Anybody compare P Zeros to PSS or PS2?

[ViperGeorge]

I need to buy tires for One Lap of America. I was toying with putting Gen 5 rubber on my Gen 4 ACR (using my Gen 4 wheels). Tires must be street legal, non-R compound and purchased from Tirerack. I ran PSSs last year and the year before. Tirerack recommends the Michelins over the Pirellis but a friend a SRT says go Pirelli. Anyone do a side by side comparison between them in dry and wet conditions?

I've tried searching but couldn't find anything.

[FrgMstr]

I think SRT is required to say "go Pirelli." The Mich SS is hard to beat for an all around tire. I know mine have been incredible in the rain at speed.

[ViperGeorge]

I think SRT is required to say "go Pirelli." The Mich SS is hard to beat for an all around tire. I know mine have been incredible in the rain at speed.

I've liked the PSSs in the past, they held up better than the PS2s and handle the wet better although the PS2s are better in the dry when warm. I trust the guy at SRT though and he's pretty confident in the Pirelli. He's done a lot of miles on both and he always knows what he's talking about. I was curious though since so many folks on here seem to dislike the Pirellis. I've never had good luck with them in the past either. I ran them on a 65 Mustang in One Lap and I had them on my daily driver Saleen Mustang. Had tire issues on both. Now on the other hand I did run my 14 GTS in the autox at Homecoming and I thought they were very good (I placed 9th and for me in an autox that is saying something).

[Steve M]

Until the VOA's recent deal on Pirellis, the price has just been way too high compared to the Michelins...that's probably why you won't find anyone that's had both.

[Vipes]

I think I'm the only one that hates the PSS. I haven't run any other tire beside the OEM run flats and PSS. The PSS are much better than the run flats but are still worthless in 1st and some of 2nd gear on OEM gen 3 power. I'm about ready to take them off the car after only 1k miles.

[FrgMstr]

I think I'm the only one that hates the PSS. I haven't run any other tire beside the OEM run flats and PSS. The PSS are much better than the run flats but are still worthless in 1st and some of 2nd gear on OEM gen 3 power. I'm about ready to take them off the car after only 1k miles.

Something is wrong there brother. What kind of pressures you running? What kind of temperatures are you at?

[J TNT]

I thought the Corsa's where stickier than the PS2 and PSS .

[djc986]

The Corsa can't be used for One Lap. It does not have the required treadwear rating.

Back to back on the same car, the PZERO is better than the Gen 4 PS2 in both wet and dry. The PZERO is about 1 sec faster on a 55 sec course.

We have not run the SS, back to back.

[Vipes]

Something is wrong there brother. What kind of pressures you running? What kind of temperatures are you at?

I dropped them to 28 psi today to try and get them to hook. Even getting on the throttle very slow and partial in first I couldn't get them to grip. It was 50 degrees out today, probably too cold?

[Steve M]

I dropped them to 28 psi today to try and get them to hook. Even getting on the throttle very slow and partial in first I couldn't get them to grip. It was 50 degrees out today, probably too cold?

Yes...too cold to expect good traction.

[IndyRon]

The Corsa can't be used for One Lap. It does not have the required treadwear rating.

Back to back on the same car, the PZERO is better than the Gen 4 PS2 in both wet and dry. The PZERO is about 1 sec faster on a 55 sec course.

We have not run the SS, back to back.

That sucks as I was going to suggest the Pirelli Corsa's. They are worlds better for handling and traction than the PSS or PS2. If the treadwear doesn't meet spec, it doesn't matter obviously.

[FrgMstr]

I dropped them to 28 psi today to try and get them to hook. Even getting on the throttle very slow and partial in first I couldn't get them to grip. It was 50 degrees out today, probably too cold?

I run my PSSs at 28 cold and generally do not have any traction "problems." That being said, you can blow off any street tire on the Viper with the go pedal at any temperature if you go any where close to WOT in 1st or 2nd. And yeah, 50F is still pretty damn cold for a performance tire, especially if it is not sunny outside. If you have good sunshine, the tires get a lot more heat in quickly. All that said, if you are pedaling the car properly, you should not be breaking those loose. The first time I had PSS tires out in sub-50F weather, I was amazed at how sticky those were.

What are the date codes on those tires? I guess those can't be "too old" given how long those have been in production. Still sounds like something is amiss though. I have had Kumhos, Pirellis (older gen PZero), Nittos, PS2s, and PSSs on my cars, and by far the PSS has been the best all around tire and I do a fairly good amount of "fun" driving. The PSSs do lose a lot of traction once those get down close to the wear bars.

I was thinking of giving the Corsa tires a shot next time around given the recent price adjustments.

[ViperGeorge]

The Corsa can't be used for One Lap. It does not have the required treadwear rating.

Back to back on the same car, the PZERO is better than the Gen 4 PS2 in both wet and dry. The PZERO is about 1 sec faster on a 55 sec course.

We have not run the SS, back to back.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. 1 second on a 55 second course is huge. Since the PS2 is supposed to be faster than the PSS in the dry I suspect the PZero would also beat the PSS in the dry. Not sure about the wet though since the PSS is better than the PS2 in the wet. Any problems mounting the Pirellis on Gen 4 wheels.

[ViperGeorge]

The Corsa can't be used for One Lap. It does not have the required treadwear rating.

Back to back on the same car, the PZERO is better than the Gen 4 PS2 in both wet and dry. The PZERO is about 1 sec faster on a 55 sec course.

We have not run the SS, back to back.

Actually a couple of questions. Which tire did you run first? Did familiarity with the course have an effect? ie. on the second run was the driver much more familiar with the track and hence faster anyway? or did you take enough runs that course knowledge didn't play a role?

[Rocket]

I am no expert by any means - and the one thing that perplexed me about the PSS was inconsistency when I was on the track with them. There were times when they hooked like crazy and times when they let go unexpectedly. They must have a narrow sweet spot for the ideal temp for them to perform. I thought the PS2 was a great tire, especially in dry conditions - except that they wore so much more quickly than the PSS.

[SmoknTires]

In addition to the deal the VOA worked out with Pirelli (and yes it was exclusive), you guys will be pleased to know something very cool was happening in the background and is tied to all of this. Watch for your next mag that will be shipping soon, you'll enjoy a particular article on this topic that will help shed a lot of light on things...

My own particular experience is that the Pirelli's are indeed better. I've run the corsa's and all aspects of the car are a little better. I ran the PS2's and sports cups and while I liked the sport cups obviously due to performance, however the sport cups barely lasted me a year - amazed me at how fast they wore out. The UTQG on the cups were 80, the corsa's are 40 - so while the corsa's are stickier and should wear quicker, I swear they are holding up as good if not better than the cups. We'll see. I'm interested to see how the corsa's hold up at the end of their lives. The cups degraded noticeably and got hard quickly after a number of heat cycles. The cost of Pirelli's makes it tough to rationalize (given the number of tires some of us go through), but given the special deal, it makes it a no brainer now.

Watch for the article in the next issue of the Viper Quarterly, helps to finally provide some concrete data. And thanks to Pirelli for being a good partner with us. The VOA developed a very strong relationship with them, they gave us a lot of perks, some special exposure in the background, and they even became a sponsor. That's how this should work.

[ViperGeorge]

In addition to the deal the VOA worked out with Pirelli (and yes it was exclusive), you guys will be pleased to know something very cool was happening in the background and is tied to all of this. Watch for your next mag that will be shipping soon, you'll enjoy a particular article on this topic that will help shed a lot of light on things...

My own particular experience is that the Pirelli's are indeed better. I've run the corsa's and all aspects of the car are a little better. I ran the PS2's and sports cups and while I liked the sport cups obviously due to performance, however the sport cups barely lasted me a year - amazed me at how fast they wore out. The UTQG on the cups were 80, the corsa's are 40 - so while the corsa's are stickier and should wear quicker, I swear they are holding up as good if not better than the cups. We'll see. I'm interested to see how the corsa's hold up at the end of their lives. The cups degraded noticeably and got hard quickly after a number of heat cycles. The cost of Pirelli's makes it tough to rationalize (given the number of tires some of us go through), but given the special deal, it makes it a no brainer now.

Watch for the article in the next issue of the Viper Quarterly, helps to finally provide some concrete data. And thanks to Pirelli for being a good partner with us. The VOA developed a very strong relationship with them, they gave us a lot of perks, some special exposure in the background, and they even became a sponsor. That's how this should work.

Alex, I look forward to reading the article. As for One Lap though, the Corsas are not legal for the event. The tires also have to be bought from Tirerack, must have a tread wear rating of at least 140, and cannot have an R-compound, . I can go with either the PS2s, the PSS, or the PZeros. I can't use the Corsas or even the old Cup tires. While we get a 25% discount from Tirerack for the event it wouldn't match the smokin deal the club has.

[FrgMstr]

Watch for the article in the next issue of the Viper Quarterly, helps to finally provide some concrete data.

I am very interested in this information. Many thanks for getting us solid comparison!! I can get about 15K miles out of the PSS, and that is driving those fairly hard. PS2 did not come close to that. I am on my second set of PSS now and have a third set in the attic. (Attic is climate controlled.) I will have gone through the PSS tires on the car now by end of summer and would like some good data to put a set of the Pirellis in the attic feeling that I made a good decision.

[Vipes]

I run my PSSs at 28 cold and generally do not have any traction "problems." That being said, you can blow off any street tire on the Viper with the go pedal at any temperature if you go any where close to WOT in 1st or 2nd. And yeah, 50F is still pretty damn cold for a performance tire, especially if it is not sunny outside. If you have good sunshine, the tires get a lot more heat in quickly. All that said, if you are pedaling the car properly, you should not be breaking those loose. The first time I had PSS tires out in sub-50F weather, I was amazed at how sticky those were.

What are the date codes on those tires? I guess those can't be "too old" given how long those have been in production. Still sounds like something is amiss though. I have had Kumhos, Pirellis (older gen PZero), Nittos, PS2s, and PSSs on my cars, and by far the PSS has been the best all around tire and I do a fairly good amount of "fun" driving. The PSSs do lose a lot of traction once those get down close to the wear bars.

I was thinking of giving the Corsa tires a shot next time around given the recent price adjustments.

Yeah, it must be the cold weather. I just watched some old video from the summer and they hooked pretty good then with 32 PSI but it's been so long I guess I forgot and have just been frustrated with the winter and fall lol. The born on date is the 36th week of 2012 and they look close to new as far as tread, no where near the tread wear bar. What kind of nitto's did you have??? I'm thinking about running the 345/30/19 NT05 drag radial for the street and drag track and then go with 18" tires for track days. I'm not sure how drag radials hook in colder temps though? I moved up north from FL a couple years ago so this cold weather stuff is still new to me.

[FrgMstr]

What kind of nitto's did you have??? I'm thinking about running the 345/30/19 NT05 drag radial for the street and drag track and then go with 18" tires for track days. I'm not sure how drag radials hook in colder temps though? I moved up north from FL a couple years ago so this cold weather stuff is still new to me.

I put NT05s all the way around on my car. After four 20 minute heats during a summer session at Motorsports Ranch in Houston (95F+ ambient temp), they gave up the ghost. The heat cycling had killed those. You could pull off chunks, then they got hard as hell a couple of weeks later. For twisty road driving, those were very good however...before MSR.

I know a lot of guys that run the Nitto Drag Radial and have very good luck hooking up. But I have been told those tend to roll over if you are driving twisties due to the soft sidewall. I have not had the DRs on my car personally. Flatout seemed to have a good experience with the Toyo R888 tires, you might give him a PM. There were a bunch of us out for a cruise on Saturday, temps got up to 65F in the afternoon, but in the morning, there was a lot of Nitto DR smoke to be seen.

[Steve M]

My own particular experience is that the Pirelli's are indeed better. I've run the corsa's and all aspects of the car are a little better. I ran the PS2's and sports cups and while I liked the sport cups obviously due to performance, however the sport cups barely lasted me a year - amazed me at how fast they wore out. The UTQG on the cups were 80, the corsa's are 40 - so while the corsa's are stickier and should wear quicker, I swear they are holding up as good if not better than the cups.

That's because UTQG ratings don't translate directly between manufacturers.

Yeah, it must be the cold weather. I just watched some old video from the summer and they hooked pretty good then with 32 PSI but it's been so long I guess I forgot and have just been frustrated with the winter and fall lol. The born on date is the 36th week of 2012 and they look close to new as far as tread, no where near the tread wear bar. What kind of nitto's did you have??? I'm thinking about running the 345/30/19 NT05 drag radial for the street and drag track and then go with 18" tires for track days. I'm not sure how drag radials hook in colder temps though? I moved up north from FL a couple years ago so this cold weather stuff is still new to me.

As a general rule, the softer the compound, the worse it is in the cold.

[djc986]

09viperacr,

I don't have much experience with the PSS for the Viper. However, there was a lot of work to develop the PZERO to be better on the Viper than the PS2. The PZERO tires were specifically developed for the Viper chassis, so they work very well. And as Alex mentioned there will be some objective data to back up these claims.

As for fit on Gen 4 wheels, there are no issues to mount the Gen 5 PZERO tires on Gen 4 wheels.