Changed my thermostat, what a difference!!

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-06-2015

I just finished changing my thermostat to a 180* one and replaced all the radiator and heater core lines with high quality Silicone ones, and man what a difference it makes!
The first pic was my car in October about 50 degrees out, this second one is my car tonight at about 30 degrees out but in the garage. Both pictures were taken at idle after ideling for 20 minutes.
I also had my PCM reprogrammed to lower my fan temps..I now feel better about the temps Im seeing on the gauge. PS I dont know why it uploaded the pictures sideways..

**stuntman** · 03-07-2015

What did you use to reprogram your fans? What temps do you have the LS & HS fans triggered at now?

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by stuntman

What did you use to reprogram your fans? What temps do you have the LS & HS fans triggered at now?

SCT tuner had Sean Roe do a map for me for a few minor mods, lower fan temps and shut off rear O2's as well as skip shift. I dont know what temps they are set to come on but it makes a difference for sure. Ill see tomorrow if I can hook up the SCT handheld and datalog the temps that they come on at.

**Vprbite** · 03-07-2015

IIRC, Eddie Martin told me that the fans kick on at 213 degrees.

I remember seeing some temps in the gen II out here in Arizona that put the pucker factor to 10. But the fact that they don't kick on till 213 shows that the engine can run a bit hot just fine.

You changed a few things that should help cooling. I think the fans coming on earlier is one of the biggest because I feel like it tries to move the air sooner, so that you don't have to wrestle the temp down from a high temp so much as try and maintain it at a lower temp.

People go in circles on the thermostat as to whether it helps or not. The argument being that once the thermostat is open (this particularly goes for hot weather climates) it doesn't matter if it is a 210 degree thermostat, a 180 degree, or if it was welded open...once it's open that's it. If it can't cool at that point, it can't cool. It's maxed out. I personally feel that it does help for the same reason I mentioned above. Start cooling sooner, rather than wrestle it down from a higher temperature. It's sort of like putting a 12 pack of soda in the fridge. How much more would you hear the fridge kick on if it was put in there at 90 degrees vs you bought it already cold and put it in there at 40 degrees? It's easier to keep it cold than get it cold. At least that is my belief. Also, pretty much all of the race teams do it and they don't deal in dyno's and theoretical stuff, they deal in what wins races, period. So if they think it works and see differences than it probably does.

I swapped it out too and I do think it helped. Looks like you got the same results.

P.S. As per the loading the pictures sideways, are you using a Mac? When I use my IPad they sometimes load sideways or upside down but are always fine with my PC.

**Sybil TF** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Dajerseyviper

SCT tuner had Sean Roe do a map for me for a few minor mods, lower fan temps and shut off rear O2's as well as skip shift. I dont know what temps they are set to come on but it makes a difference for sure. Ill see tomorrow if I can hook up the SCT handheld and datalog the temps that they come on at.

Did he e-mail you a tune? Got an SCT but haven't used it yet.

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Vprbite

IIRC, Eddie Martin told me that the fans kick on at 213 degrees.

I remember seeing some temps in the gen II out here in Arizona that put the pucker factor to 10. But the fact that they don't kick on till 213 shows that the engine can run a bit hot just fine.

You changed a few things that should help cooling. I think the fans coming on earlier is one of the biggest because I feel like it tries to move the air sooner, so that you don't have to wrestle the temp down from a high temp so much as try and maintain it at a lower temp.

People go in circles on the thermostat as to whether it helps or not. The argument being that once the thermostat is open (this particularly goes for hot weather climates) it doesn't matter if it is a 210 degree thermostat, a 180 degree, or if it was welded open...once it's open that's it. If it can't cool at that point, it can't cool. It's maxed out. I personally feel that it does help for the same reason I mentioned above. Start cooling sooner, rather than wrestle it down from a higher temperature. It's sort of like putting a 12 pack of soda in the fridge. How much more would you hear the fridge kick on if it was put in there at 90 degrees vs you bought it already cold and put it in there at 40 degrees? It's easier to keep it cold than get it cold. At least that is my belief. Also, pretty much all of the race teams do it and they don't deal in dyno's and theoretical stuff, they deal in what wins races, period. So if they think it works and see differences than it probably does.

I swapped it out too and I do think it helped. Looks like you got the same results.

P.S. As per the loading the pictures sideways, are you using a Mac? When I use my IPad they sometimes load sideways or upside down but are always fine with my PC.

As per the service manual the Thermostat BEGINS to open at 195* and is not fully seated open blocking the bypass and sending all of the coolant though the radiator until 219*(well after the fans kick in). IMO that is way to much of a temperature fluctuation for me to feel comfortable.What people do not realize is the the Thermostat does not just open and close and that is it. A thermostat will fluctuate and begin closing again as the temperature is brought down by the fans, then start to reopen and close as needed. It is more of a variable restriction valve than an on/off switch..With the OEM fans kicking on at 205 low and 213 high that is too much of an overlap with the fans wanting to cool the coolant in the radiator as the stock thermostat is not even fully opened sending all the coolant there..The OEM system can not keep up with itself in my opinion.

The 180* thermostat would start opening 15* lower and be full opened 10-18* cooler than the OEM one. I always felt the best way to cool something down is to not let it get that hot in the first place. The benefit of the lower thermostat in my opinion is this,
1) it will open way sooner thus not allowing the engine to achieve a 219* temp before fully seating and allowing all of the coolant to be cooled by the radiator and not bypass back into the heating system and engine.

2) If the engine is running around 195* the lower stat will be fully opened and allowing all of the coolant to run to the radiator for cooling and less cycling of open and closing as the 195* thermostat. This will cause less rise and fall of the temps and less fan cycling as a result. I feel the temps would be more stable.

I wanna say I had my fan temps lowered to the 205* range for high speed, 200* for low..

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Sybil TF

Did he e-mail you a tune? Got an SCT but haven't used it yet.

Yes, and it was simple to load and program. took about 10 mins tops.

**C5Longhorn** · 03-07-2015

Nice, i plan to do a minor tune for these benefits and my minor mods also.

**octopus** · 03-07-2015

Much better! I was wondering if you drove the car around to check the results of your work... That would have been a bad idea with current road conditions lol... When do you plan on taking it out for the first spring drive? It's supposed to rain Sat and Sun next weekend so maybe after that the road salt will be gone and the snow melted. We'll wait and see I guess.

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by octopus

Much better! I was wondering if you drove the car around to check the results of your work... That would have been a bad idea with current road conditions lol... When do you plan on taking it out for the first spring drive? It's supposed to rain Sat and Sun next weekend so maybe after that the road salt will be gone and the snow melted. We'll wait and see I guess.

Well considering I have a 6 foot pile of snow and ice blocking my garage, I wont be on the road anytime soon.

**Fatboy 18** · 03-07-2015

When you took the inlet manifold off I presumed you used new gaskets? If so did you just clean the face of the manifold and cylinder heads then fit new gaskets and clamp up? Reason I ask is I have this job to do and normally use gasket jointing compound, did you use any type of gasket joining compound?

Thanks.

**Sybil TF** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Dajerseyviper

Yes, and it was simple to load and program. took about 10 mins tops.

What cable do I need for the connection from the laptop to the SCT?

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Sybil TF

What cable do I need for the connection from the laptop to the SCT?

It comes with it, looks like a standard USB cable.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Fatboy 18

When you took the inlet manifold off I presumed you used new gaskets? If so did you just clean the face of the manifold and cylinder heads then fit new gaskets and clamp up? Reason I ask is I have this job to do and normally use gasket jointing compound, did you use any type of gasket joining compound?

Thanks.

I had new manifold gaskets but just left the old ones in place cause they looked fine..Im gonna powdercoat the manifold next year so Ill replace them then.

**Sybil TF** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Dajerseyviper

It comes with it, looks like a standard USB cable.

Mine only has the cable that is attached to the tuner with the end that plugs into the car. Don't have the one you are talking about. Can you take a pic? I'm going to have to buy one I guess. I have the older SCT not the new one.

**Sybil TF** · 03-07-2015

This is what I have.

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-07-2015

Originally Posted by Sybil TF

This is what I have.

It is a standard USB computer cable, try the one going to your computer printer.

**C5Longhorn** · 03-08-2015

How difficult was pulling the manifold? I'll probably do this when I send the manifold and valve covers out to be redone.

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-08-2015

Originally Posted by C5Longhorn

How difficult was pulling the manifold? I'll probably do this when I send the manifold and valve covers out to be redone.

I didnt even pull it all the way off, I took all the bolts out and simply lifted it up and propped it up to give me clearance. The hardest part to get it completely off would be removing the fuel disconnect line, which I have no clue how you would reach it where it is, and if you didnt seat it back in properly, you would have some major issues...Like a fire.. That being said, you will need a long extension Torx drive #35 socket, which is hard to find in stores. And a pair of Needle nose pliers for removing the manifold bolts.

**C5Longhorn** · 03-08-2015

Yeah, I'll have to study up on that before I attempt.

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-08-2015

Originally Posted by C5Longhorn

Yeah, I'll have to study up on that before I attempt.

Its not nearly as hard as the viper specialist make is sound...Trust me..The viper is one of the most basic simple cars there is..

**JonB ~ PartsRack** · 03-08-2015

The 180T did about 20% of the improvement.....the other mods did 80%

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-08-2015

Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack

The 180T did about 20% of the improvement.....the other mods did 80%

Oh I also forgot to mention that I had my OEM radiator Re-cored and put a ticker 3 row core in it... ;-)

**Thawk97** · 03-08-2015

Originally Posted by Dajerseyviper

Oh I also forgot to mention that I had my OEM radiator Re-cored and put a ticker 3 row core in it... ;-)

My OEM is currently being rodded at a rad shop. I was trying to decide if doing a new 3 core was worth it because I also tend to run in the 195/200 range (96 GTS).

**Dajerseyviper** · 03-08-2015

Originally Posted by Thawk97

My OEM is currently being rodded at a rad shop. I was trying to decide if doing a new 3 core was worth it because I also tend to run in the 195/200 range (96 GTS).

Im pretty sure you physically can not rod the OEM core, which is why I replaced mine. They may be blowing smoke up your ass and charging you for a rodding and only putting some flush crap in it. Perhaps Jon B or someone else could confirm this.