Pirelli slicks on viper ta

[GTSilver]

Track season just about started in our part of the world, yes I know guys you are going to hate me due to the winter weather you have now but its only for 4 months than after that its scorching hot in our part of the world.

So I took my ta last week to the track as its been a while since last season and I only drove it twice on track. This time I went with pirelli slicks and compare them with michelins which I usually run on my other car. Grip was superior everywhere and that reduced my previous lap time and really didn't notice any much of a difference between pirelli and michelins. However although I'm still enjoying tracking the car I still need to push the car more thats why I didn't see the benefits of slicks, after seeing the videos on track I can count many mistakes. Early braking points, hesitation on the throttle at corner entry and transition from throttle to braking and vice versa is slow. The reason for the early braking points is that I think that the brakes won't be sufficient to slow the car down. I know I should try to push it every time so I can know the limits of the brakes and that is what I'll do next track day in 2 weeks.

I'd love to hear your feedback on areas of where to improve etc. Again the car is on ta rotors with carbotech pads front and rear, pirelli slicks on sidewinder 2 wheels, heads and cam package and bbs headers and corsa exhaust.

Here is the video of the fastest lap that I got; please disregard the shouting from my passenger as he was giving me pointers on track.



Last thing for anyone that haven't tracked his viper on track you are missing out big time.

Thanks
Yousif

[Mclarengts]

Nice.. Wish I could get out there and race with you!!

[steve911]

What size Pirelli slicks are you running on your car?

[GTSilver]

What size Pirelli slicks are you running on your car?

305/660-18
325/705-19

[Arizona Vipers]

I would stop running slicks and get Hoosier R7's so you can learn the car. The slicks will provide grip way beyond your skill level and you will never learn the car.
Ideally, I'd even go through a few sets of street tires, then move on to R7's, then the Michelin/Pirelli slicks.
With the tires you have now, you will never even come close to sliding the car and learning how to control it at it's limits.

[Bill Pemberton]

Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

[GTSilver]

I would stop running slicks and get Hoosier R7's so you can learn the car. The slicks will provide grip way beyond your skill level and you will never learn the car.
Ideally, I'd even go through a few sets of street tires, then move on to R7's, then the Michelin/Pirelli slicks.
With the tires you have now, you will never even come close to sliding the car and learning how to control it at it's limits.

To be honest the reason i'm went with the slicks is that for the extra grip. Yes its not the right way to go but after trying them out I don't see myself going back to street tires on track.

Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

Thanks Bill, and yes I'm running the hard compound tires. I borrowed the camera from I friend as I forgot mine so thats the only footage I've got. But next track day I'll try to get more footage and try to work on my mistakes and push the car more and post it here.

[Bill Pemberton]

Great , I run the Pirelli slicks on one of my other cars and find them to be a very predictable race tire and no worries about pushing the car more, you were doing fine. I would just continue to work on your lines, getting acclimated to the car, etc. since you were doing a pretty darn good job out of the box. What other cars have you run in the past?

[Arizona Vipers]

Seriously, if he is already running on Pirelli slicks no need to go back and work with something else. There are a ton of us running Pirelli Slicks and in all likelihood he is on the Endurance Compound ( which is pretty close to a R 7 ) and frankly watching only 2 minutes not sure that gives any of us time to question his skill level. Looked to me like he was not exactly pussyfooting around the track and we have no idea what other cars he has run or had.

Set up works quite well, even though some would think the rears might be undersized , but that is what was being used in the rear for Snakes in the World Challenge Series.

PS - thanks for posting the video, a lot of us are only getting our track thrills by watching others this time of year.

For me, the best advice I ever got from somebody regarding tracking a car was to go back to street tires for a few months. My first track car came with R1's already on it. An R compound tire raised the limits of the car to the point where when it would start to spin recovering from the spin was impossible at my skill level. My instructor told me to go back to street tires which I did which lowered the limits of the car greatly and I learned car control very quickly. I am a way better driver now because of this. 99% of professional instructors would agree with this. Yes, a beginner on slicks is going to turn faster lap times than street tires or Hoosiers, but he'll never learn car control.

[Bill Pemberton]

Have been instructing for 20+ years and in many cases I would agree with you , but whereas the car came with the Pirelli Corsas, I have no problem with him going to Pirelli slicks since I think they are more predictable and Corsas have no ability to switch side to side. The P Zero, on the other hand, is a great tire for learning and occasional track use , but my comment was based more on the fact that we do not know the skill level or experience of the driver , an assumption was just made. Sorry , we have no idea if he is a beginner and frankly at the speeds he was going he did not appear as such , but limited data to access. Lastly to say a beginner on slicks is never going to learn car control is again not really true, just an opinion. A lot of young drivers were thrown on them from day one and they definitely still learned car control.

[GTSilver]

Great , I run the Pirelli slicks on one of my other cars and find them to be a very predictable race tire and no worries about pushing the car more, you were doing fine. I would just continue to work on your lines, getting acclimated to the car, etc. since you were doing a pretty darn good job out of the box. What other cars have you run in the past?

Yes this is what I'm trying to achieve as this is my 3rd time on track and still learning the car and would like to get as many track days as possible with the car so I can improve my lines and driving. I have driven both Caterham R400 if you know the car a small British car and my 911 gt2 for a couple of years.

I don't see myself as a really great driver but I'm improving year on year as its a learning experience every time on track.

Here is another 2 laps in my 911 :



The issue here in our part of the world is motorsports is a new thing to us, the first racetrack is 12 years old not like in Europe or in the USA. So in terms of track knowledge or coaching is close to none here and getting coaching is very expensive due to flights, accommodation etc so what I usually do is look at track footage on track to learn the track and get to know the lines.

[GTSilver]

For me, the best advice I ever got from somebody regarding tracking a car was to go back to street tires for a few months. My first track car came with R1's already on it. An R compound tire raised the limits of the car to the point where when it would start to spin recovering from the spin was impossible at my skill level. My instructor told me to go back to street tires which I did which lowered the limits of the car greatly and I learned car control very quickly. I am a way better driver now because of this. 99% of professional instructors would agree with this. Yes, a beginner on slicks is going to turn faster lap times than street tires or Hoosiers, but he'll never learn car control.

True, and couldn't agree more. My plan for next year is to try to get into driving schools either Bondurant or anything similar in the states or in Europe. Driving on different tracks with different cars I think would help a lot and also focus on car control as well.

[GTSilver]

Have been instructing for 20+ years and in many cases I would agree with you , but whereas the car came with the Pirelli Corsas, I have no problem with him going to Pirelli slicks since I think they are more predictable and Corsas have no ability to switch side to side. The P Zero, on the other hand, is a great tire for learning and occasional track use , but my comment was based more on the fact that we do not know the skill level or experience of the driver , an assumption was just made. Sorry , we have no idea if he is a beginner and frankly at the speeds he was going he did not appear as such , but limited data to access. Lastly to say a beginner on slicks is never going to learn car control is again not really true, just an opinion. A lot of young drivers were thrown on them from day one and they definitely still learned car control.

I would love to get coaching from an experienced driver such as you Bill in the future if I travelled to the US. Do you recommend any schools to start with based on your experience or is it better to go with 1 on 1 coaching ?

Thanks
Yousif

[Bill Pemberton]

Yousif,

You have the perfect attitude , since realizing you have areas to improve in and want to get better is frankly the mark of a solid track student. Watching the first video of you in the Viper , though, made me think this was not the first time around the track in a quick car and the Caterham would be a super machine to learn in , since it is all momentum. Stepping up to the GT2 gave you a machine that demanded respect and also one that rewards smoothness. Your seating position in the car ( hands kept on the wheel , except when shifting), quick , smooth shifts , and solid work on heel and toe downshifting shows me you are definitely beyond the beginner stage. I will drop you a PM on some schools I recommend , as I don't want to load up this thread with that information.

But , next time you are out in the Viper , we need a 15-25 minute video, as it is cold here in the middle of the US and our track exploits are satisfied only by living vicariously with our Snakecharmer friends in warm climes that can play on tracks this time of year.

[GTSilver]

Yousif,

You have the perfect attitude , since realizing you have areas to improve in and want to get better is frankly the mark of a solid track student. Watching the first video of you in the Viper , though, made me think this was not the first time around the track in a quick car and the Caterham would be a super machine to learn in , since it is all momentum. Stepping up to the GT2 gave you a machine that demanded respect and also one that rewards smoothness. Your seating position in the car ( hands kept on the wheel , except when shifting), quick , smooth shifts , and solid work on heel and toe downshifting shows me you are definitely beyond the beginner stage. I will drop you a PM on some schools I recommend , as I don't want to load up this thread with that information.

But , next time you are out in the Viper , we need a 15-25 minute video, as it is cold here in the middle of the US and our track exploits are satisfied only by living vicariously with our Snakecharmer friends in warm climes that can play on tracks this time of year.

Bill I appreciate it thanks for the good word and yes I since my first time on track and watching videos of others on tracks all over the world got me hooked and to learn more and more also improve my driving skills. The Caterham was and still is one of the best cars I've driven on track very communicative and very great handing characteristics. My next track day is on the 7th of Jan and I'll get more footage on track both for me to asses and also for you guys to enjoy as well.

You may not remember but you got me steered to get the viper ta. As I called you as soon as the ACR was released last year to order one and if I want to buy it and export it i had to pay taxes and also keep it state side for a couple of months. This wasn't a viable option at the time and you recommended to look at the viper ta which at the time I didn't knew about. Thanks again for your great advise into steering me into a gen v viper and ta also.

Yousif

[Bill Pemberton]

Ha,ha ......next time I just need to steer you to get a used one from us, though. Congrats and welcome to the brotherhood of the Snake!

[Stealth78]

Awesome, definitely have a very nice straight on that track! Do you have stripes on your TA???

[GTSilver]

Ha,ha ......next time I just need to steer you to get a used one from us, though. Congrats and welcome to the brotherhood of the Snake!

You did and i wanted to buy one from you but didnt have a TA at the time. You never know maybe I upgrade to an ACR in the future.

[GTSilver]

Awesome, definitely have a very nice straight on that track! Do you have stripes on your TA???

Yeah a nice straight, it was a bit weird first time hard braking with the rear end wiggle on the viper with the speed I'm reaching but now I got used to it and yes I added matte black stripes as I always thought a viper coupe should have stripes. Here are some pics with the stripes;

Screen Shot 2016-12-30 at 3.11.12 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2016-12-30 at 3.16.33 AM.jpg

[Bill Pemberton]

Those matte stripes really do look good on the car!

[Stealth78]

Right! Never in a million years would I have thought I would approve of stripes on a TA but that car looks amazing!

[GTSilver]

Those matte stripes really do look good on the car!

Right! Never in a million years would I have thought I would approve of stripes on a TA but that car looks amazing!

Thanks guys !!

[ViperGeorge]

Yeah a nice straight, it was a bit weird first time hard braking with the rear end wiggle on the viper with the speed I'm reaching but now I got used to it and yes I added matte black stripes as I always thought a viper coupe should have stripes. Here are some pics with the stripes;

Screen Shot 2016-12-30 at 3.11.12 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2016-12-30 at 3.16.33 AM.jpg

You should think about changing the rear calipers to the Racing Brakes reduced bias ones (smaller pistons). I did the upgrade on my TA, unbelievable difference, no wiggle, brakes are much more confidence inspiring. Even though you are used to the wiggle in the rear I am sure it is subconsciously effecting your braking points. It did mine. Now I find I can go deeper into the braking zone and not worry about the rear end wagging all around. Easy change too. It completely changed the car for the better IMO.

[GTSilver]

You should think about changing the rear calipers to the Racing Brakes reduced bias ones (smaller pistons). I did the upgrade on my TA, unbelievable difference, no wiggle, brakes are much more confidence inspiring. Even though you are used to the wiggle in the rear I am sure it is subconsciously effecting your braking points. It did mine. Now I find I can go deeper into the braking zone and not worry about the rear end wagging all around. Easy change too. It completely changed the car for the better IMO.

I read your review and was about to order them based on your feedback but I want to try out the ACR CCB. I know the feedback against CCB that it won't last and I also experienced it in my 911. However the more I read about the newer CCB especially in the ZR1 and ACR I have found out that they are lasting longer than what CCB used to be. Tracking CCB would definatly reduce their lifetime and replacement will be imminent however the benefits of reducing rotating mass is significant and also consistent brake pedal and feel. I know they are still expensive but not as other marques and I want to try CCB again. I'll write a new thread with which brake setup I decide to go with in the future.

[ViperGeorge]

I read your review and was about to order them based on your feedback but I want to try out the ACR CCB. I know the feedback against CCB that it won't last and I also experienced it in my 911. However the more I read about the newer CCB especially in the ZR1 and ACR I have found out that they are lasting longer than what CCB used to be. Tracking CCB would definatly reduce their lifetime and replacement will be imminent however the benefits of reducing rotating mass is significant and also consistent brake pedal and feel. I know they are still expensive but not as other marques and I want to try CCB again. I'll write a new thread with which brake setup I decide to go with in the future.

I have heard from a good source that folks that are tracking their CCB equipped ACRs heavily are going through pads and rotors at a pretty good clip. I'm told at least two people have gone through several sets of front pads and a couple of sets of rears. Their rotors also appear to have developed irregularities (holes) which probably require replacement. That's a lot of $ in brake parts and that is for one season only. Even if I were to upgrade to an ACR someday I would go the other way. Either get one with the TA steel brakes or convert the CCBs to steel. In any case if you go with the CCBs please post your review, I'd be very interested in your feedback.