using Hp tuners on top of Arrow pcm

[amk]

I was wondering if hp tuners can be used on an Arrow PCM. I have heard that the Arrow pcm has no torque managment issues and that might be the case with the heads. So if I can use the arrow pcm for my NA and hpt for using the nitrous.

[Steve M]

You would end up overwriting the Arrow stuff, essentially going back to stock. With the Gen 4/5 Viper, you either tune the stock PCM or go with the Arrow PCM (Mopar for the Gen 4), but I would not recommend overwriting the Arrow PCM.

[amk]

thank you

[Magnus]

Don't use your Arrow PCM with HP Tuners. You will lose the resale value of the Arrow unit.

If you want a custom tune though, we released an update about a month ago that includes everything the arrow PCM's list, plus much more, so you won't gain any hidden advantages with the idea of using an Arrow as your base.

If you want help achieving some of the effects like decel pop, etc.. or other features, post your tune on the HP Tuners forum and I can help you achieve the various items.

Also, Torrie McPhail is a reseller of HP Tuners and can also sell you a custom tune for your vehicle. He can sell you a tune that you would have access to and can continue to modify.

- Keith @ HP Tuners

[cashcorn]

Arrow is a canned tune. With a good tuner you should come out way ahead. If you are in SD, you need to call A & C Performance. Todd is the man!

[Greg Good]

Don't use your Arrow PCM with HP Tuners. You will lose the resale value of the Arrow unit.

If you want a custom tune though, we released an update about a month ago that includes everything the arrow PCM's list, plus much more, so you won't gain any hidden advantages with the idea of using an Arrow as your base.

If you want help achieving some of the effects like decel pop, etc.. or other features, post your tune on the HP Tuners forum and I can help you achieve the various items.

Also, Torrie McPhail is a reseller of HP Tuners and can also sell you a custom tune for your vehicle. He can sell you a tune that you would have access to and can continue to modify.

- Keith @ HP Tuners

He tried to have the car tuned via HPT with the new heads I ported, but the computer always pulled timing out. No one knows exactly why. Do you have anything you can share with us on that?

Thanks.

[Greg Good]

I know that, but in the past with the Gen 4 heads I've ported the Arrow PCM worked well.

[amk]

So guys here is the thing, I added GG heads to the car, and the car keeps pulling timing we are still not sure what is the exact issue on why when we try to add timing it pulls. We changed to colder spark plugs, saw better gains but as of now the car is exactly the same as a headers and tune gen 5 viper. And yes, I am working with Todd at a&c, Todd and Greg are working together to fix the issue. One of the things we assume that is happening that the vvt can't move because of the larger valve springs that were made for a bigger cam. Another thing could be is that the HP tuners is missing a few tables and Torque managment is one of them, that is why I am asking about the arrow pcm as it might work well for my NA build.


We are all in the learning curve and I think I am the only one who has shaved heads and increased the compression to 11:2. I would never doubt Greg's work, who would ever doubt it with all of the great builds he made. Nor will I doubt Todd's expertise in Tuning these Vipers he is a Great Guy and earned his Rep in the Viper world. We will find a solution we just need to find out if maybe It is possible that my dynamic compression could be higher depending on when the intake valve closes on my cam vs. the other cam. If the dynamic compression is too high you can create a situation where it has a tendency to knock even with low spark advance. Or maybe if we are getting a false knockout from a component.

I am getting Calibrated by James Karger this week on nitrous, I hope we will find an answer on why this is happening to my car.

[Steve M]

He tried to have the car tuned via HPT with the new heads I ported, but the computer always pulled timing out. No one knows exactly why. Do you have anything you can share with us on that?

Thanks.

Do you have the file by any chance?

[Steve M]

If you have the PID available on a Gen 5, you can also log the exhaust cam desired and actual angles and look at them in a histogram to see what's going on there...that would at least prove/disprove your theory about the exhaust cam lobes not getting to the desired angle. It'll look something like this (this is the desired angle):

[Greg Good]

Do you have the file by any chance?

Hopefully Todd will join the discussion?

[cashcorn]

does this mean a stand alone is the answer

[amk]

does this mean a stand alone is the answer

It could be, but arrow is working on a heads and cam tune so I am sure HPT would come up with a solution and not go for a pro-efi or motec which costs a lot!

[Steve M]

It could be, but arrow is working on a heads and cam tune so I am sure HPT would come up with a solution and not go for a pro-efi or motec which costs a lot!

The more info you/we can give them, the better chance they have at fixing the issue. There are some kooky things these PCMs do behind the scenes...reverse engineering that stuff ain't easy.

[amk]

I will provide anything within my capabilities, I am not a tuner I am just a car enthusiast. I am sure Todd will join and provide us with feedback so that we can come up with a solution.

[Steve M]

Well, if there's any way I can help, just let me know, even if it is just another set of eyes on it.

[amk]

Well, if there's any way I can help, just let me know, even if it is just another set of eyes on it.

I highly appreciate that Steve!

[Jack B]

Greg:

Do you have access to a witech so that you can check for knock retard? Just so you do not feel real bad, it appears this was not easy for Arrow either. I am down-loading the latest HPT beta tonight. I will verify tomorrow if this version has the scanner is working for the G5 , perhaps Keith can tell us what is new in this latest Beta.

I just did a couple of wot runs to 6400 and the timing was spot on when compared to what I requested.

[Greg Good]

Jack, I'm not a tuner in any way shape or form. Todd is doing the tuning on it.

I'm a Dominator and MSD kind of guy. ;-)

[Jack B]

I have dozens of wot logs on my G5 and the car has my HPT tune. I am not saying it does not exist, however, I have only seen torque management in one area. When you add slicks and launch hard the pcm pulls throttle during the first 60 ft. In my case I have not seen timing being pulled. If I launch on the clutch (slip it) the pcm does not pull throttle.

So guys here is the thing, I added GG heads to the car, and the car keeps pulling timing we are still not sure what is the exact issue on why when we try to add timing it pulls. We changed to colder spark plugs, saw better gains but as of now the car is exactly the same as a headers and tune gen 5 viper. And yes, I am working with Todd at a&c, Todd and Greg are working together to fix the issue. One of the things we assume that is happening that the vvt can't move because of the larger valve springs that were made for a bigger cam. Another thing could be is that the HP tuners is missing a few tables and Torque managment is one of them, that is why I am asking about the arrow pcm as it might work well for my NA build.


We are all in the learning curve and I think I am the only one who has shaved heads and increased the compression to 11:2. I would never doubt Greg's work, who would ever doubt it with all of the great builds he made. Nor will I doubt Todd's expertise in Tuning these Vipers he is a Great Guy and earned his Rep in the Viper world. We will find a solution we just need to find out if maybe It is possible that my dynamic compression could be higher depending on when the intake valve closes on my cam vs. the other cam. If the dynamic compression is too high you can create a situation where it has a tendency to knock even with low spark advance. Or maybe if we are getting a false knockout from a component.

I am getting Calibrated by James Karger this week on nitrous, I hope we will find an answer on why this is happening to my car.

[amk]

I have dozens of wot logs on my G5 and the car has my HPT tune. I am not saying it does not exist, however, I have only seen torque management in one area. When you add slicks and launch hard the pcm pulls throttle during the first 60 ft. In my case I have not seen timing being pulled. If I launch on the clutch (slip it) the pcm does not pull throttle.

Do you have ported heads with increased compression to 11:2 ?

[Jack B]

Does Todd have a way to see the enhanced pids on the G5.

Jack, I'm not a tuner in any way shape or form. Todd is doing the tuning on it.

I'm a Dominator and MSD kind of guy. ;-)

[Jack B]

Obviously not, my point was, I found that it was employing torque management by pulling throttle - just trying to help.

Do you have ported heads with increased compression to 11:2 ?

[amk]

Obviously not, my point was, I found that it was employing torque management by pulling throttle - just trying to help.

The most accurate answer can be provided from Todd, he will give us an answer he is just too busy working on many other builds. I appreciate the intension to help Jack

[Greg Good]

That's good to know. Thanks Jack.