What is the point of the Gen V ACR chasing the 'Ring record?

[ViperSmith]

I am not looking for the "It should always be the best!" type of responses.

Here in 2013 (2014) we are in the boon of "hyper exotics" like the P1 which, are massive R&D projects which have virtually the only purpose of running the 'Ring in a blistering fast speed. The claims are it has done well under 7 seconds.

I'd postulate that SRT is better spending its money further developing the Vipers capabilities for the average man and ignore spending an untold sum, as some want SRT to do, to "reclaim the 'Ring record."

A majority of Vipers stay at home in the United States. Wouldn't it make more sense for SRT to focus on further developing the program to satisfy the needs of a majority of its buyers. The longest track in the US is 4.486 at Miller Motorsports Park, a fraction of the length of the 'Ring.

If SRT manages to build a car that can best the P1 at the 'Ring by pure chance, I say run it, but I don't think focusing on setting the 'Ring record is an efficient use of limited funds.

[Viper Girl]

Back when I wanted to see a Owners run at the 'Ring with the new gearing on the 2010 ACR... I spoke with Viper engineers and they gave me a ballpark figure that it cost them to do the run...
It was less than $100k, renting the ring, shipping the car, airline tix for the team... If you look at it from the standpoint of advertising... for less than $100k all the magazines are singing your name...

That's cheap advertising to promote your brand, IF you can set a record.


Then think about the paddle shifting trans in the race cars, those are said to be 90k ea... Taken into perspective that 'Ring run is a bargain.

[FLATOUT]

I agree about the Hypercar, and the fact that some of these numbers might very well out of reach for anything but a 7 figure vehicle. That being said the fact that an ACR Viper can come within sniffing distance of the fastest cars the world has ever seen while beating 99% of them, I think, proves it's value to the buyer. A $150,000 ACR Viper that finishes a mear 10 seconds behind one maybe two hyper cars globally that will crest 7 figures to purchase, suddenly becomes an extremely capable option for the guy in the $300,000-$500,000 price range to add to the stable.

I wish for SRT to make the best version of each generation of the Viper possible. Always set one version up for track duty and see what it does. A major multi million dollar effort and a complete change in the vehicle from top to bottom to achieve the overall record doesn't make any sense to me either.

I think of the Ring edition LFA that is never seen in public, or a ring edition AMG type SLS car. An ACR that I can drive over to Tomball Dodge and see with my own eyes, and purchase same day that goes 7:00 or 6:99 at the Ring would be mind blowing.

[ViperSmith]

Back when I wanted to see a Owners run at the 'Ring with the new gearing on the 2010 ACR... I spoke with Viper engineers and they gave me a ballpark figure that it cost them to do the run...
It was less than $100k, renting the ring, shipping the car, airline tix for the team... If you look at it from the standpoint of advertising... for less than $100k all the magazines are singing your name...

That's cheap advertising to promote your brand, IF you can set a record.


Then think about the paddle shifting trans in the race cars, those are said to be 90k ea... Taken into perspective that 'Ring run is a bargain.

And I realize all of that - I guess my focus was, if the Gen V ACR happens to slaughter the Ring, so be it. But, I don't think SRT should focus on it, at all.

I think there has been a lot of focus by Viper enthusiasts who can't wait for the Gen V ACR to hit the ring, which I am sure it will do fine at, but IMHO SRT spending any money to specifically shoot for the 'Ring is a useless waste of resources.

I will agree, $100k for what they got out of it advertising wise is a steal.

[ViperSmith]

I agree about the Hypercar, and the fact that some of these numbers might very well out of reach for anything but a 7 figure vehicle. That being said the fact that an ACR Viper can come within sniffing distance of the fastest cars the world has ever seen while beating 99% of them, I think, proves it's value to the buyer. A $150,000 ACR Viper that finishes a mear 10 seconds behind one maybe two hyper cars globally that will crest 7 figures to purchase, suddenly becomes an extremely capable option for the guy in the $300,000-$500,000 price range to add to the stable.

I wish for SRT to make the best version of each generation of the Viper possible. Always set one version up for track duty and see what it does. A major multi million dollar effort and a complete change in the vehicle from top to bottom to achieve the overall record doesn't make any sense to me either.

I think of the Ring edition LFA that is never seen in public, or a ring edition AMG type SLS car. An ACR that I can drive over to Tomball Dodge and see with my own eyes, and purchase same day that goes 7:00 or 6:99 at the Ring would be mind blowing.

I think with the Gen V, SRT has made the Viper more "accessible" to those that are more novices at tracking with the addition of traction control, etc. IMHO, spending money developing a program where people who buy new Vipers get some sort of track training, would be a massive boost. You get it with a ZR1, SRT needs to step up to the plate.

Cover the cost of the Ron Fellows-esqe school and get people driving the cars the way they are meant to!

Agree with your points on the "Ring Cars" that you never see on the road.

[01sapphirebob]

Bragging rights among other things. The cars that are better then the Viper at the ring (and this debate could go on and on so lets not turn it into that) cost A LOT more and aren't considered production cars. The ACR was a car that almost anyone could buy off the showroom floor of your local dodge dealer and run it at the track. Holding the 'Ring record gives merit or validation to what the engineers have done with the car and advertised its capable of doing. It shows it's a PROVEN track machine.

The GEN V ACR (when it comes out) will probably go to the 'Ring. I'd be interested to see what it does.

[TrackAire]

The Ring record or very strong Ring times gives you much more marketing payback on a global scale than 25 million dollars worth of advertising can provide. Look at all the talk and press Nissan has received this last couple of weeks on the new GTR and its 7:08 Ring time. That is not even a valid time (as a production car) since the car is not in production or even available for another year. But, look a the press they are getting....and that amount of press in the USA is minor. On the global scale of things it is very important. Most petrol heads have heard about the Dakar race. The average person in the USA has no idea what it is. But in Europe, the Middle East, Russia, Asia, etc they stop normal TV programming to give updates and special reports on the days events. Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, etc can spend tens of millions on a race program because winning sells cars on a global scale. Although people think that most buyers of the Viper are in the USA, a lot of them are not from the USA but live here.

Ring times support the high performance market the same way. Just because we don't see the hype in the USA about it, many people from other countries live here and follow the results. You can't buy that type of advertising. How long did you discuss your favorite Superbowl commercial from two years ago?.....do you even remember what it was? But, the reality is the 2010 Viper has the production car Ring record and it is still being discussed or at least listed as a car to beat. Like the old saying goes, there is no bad press as long as they get your name right. Even if the Viper is 3rd or 4th fastest on the list, it is on the list. A list that is talked about and argued over by the demographics that matter.

The cost to do a Ring attempt is less than the cost of keeping the electricity on in the Chrysler building for a week. If Chrysler cannot afford the minuscule cost of a Ring attempt, then they don't deserve to be in the high performance market. With the record car sales Chrysler has reported this week, I'm sick and tired of hearing that there is no money in the budget to make a kick butt halo car. It's time to make a statement and "not in the budget" does not instill the performance mindset I require if they want my purchasing dollars.

George

[Thawk97]

I suppose it depends on what it actually costs, but I remember when the Viper most recently claimed the title - it gave even me, a long time Viper fan, a brand new level of respect for the car. I'd say in terms of exposure, it'd be worth a fair sum assuming it can set a lap which isn't beaten shortly thereafter (they may want to determine what sort of margin they can create for themselves relative to other cars who may try in the near future). And, hopefully it does not have to come at the expense of some other opportunities to improve the "everyman's" version of the car.

[Shooter]

Very well put TrackAire

[ViperSmith]

But that is my point. The Gen IV ACR ran the time as an afterthought.

I hold to my statement, the Gen V ACR should run the 'Ring as an afterthought as well. IMHO SRT should focus any investments it will make on racing customers will actually do - not what someone being flown to the 'Ring should do.

Thats my point. Build an ACR that customers will use, not that you sell to hold some record for a fleeting period of time. The ACR-X ran the ring over just fine and I think the Gen V ACR whenever it gets there will be closer to that than the Gen IV ACR.

[viperr]

I think that if the Gen V ACR can run it below 7 minutes it would be in an exclusive club, assuming it is at a reasonable cost. We still have a lot of people who don't know they are still building Vipers. I know the car magazines enjoy fast runs and it would be nice publicity and let people know how much faster it is than the C7 or many other newer cars.

[BlknBlu]

Lots of good points, but I do not think that a new version of the ACR is going to topple the Porsche 918. Price makes no difference for the record, but it does make a difference in real world owners and purchasing power.

Bruce

[FLATOUT]

What will matter will be the Chevy time. The Gen IV ACR always enjoyed the fact that everyone knew that it was a monster track weapon. The 7:22 and 7:12 times were ahead of the Chevy competition even if most standard street figures like 0-60 were even between the ZR1, Z06, and Vipers. The ring proves because of it's length and high speeds what cars "generally" are truly faster in all facets of performance.

They have to stay ahead of the Vettes.

[TrackAire]

Lots of good points, but I do not think that a new version of the ACR is going to topple the Porsche 918. Price makes no difference for the record, but it does make a difference in real world owners and purchasing power.

Bruce

I think some "rules" about what constitutes a Ring record for a production car needs to be put in place. Here are some of the rules I would suggest so that special prototypes and factory ringers (pardon the pun) don't take away from real production car attempts.

-Minimum quantity of cars built per year (lets say 100 or 200 cars built per year to qualify for production Ring record claims)
-Car must be available for sale to the general public before the Ring attempt can be attempted or validated, must be a street legal car with a VIN, etc.
-Car must be available for sale in the USA and meet our safety and emissions requirements. If it isn't available to the largest market in the world, is it really the worlds best???
-Cars must be equipped as bought from the manufacturer....no added roll cages, special safety harnesses, etc. This is a production car and should be run as the manufacturer supplies it the the consumer. If the manufacturer doesn't have it listed as an option, it can not be added just for the Ring attempt.
-No ceiling on price....it can be as expensive as heck as long as it meets the above requirements.

The 918 will have no problem meeting the quantity requirements, but Ring attempts done before the actual car is available for sale means nothing to me for "production car" records IMO. Not sure I can even buy the 918 in the USA yet.

Soooooo by my rules (lol), the 3 year old record of the 2010 Gen 4 ACR still stands!!

George

[Policy Limits]

The 2 second club: 918, Aventador, GT-R, MP4-12C

Nuff said

[Late Apex]

The Ring is always for bragging rights and SRT should stay on top of it especially with the Nismo GT R with the bragging rights now. It gives top honors to mass produced street cars and certainly helps sales.

[FLATOUT]

The 2 second club: 918, Aventador, GT-R, MP4-12C

Nuff said

Are you referring to 0-60 times? So handling, braking, top speed, vehicle dynmanics mean nothing to you? You basically found the most basic performance test to judge a car from. Seems legit.

[viperdan]

I in part bought my 2009 ACR due to its track prowess at the Ring! Nothing wrong with owning the baddest and fastest car at the local cruise night either!

[FLATOUT]

I in part bought my 2009 ACR due to its track prowess at the Ring! Nothing wrong with owning the baddest and fastest car at the local cruise night either!

As did I. I still think this is why so many of the early Vipers sold well, they were so far out in front of everyone and it wasn't even close.

[Policy Limits]

Oh you wanna talk suspension? How many drivers died in early model vipers once they left the straight line? Better yet what % of them lived?

I don't know the answer but I'm curious to know and suspect there were many; new snake, not so much

[Troublemaker]

If you don't get why, you won't get why. This is what the Viper has always been about. Trying to turn it into a luxury car was and still is a mistake. That sub 7 ring monster could be the most stripped down pseudo race car that just barely counts as street legal and it means more than all the fluff they added to sell this to people that really never wanted a Viper.

[commandomatt]

Oh you wanna talk suspension? How many drivers died in early model vipers once they left the straight line? Better yet what % of them lived?

I don't know the answer but I'm curious to know and suspect there were many; new snake, not so much

So you are saying that the Gen V allows you to be a bad driver and let you drive it at a level (beyond your capability) where an earlier Viper would not.

Guess what happens when the nannies you depend on so much cant cover your any longer and let go...

Matt

[Policy Limits]

Nannies can certainly fail, no question. But I'm guessing there's a reason why they are legally mandated is all

[Troublemaker]

Nannies can certainly fail, no question. But I'm guessing there's a reason why they are legally mandated is all

Yeah, the dumbification of society. They need to protect from the dumbest, up. I have no doubt insurance companies were partly to blame.

[FLATOUT]

Nannies can certainly fail, no question. But I'm guessing there's a reason why they are legally mandated is all

Because lazy drivers never take the time to actually learn to drive, so we must dumb down the platform so you don't kill yourself.

But if 0-60 is the only test you're concerned about why did you buy a Viper?

And we are discussing the Gen V Viper ring time, not Gen 1 Viper handling characteristcs. You were comparing the car you currently own (2013 Viper) to the "2 second club" in a thread based around hyper cars on the worlds most demanding road circuit and somehow you decided to throw in 0-60 times as the most important measure of a current production vehicle.

0-60 times were important when I was in highschool. An acceleration test of 1st gear only is about the shallowest measure of a super cars performance there is.