Gen V engine issues. Question for those that have had one.

[BJG32]

Curious if anybody else has had this issue and if it went down like this...

I have 2014 GTS. Changed the oil at 500 miles. Currently 3500 on the clock.

I was sitting at a stop light today and the car just dies. I try and restart and it just flashes the dash lights quick and makes a feeble attempt to start. I try about 5 times and the same thing. A guy helps me roll it to the a parking lot. I make another attempt to start but the car sounds awful. squeaking (not belt...like metal) and engine knocking. 5 minutes before this I was at the gas station and happened to check oil levels. Color and level was good. I spun a bearing on my 2004 last year and this sounds exactly the same.

Anybody have this happen? Could it be something else? .... I am prepared for the spun bearing news, but just not sure how that could have happened??? zero missed shifts just driving normal down a 45 mph roll. Car literally died after being at stop for 15 seconds and no signs of noises or knocking before it died.

Only thing altered is hi-flow cats.

If it does end up needing a rebuild does anyone know if Dodge would cover shipping to Woodhouse? I am sure Dodge will want it done right the first time. Also, anybody have an issue with a warranty claim denial for something catastrophic?

Thanks in advance for any guidance....

[swexlin]

Wow, what is with the engine problems on the Gen 5s? Not good. I don't think Dodge will pay shipping costs to Woodhouse, but Atlas on here (check out his thread currently running in his forum) did just that, at his own expense. So your oil level was good? I would say have it flatbedded to your local trusted Viper tech, get it diagnosed. Good luck and please keep us posted.

This is now the third active engine issue thread going on in this section at the moment.

[BJG32]

After last year, I said will never own a viper not under warranty. My motto again reinforced! Oil level was good. Just took a photo. Changed 3000 miles ago and no burn off or additions made.

13333 13333

[swexlin]

Ok, so not caused by low oil levels. Please keep us posted what they find. You will most likely be getting a new engine. I read today that Hyundai is recalling thousands of cars due to a "stalling" issue, which of course is a safety issue, because it is a family car. Those engines may be replaced. I don't think Dodge will do that with our cars.

Sorry to hear of this, and keep on Corporate to keep thing moving.

[BJG32]

I will. Not sure why the car wouldn't fire up? It was like the battery died. Then it turns over and catastrophic failure? I am not suprised only because of what i have been reading. Viper gods are working very hard make me go away!

[ViperJon]

Good God yet another one. My sympathies. Please keep us posted.

[ViperRT98]

You stated you were at a gas station 5 minutes prior... Did you get gas their??? Could be bad gas which is causing this issue...

[Nemesis]

Sounds similar to my experience when mine went. Spun rod bearings 7 & 8.. New engine, they don't rebuild them.

[Jack B]

Probably different, but, in my DD, I filled up, started the car and it died, 10 gal of water.



You stated you were at a gas station 5 minutes prior... Did you get gas their??? Could be bad gas which is causing this issue...

[Atlas]

Wow I am sorry to hear this. I am one of the cars right now with a similar engine issue. I shipped mine out last week to Woodhouse. I don't usually put much stock in things like this, but what a odd last couple weeks with a few of us. How many more are there that don't come on forums? Weird.

[swexlin]

Wow I am sorry to hear this. I am one of the cars right now with a similar engine issue. I shipped mine out last week to Woodhouse. I don't usually put much stock in things like this, but what a odd last couple weeks with a few of us. How many more are there that don't come on forums? Weird.

Yes, quite concerning.

[ViperSmith]

I'd be really curious to know the build order for the ones having these issues. Most seem to be 2014's that have the rod bearing issue. But then I could be wrong.

[BJG32]

Sounds similar to my experience when mine went. Spun rod bearings 7 & 8.. New engine, they don't rebuild them.

Thats good news. I'll take a new engine over rebuild.

[Lawrenzo]

You should have trusted your instincts based upon one of your earlier posts. Sorry for your troubles. While I miss my Gen V a ton, I certainly don't miss all the trips to the dealership and down time:p0273:


"Insane the amount of problems I read about on this car. I hope I am one of the lucky ones that can enjoy mine more than its in the shop. My Gen III was a POS money vacuum. I was hoping they'd get it right 11 years later."

[BJG32]

You should have trusted your instincts based upon one of your earlier posts. Sorry for your troubles. While I miss my Gen V a ton, I certainly don't miss all the trips to the dealership and down time:p0273:


"Insane the amount of problems I read about on this car. I hope I am one of the lucky ones that can enjoy mine more than its in the shop. My Gen III was a POS money vacuum. I was hoping they'd get it right 11 years later."

Yes sir! I remember saying that! I have never been 100% confident since last year and jumped on a great deal...but I repeat that i will never own a viper that is not under warranty....Ever!. Its an amazing car when its not catastrophically failing. Viper is on its last straw with me....one more failure and i'll find another car to be a fan of.

[Jdmuscle]

I'm very saddened by this.. Maybe you can post more details on your car such as build date etc that could potentially help people isolate this (if possible)

[Space Truckin]

Bizarre is all I can think of right now, all I ever did was change the oil/ filter and "drive them like I stole em". The first four generations were damn near bullet proof. These issues are very concerning when you factor the mileage on the cars when the failures are occurring :eek:

[1.8t]

Do we even know what happened or is everyone just assuming catastrophic engine failure? Seems like we might need to get the facts from a proper evaluation before passing judgement.

[Mag-Yum]

Just dropped off my 13 GTS for engine noise. Sounded like the passenger side valve train was running bone dry. Could hear it through the fire wall. I told them I want a new engine if there anything wrong with it at only 8k miles. Tech said there is something wrong and that they emailed Chrysler. Chrysler's reply was to pull the valve covers and check something. There's a TSB about this possible problem. Anyone else know about this particular Tech Serv Bulletin?

Oh and this too! I told the Tech while dropping off my Viper that my 14 Jeep SRT has stuck lifters as well and has had that issue since about 7k miles. The original dealer did shit and ignored what I told them to check. Said everything seemed fine. Back then I was clear that I wanted the complaint documented so that when the engine takes a shit, I can document the complaint with Chrysler reps. I was able to free them more or less with seafoam mixed in at EVERY oil change. Performance is also down the toilet since the cam is taking a beating! Want that fixed too and told the SRT certified dealer tech I dropped the Viper off at that it next.

[Rapidrezults]

BJG,

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles.

Just curious, would you classify yourself as an aggressive driver? Do you ever recall missing shifts, and/or over-revving the engine? I know it's probably a no...but figured I'd ask.

[Jdmuscle]

Missing a shift and revving the engine to redline here and there shouldn't cause an engine failure. Bouncing off the redline for a sustained period of time would cause any engine to fail and im sure most if not all viper owners are mature enough not to disrespect the car with such behavior.

Very keen on knowing what the diagnosis returns with for reported behavior here.. All I can think of is... Can we compile all the build dates for these failed engines to see if there is a pattern.

[viperdriver5150]

Yes sir! I remember saying that! I have never been 100% confident since last year and jumped on a great deal...but I repeat that i will never own a viper that is not under warranty....Ever!. Its an amazing car when its not catastrophically failing. Viper is on its last straw with me....one more failure and i'll find another car to be a fan of.

I said the same thing when I bought my new 2013 GTS in December of 14'. I figured, what are the chances mine would blow up, it's just a couple right. I didn't get 2 miles and my Viper experience was over. My personal count is up to 23 now in motors failing in Gen V's and you can be damn sure it's more than that...

[Jdmuscle]

5150, do you have details on the 23 failures you are talking about? Any patterns to note? Such as build dates, maintenance details, modifications, type of failure etc?

[Rapidrezults]

Missing a shift and revving the engine to redline here and there shouldn't cause an engine failure. Bouncing off the redline for a sustained period of time would cause any engine to fail and im sure most if not all viper owners are mature enough not to disrespect the car with such behavior.

Very keen on knowing what the diagnosis returns with for reported behavior here.. All I can think of is... Can we compile all the build dates for these failed engines to see if there is a pattern.

I agree, an occasional over-rev or missed shift shouldn't cause a problem, just trying to capture as much info as possible to document any trends in driving habits. I don't have enough experience with the V10 to know if they are sensitive to any particular rev conditions. I know some of my track rat buddies driving Gen II's are very concerned with missed shifts and over-revving with the V10. I highly doubt this has any correlation though.

[Jdmuscle]

I'm not very experienced with these powerplants as well. Did have a friend that had a 99 GTS that missed shifts all the time but this was on regular street driving and not track duty.

Anything you can collect from your buddies towards what their concerns were? The bottom ends are essentially the same since gen 1 from what've gathered so far.

[Viper vince]

There have been many engine issues with the Gen 5 . They changed suppliers and have found particles in the oil of the engines that have blown up. The particles take put the bearings and next thing you know engine goes south. Think about this one how many people have bought these cars and don't put many miles on them each year . Next thing you know you are out of coverage and you have a bad engine. What about the unsold 2014s with the bad supplier how many are out there?

[viperdriver5150]

Of the 23 I know of, 1 had low oil due to misreading the stick but within the guidelines. The others were all stock as far as I know, all under 5000 miles. Many knocking stories, some just failed at a random point, like parking it after a Sunday drive and the next time out getting a catastrophic code. I have seen it on the 2013 launch editions, SRT's, GTS, TA and SRT's and GTS in the 2014 model year. I have not heard of one 2015 yet.

Also remember, the forum is a small percentage of people, I am sure there are many others. Of the 23 I know about, 3 were cars never mentioned on this site.

[Jack B]

A missed shift where you hit the limiter is not the issue, the problem is when you are in 3rd, miss fourth and end up in 2nd. The oem G1/2 valve train was the limitation it would float above the limiter ceiling. The Gen 4/5 is far easier to shift with the twin disk/6060 combination, plus, the valve train can easily be pushed to 6800, as shown by a large number of hpt tuned cars.



I agree, an occasional over-rev or missed shift shouldn't cause a problem, just trying to capture as much info as possible to document any trends in driving habits. I don't have enough experience with the V10 to know if they are sensitive to any particular rev conditions. I know some of my track rat buddies driving Gen II's are very concerned with missed shifts and over-revving with the V10. I highly doubt this has any correlation though.

[Jdmuscle]

Thanks for the info 5150... Seems like the issue is with all the 13s and 14s with no particular build dates etc. have they identified the faulty supplier and the part and rectified it with a better part or is this all a speculation about the faulty part etc?

[Jdmuscle]

A missed shift where you hit the limiter is not the issue, the problem is when you are in 3rd, miss fourth and end up in 2nd. The oem G1/2 valve train was the limitation it would float above the limiter ceiling. The Gen 4/5 is far easier to shift with the twin disk/6060 combination, plus, the valve train can easily be pushed to 6800, as shown by a large number of hpt tuned cars.

That's good info... So Jack, what's your take on the failures?

[Newport Viper]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3887067/zorro-s-epic-facepalm-o.gif

[Jack B]

So far the G5 issues have been low oil or debris in the engine that remained after machining. The low oil issue is exacerbated by a dipstick that is hard to read, if you read the wrong side, there could be a two quart difference from actual. None of the posted failures so far have been linked to racing, it seems to be the opposite, those that are tracked hold up very well. My comment above was directed at the G1/G2, they were bullet-proof to a point. When they failed it was typically owner related. The valve train was a weak spot as was the early oil pans and oil starvation issues on the track.

If I had not checked the oil in my G5, the car could have been one of those failures. It used oil early on, however, the engine now consumes very little if any oil. Forged pistons and low tension rings are an issue for all manufacturers. Some manufacturers actaully spell it out that the engine will always consume oil. What is strange is that there are no signs that the engine burns oil, perhaps it is the cats that hide that fact.

This post recent post (7.5 qts low in 500 miles) is missing something, the details just do not add up.



That's good info... So Jack, what's your take on the failures?

[viper04]

WOW! this is not good. As anyone come to a consensus what is happening to some of these motors?

[BJG32]

I will keep everyone informed. We did a "spirited" cruise the day before. Some fast acceleration and twisties but nothing the car shouldn't be able to handle. No missed shifts. A few red lines, but again nothing odd. This car is an early 2014 model. Not sure how i find exact build date. Car had 25 miles when i bought it. From there i did the proper break in period and changed oil at 500 miles.

This is not a confirmed spun bearing, but my gen 3 spun 3 times last year before they got it right. I know the sound well. I'd bet the farm this engine is f@$%ed.

[Darius]

If you're just idling and the motor dies most likely it's some sort of electrical problem. Could be something mechanical but highly unlikely . If you were under power wot and shit hit the fan well then you know it's something internal.

[Mark1107]

[QUOTE=Jack B;167537]So far the G5 issues have been low oil or debris in the engine that remained after machining. The low oil issue is exacerbated by a dipstick that is hard to read, if you read the wrong side, there could be a two quart difference from actual. "

Its concerning to me.

[donk_316]

The lambo - Audi v10 also eats oil due to inherent design of forged high rpm large displacement.

I still think a lot of this is seriously over blown.

Still no actual evidence of anything except people saying they heard something or "know a guy".

No internal Arrow Racing Engine reports
No feedback from dealership on why they replaced an engine.

You guys babying the engines and not knowing how to check oil levels is the issue.

[FLATOUT]

Thanks for the info 5150... Seems like the issue is with all the 13s and 14s with no particular build dates etc. have they identified the faulty supplier and the part and rectified it with a better part or is this all a speculation about the faulty part etc?

Yes and mid 14 on the issues were resolved. A couple different issues that were addressed which is why the failures seem random.

[ViperJon]

The lambo - Audi v10 also eats oil due to inherent design of forged high rpm large displacement.

I still think a lot of this is seriously over blown.

Still no actual evidence of anything except people saying they heard something or "know a guy".

No internal Arrow Racing Engine reports
No feedback from dealership on why they replaced an engine.

You guys babying the engines and not knowing how to check oil levels is the issue.

Yes....lets ignore the dozens of known cases where the oil levels were checked by owners and found to be fine.
Or they drove the car breaking it in the way the MANUFACTURER recommends.
Dork_316 redefining the face palm. Not easy to post that much stupidity so succinctly.

[swexlin]

Let's wait to see what the diagnoses is here. But 3 active threads on here at the moment is a bit disconcerting.

[Jdmuscle]

Yes....lets ignore the dozens of known cases where the oil levels were checked by owners and found to be fine.
Or they drove the car breaking it in the way the MANUFACTURER recommends.
Dork_316 redefining the face palm. Not easy to post that much stupidity so succinctly.

Everyone seems to talk about the breakin habits.. How many of these were broken in per the manufacturer's recommendations? There are cars out there running hard and make a ton more power over OE levels with no sign of failures. Should they be driven like they are stolen right out of the box to have no failures?

As for reading the dipstick.. One side has a small area that says 'safe' or something like that.. When I checked mine.. It was in that area. I didn't check to see if there is a reading on the other side.

[Jdmuscle]

Yes and mid 14 on the issues were resolved. A couple different issues that were addressed which is why the failures seem random.

Hi Andy.. Any details on the fixes?

[Simms]

Let me ask this. Let's say you received an engine that had the debris/machining issue. If you changed the oil right away from the factory (there was an old thread discussing the need to do this, dye and color was also discussed) AND you are very dillegant about changing your oil, what's the odds of still having a failure? This assumes you keep your level where you should be.

[BJG32]

Let me ask this. Let's say you received an engine that had the debris/machining issue. If you changed the oil right away from the factory (there was an old thread discussing the need to do this, dye and color was also discussed) AND you are very dillegant about changing your oil, what's the odds of still having a failure? This assumes you keep your level where you should be.

It almost seems like 1 oil change is not enough. Maybe 2 or 3 before 1000 miles will help flush the system? I changed my oil at 500 miles.

Calling a local dealer now to get the process started...i'll report what they find when i know

[donk_316]

Yes....lets ignore the dozens of known cases where the oil levels were checked by owners and found to be fine.
Or they drove the car breaking it in the way the MANUFACTURER recommends.
Dork_316 redefining the face palm. Not easy to post that much stupidity so succinctly.

Please provide documentation of the "dozen of known cases". If you can't, it's all typical discussion board hearsay.
If you believe all that then the face palm, is all yours.

[FLATOUT]

Hi Andy.. Any details on the fixes?

Two were supplier related issues that were corrected, and you'll see on the 2016's a different drivers side valve cover breather routing position. This will only make a difference in on track situations and don't really effect street driven cars. The track guys that have seen a little oil on their air filters are what that 2016 fix is addressing.

I you have an issue you will get a brand new 2016 replacement motor if it's covered under warranty.

[Stealth78]

One thing that is driving me crazy is all the people blaming this off of hitting the rev limiter... Are you serious??? The only people that say this must be the people that truly do not understand what these cars are built for. I'm not saying that you should be intentionally trying to bounce off of the limiter all the time but trust me, the limiter is set where it is for good reasons. Occasionally bumping the limiter is definitely not the cause of engine failures!!!!!

[Jdmuscle]

Two were supplier related issues that were corrected, and you'll see on the 2016's a different drivers side valve cover breather routing position. This will only make a difference in on track situations and don't really effect street driven cars. The track guys that have seen a little oil on their air filters are what that 2016 fix is addressing.

I you have an issue you will get a brand new 2016 replacement motor if it's covered under warranty.

Thanks Andy.. I haven't even fully broken in my motor but now debating if I should follow the recommendations by Dodge.

[ACRucrazy]

Yes and mid 14 on the issues were resolved. A couple different issues that were addressed which is why the failures seem random.

The issues were?

EDIT: NM I see your post on this page.


Two were supplier related issues that were corrected, and you'll see on the 2016's a different drivers side valve cover breather routing position. This will only make a difference in on track situations and don't really effect street driven cars. The track guys that have seen a little oil on their air filters are what that 2016 fix is addressing.

I you have an issue you will get a brand new 2016 replacement motor if it's covered under warranty.

[Jack B]

Sorry, but, that post reminds me of a "Chicken Little" comment. Unless you can substantiate your claims, keep them to yourself. If you can substantiate that post we all want that info and I will apologize.




Yes....lets ignore the dozens of known cases where the oil levels were checked by owners and found to be fine.
Or they drove the car breaking it in the way the MANUFACTURER recommends.
Dork_316 redefining the face palm. Not easy to post that much stupidity so succinctly.

[Terminator02]

Should there be any cause for concer for members with 2015 vipers? To my knowledge there are no reports but was there anything different with the builds?

[Jdmuscle]

Should there be any cause for concer for members with 2015 vipers? To my knowledge there are no reports but was there anything different with the builds?

Per the feedback I'm getting... Is 15 MY owners should be fine. But then again are there enough of them out there to draw a conclusion? I read in another board that they might've only produced about 500 cars for 15 MY.

[AZTVR]

Everyone seems to talk about the breakin habits.. How many of these were broken in per the manufacturer's recommendations? There are cars out there running hard and make a ton more power over OE levels with no sign of failures. Should they be driven like they are stolen right out of the box to have no failures?.


I haven't even fully broken in my motor but now debating if I should follow the recommendations by Dodge.

Just remember that the break in period is also for breaking in the differential and transmission which had no break-in at all, unlike the engine which was run for some time at Arrow.

[FLATOUT]

Should there be any cause for concer for members with 2015 vipers? To my knowledge there are no reports but was there anything different with the builds?

We have not seen any engine failures in 15's so far here at ViperExchange. Mine now has 6,000 miles on it with the heads and cam package and it's running great.

[Jdmuscle]

Just remember that the break in period is also for breaking in the differential and transmission which had no break-in at all, unlike the engine which was run for some time at Arrow.

Yup.. Taking them into consideration as well. When I had a TRD diff installed in my Supra I had to do some figure eights in both directions etc to properly break it in and some simple procedures with the Tilton clutch. So I'm well aware of the other parts that need a proper break in as well. But generally the focus is on the motor... Given that they are revved to redline at the factory and I've followed the book properly so far and it has about 370 miles on it.

[Jdmuscle]

We have not seen any engine failures in 15's so far here at ViperExchange. Mine now has 6,000 miles on it with the heads and cam package and it's running great.

That's very good to hear!! So the time when the factory was down last year due to slow sales they had figured out the issues and applied them when they resumed production? Is that a safe assumption?

[FLATOUT]

That's very good to hear!! So the time when the factory was down last year due to slow sales they had figured out the issues and applied them when they resumed production? Is that a safe assumption?

No prior to that.

[AZTVR]

One thing that is driving me crazy is all the people blaming this off of hitting the rev limite

I couldn't find a single post in this thread that blames the engine failures on hitting the rev limiter. One post talks about bouncing continuously off the red-line; but, goes on to say that he doesn't think that is the issue here. The other posts are all addressing an mechanical over rev condition caused by a mis-shift from something like 3rd to 2nd when 3rd to 4th was intended. There is no rev limiter that would prevent over rev in that situation. However, I don't think anyone thinks that is what happened in these cases since no engine failure victim has mentioned that situation.

[Coloviper]

Sure looks like those cars with 8,000 to 20,000 miles are going to be worth a lot more considering there is little chance those motors will blow now. If a known problem with debris, then change oil and filter, run a few miles with a magnet on the new filter, change oil/filter and run a few more miles with magnet on new filter. Three changes like this should leave basically nothing in there if debris related. Cheap insurance if concerned on that front.

Obviously something went awry in process somewhere. Highly doubt it is hitting the rev limiter or that avenue as the cause. Has to be a bad batch of internals and sensors causing issues. It is the only thing making sense.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I would sooner have a dipstick as opposed to an idiot light. One I can trust, the other not so much. A lot of these new vehicles just use oil. Hell the Twin Turbos eat oil in my Cayennes. First few times, they were way down and no light came on to warn. Three (3) quarts low a couple of times for crying out loud. Never made that mistake again and check the dipstick religiously. They use up about a quart every 1,250 miles and have since new. I have 78,000 miles on one and 119,000 miles on the other. Just keep on it and keep them topped off. No burning, no smells, etc. Just the way it is with them.

The programming in the Viper must look for something to be met for what it considers seated and broken it. Could mean different miles on each motor to get to that point.

Funny as the old school ways still apply. Use to be, you ran 500 miles on factory oil and changed it and then 2,500 miles on the next one, then changed it. At that point you could get into regular routine. Then the factory started coming out with this no change BS and special break in oil, you had to keep in there for a long period, yet it is a manufactured product and debris can be an issue still. I am turning 42 next month but there is something to be said for trusted old school ways. So much BS in todays world and products.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

My cousin Tommy believes in taking a brand new car off the delivery truck before it goes to any dealer prep and running to redline in each gear right off the bat. He has always done this and had good luck with all of his cars and never blew one of them up, but he has not had a Gen 5 Viper. It would be interesting to see how one would hold up with him owning it. Maybe all the extra little shavings would break up and disintegrate during his break in, who knows. I told him about breaking mine in according to proper procedure and he promptly gave me his speech about how to break in a car and said he would not have a car if it would not take it.

[ViperSmith]

This really is just all anecdotal evidence one way or the other. Arrow runs the engines hard when they test them. The break in is more for the drivetrain parts, as stated before by SRT.

[commandomatt]

My cousin Tommy believes in taking a brand new car off the delivery truck before it goes to any dealer prep and running to redline in each gear right off the bat. He has always done this and had good luck with all of his cars and never blew one of them up, but he has not had a Gen 5 Viper. It would be interesting to see how one would hold up with him owning it. Maybe all the extra little shavings would break up and disintegrate during his break in, who knows. I told him about breaking mine in according to proper procedure and he promptly gave me his speech about how to break in a car and said he would not have a car if it would not take it.

Your cousin Tommy was played by Kid Rock in Joe Dirt....right ?

[zee]

What's the highest mileage 13/14 that had the engine failure? Highest I've read is 8,000 miles reported on a 2013 by another member here.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

Your cousin Tommy was played by Kid Rock in Joe Dirt....right ?
I will have to watch that movie, but it would take a lot equal Tommy. He is 68 going on 16. He tools around in a supercharged Miata these days.

[Simms]

What's the highest mileage 13/14 that had the engine failure? Highest I've read is 8,000 miles reported on a 2013 by another member here.

I was wondering the same. That seems fairly high for a debris issue no?

[Jack B]

A metal shaving that is partially attached could fall any time





I was wondering the same. That seems fairly high for a debris issue no?

[Jack B]

The exception is the rings, if they do not seal in the first 100 miles, they could take another 2000 miles. That was the case with my car.

What is diff about these cars, is that there is no overt sign of oil consumption, except the dipstick.

I pulled my plugs at 1000 miles and knew two cylinders were using oil. Somewhere around 3000 miles, the rings had sealed.

The only problem I have with SRT, is why do some cars take so long for the rings to seal, is it the dyno?



This really is just all anecdotal evidence one way or the other. Arrow runs the engines hard when they test them. The break in is more for the drivetrain parts, as stated before by SRT.

[ACRucrazy]

I pulled my plugs at 1000 mules and knew two cylinders were using oil. Somewhere around 3000 miles, the rings had sealed.

I feel like that is good advice for anyone wondering about oil consumption on their new Gen V.

[Simms]

A metal shaving that is partially attached could fall any time

True. I just bought my first oil filter cutter. IMO, another cheap possible way to check what's going on.

[F2V]

I had similar problem as OP back in DEC '13, at 500 miles after first oil change. Turned out there were metal shavings on inside of oil pump cover, caused during milling which missed inspection, that got caught up in the oil pressure relief valve, which in turn caused very low oil pressure that led to my symptoms. Anyway, caught it very quickly in time before serious damage was done. Car has run without problem since at 5800 miles.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/1185-My-G5-Problem

[ViperJon]

So multiple oil changes is a good idea in the first few thousand miles?
Although several guys here have stated their oil levels were perfectly fine when engine failed.

[ViperSmith]

So multiple oil changes is a good idea in the first few thousand miles?
Although several guys here have stated their oil levels were perfectly fine when engine failed.

I think there were a few that had oil issues. But if these are rod bearing issues that occur because of some manufacturing defect, all the oil changes in the world won't fix it. Just wait and see.

[BJG32]

UPDATE: Confirmed Spun bearing on #8. Waiting to hear why they think it happened.

Owners: Please note that I followed all break in and maintenance by the book....including an oil change at 541 miles. This was not enough to keep me from spinning a bearing.

I highly advise 2013 -2014 owners make sure they put at least 10,000 miles on their cars before warranty expires or better yet buy an extended warranty. Make sure you have a dealer change your oil at recommended intervals, so all possibilities of failure are on them. I would not change your own oil while under warranty. I'd even snap a photo of oil levels every time you check it, just for time stamped proof.

I spun a bearing on my 2004 last year and have been meticulous about maintaining this new viper. It really sucks this is not enough to keep the original engine in the car. Now i'll have a blem'd car fax report = decreased resale value. I guess I can fight this and demand a new car, but how long will that take and do I have any chance of winning that fight? Any incite on this? Anyone out there successful at getting a new car?

No need to flame me for being "over protective" if you think I am blowing this out of proportion. Take my advice or don't. Please keep the negative comments to yourself.

[ViperSmith]

While annoying BJG32, look at the bright side. This is a known issue and it is now behind you. You'll have an engine which isn't from the "bad" batch.

Sucks, and I wouldn't be happy, but it could be worse! Any timeline for you yet when it will be replaced?

[swexlin]

UPDATE: Confirmed Spun bearing on #8. Waiting to hear why they think it happened.

Owners: Please note that I followed all break in and maintenance by the book....including an oil change at 541 miles. This was not enough to keep me from spinning a bearing.

I highly advise 2013 -2014 owners make sure they put at least 10,000 miles on their cars before warranty expires or better yet buy an extended warranty. Make sure you have a dealer change your oil at recommended intervals, so all possibilities of failure are on them. I would not change your own oil while under warranty. I'd even snap a photo of oil levels every time you check it, just for time stamped proof.

I spun a bearing on my 2004 last year and have been meticulous about maintaining this new viper. It really sucks this is not enough to keep the original engine in the car. Now i'll have a blem'd car fax report = decreased resale value. I guess I can fight this and demand a new car, but how long will that take and do I have any chance of winning that fight? Any incite on this? Anyone out there successful at getting a new car?

No need to flame me for being "over protective" if you think I am blowing this out of proportion. Take my advice or don't. Please keep the negative comments to yourself.

Thank you for the update. One reason why I have all service done by dealer during the warranty period. In fact, I just made my appointment today to go in end of next week for PA Inspection and oil change and service. Please keep us posted, and let us know how it goes.

[slitherv10]

And the dealers defect causes your loss in depreciation...hmm...not something I would fancy that's for sure. You bring your car in in the future as a trade in and the same car with similar miles etc comes in as well and guess who's getting more dineros. Yet when its time for them to pony up they fail to see it that way.

[BJG32]

While annoying BJG32, look at the bright side. This is a known issue and it is now behind you. You'll have an engine which isn't from the "bad" batch.

Sucks, and I wouldn't be happy, but it could be worse! Any timeline for you yet when it will be replaced?

No time line yet. They are submitting photos and documentation for engine approval. I'll press for more answers next time we speak.

And I agree....I am not mad about it. Just disappointed to be gong through this again. It's really tough to brag about owning a viper when it has now become the butt of jokes among friends. As long as Dodge takes care of me and I get a new engine I'll be fine. Once approval is given the hard part is over.

Low mileage 13-14 owners aware of the issue have to hold their breath every drive. That's not very fun. What kind of anxiety are owners going to have when that warranty is set to expire and they still have low mileage?

Just sucks knowing we're going to have to read several more of these stories and there is nothing we can do to keep it from happening.

[ViperSmith]

Hyundai just recalled 470,000 Sonatas for engine replacements due to shavings in the crankshaft. It would be nice if Dodge could narrow down the cars that have had these issues and find a range of cars that were impacted.

[Jack B]

I feel for you and hope all works out. However, your inclusion of not wanting negative comments shows that you know how poorly you constructed this email. I could politely address it line by line, but, I will leave that up to the forum.

It really bothers me that you are trying to mislead the group. Btw, I just took a pic of my stick.




Thank you for the update. One reason why I have all service done by dealer during the warranty period. In fact, I just made my appointment today to go in end of next week for PA Inspection and oil change and service. Please keep us posted, and let us know how it goes.

[ViperDC]

So once you get past a certain mileage range on a 13-14 are you "in the clear" ?

[swexlin]

Hyundai just recalled 470,000 Sonatas for engine replacements due to shavings in the crankshaft. It would be nice if Dodge could narrow down the cars that have had these issues and find a range of cars that were impacted.

Yep, I mentioned this in another thread. But since the Viper is not a politically correct family car, ain't gonna happen.

[swexlin]

So once you get past a certain mileage range on a 13-14 are you "in the clear" ?

That's the big question for us, yes.

[BJG32]

I feel for you and hope all works out. However, your inclusion of not wanting negative comments shows that you know how poorly you constructed this email. I could politely address it line by line, but, I will leave that up to the forum.

It really bothers me that you are trying to mislead the group. Btw, I just took a pic of my stick.

If you are talking to me. I am all for mature criticism of my "email". I just don't need the "this bullshit is blown out of proportion" comments with no value added to the thread.

I'd love to know how you think I am misleading the group....if indeed you are talking to me. You quoted another member so I am officially confused by your comment.

[BJG32]

It really bothers me that you are trying to mislead the group. Btw, I just took a pic of my stick.

It really bothers me that you think anyone here is "TRYING" to mislead anyone. Most comments I have seen have been very helpful and supportive. If you you think my advice is bogus, do please tell me why, but don't assume I am "trying" to mislead anyone here. I am outlining my experience in hopes that it will help others that will come across this now and later.

Sorry if my email is poorly constructed. You must understand I had a $140k machine blow up for no fault of my own after dealing with the same thing last year....which wasn't under warranty. Sorry if my head is not clear, but PLEASE don't publicly assume i am intentionally misleading anyone here.

[Boba Fett]

Damn! Not something Im used to reading over here...Good Luck with entire situation BJG

[BJG32]

So once you get past a certain mileage range on a 13-14 are you "in the clear" ?

Pure assumption, but I would think that if you can get to 10k miles most of the shavings that may have caused a problem will have worked their way out of the system. 10k miles is by no means safe I guess.....just seems like your odds are better. I believe all documented engines blown have been at or under 8k miles. Using my car for example. If I took 6 years to put 3500 miles on my car, the engine would have blown out of warranty.

That's my theory. I am no expert, but that is how I feel you can increase your odds of not replacing a blown engine on your dime.


But also understand there are not many cars out there with more than 10k miles or so, so maybe I am just full of shit with my thoughts. Maybe these cars can still blow up from shavings over 10k miles. Nobody knows...

[Stealth]

OP: Glad that the remedial process has commenced! At the very least your motor will be either thoroughly examined and repaired or you will receive a new motor. A gratis extended warranty would also be nice.

From what I have seen on the net boards, these engine issues are not very frequent and aside from the rare negligent operation exception, are really just luck of the draw. My '08 Gen IV was bullet proof. I purchased my '14 GTS new with 80 miles and it has run like a champ for 5,200mi. so far. My oil was changed at 800mi. and then at 2,800mil and 4,900 mi. after I did one day of HPDE in each instance. The car has never used a drop of oil.

One good pattern so far is that Dodge seems to be very accommodating to the owners' who have had issues. That is to be commended and is not a given for all manufacturers.

Good luck for a speedy recovery!

[BJG32]

OP: Glad that the remedial process has commenced! At the very least your motor will be either thoroughly examined and repaired or you will receive a new motor. A gratis extended warranty would also be nice.

From what I have seen on the net boards, these engine issues are not very frequent and aside from the rare negligent operation exception, are really just luck of the draw. My '08 Gen IV was bullet proof. I purchased my '14 GTS new with 80 miles and it has run like a champ for 5,200mi. so far. My oil was changed at 800mi. and then at 2,800mil and 4,900 mi. after I did one day of HPDE in each instance. The car has never used a drop of oil.

One good pattern so far is that Dodge seems to be very accommodating to the owners' who have had issues. That is to be commended and is not a given for all manufacturers.

Good luck for a speedy recovery!

Good points. Many people have luck with their vipers....all generations. I have been one of the unlucky ones. My perception is very skewed. Hard facts of total number of cars that blew an engine, production date, reason, and mileage would be invaluable to the conversation here! Only Dodge knows that though... I'm just a frustrated viper fan and any car I would consider replacing the viper with is out of my price range....

[Jack B]

No one is going to win here:

1. You have a legit problem, deal with it, when they do not stand by their warranty, start a thread that is based on the truth.

2. If you paid $140K, that is your problem.

3. A new engine is not going to affect your resale.

4. Take pictures of the dipstick??????

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.

6. I have not been affected, however, it appears SRT has treated everyone fairly when the failure was obvious. They have actually replaced engines when the problem was low oil, no matter how you slice it and misconstrue the need for a serious owner to check the oil, it is the owners responsibility.

What has happened to the affected parties is not good, nor are the half truths and biased threads started because one feels offended, your email that I responded to, is full of half truths and misrepresentations.




It really bothers me that you think anyone here is "TRYING" to mislead anyone. Most comments I have seen have been very helpful and supportive. If you you think my advice is bogus, do please tell me why, but don't assume I am "trying" to mislead anyone here. I am outlining my experience in hopes that it will help others that will come across this now and later.

Sorry if my email is poorly constructed. You must understand I had a $140k machine blow up for no fault of my own after dealing with the same thing last year....which wasn't under warranty. Sorry if my head is not clear, but PLEASE don't publicly assume i am intentionally misleading anyone here.

[Jack B]

No one is going to win here:

1. You have a legit problem, deal with it, when they do not stand by their warranty, start a thread that is based on the truth.

2. If you paid $140K, that is your problem.

3. A new engine is not going to affect your resale.

4. Take pictures of the dipstick??????

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.

6. I have not been affected, however, it appears SRT has treated everyone fairly when the failure was obvious. They have actually replaced engines when the problem was low oil, no matter how you slice it and misconstrue the need for a serious owner to check the oil, it is the owners responsibility.

What has happened to the affected parties is not good, nor are the half truths and biased threads started because one feels offended, your email that I responded to, is full of half truths and misrepresentations.




It really bothers me that you think anyone here is "TRYING" to mislead anyone. Most comments I have seen have been very helpful and supportive. If you you think my advice is bogus, do please tell me why, but don't assume I am "trying" to mislead anyone here. I am outlining my experience in hopes that it will help others that will come across this now and later.

Sorry if my email is poorly constructed. You must understand I had a $140k machine blow up for no fault of my own after dealing with the same thing last year....which wasn't under warranty. Sorry if my head is not clear, but PLEASE don't publicly assume i am intentionally misleading anyone here.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I change my own oil and keep the receipts for the oil and filter and write the date and miles on the receipt. If I have a blown engine and any manufacturer attempts to deny a warranty claim because I do my own service, they just put themselves into a legal situation. I also keep my old filter just in case it needs to be cut apart to check for any evidence of shavings, etc. I would rather do it myself since I had my wife's car done and got it home and it was smoking. It was 2 quarts overfilled. I took it back and the mechanic denied he did it when the owner of the station walked in and asked what was going on, he actually told him I did it??? What a jerk wad.

[ViperRT98]

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.


You may not want to challenge that... He is right... If you get your oil changed outside of the dealer you are risking your manufacturer warranty. In most states your auto insurance will not cover it either under negligent servicing...

When you're doing your own oil changes under manufacturer warranty you're doing it at your own risk..

[Jack B]

It is illegal for a dealer to indicate they must change the oil. Maybe Mark J or Andy can elaborate. What you are saying is that 90% of new cars on the road are not warrantied. That was the point of my response, half truths lead to more half truths.


5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.


You may not want to challenge that... He is right... If you get your oil changed outside of the dealer you are risking your manufacturer warranty. In most states your auto insurance will not cover it either under negligent servicing...

[Jack B]

The last time I had a dealer change the oil, the filter leaked on the way home, that was a Mazda.


I change my own oil and keep the receipts for the oil and filter and write the date and miles on the receipt. If I have a blown engine and any manufacturer attempts to deny a warranty claim because I do my own service, they just put themselves into a legal situation. I also keep my old filter just in case it needs to be cut apart to check for any evidence of shavings, etc. I would rather do it myself since I had my wife's car done and got it home and it was smoking. It was 2 quarts overfilled. I took it back and the mechanic denied he did it when the owner of the station walked in and asked what was going on, he actually told him I did it??? What a jerk wad.

[ViperRT98]

You can test the waters if you like however in my career I deal with this on a daily basis...

[Terminator02]

No one is going to win here:

1. You have a legit problem, deal with it, when they do not stand by their warranty, start a thread that is based on the truth.

2. If you paid $140K, that is your problem.

3. A new engine is not going to affect your resale.

4. Take pictures of the dipstick??????

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.

6. I have not been affected, however, it appears SRT has treated everyone fairly when the failure was obvious. They have actually replaced engines when the problem was low oil, no matter how you slice it and misconstrue the need for a serious owner to check the oil, it is the owners responsibility.

What has happened to the affected parties is not good, nor are the half truths and biased threads started because one feels offended, your email that I responded to, is full of half truths and misrepresentations.


I agree with your points but the first one on price. It sounds condescending as if the poster shouldn't have paid the price. He wasn't complaining of price, rather just stating he is frustrated with having to contend with these problems with a luxury sports car that is typically over 100k.

[ViperSmith]

You can test the waters if you like however in my career I deal with this on a daily basis...

Changing your own oil will not I invalidate a factory warranty, that is absolutely preposterous.

[ViperRT98]

If the warranty work is related around the oil yes it can...

[Jack B]

My point was, the price paid is between him and the dealer, it does not enter into the equation. If you have a ligit claim, the car's cost should not enter into the issue. If someone paid 20K or a car and could not afford do get it fixed, is his problem any less important. What if I paid $80K today for a SRT, am I less important.





[1. You have a legit problem, deal with it, when they do not stand by their warranty, start a thread that is based on the truth.

2. If you paid $140K, that is your problem.

3. A new engine is not going to affect your resale.

4. Take pictures of the dipstick??????

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.

6. I have not been affected, however, it appears SRT has treated everyone fairly when the failure was obvious. They have actually replaced engines when the problem was low oil, no matter how you slice it and misconstrue the need for a serious owner to check the oil, it is the owners responsibility.

What has happened to the affected parties is not good, nor are the half truths and biased threads started because one feels offended, your email that I responded to, is full of half truths and misrepresentations. If your threads are due to lack of knowledge and not being vindictive, I apologize.
rtant to that individual.




I agree with your points but the first one on price. It sounds condescending as if the poster shouldn't have paid the price. He wasn't complaining of price, rather just stating he is frustrated with having to contend with these problems with a luxury sports car that is typically over 100k.

[Terminator02]

Good point Jack.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

If the warranty work is related around the oil yes it can...

I am not trying to be the devil's advocate here, but I would like for you to provide an example of when a warranty claim has been denied relating to an oil change not done by a dealer when the owner has documentation of mileage, date, receipts of oil and filter. I would be more concerned that a dealer made the oil change mistake in my experience. If according to your comments that the claim is due to an improper oil change that the dealer performed, then who becomes responsible, the dealer or the manufacturer? Based on your comments, you are either in the legal profession or the automotive profession since you seem to have experience with this particular situation. I look forward to hearing your comments.

[Zybane]

lol @ people who think oil changes must be done at a dealer to cover warranty claims..

Changing oil at the dealer is more apt to lead to problems than not.

[ViperSmith]

If the warranty work is related around the oil yes it can...

If you are talking about replacing your engine oil with Canola Oil, I'd agree with you.

[ViperSmith]

I am not trying to be the devil's advocate here, but I would like for you to provide an example of when a warranty claim has been denied relating to an oil change not done by a dealer when the owner has documentation of mileage, date, receipts of oil and filter. I would be more concerned that a dealer made the oil change mistake in my experience. If according to your comments that the claim is due to an improper oil change that the dealer performed, then who becomes responsible, the dealer or the manufacturer? Based on your comments, you are either in the legal profession or the automotive profession since you seem to have experience with this particular situation. I look forward to hearing your comments.

I for one would love to see a case presented that someone safely - and correctly changed their oil and a warranty claim was denied.

[Atlas]

You guys are misleading a lot who do not know so we should stick to the facts. The below is right from the FTC government website. So please stop saying your car must be serviced at a dealer. In fact, almost every car I've own recently their is a statement in the paperwork regarding exactly this

"If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual."

[Jack B]

Thank You, misinformation hurts us all. There was actually a lawsuit in Ohio, where dealers had to post the statement below.



You guys are misleading a lot who do not know so we should stick to the facts. The below is right from the FTC government website. So please stop saying your car must be serviced at a dealer. In fact, almost every car I've own recently their is a statement in the paperwork regarding exactly this

"If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual."

[viperdriver5150]

I say cut some slack here. The owner is stressed out, and I know all too well what he is feeling. Thank god they bought my car back.

For the people that say value is not affected, I could not disagree more. In my cars case, it had 6 miles so seeing it had a new motor installed would not be so concerning. Take his car with several thousand miles, if I did a car check and saw it had a new motor I would pass on it in a heartbeat. How the hell do I know how he was treating it. Also, when I was looking for mine, there were 3 dealers selling Vipers with 80 to 300 miles on them with replaced motors. The prices on these cars were discounted 10k off the other prices as they knew they would be tough sells.

I thought, wow these are great prices until I contacted them and all 3 responded to me by email, and they were not too quick to disclose that information. Surprise, surprise.

[ViperRT98]

You guys are misleading a lot who do not know so we should stick to the facts. The below is right from the FTC government website. So please stop saying your car must be serviced at a dealer. In fact, almost every car I've own recently their is a statement in the paperwork regarding exactly this

"If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual."

The dealer can say that your oil change that you did your self caused the damages... This is under negligent servicing and no manufacturer or insurance company will cover negligent servicing... so if you want to challenge this some more we can I could bring up the case law if needed....

Majority of the time most people would never have this issue... I feel horrible for anyone that purchased a new car and has any type of issues whether he was negligent or not... like I said I have dealt with this before and I deal with issues like this on a daily basis due to my career I am in...

[Atlas]

I don't need to challenge anything, I'm just stating what the truth is. I posted exactly what the law is regarding routine service work not being required to happen with a dealer. No dealer can deny your warranty because you don't service your car there. Whether you service it elsewhere and something happens because of negligence are two different topics completely so what exactly are you talking about? You're comparing an apple and orange here

[BJG32]

Let me preface my response to you with an exert from an email I got from the dealer.

"I talked with Curtis and he had a question. Who might of changed the oil last and how many miles ago? It appears to only have about two to three quarts of oil in it. We will do everything we can under Chrysler guidelines."

Now let me respond to your numbered points.

1) Ok. Feel free to not follow this one. Some people out there care to know what I think. I understand you don't.

2) Moot point, but MSRP on my car as it stands now would be ~$140k. I did not pay close that, but who cares? Doesn't change the sticker price. Kind of an unnecessary jab and man who's down if you ask me.

3) Do classic cars and none matching numbers decrease in value? This car will be a classic one day. Also if I am selling my car privately a good percentage of buyers will run from what the car fax will read. All else equal they will go with a car with a clean record. When they see mine automatically they assume "abused". Less buyers interested in my specific car equals less money. Trade in may be another story, but I always sell privately.

4) See email quote above. My dipstick read "safe" when checked at manufacturer recommended conditions. Dealer says I only have 2-3 qts of oil in the car??? You can bet I am glad I have that photo documenting oil level. Just in case. We all have cell phones on us at all time. takes 5 seconds to snap and document a photo. Why not do it? Doesn't hurt. Yes it will be overkill for "98%" of the lucky owners, but I bet all owners that took a snap shot of the "safe" oil level will be glad they did a few miles before the engine blows due to low oil. It's a lot of piece of mind if the engine fails.

5) I never said the dealer has to do your oil for a valid warranty claim.... But again see email above. Dealer is asking who did my oil change and when? I am missing 80% of my oil. You have no idea the relief I had answering that question with documentation that a dodge dealer did the change and not me. Why is he asking who did it if it doesn't matter? If I did the change they could easily say I botched the job...they have the car....what proof do I have that I didn't botch it? Hopefully they wouldn't do that, but when talking about a ~$30k engine, this is certainly not something I personally would want to risk happening. If your engine blows due to low oil would you rather tell them you did the last change yourself or a dodge dealer did it?

6)I did and do check my oil according to the manual. Viper engineers say fully warm car that has been allowed to sit for 5 minutes. I did that and got a "safe" reading literally 5 minutes before the damage. Dealer says I am 80% low. I am extremely confused.

I feel a lot of what I said was taken out of context. Unfortunately we are all not in a room together having an intelligent discussions so a lot is lost in translation. Owners of all levels have valuable experiences and knowledge to share. Forums always seem to have "know-it-all" who tries to demean/embarrass less experienced owners. Happens all the time and it takes a lot of the enjoyment and value out of the forums for people trying to learn and contribute. Your response is very minor compared to many I've read, but I am sure you will agree you could have responded in more respectful way. You will never find me accusing someone "trying to mislead" or LOLing someone that doesn't exactly know what they are talking about. It creates a hostile environment where people feel like they can't share thoughts out of fear of the no-it-alls ridiculing them or replying in a condescending way. I see and enjoy your posts on the forums. You know a lot more than I in general on Vipers, but I have now lived through 2 viper spun bearings. I do have knowledge and my own thoughts some people will find valuable.


No one is going to win here:

1. You have a legit problem, deal with it, when they do not stand by their warranty, start a thread that is based on the truth.

2. If you paid $140K, that is your problem.

3. A new engine is not going to affect your resale.

4. Take pictures of the dipstick??????

5. The dealer does not have to do your oil changes and to suggest such is wrong and misleading.

6. I have not been affected, however, it appears SRT has treated everyone fairly when the failure was obvious. They have actually replaced engines when the problem was low oil, no matter how you slice it and misconstrue the need for a serious owner to check the oil, it is the owners responsibility.

What has happened to the affected parties is not good, nor are the half truths and biased threads started because one feels offended, your email that I responded to, is full of half truths and misrepresentations.

[BJG32]

The dealer can say that your oil change that you did your self caused the damages... This is under negligent servicing and no manufacturer or insurance company will cover negligent servicing... so if you want to challenge this some more we can I could bring up the case law if needed....

Majority of the time most people would never have this issue... I feel horrible for anyone that purchased a new car and has any type of issues whether he was negligent or not... like I said I have dealt with this before and I deal with issues like this on a daily basis due to my career I am in...

Having the dealer change your oil rules you out of the equation. If you engine blows due to low oil, you don't want to be a possible reason it happened. If the dealer is honest yes, you will have no issue. If they are crooked it is their word against yours.....and they have the car. It's an insurance policy and it's not that hard to check their work. Not only that we are all human and all perfectly capable of botching a simple oil change.

[viperdriver5150]

Heck, my nephew had a new VW Jetta and brought it in for its first oil change per VW guidelines. He drove it home 30+ miles and the next morning he went out to the garage and all of the oil was on the floor. They never tightened the drain nut. That was a VW dealer mind you.

[BJG32]

Heck, my nephew had a new VW Jetta and brought it in for its first oil change per VW guidelines. He drove it home 30+ miles and the next morning he went out to the garage and all of the oil was on the floor. They never tightened the drain nut.

Dealers are not flawless. Always check their work...

You'll catch a dealer error before you catch your own! 2 sets of eyes.

[Rapidrezults]

Let me preface my response to you with an exert from an email I got from the dealer.


6)I did and do check my oil according to the manual. Viper engineers say fully warm car that has been allowed to sit for 5 minutes. I did that and got a "safe" reading literally 5 minutes before the damage. Dealer says I am 80% low. I am extremely confused.

I feel a lot of what I said was taken out of context. Unfortunately we are all not in a room together having an intelligent discussions so a lot is lost in translation. Owners of all levels have valuable experiences and knowledge to share. Forums always seem to have "know-it-all" who tries to demean/embarrass less experienced owners. Happens all the time and it takes a lot of the enjoyment and value out of the forums for people trying to learn and contribute. Your response is very minor compared to many I've read, but I am sure you will agree you could have responded in more respectful way. You will never find me accusing someone "trying to mislead" or LOLing someone that doesn't exactly know what they are talking about. It creates a hostile environment where people feel like they can't share thoughts out of fear of the no-it-alls ridiculing them or replying in a condescending way. I see and enjoy your posts on the forums. You know a lot more than I in general on Vipers, but I have now lived through 2 viper spun bearings. I do have knowledge and my own thoughts some people will find valuable.

Wow, that oil discrepancy is very strange. ^^^^^ and you nailed it on this. That know-it-all is on all forums. Everyone knows "that guy" in real life, and he's always the guy you never want to be around. There is a tact and diplomacy that should come with communicating a superior level of intelligence on a topic. Unfortunately, this personality type does not usually understand or realize this. At the end of the day this behavior is disruptive to the essence of a forum's purpose, as you stated.

Oh, and thanks for keeping us updated through your process. This is valuable information.

[Stealth]

Free advice from an attorney and fellow Viper owner: take this offline and deal directly with the dealer. If you subsequently, for any reason, need to go direct to SRT/Dodge/FCA, then check back for the best contact. Little good will come of continuing to debate the matter here. There are assumptions and inaccuracies in nearly every post in this thread and this thread will not get you back on the road.

As noted above, best wishes for a speedy and acceptable resolution.

[donk_316]

Most definitely a changed engine will affect resale value. Either for the stigma of "having problems" or for the reason that the engine simply isn't the original one.

[Atlas]

[QUOTE=BJG32;168066]Let me preface my response to you with an exert from an email I got from the dealer.

"I talked with Curtis and he had a question. Who might of changed the oil last and how many miles ago? It appears to only have about two to three quarts of oil in it. We will do everything we can under Chrysler guidelines."



If you have any of the same issues I am currently dealing with, the oil could well have been perfect after the change. My story is as follows. I bought my car with 2,5xx miles. Drove it home 4xx miles. Once home I checked the oil, 2,9xx miles. Level was perfect(yes, I know how to check oil). There was no reason for me assume anything would be wrong considering I just drove 400+ miles and consumed no oil. Drove the car alot more than I normally would in the first 6 weeks so at 4,3xx miles engine starts knocking. I immediately checked my oil and dip stick was bone dry. I bought 3 quarts of oil, and it was only on the bottom of the stick. Added a 4th quart to bring it up. So in 1400 miles, 4 quarts of oil vanished into thin air. No smoke, not a drop on my garage floor or under the car. Even if I checked my oil every fuel fill up, what would that have done for me? I went through a quart of oil every 350 miles. All of I would have done by filling it was prolong the inevitable. I have built enough engines to tell you rings are not seating at 4300 miles. So although I am bummed I am without the best car I have ever owned during the nicest part of the seasons where I live, it is what it is. I shipped it to Woodhouse and I know it will be handled. Like I have said in previous posts, it would be nice to have a digital stick I can view on the dash in the viper. I have been constantly checking the oil in my Range Rover and Audi S5 this way almost daily now hahaha.

[Coloviper]

Mechanical/hydraulic parts and drivetrain ALWAYS require inspection on any equipment. As nice as an electronic dipstick sounds or a low oil level light, it is still meaningless. Physical/visual inspection is still required for real piece of mind.

The amount of oil consumption during break in appears to be very excessive but this is a high performance hot rod machine and we do not know the programming and what FCA expects in those early miles. There is no replacement for old school common sense IMHO. A lot of people view the auto as an appliance today. It is not and requires some responsibility on the owner as well.

I feel for you owners in this situation as it really sucks. It is a new car and I would be just as upset as you are if in this position. Life happens though and FCA will do what is right to correct it. There is little they can do on lost value. Resale of anything after the fact is too variable and out of their hands. If the car appreciated, would you send the difference back to FCA at sale. I don't think so.

Like some suggested, let FCA deal with it. The dealer email could just be documenting everything at the request of FCA because that is their policy, you do not know if there is a problem yet or at all. No good can come from it while in the process.

I don't know anyone personally who is having these issues and I know a lot of GEN V owners but I will say I do know a few Viper owners who are less than reputable or honest and just destroy vehicles (all manufacturers) and go back after the manufacturers. Sorry but nobody has that bad of luck. Remember that FCA has to deal with fraudulent cases as well. Not saying any of these in this forum are fraudulent because I don't know, nor have an opinion, just saying that FCA does get fraudulent situations to deal with and must look at everything in an investigation. If nothing was done wrong, then nothing to worry about.

Hope these things get resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Reading these forums is interesting but would not stop me from buying a new or used GEN V. A new one, I follow my old school common sense. A used vehicle, there is always a buyer beware so you have to do your due diligence and check it over. Still old school common sense.

I will get off my soap box now.

[BJG32]

I'm checking out on this thread. Happy to answer any PM's from concerned owners, but this thread has tailed off to an area I did not intend for it to go and it's just adding stress to the situation.

Thanks for all the great owners that have shown support and sent me some very helpful PM's and messages in this thread. Anybody who has PM'd me I will let you know the final resolution after this all plays out.

[Atlas]

Hope these things get resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Reading these forums is interesting but would not stop me from buying a new or used GEN V.
I will get off my soap box now.[/QUOTE]



Totally agree, even with my bad luck, I love this car! There is nothing like it on the road and I am not that upset. Resale and all, it's no real big deal. Stuff happens, it's mechanical whether it's 20k or 120k, things fail. I would buy the car again tomorrow knowing the same info. Man, just thinking about how sexy that car is right now makes me want two! I wish the OP best of luck.

[ViperJon]

Mechanical/hydraulic parts and drivetrain ALWAYS require inspection on any equipment. As nice as an electronic dipstick sounds or a low oil level light, it is still meaningless. Physical/visual inspection is still required for real piece of mind.

OBVIOUSLY a low oil level indicator or "electronic" dipstick would be in conjunction with a conventional one.
Redundancy...oh wait maybe replacing motors would be more cost effective.

[Coloviper]

OBVIOUSLY a low oil level indicator or "electronic" dipstick would be in conjunction with a conventional one.
Redundancy...oh wait maybe replacing motors would be more cost effective.

No not obviously (where you are going with that curt response)! There are plenty of new vehicles out there where they do not even have a gauge for oil pressure nor temp or whatever. I can't remember the car model or manufacturer off hand but it is new and does NOT even have a dipstick in either the tranny nor the engine as it has idiot lights and warnings on a computer screen when limits are met (No it is not a Tesla I am talking about or other electric/hybrid)

Automation is cool and techy, hey I get it. Hell I make a living off of Automation, SCADA, Instrumentation, Controls, IT and OT Enterprise and have for almost 20 years as a BSEE, PE in Industrial Energy. Just because you can, does not mean you should. A few projects in the jungles of Brazil or Mountains of Chile conditions to the fact of the KISS principle real, real quick. In the end, these large Industrial Energy sites and equipment still run hard-wired Safety Instrumented Systems and hard-wired Emergency Shutdown schemes. Sorry but there is no replacement for common sense. You should only take electronics so far when speaking of critical infrastructure aspects. Then again there is also a place for increased automation. My team is currently working on a large SCADA project that encompasses 2/3rds of California customers in Oil & Gas. Not a place to go to primitive either.

So load up the electronics for the infotainment and engine tuning but if the car has fluids in it, sorry I would sooner check that with an old fashion "fool proof" dump dipstick or tank liquid level indicator window. Maybe I am a dinosaur, maybe not. I am driving the last one. Ha! Ha! You can keep your fancy electronics in those areas. But it is America and everyone can have their opinion.

[ViperSmith]

Oil changed, tech also put in dye. We'll see where it goes in 1000 miles.

[ViperSmith]

And as an aside, only at an American car dealership would you find "double wide" chairs in the waiting room

http://i.imgur.com/y5esxtYl.jpg

[ViperJon]

And as an aside, only at an American car dealership would you find "double wide" chairs in the waiting room

http://i.imgur.com/y5esxtYl.jpg

That's where the guys sit who are worried about the three pound hood pad slowing them down.

[cayenne]

And as an aside, only at an American car dealership would you find "double wide" chairs in the waiting room

http://i.imgur.com/y5esxtYl.jpg

I know those chairs, I got to sit in the "single wide" though!

[ViperSmith]

I know those chairs, I got to sit in the "single wide" though!

Ha, chatted with Dick about your orange beast for a few.

[swexlin]

Oil changed, tech also put in dye. We'll see where it goes in 1000 miles.

Did you note the level when you got home? As a benchmark.

[ViperSmith]

Did you note the level when you got home? As a benchmark.


i'll check in the AM once it cools and settles over night.