my 911.

[XSnake]

There are several guys on here with thousands of track miles on their ACR's and never replaced a rotor. I've got 8 HEAVY track days on mine and haven't had to replace my pads yet, the aren't even half done. The performance of the ACR brakes after 8 track days were so impressive that I've ordered all the parts to convert my 2013 track car which is being done right now at Calvo Motorsports.

If you are getting 8 days out of your pads you aren't going very fast.

[sjeaglefan]

I am using this SoloDL. I am not exactly sure the differences between the DL and the non-DL but mine has a connection to the OBD2 port as well as another connection for the camera. All of the car data is pulled directly from the OBD2 port.

If you watched my other videos on YouTube, you also probably noticed a big difference in the audio. I added an extranal microphone that connects to one of the cables coming off of the camera. That external microphone improved the in car audio versus the audio that was coming from the camera which was very muted

[Snorman]

If you are getting 8 days out of your pads you aren't going very fast.He's not getting 8 days out of his pads. After 8 days they "aren't even half done". Which means he'll probably get 10-12 days out of a single set of pads.
So yeah...wow.
S.