2 Seconds

[Nine Ball]

2 seconds is the lap time difference between my previous 2013 SRT Track Pack, vs my 2014 TA. Even on the exact same wheels/tires. Both cars had the aero, so no gain from that. The main difference was the handling, the TA is able to carry more speed in a few corners. The brake performance felt identical, but the difference there is that 15-minutes into the session, the TA brakes were still consistent. The previous SRT brakes would begin to fade a little bit after 10 minutes of hard driving.

We had Motorsports Ranch (MSR Houston) rented out today. Previous best in the 2013 was 1:48.5, in similar weather (dry, warm). Today, I went 1:46.6 in the TA. I was averaging 1:48s, for the most part. On this track, anything sub-2:00 is flying. Sub 1:50 is even faster, on par with some cup cars. This was on my street wheel setup, the Forgeline 19s with Michelin Pilot Super Sports. The Corsas would have certainly been faster, but this was a good comparison between cars. I'll be on Sport Cups for the COTA event in a couple weeks.

Good variety of cars out there today. Couple brand new Z/28 Camaros, ZR1s, C6 Z06s, Camaro ZL1s and our Camaro 1LE. Also a couple Porsche GT3's showed up, one 997 and the other a brand new one. I did a ride-along in the new GT3, amazing car. It definitely had better brakes than the TA does, with the factory CCB's. The GT3 also comes with Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires, which were flat out amazing. Traction out of corners was crazy with that car and tires. No lap times on that car, but I was able to fend him off in the TA (while working my rear off). The TA is much harder to drive than the GT3, for sure. The rest of the field, I passed or lapped everyone else. Had the quickest lap of the day, for the group.

The TA is everything it is hyped up to be. A track-ready beast, out of the box.

Vids and pics later. I'm beat, after spending 2.5 hours total in the driver seat.

Tony

[Nine Ball]

[swexlin]

Tony, thanks for the write up and pics. Pretty cool to see that as fast as your Track Pack car was, you are even better in the TA. I think our cars are finally getting the street (and track) cred they deserve. Looking forward to seeing some video. One question, perhaps I misunderstood - was your 13 Track Pack time with the stock Corsas, or the Michelins?

A friend of mine as a new GT3 on order, and scheduled to be delivered in January. Unfortunately, winter is here in the Northeast, so he probably won't get much time in it until the spring, but I am looking forward to a ride along in it. He's selling his 430 Scud to get the GT3, so that says something right there!

[VENOM V]

Man, that is where I want to be right now, Tony. What a blast you must have had. Nothing like running at the top of the pack on a given track day. Just yesterday I was tracking at Laguna Seca in the Camaro along with my friend Gary in his Gen V GTS.

The GT3s are gorgeous machines, I could see myself owning one some day. What makes you say that the Viper is harder to track? I've heard the same thing about GT3s, from GT3 owners. I used to think that about the Viper but after tracking the Viper and a number of other cars known to be easy to handle at the limit (C6 Z06, ZR1, Camaro 1LE) I changed my mind. The Viper, to me, is actually very controllable at the limit. I don't know if it's seat time, but I am most comfortable with the Viper.

How did the 1LE feel in comparison?

[Shooter]

Wow. 2 seconds is a lot. Good write up and good driving. Do you think it might also have to do with more track time too?.

[Timnineside]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTT. Car looks great and congrats. That's a lot of time off the top.

[FLATOUT]

Great work Tony glad you're digging the new ride.

[Brad00GTS]

I thought your center lock hubs weren't recommended for track use. Can you comment?

[Nemesis]

I saw a 4 second differential between my 2013 GPS and my 2014 TA at my home track. I am curious how much I can widen that gap now that I put SS lines in the TA and Hoosiers.

[VENOM V]

I saw a 4 second differential between my 2013 GPS and my 2014 TA at my home track. I am curious how much I can widen that gap now that I put SS lines in the TA and Hoosiers.

4 seconds on same tires? That's a big gap, I'd be surprised if it were just the differences in the car. Better weather? More driving experience?

My guess is that you'll get 3 or 4 more with those Hoosiers. Looking forward to your impressions.

[Bruce H.]

Nicely done, Tony. Glad to see you enjoying it on the track, and in good company with that GT3. Can't believe how fast they can come off a corner with the rear weight bias helping. Was this your first track lapping day with the TA? Thanks for sharing.

[Chorps]

I'm guessing the flappy paddle makes shifting so much easier on the GT3 especially during the turns. TA on Super Sports vs. GT3 on MPSC2 on the track, no doubt which would has the faster tire.

[Nine Ball]

One question, perhaps I misunderstood - was your 13 Track Pack time with the stock Corsas, or the Michelins?

Both cars on the identical set of wheels/tires. I did track the '13 with Corsas one time, it was my first time ever to run that track. The 2013 went 1:45 best that day, on the Corsas. I went again on the MPSS tires and couldn't do better than 1:48. The Corsas definitely had more grip than the MPSS tires. I don't have the factory tires, as I traded the SRT for the TA and let Bernie have the stock wheels off of the TA for my old car, so I could keep the Forgelines. I do have another set of Sidewinders and just got a set of Sport Cups for those. I'll be on those at COTA on Dec 13th.

The GT3s are gorgeous machines, I could see myself owning one some day. What makes you say that the Viper is harder to track? I've heard the same thing about GT3s, from GT3 owners. I used to think that about the Viper but after tracking the Viper and a number of other cars known to be easy to handle at the limit (C6 Z06, ZR1, Camaro 1LE) I changed my mind. The Viper, to me, is actually very controllable at the limit. I don't know if it's seat time, but I am most comfortable with the Viper.

How did the 1LE feel in comparison?

The GT3 doesn't have the torque that the Viper has. He was able to floor it much earlier out of corners, without the tail wanting to slide. Could also be the Sport Cup 2 tires, vs my MPSS tires. The GT3 seemed very nimble in the corners, but on the straights the Viper would walk away pretty badly. It was also cool that the GT3 could be shifted mid-corner and it wouldn't upset the car at all. Awesome transmission and instant shifts with that car. Car had a lot of traction, but could use about 100 more hp, imho.

Our Camaro 1LE continues to impress me. It has the same cornering mph as the TA, very similar traction levels. This made it easy to switch between cars, because I didn't have to retrain my entry speeds. It was able to pass most of the other cars, except for the pesky GT3's. I didn't have the power to keep up with them in the straights, in that Camaro. Also, the factory brakes are only good for about 3 hard laps, then the car fades badly. Brake pad upgrades are in order. Could certainly use another 100 hp, but then we are basically a Z/28 at that point. Hard to beat the 1LE Camaro for $31K brand new, amazing handling car. I was going low 1:50s in the Camaro, until the brakes fade. Still a sub-2:00 car, which is nuts at the price point. Would be an excellent car for someone to buy for learning how to roadrace.

Wow. 2 seconds is a lot. Good write up and good driving. Do you think it might also have to do with more track time too?

Possibly. But I noticed that the steering grip was just better. That is likely just the camber difference between the TA and other models. The tires bit hard in the sharp corners, very little tire squeal at all. And, it usually takes a full lap to warm up the MPSS tires, so my best laps are usually the 3rd or 4th lap. The brakes stay consistent on the TA, whereas they would slightly fade on the last car at that point. The stiffer track setting also plants the car so well, the SRT felt more floaty over the little hill, and in the curves. I didn't change any lines, feel very familiar with the track at this point. Can't wait to try it again on good tires.

I thought your center lock hubs weren't recommended for track use. Can you comment?

Who said that? Not true. Quite a few people track on Forgeline w/ centerlocks. The conversion is still hub-centric, and still uses the lug nuts to mount the entire wheel assembly. The negative is that they are heavy, since the conversion uses steel hubs. The positive is that they look good. I was feeling lazy, didn't want to pull the wheels and trailer the car down. We just drove the hour and drove both cars back home after, kept it simple. I didn't expect to run a new best lap, haha.

Nicely done, Tony. Glad to see you enjoying it on the track, and in good company with that GT3. Can't believe how fast they can come off a corner with the rear weight bias helping. Was this your first track lapping day with the TA? Thanks for sharing.

Yes, that describes the GT3 well. Full throttle much earlier out of a turn, no feeling of any grip challenge. But, then kinda slow on the long straights too. Good at cornering and exits, for sure. TA feels more scary. Yes, my first time at the track with this car, finally got all the clear bra applied a week ago.

First video uploaded. Not my fastest lap, but one with minimal passing. Just a ZR1 passed. This was a 1:48 lap. Tried a new camera angle, I like it.

[Nine Ball]

Just reviewed my Camaro videos. It did very well, until the brakes faded. Very little body roll, just like the Viper. Tire grip was excellent, on the stock 285 wide (front and rear) Goodyears. These tires have more grip than the MPSS tires I had on the TA.

Lap times:

1:54
1:54
1:51
1:52
brakes done, to the pits.

Here is the 1:52 lap, with a passenger in the car.



Tony

[VENOM V]

I'm thinking the GT3's tires had a lot to do with your impressions that it was easier to drive. The Corsas are a big step up from the Super Sports, it would be interesting to hear your impressions if you drove it again on the Corsas.

Tony, at some point soon you've gotta try Hoosiers on both cars. They will blow your mind. The Corsas are a nice improvement, but Hoosiers will put you in another zip code and the fun meter will be pegged.

[Nine Ball]

More pics from a photographer that was attending. I love this car in motion. Notice how close that rear tire is on one turn. Nope, I'll never lower this car

Both of our cars. White helmet driving is my wife. Carbon (black) helmet is me.

[VENOM V]

Just awesome!!!

[Nine Ball]

Here is the roof camera. Second lap is my best lap. Funny that I got a little sideways on T12 and still ran my best lap. That means I can go faster

1'48 first lap
1'46 second lap

[IndyRon]

Very nice. So, likely the upgraded shock tuning plus more aggressive alignment responsible for much of the improvement? SRT did a nice job with the TA

[Bruce H.]

Nice driving, and geez I'd like to do a track like that for a change that doesn't have guard rails and walls everywhere if you get it a bit loose!

[Nine Ball]

Nice driving, and geez I'd like to do a track like that for a change that doesn't have guard rails and walls everywhere if you get it a bit loose!

Come on down. Warmer here, anyways. Haha. I agree, the run-offs on this track are just grassy fields, which gives you a whole lot less to worry about. Had at least 4 cars go 4-off yesterday, two were trying to keep up with me.

[Nemesis]

4 seconds on same tires? That's a big gap, I'd be surprised if it were just the differences in the car. Better weather? More driving experience?

My guess is that you'll get 3 or 4 more with those Hoosiers. Looking forward to your impressions.

Conditions were the same. It was the next weekend and I am very familiar with the track. The TA is much more stable into, thru, and out of the turns which allows you to carry more speed all the way through.

[VENOM V]

Conditions were the same. It was the next weekend and I am very familiar with the track. The TA is much more stable into, thru, and out of the turns which allows you to carry more speed all the way through.

Interesting. I had toyed with the idea of adding TA suspension to my GTS but Erich Heuschle suggested that the carbon aero kit and a track alignment would get me 85% there. We have an event called Viper Tracks in January at my favorite track, Buttonwillow. SRT is going to be out there with a couple of cars, I'm hoping one will be a TA 2.0. I can't wait to do back-to-back laps comparing my GTS to a TA, if they give others the opportunity to track their cars. Keep us posted on how you like the Hoosiers, after trying them I won't track with anything else.

[Nine Ball]

Interesting. I had toyed with the idea of adding TA suspension to my GTS but Erich Heuschle suggested that the carbon aero kit and a track alignment would get me 85% there. We have an event called Viper Tracks in January at my favorite track, Buttonwillow. SRT is going to be out there with a couple of cars, I'm hoping one will be a TA 2.0. I can't wait to do back-to-back laps comparing my GTS to a TA, if they give others the opportunity to track their cars. Keep us posted on how you like the Hoosiers, after trying them I won't track with anything else.

Wouldn't you just need the swaybars and stiffer coil springs? I figured the shocks were the same between GTS/TA. With your Hoosiers, you might not see any improvement since you have loads of grip already. I do plan on doing the Hoosiers on the Viper, but I bought both of these cars for my wife and she is still learning on the track. The street tires are better to learn on, as they audibly let you know when you've gone too far. lol

Camaro is our beater, no plans to mod it at all. Not even a filter. We did extensive mods to the last two Camaros, not doing it again. That is her daily driver, hehe.

Tony

[Bill Pemberton]

2 seconds -- rule of thumb 10 car lengths per second, so 20 car lengths over your prior Snake , incredible.

Have to agree completely with Venom V ,as you likely have 2 seconds more in the car with Corsas on over the Super Sports and I think the GT3 only felt easier as it was on fresh , stickier tires. Have driven GT3s ( while instructing ) and at the limit I think they are harder to drive than the Viper , but it is Physics with all the weight in the back end. Keep in mind the limits of a Viper are completely different with say the Corsas or Hoosiers -- ahead of all those other guys on Super Sports, you were honking!!!