Oil Filter Seeping on Top

[swexlin]

Longer post, so please bear with me. Upon taking delivery of my new (to me) car last October, I had to also make a switch to dealer with a very trusted Viper tech who services the cars of several local Viper owners here, one of whom is a good friend of mine. Since Bill P had just serviced the car prior to delivering, I just had a the PA state inspection done, which it passed with flying colors of course. I only put a 3-400 miles on the car before it sat in my garage all winter. So now, I've been driving quite a bit, and decided to take the car on for fresh oil, and any software updates (none needed it turns out). Not doing the airbag recall at this time, I'll have it done in the fall.

Now, this tech could probably take apart and put one of these cars back together blindfolded. So after sitting in the waiting room about 1/2 hour, car was done. I paid, (didn't look at the invoice CAREFULLY, my fault) and went to the back and chatted with him for a few minutes. Drove back home, and then I noticed that the filter number on the invoice was NOT the Viper part number (0503XXX) but something different. Figuring maybe just an input error, I went out and check, and there was the black Mopar filter on the car. Looked up the part number online, and it's the 5.7 Hemi filter. (Remember, I'm doing all this on one of my rare days off from work). Called the service manager back, he was very apologetic, said he would go speak with the tech, and call me back. A few minutes later, he called back, and said they didn't have the correct filter in stock (even though I made the appoint at least two weeks ago), as it is so "new". (I didn't waste my time explaining it's the same since 2008). What pissed me off MORE is that the tech, who should know better, put the wrong filter on, probably thinking I wouldn't notice. Or maybe he is of the opinion that filter is a filter, and it honestly doesn't matter, who knows? There are several other Dodge dealers local, I'm sure a couple phone calls could have tracked one down, and I could have brought the car back later in the day.

Well, it so happens that I had a spare filter that Bill P sent along when he delivered the car (thanks Bill, it came in handy!). So I took it back with me, and the tech swapped it out, and they gave me a credit for the wrong filter. I had barely sat down in the waiting room, and the car was ready. All good.

So I put about 230 miles on the car yesterday, high speed, some heavy traffic, and chauffeuring some ill kids from their prom back to their treating hospital. When I went out to detail the car this morning, I notice a little seepage on the top of the filter. I figured maybe it was just a little spillage from when it was swapped out. I cleaned it off, and went for a 23 mile drive. I checked it again, and yes, there it is, some seepage. So, I'm guessing either the filter gasket was bad, or perhaps cross threaded. It is on tight, and there is nothing on the ground.

Before you guys say "change your own oil". By the time I buy the oil, and bin for old oil, jack the car up in my driveway, etc, I can drive to the dealer, have it done, and be back home in an hour or less. For about the same cost. And as long as the car is under warranty, only they will do it. So I'll have to call them back tomorrow, make another appointment to swap in another one (one they get one in). The moral of this story is, CHECK the work that you tech does before you leave the dealer.

[Steve-Indy]

Sadly, it is not a given that these filters' gaskets seat properly without special attention. The gasket can move about if handled roughly or spun on quickly. This has been known (and posted) for at least 4 years. Because of this, I put the SRT filters on our Vipers slowly and deliberately...then, I inspect the top of the filter for any sign of a bulging gasket using a mechanic's mirror. Then, after filling the car with oil, I drive it a few miles and return it to the lift for a repeat inspection with the mirror.

You might also want to be sure that the oil is really coming from the filter.

[swexlin]

Sadly, it is not a given that these filters' gaskets seat properly without special attention. The gasket can move about if handled roughly or spun on quickly. This has been known (and posted) for at least 4 years. Because of this, I put the SRT filters on our Vipers slowly and deliberately...then, I inspect the top of the filter for any sign of a bulging gasket using a mechanic's mirror. Then, after filling the car with oil, I drive it a few miles and return it to the lift for a repeat inspection with the mirror.

You might also want to be sure that the oil is really coming from the filter.

Steve, I poked around with a flashlight, everything (at least that I can see) is dry. I think what you mention above is probably it: in haste to swap it in (and get my nit-picky ass back out the door), the tech probably just spun it on quick.

[01sapphirebob]

Yes...for whatever reason the SRT and Viper filters leak from the top.

[cashcorn]

how about a mobil 1 filter?

[swexlin]

Yes...for whatever reason the SRT and Viper filters leak from the top.

So it's something that's fairly normal? I don't remember noticing on my SRT8 in the 7 years I owned it, but it sometimes had the black filter on, depending (done at my previous servicing dealer) with no ill effects. My Gen 3 used a different filter of course.

So am I overreacting, and just live with it, if it is normal? In other words, if you opened the hoods of 20 Gen 4 and/or 5s, some would have leakage on top of the filter? Steve above seems to confirm this I have a hard time believing that in the fast paced dealer environment, that the techs are taking the time to do what Steve suggests above, except may at Woodhouse or Tomball.

[99RT10]

how about a mobil 1 filter?

The MI-204 will not fit the Gen 4/5s. I believe the Mobile 1 filter number that does is M1-210.

[Steve-Indy]

Steve is concerned because he saw a friend's car (2008) blow ALL of the engine's oil out through a herniated gasket that ruptured completely about 80 miles past oil/filter change by a very experienced Viper Tech. The photos of the gasket told the whole story.

[swexlin]

Steve is concerned because he saw a friend's car (2008) blow ALL of the engine's oil out through a herniated gasket that ruptured completely about 80 miles past oil/filter change by a very experienced Viper Tech. The photos of the gasket told the whole story.

Yikes. I've got about 250 miles on the car since the change (including some high speed driving and hard accelerations), but I'll be calling the dealer in the morning

[01sapphirebob]

So it's something that's fairly normal? I don't remember noticing on my SRT8 in the 7 years I owned it, but it sometimes had the black filter on, depending (done at my previous servicing dealer) with no ill effects. My Gen 3 used a different filter of course.

So am I overreacting, and just live with it, if it is normal? In other words, if you opened the hoods of 20 Gen 4 and/or 5s, some would have leakage on top of the filter? Steve above seems to confirm this I have a hard time believing that in the fast paced dealer environment, that the techs are taking the time to do what Steve suggests above, except may at Woodhouse or Tomball.

Yup. The filter on my GEN II does the same thing. Kinda freaked me out the first time I noticed it but a local friend of mine said that his filter did the same exact thing.

[Voice of Reason]

Any chance the old gasket stuck to the pan and they screwed the new filter up onto the old gasket? I've had that happen once in the 23 years I've been changing my own oil and it caused a gusher of a mess right away, but maybe if they seated better it would be a slower leak?

[swexlin]

Yup. The filter on my GEN II does the same thing. Kinda freaked me out the first time I noticed it but a local friend of mine said that his filter did the same exact thing.

What about your Gen 4? ON edit, sorry, realized you don't own a Gen 4, misread your sig.

[swexlin]

Any chance the old gasket stuck to the pan and they screwed the new filter up onto the old gasket? I've had that happen once in the 23 years I've been changing my own oil and it caused a gusher of a mess right away, but maybe if they seated better it would be a slower leak?

Unlikely, as the was the 3rd filter on in the same morning (old one off, incorrect one on, then that one off, and this new one on). Steve makes a good point above about having to be very slow and diligent with these filters. Seems the are quirky, and again, except for the Big viper dealers, your average Viper tech is still working in a fast paced dealer environment, draining, screwing on quickly, refill, and out the door....next! Which means, this crap will happen. On the other hand, why can't SRT or Dodge design a filter that is easier to install?

[Steve M]

Any chance the old gasket stuck to the pan and they screwed the new filter up onto the old gasket? I've had that happen once in the 23 years I've been changing my own oil and it caused a gusher of a mess right away, but maybe if they seated better it would be a slower leak?

This is what I was going to ask...one of my filters left the gasket behind. If I hadn't poked my head up there, I wouldn't have even noticed.

In my experience, none of my filters have leaked at the top. I'd do some more investigating...

As for ease of use/install, I don't think they could have done any better on these cars. The filter is in one of the easiest to access locations, and the filters themselves are well built. I always change my own oil, so I prefill my oil filters and lube the o-ring prior to screwing it on...I always go slow putting it on, and hand tight gets me to +1 turns beyond the gasket seating.

[swexlin]

This is what I was going to ask...one of my filters left the gasket behind. If I hadn't poked my head up there, I wouldn't have even noticed.

In my experience, none of my filters have leaked at the top. I'd do some more investigating...

As for ease of use/install, I don't think they could have done any better on these cars. The filter is in one of the easiest to access locations, and the filters themselves are well built. I always change my own oil, so I prefill my oil filters and lube the o-ring prior to screwing it on...I always go slow putting it on, and hand tight gets me to +1 turns beyond the gasket seating.

Good info as always, thanks Steve.

[01sapphirebob]

What about your Gen 4? ON edit, sorry, realized you don't own a Gen 4, misread your sig.

I do own a GEN IV. Its happened on both my vipers. Don't know why/cause but it happens. Cheap gaskets? Over tight? Not tight enough? Havent really found a rhyme or reason to it.

[v10enomous]

So what exactly is "hand tight" ? Is that as tight as you can possibly get it with your hands and if so the doesn't that vary from person to person ? Is that 1 hand or 2 ? My GenV for instance is easier to get leverage on than my GenII. Typically I go as tight as I can get it with 2 hands and then 1/4 turn with the wrench. When I did my last change I noticed a tiny bead of oil on the bottom center of the filter but no trace of where it came down. I wiped it and drove the car and another small bead appeared. I then tightened another 1/8 turn and no more bead of oil. Purolator filter BTW. On another somewhat related note, I spoke to someone recently with over 6,000 mile on their GenV and they are using a quart every 750 miles somehow.

[99RT10]

Purolator filter BTW.

Purolator classic or Purolator Pure 1?

[Jack B]

I do not want to rain on the parade, but, personally, I do not think I have ever changed a filter that was easier than the G5. You have room and it goes in at a right angle. My G2 and G3 were much harder and far messier to change. My 2014 Grand Cherokee requires a special tool to get to drain and even with the tool it is still difficult. One thing is correct, make sure the old gasket comes off with the filter.

Unlikely, as the was the 3rd filter on in the same morning (old one off, incorrect one on, then that one off, and this new one on). Steve makes a good point above about having to be very slow and diligent with these filters. Seems the are quirky, and again, except for the Big viper dealers, your average Viper tech is still working in a fast paced dealer environment, draining, screwing on quickly, refill, and out the door....next! Which means, this crap will happen. On the other hand, why can't SRT or Dodge design a filter that is easier to install?

[v10enomous]

Purolator classic or Purolator Pure 1?

Classic

[Steve M]

So what exactly is "hand tight" ? Is that as tight as you can possibly get it with your hands and if so the doesn't that vary from person to person ? Is that 1 hand or 2 ? My GenV for instance is easier to get leverage on than my GenII. Typically I go as tight as I can get it with 2 hands and then 1/4 turn with the wrench. When I did my last change I noticed a tiny bead of oil on the bottom center of the filter but no trace of where it came down. I wiped it and drove the car and another small bead appeared. I then tightened another 1/8 turn and no more bead of oil. Purolator filter BTW. On another somewhat related note, I spoke to someone recently with over 6,000 mile on their GenV and they are using a quart every 750 miles somehow.

Hand tight for me is 1 hand, but the instructions are listed on the oil filter (the SRT filter that is) - spin the filter until it stops turning freely, and then go one full turn beyond that.

As for oil use, my Gen 4 uses little to none, but I only make it about 1,000 miles between oil changes since I don't drive mine much...it's also never seen a track of any sort. I'm thinking that needs to change sometime soon.

[swexlin]

So what exactly is "hand tight" ? Is that as tight as you can possibly get it with your hands and if so the doesn't that vary from person to person ? Is that 1 hand or 2 ? My GenV for instance is easier to get leverage on than my GenII. Typically I go as tight as I can get it with 2 hands and then 1/4 turn with the wrench. When I did my last change I noticed a tiny bead of oil on the bottom center of the filter but no trace of where it came down. I wiped it and drove the car and another small bead appeared. I then tightened another 1/8 turn and no more bead of oil. Purolator filter BTW. On another somewhat related note, I spoke to someone recently with over 6,000 mile on their GenV and they are using a quart every 750 miles somehow.

Interesting, thank you Charlie. Did you mean on the bottom? Mine is in the little groove on the top edge of the filter, but everywhere else is dry. Including where it actually attaches.

[swexlin]

I do own a GEN IV. Its happened on both my vipers. Don't know why/cause but it happens. Cheap gaskets? Over tight? Not tight enough? Havent really found a rhyme or reason to it.

Overtight, that thought occurred to me as well. Thank you Bob.

I plan on calling the dealer this morning. As soon they can get me back in, I'll let you guys know the outcome

[swexlin]

As an update, I'm dropping her back off in the morning. Kudos to the service manager at my dealer, he was very apologetic, and said come right in, and we will make it right. I'll let you guys know the outcome.

[BLUETA#1]

Anyone know the part number for the Gen 5 oil filter? I am about to make my first trip ever in a Dodge dealership!