Looking to get a Viper: Gen 2 + DD or only Gen 5

[viper_eddie]

Hello all!

First off, a bit about myself. I've owned an air-cooled 911 for the past 2.5 years and decided it's time to get something different especially since the rising prices of air-cooled Porsches allowed me to break even on my car. I was looking to get a Viper and rented a Gen 2 for a weekend and loved it. I'm taking my sweet time in finding one and while looking around of course I started wandering and looking at Gen 3s, 4s and now even 5s.

I daily drive a Wrangler and a friend of mine told me a friend of his traded in his Wrangler for a new Porsche 991 at no loss. I figured if a Porsche dealer can do that then my Dodge dealer can definitely do that especially considering that they have 5 Vipers sitting on their lot. They've been sitting there since at least May when I got my Wrangler and 2 of them are 2013 models. They are offering one for 78k and one for 85k. The one for 78k really has my eye and I'm waiting for them to come back with some numbers but the sales rep wasn't in today so I'll have to wait until tomorrow.

So my question to you guys is:

Would you rather have a DD and a Gen 2 or only a Gen 5? I really like the simplicity and rawness of the Gen 2 but is it worth getting a Gen 5 if I can get a great deal on it? I like simple and more old-school feeling cars but I figure some of you more experienced with different generation Vipers here can give me some advice!

Thanks and looking forward to officially joining!
Eddie

[v10enomous]

Does it snow where you live ?

[viper_eddie]

I live in Los Angeles so weather is not really a concern

[Vprbite]

Gen V is a hell of a car. If I could responsibly afford one right now I would. I would say (from what I have seen, as a Gen II owner and currently a Gen 3 owner) that the 5 is a much better car for DD purposes. I don't think there is any question about that. The Gen II is a classic and forever beautiful, but daily driving one takes an interesting commitment. Though si does DD a wrangler.

I loved my Gen II and still miss it but the refinement even to a Gen III is noticeable. The V gives you a comfortable car that is better to be stuck in LA traffic in than a 2. But it is still plenty raw compared to its competitors. From a collectible standpoint, I would say the Gen II but opinions vary on that. If you can get a good deal on a 5, I say take it.

[DaveW]

For a lot less $ than a Gen 5, a Gen 2 will give you an amazing raw driving experience that I have loved for the past 10 years. Keep good, recent Michelins and replace the sloppy shifter with an IPSCO are the basics, with other upgrades exhaust-wise and other simple upgrades and you will love the Gen 2 IMHO.

[viper_eddie]

If I get a Gen 2 I will be keeping my Wrangler. I really wasn't planning on this until my friend told me about his buddy trading it in. I'm really waiting to see what numbers the dealer throws back at me because I told him I don't want to lose money in the hopes of getting the best deal out of them that I can. After all, they have 2 2013 Vipers on their lot, they should be motivated.

I guess I will wait and see and maybe test drive one. The Gen 2 I like the most now is an ACR from a local guy, 1999 model for 45k. If it was 40 I would jump on it but I'm just looking to get a good deal and he's not budging on 45. I'm also having some doubts about getting a non-ABS car...

[VoodooRob]

A lot of Gen Vs out there get driven and have miles on them, there's a reason Gen 2s are mostly low mileage and I couldn't imagine daily driving my Gen 2.

[viper_eddie]

For a lot less $ than a Gen 5, a Gen 2 will give you an amazing raw driving experience that I have loved for the past 10 years. Keep good, recent Michelins and replace the sloppy shifter with an IPSCO are the basics, with other upgrades exhaust-wise and other simple upgrades and you will love the Gen 2 IMHO.

That is basically how I feel and I do love the simplicity and classic feel of the Gen 2. I guess I will have to drive both and see what I think after.

A lot of Gen Vs out there get driven and have miles on them, there's a reason Gen 2s are mostly low mileage and I couldn't imagine daily driving my Gen 2.

If I would get a Gen 2 it would be a Friday through Sunday car (with occasional Thursday use); if I were to get the Gen 5 it would be my daily driver. My work is about 7-8 miles each way but I do have to drive about 15 extra miles every 2 days for work related stuff.

[01sapphirebob]

I guess it all depends on what car you like the most. For me personally I LOVE the looks of my GEN II and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's such a raw car and as the old saying goes..."they don't make them like they use to."

You mentioned that you might not want a NON ABS car. That was a big factor when I bought my GEN II. So if anything that narrows your search. You know it has to be a '01 or '02 model year.

To me it sounds like your mind is made up and you want the GEN II. I say get a GEN II and keep a DD.

[01sapphirebob]

A little fuel for the fire.

[XSnake]

I'd get a Gen 2 and keep your wrangler as a DD. Wouldn't DD a Viper of any Gen.

[viper_eddie]

I guess it all depends on what car you like the most. For me personally I LOVE the looks of my GEN II and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's such a raw car and as the old saying goes..."they don't make them like they use to."

You mentioned that you might not want a NON ABS car. That was a big factor when I bought my GEN II. So if anything that narrows your search. You know it has to be a '01 or '02 model year.

To me it sounds like your mind is made up and you want the GEN II. I say get a GEN II and keep a DD.

You are basically right. I really like the local 99 ACR but I have some doubts about the non-ABS. I'm not worried about myself as much as I am about people doing stupid things in traffic and me having to brake suddenly and ending up with some bad results. It's just kind of annoying because w/ California SMOG laws it's going to be hard to find an 01-02 ACR that has a stock or CARB legal exhaust...it just adds to the wait and I'm getting impatient lol

I will use this as a good excuse to test drive both, though

[Vprbite]

Some people more knowledgable than I can offer more insight but I wouldn't let ABS be a deal breaker. In fair weather, I would think the biggest issue is flat spotting the tires. I think most people would tell you it's the right pedal that gets you in trouble, not the middle of left one. I have driven my current Viper through LA though and you are right about the crazies on the road. It's almost like you have to be crazy too as the best way to avoid a wreck. Drive the speed limit and you are toast.

I am end my previous answer, however. After reading your post again and your subsequent posts it sounds like you will be happier with your wrangler and a Gen II. As I said, I still miss mine. It is a timeless classic.

[01sapphirebob]

I will use this as a good excuse to test drive both, though

Having driven both cars they are VASTLY different. BOTH are great cars in their own right but from what you describe you will love the GEN II. I have a GEN II and a IV. The most common question I get all the time is "which one is you favorite?" I always say my GEN II. There is just something about that car that is unreplaceable and undeniable.

[viper_eddie]

Honestly I never really worried about the non-ABS thing until I started seriously considering a Viper and I started paying more attention to my driving. Randomly I then had 2 situations in which others were basically fully braking in the middle of the street because they either didn't read the road signs or realized they missed a turn. Really stupid stuff and not my fault but in a situation like that I just can't help but think that maybe I wouldn't have enough time to think clearly and "threshold" brake.

But then again, the 99 ACR has that 708 cam...

[XSnake]

That 99 should also have the Koni coilovers vs. the Dyanmic's. Dynamics are a known issue and always leak.

[Sybil TF]

I'd get a Gen 2 and keep your wrangler as a DD. Wouldn't DD a Viper of any Gen.

That's what I would do. Drive your Viper when your in the mood a couple times a weeks and not have to spend big bucks for tires constantly, unless you have a short daily drive.

[AZTVR]

When you say you would use the Gen V as a daily driver, does that mean you would drive it to Home Depot, Costco, Ralph's, let it sit outside at the Cineplex, etc? Or are you more upscale than that, or have the significant other's vehicle for that? Even though I just had a Gen 2, I did feel nervous about leaving it alone out in public, especially around clueless people, parking their SUVs or pickups while talking to mommy ( I mean wifey ) on the cellphone. I never used it as a DD even though less expensive than many people's DD. If DD means mainly just to work and back, the Viper is just fine; but, then again it does transform it from "special" to an every day car after a while.

[Leslie]

Get the Gen I I, 2001-2002 with ABS, good tires...and keep the Wrangler for rainy days.

You said you love simplicity and rawness, that will give it to you.

[GBS]

I think the Gen II and Gen V are both great cars. In all practicality you need a 2nd car with room to carry stuff in even if you intend to drive the Viper a lot. If you can't swing having a 2nd car and a Gen V I would definitely go with the Gen II.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Since you live in LA, get the GEN V.

[Fatboy 18]

If your going to start looking at Gen IIs there are lots and lots of upgraded cars out there

Here's my thoughts,
My car is a 2000 Non ABS car, it comes stock with Brembo 4 piston calipers on the front and a single piston caliper on the rear, nothing wrong with this however if you ever plan on doing a lot of track days you might want to think of looking for a car which has had Brake upgrades.

Now the Stock braking is balanced out at about 70% Front and 30% rear, I found even at slow speeds (under 30 mph) on a damp road the front brakes would lock up too soon if you hit them quick. I did the Toms 40mm rear brake caliper upgrade, basically the piston in the rear caliper is sleeved taking it from 36mm to 40mm, does not sound much but this balances the car out to 60% front braking, 40% rear braking, much, much better and also saves on unsprung weight the bigger brake systems add. This mod is not something you can do yourself as the caliper body requires machining work. So I would look for a car with brake upgrades, Good tires (not old Pilot Sport 1s) Smooth air intake tubes and clean fluids. Belanger headers? Corsa rear exhaust? Nice raspy sound, Later gen IIs also have an internal glass hatch release lever by the drivers seat floor (on the gts) Colour? Stripes? Early Gen IIs had 17" wheels, Later Gen IIs had 18" wheels, Some people who have done Stoptech Big Brake upgrades have gone for 18" front wheels and 19" on the rear, the 19" wheels fill out the rear arches a bit more. Supercharger? TT?

Just some things to think about, have fun searching

[viper_eddie]

That 99 should also have the Koni coilovers vs. the Dyanmic's. Dynamics are a known issue and always leak.

I was not aware of that; I knew that the ACRs had leaking issues but I thought all had Dynamics. I guess that's a plus.

Thanks to everyone else who answered. My heart really is leaning towards a Gen II. I know that if I had a Gen V and someone pulled up next to me in a Gen 2 I would be a bit envious; whereas, if the opposite happened I wouldn't really care.

My girlfriend has a Miata so I really would not have any vehicle for those rare (but still needed) trips when you have to carry oversized goods. Will be on the lookout and will post pics once I get something. Will also most likely drive that Gen V from the dealer just because

[Nine Ball]

I would have no problem driving a Gen 5 daily. They are comfortable and have all the popular luxury car amenities. Gen 2 would be more like a weekend toy. The Gen 5 will feel like a rocket ship, compared to a stock Gen 2. You could always buy a clean Gen 2 and drive it for a year, to evaluate it. Not like they are going down in value, so you could almost own one for free, as long as you don't put a ton of miles on it that year.

[viper_eddie]

If your going to start looking at Gen IIs there are lots and lots of upgraded cars out there

Here's my thoughts,
My car is a 2000 Non ABS car, it comes stock with Brembo 4 piston calipers on the front and a single piston caliper on the rear, nothing wrong with this however if you ever plan on doing a lot of track days you might want to think of looking for a car which has had Brake upgrades.

Now the Stock braking is balanced out at about 70% Front and 30% rear, I found even at slow speeds (under 30 mph) on a damp road the front brakes would lock up too soon if you hit them quick. I did the Toms 40mm rear brake caliper upgrade, basically the piston in the rear caliper is sleeved taking it from 36mm to 40mm, does not sound much but this balances the car out to 60% front braking, 40% rear braking, much, much better and also saves on unsprung weight the bigger brake systems add. This mod is not something you can do yourself as the caliper body requires machining work. So I would look for a car with brake upgrades, Good tires (not old Pilot Sport 1s) Smooth air intake tubes and clean fluids. Belanger headers? Corsa rear exhaust? Nice raspy sound, Later gen IIs also have an internal glass hatch release lever by the drivers seat floor (on the gts) Colour? Stripes? Early Gen IIs had 17" wheels, Later Gen IIs had 18" wheels, Some people who have done Stoptech Big Brake upgrades have gone for 18" front wheels and 19" on the rear, the 19" wheels fill out the rear arches a bit more. Supercharger? TT?

Just some things to think about, have fun searching

My number one choice is a 99 ACR which has California legal Edelbrock headers, California not-so-legal high flow cats (should still pass visual inspection since nobody will take the car apart to check) and from then on I think Edelbrock cat-back exhaust.

It DOES have the big brake kit which is a huge plus for me. That's the reason why I haven't spent 40k on a Gen 2 yet, I won't buy one without ABS that has not had the brakes upgraded unless the seller allows a discount for that. So far none of them have.

Only problem w/ this ACR is that the owner is firm on 45 and I really don't want to spend more than 43 on it.