Track Day Temps

[Victorydodge]

I recently had the first opportunity to get the Gen V out on the track at Michigans Grattan Raceway. Overall I was impressed my the car and felt much more confident than I ever did in the Gen IV. However I had one concern, it was fairly warm that day (temps averaging around 85) and the after 6-7 laps the car would be reading temps of 236-240, once ever as high as 242. What are most of you seeing for temps when really pushing the car hard at the track?

For further info-

the car had 1900 miles on it at the time
the oil had been freshly changed and was at the top full mark
the coolant level was perfect
on the street the car never gets even remotely warm

[VENOM V]

That is higher than I have seen at that ambient temp, I am surprised. I've tracked my Viper many times at many different tracks (probably 15+ track days, lost count), often in the 90s and hotter. The first really hot track event was 107 F ambient. Car never touched 240 F, maybe I hit 235 F. The next really hot event I ran slicks in 106 F ambient, and was driving harder than before, and I briefly touched 240 F. I backed off a lap, then hit it hard again and never touched 240 F.

This car is the coolest running track car I have ever run.

According to Erich Heushle, keep it under 245 F and you're ok. However, I don't want to run any higher than 240 F.

Perhaps double check that your coolant and oil are at their max level. Vipers consume oil at the track.

[BLUETA#1]

If you drive hard, the car easily hits 240 on a warm day. I have managed to lower the temp about 5 degrees so far. I am making another modification for an event in 3 weeks…then a third modification for the week after. IF these work, I will post all the details.

[FLATOUT]

If you drive hard, the car easily hits 240 on a warm day. I have managed to lower the temp about 5 degrees so far. I am making another modification for an event in 3 weeks…then a third modification for the week after. IF these work, I will post all the details.

I have also tracked my gen V's many time and NEVER saw elevated temps like you guys are seeing. This is the exception not the norm. I would check the coolant system for air pockets.

[BLUETA#1]

I have also tracked my gen V's many time and NEVER saw elevated temps like you guys are seeing. This is the exception not the norm. I would check the coolant system for air pockets.

You are not talking to enough people. I have a little private network of 6 owners who track and we go back and forth on ideas. If you are driving hard, its the norm.

[greygt3]

Just for comparison purposes only, don't read anything into this.

I'm here looking into a ACR but I'm coming from the Porsche GT3, GT2 world. I tracked my Porsches often and I live in Texas so it's hot. Water temps would never rise above standard road driving temps as would the oil temp. It was never a concern ever.

Just thinking out loud here but am wondering how these temps will effect the motor longevity? This is a wet sump motor after all as opposed to a dry sump setup.

I've been reading all the ACR reviews and think it's going to be something special.

[VENOM V]

You are not talking to enough people. I have a little private network of 6 owners who track and we go back and forth on ideas. If you are driving hard, its the norm.

Hmmm, like Flatout I am tracking with a lot of Viper track rats and I have never heard if this being an issue. I drive hard and heating issues are not the norm here in CA, which has tracks that regularly see summer ambient temps in the 90s and 100s. Maybe you have a track that for some reason is particularly harsh on temps, but it is the exception not the norm.

My built Camaro track car had heating issues until I added two oil coolers with custom shrouding. A few weeks ago I tracked at Laguna Seca with a bunch of Vipers that ran flawlessly. A C7 ZO6 came in puking all of its coolant during a session with ambient temp only in the high 60s. I asked the owner about temps, he hit 267 F coolant and 309 F oil. Yikes.

But Vipers running hot? I'm with Andy, probably low water or oil, or an air pocket.

I'd be curious if others are also having heating problems.

[VENOM V]

Just for comparison purposes only, don't read anything into this.

I'm here looking into a ACR but I'm coming from the Porsche GT3, GT2 world. I tracked my Porsches often and I live in Texas so it's hot. Water temps would never rise above standard road driving temps as would the oil temp. It was never a concern ever.

Just thinking out loud here but am wondering how these temps will effect the motor longevity? This is a wet sump motor after all as opposed to a dry sump setup.

I've been reading all the ACR reviews and think it's going to be something special.

I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the longevity of the Viper V10. The whole car is pretty bullet proof on the track. I've been tracking mine quite a bit, have almost 15,000 miles on it. The only issue I've had was an O2 sensor failure that was replaced under warranty. The ACR is even more durable, with spherical rod ends and I believe it has a differential cooler as well.

[BLUETA#1]

But Vipers running hot? I'm with Andy, probably low water or oil, or an air pocket.

No, no and no. I have professional factory racing and extensive testing experience. Those were all fine. The temps are correlated to speed…lap times. I see it at the track….last event the fast Vipers, Camero and McLarens all overheating. The cars that were a few seconds slower were fine.

[BLUETA#1]

Just for comparison purposes only, don't read anything into this.

I'm here looking into a ACR but I'm coming from the Porsche GT3, GT2 world. I tracked my Porsches often and I live in Texas so it's hot. Water temps would never rise above standard road driving temps as would the oil temp. It was never a concern ever.

Just thinking out loud here but am wondering how these temps will effect the motor longevity? This is a wet sump motor after all as opposed to a dry sump setup.


I've been reading all the ACR reviews and think it's going to be something special.

I have had a GT3, RS, etc. The Viper is my first American car. It’s a ball to drive and a beast. I love it. However, the P-cars never ran above 195 degrees when pounding on them. I can cover all the new GT3s at COTA….for about 6 laps.

[VENOM V]

But Vipers running hot? I'm with Andy, probably low water or oil, or an air pocket.

No, no and no. I have professional factory racing and extensive testing experience. Those were all fine. The temps are correlated to speed…lap times. I see it at the track….last event the fast Vipers, Camero and McLarens all overheating. The cars that were a few seconds slower were fine.

Well my lap times are pretty quick at some tracks too, and I also race. Haven't had issues with the Viper's temps. At Buttonwillow, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca and others, no overheating problems. Not surprised Camaros have had issues, they are notorious for it.

I don't doubt you've had overtemp issues in mild weather, just surprised that's all. First time I've heard of it being an issue.

[BLUETA#1]

Well my lap times are pretty quick at some tracks too, and I also race. Haven't had issues with the Viper's temps. At Buttonwillow, Thunderhill, Laguna Seca and others, no overheating problems. Not surprised Camaros have had issues, they are notorious for it.

I don't doubt you've had overtemp issues in mild weather, just surprised that's all. First time I've heard of it being an issue.

I probably as not clear…I never said mild weather. Ambient temp over 90 is when its an issue. I am confident that the issue will be fixed by September. If we get it, I will publish it.

[VENOM V]

I probably as not clear…I never said mild weather. Ambient temp over 90 is when its an issue. I am confident that the issue will be fixed by September. If we get it, I will publish it.

Ok that makes sense at those hotter ambient temps, looking forward to hearing about the solution.

[Nemesis]

I see 240 regularly in my TA and GTS on the track, ambients from 75-94.

[BLUETA#1]

I see 240 regularly in my TA and GTS on the track, ambients from 75-94.

Thank you!

[Nine Ball]

Some vid screen shots of my last two track days, near the end of 20 min sessions. Car still has factory coolant, and Mobil1 0-40 oil.

84F ambient, 210 coolant, 233 oil



91F ambient, 213 coolant, 237 oil (this track was short, stayed in 3rd gear entire time at high rpm) Arrow pcm installed.



This is the good thing about helmet cameras, you can go back and review all the gauges later

[FLATOUT]

You are not talking to enough people. I have a little private network of 6 owners who track and we go back and forth on ideas. If you are driving hard, its the norm.

I talk to customers everyday that track a lot, and track my gen V's as often as I can, it's not the norm. I'm not saying your car isn't having a problem just that these cars have had very predictable track temps since we started running them in 2013.

Ben Keating, Ralph, and a bunch of others in our community drive the cars very HARD on track and have not run into problems with elevated temps.

[BLUETA#1]

I talk to customers everyday that track a lot, and track my gen V's as often as I can, it's not the norm. I'm not saying your car isn't having a problem just that these cars have had very predictable track temps since we started running them in 2013.

Ben Keating, Ralph, and a bunch of others in our community drive the cars very HARD on track and have not run into problems with elevated temps.

We will agree to disagree…its not me…its several other cars as well. It’s a fine line. Run a 2:33 at COTA and its 220. Run a 2:29 lap and its 240 within 2 laps. I was at the Viper event at COTA last year…every car that I happened to time, except the race cars of course, were in the 2:30s. (That's still quick.)

[Stealth]

I just returned from a 85F HPDE at CA Speedway in Fontana, CA yesterday. I made a separate thread and address temps in that thread as well.

[TrackAire]

We will agree to disagree…its not me…its several other cars as well. It’s a fine line. Run a 2:33 at COTA and its 220. Run a 2:29 lap and its 240 within 2 laps. I was at the Viper event at COTA last year…every car that I happened to time, except the race cars of course, were in the 2:30s. (That's still quick.)

At the lap times you've listed, 4 seconds a lap is a lot of speed difference so I can definitely see an increase in temps. It may also be an aero issue where the air is just not flowing into and out of the heat exchangers as efficiently as should.

I just test drove a fairly stock C5 Z06 yesterday and was pretty shocked to see the oil temps hit 240 degrees when driving slightly aggressively on the road during the test drive. Water temps stayed in check, but I didn't expect the oil to jump that fast. There are a lot of cooling upgrades available for the Vette because of this. I think it is only common sense that a few small mods may be needed on the Viper to help drop the water temps 15 to 20 degrees during all out driving with a high caliber driver behind the wheel.

What role does humidity play on the cooling of a car?.......what helps dissipate heat better through the radiators, high humidity or low humidity?

[FLATOUT]

We will agree to disagree…its not me…its several other cars as well. It’s a fine line. Run a 2:33 at COTA and its 220. Run a 2:29 lap and its 240 within 2 laps. I was at the Viper event at COTA last year…every car that I happened to time, except the race cars of course, were in the 2:30s. (That's still quick.)

I NEVER said that YOUR car didn't have an issue, and I will repeat that again. But what you are saying to me is that you have 9 cars that have this issue and you are saying that all of them are being driven harder and faster than what Ben Keating was capable of doing at COTA that day. I just don't believe that, there has to be another issue going on.

Again it may be happening but it is not the norm. The ACR's that were testing at VIR recently didn't have this problem either. Maybe Lally wasn't driving it fast enough, who knows.

[BLUETA#1]

I NEVER said that YOUR car didn't have an issue, and I will repeat that again. But what you are saying to me is that you have 9 cars that have this issue and you are saying that all of them are being driven harder and faster than what Ben Keating was capable of doing at COTA that day. I just don't believe that, there has to be another issue going on.

Again it may be happening but it is not the norm. The ACR's that were testing at VIR recently didn't have this problem either. Maybe Lally wasn't driving it fast enough, who knows.

You are rearranging my words to make an argument. Here is the deal. My car freaking overheats when I am on it. (I know cars as a factory race driver and tester.) I have quietly…off the boards...researched it and I have some across several more people who hit 240 when then go hard. I am not suggesting that anyone is faster than anyone else. Can we end this unless you have any new suggestions two help the problem?

[ViperGeorge]

Unfortunately I must agree with BLUETA#1. My car also gets freakin' hot on the track. Last track day ambient was 77, coolant hit 243 in about 10-15 minutes, oil hit 267. Remember too that the PCM pulls timing at those temps. I have an Arrow PCM and headers. I checked the cooling system, no air that I could find. Bled it from the bleeder, jacked right side up high too but still no air. I've added Water Wetter and changed the oil to Mobil 1 15w50. I will also probably do an IPSCO under-drive pulley. I will see what else I can seal up around the radiator but the Gen 5s already have a top close out panel. After I get my pedal assembly fixed I got to get back to the track.

There is something not right with at least some of these cars. Mine is a 2015 TA 2.0. My 2009 ACR NEVER saw temps this high. I gotta admit I am regretting getting rid of the 2009 ACR. I sure hope someone figures this out because it sucks not to be able to go hard for more than 10-15 minutes.

[Stealth]

It basically depends on how hot the ambient temperature is, how hard you push the car and your driving style. As I noted in the other thread, I plan to use more brakes and less heel-toe in the future to keep temps cooler (driving style issue). There are also places where I can run in 5th instead of 4th at this track. (CA Speedway). Who knows, Ben K. and others may use these and other techinques to manage temps in the race cars. Of course, those are race cars.

My Gen V GTS with Aero and Arrow PCM and Corsa tires ran great at CA Speedway HPDE yesterday. The car did not generate any error codes, did not go into any type of limp mode, and cooled quickly when I dropped the rpms a bit. Nevertheless, the Gen Vs can get a bit warm when pushed (235--261F Oil). Several other cars at the HPDE that were going a bit fast had actual heat issues--brake pedal to floor, reduced power, error codes, etc. It was about 85F at the track.

[ViperGeorge]

It basically depends on how hot the ambient temperature is, how hard you push the car and your driving style. As I noted in the other thread, I plan to use more brakes and less heel-toe in the future to keep temps cooler (driving style issue). There are also places where I can run in 5th instead of 4th at this track. (CA Speedway). Who knows, Ben K. and others may use these and other techinques to manage temps in the race cars. Of course, those are race cars.

My Gen V GTS with Aero and Arrow PCM and Corsa tires ran great at CA Speedway HPDE yesterday. The car did not generate any error codes, did not go into any type of limp mode, and cooled quickly when I dropped the rpms a bit. Nevertheless, the Gen Vs can get a bit warm when pushed (235--261F Oil). Several other cars at the HPDE that were going a bit fast had actual heat issues--brake pedal to floor, reduced power, error codes, etc. It was about 85F at the track.

Remember though, at 240 degrees the PCM is already pulling timing. This will reduce power and slow you down.