Coolant Leak - Steam/Smoke

[GhostStalker27]

I went to start up my car thanksgiving morning as it hadn't been started in awhile (it was cold) and after about 30 seconds I noticed steam/smoke coming out from under the hood. I shut her down and investigating.. I didn't notice any white smoke coming from the tailpipe so I don't think I have a blown head gasket or anything, at least I hope not. But I did noticed coolant by the passenger side exhaust manifold where most of the smoke was coming from.

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I'm hoping the hoses just got a little loose and leaked, can going from extreme cold to hot cause this? I replaced all the hoses last year so they should still be in good condition... any ideas? Thanks guys

[GhostStalker27]

I noticed in 2 of those pics it was a little hard to see the coolant - so heres some close ups and I circled the coolant..

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[ICPREY]

Pretty obvious it's coming from the area you posted. I would clean it up and watch it on the next start to isolate it to see what hose is leaking.

[Tom, F&L GoR]

Ghost- some comments. You said the hoses were new, yet in the first image there are severe wear marks from the bottom of the cowl? The hoses are tightly bunched under the cowl, behind the cowl strut rod, against the firewall... My Gen 1 sprung a leak because something rubbed through. I later covered them in some plastic sheet to protect them.

Also in my Gen 1, the heater control valve leaked. The plastic box with the cable is the flow control valve for coolant passing through the heater core. The bottom seal had failed. Might be your leak also.

And lastly, change from the silicate green coolant to a modern long life coolant. The green coolant has an additive technology that coats the metal surfaces, (i.e. chemical soldiers depleted immediately) but in 2-3 years flakes off and floats around. When it does, you loose the corrosion protection plus the silicates are abrasive materials that wear the water pump seal. Long life coolants are nearly or completely silicate free, so no wear issues. Further, the additives are in solution until needed, so the chemical soldiers are available much, much longer. Chrysler will have their recommended version, but personal testing and experience shows Peak Global Lifetime Coolant is excellent.

[AZTVR]

Why is there coolant visible in photo #3 ? The photo makes it look like you left part of the old hose and clamp in place, and then put a new oversize hose on top of that with a constant tension hose clamp. That is a very abnormal configuration. That's what I would first suspect. On both ends, if done the same way. For all I know, that is a good way to do it; but, I always suspect non-standard installs first.


EDIT: Well I'm guessing that hose doesn't go down to the manifold; so, probably not the cause of the smoke. Still, I'd recheck all connections if it is a new install.

[C.J]

IMG_20141128_185448.jpg

AZTVR has an excellent point...that doesn't look right at all.

This photo is odd too...I'd remove the zip ties and hoses and see what's happening there. You can also let it warm up and see if you can spot any leaks while the engine is running.

Do you know who had previously worked on the cooling system?

[GhostStalker27]

Ghost- some comments. You said the hoses were new, yet in the first image there are severe wear marks from the bottom of the cowl? The hoses are tightly bunched under the cowl, behind the cowl strut rod, against the firewall... My Gen 1 sprung a leak because something rubbed through. I later covered them in some plastic sheet to protect them.

Also in my Gen 1, the heater control valve leaked. The plastic box with the cable is the flow control valve for coolant passing through the heater core. The bottom seal had failed. Might be your leak also.

And lastly, change from the silicate green coolant to a modern long life coolant. The green coolant has an additive technology that coats the metal surfaces, (i.e. chemical soldiers depleted immediately) but in 2-3 years flakes off and floats around. When it does, you loose the corrosion protection plus the silicates are abrasive materials that wear the water pump seal. Long life coolants are nearly or completely silicate free, so no wear issues. Further, the additives are in solution until needed, so the chemical soldiers are available much, much longer. Chrysler will have their recommended version, but personal testing and experience shows Peak Global Lifetime Coolant is excellent.

They're new as of last February, I bought the car in January and took it to Tator as he was recommended. He replaced all the hoses among other things. Interesting stuff about the coolant - I'll be changing that to modern long life - as always very helpful Tom

Why is there coolant visible in photo #3 ? The photo makes it look like you left part of the old hose and clamp in place, and then put a new oversize hose on top of that with a constant tension hose clamp. That is a very abnormal configuration. That's what I would first suspect. On both ends, if done the same way. For all I know, that is a good way to do it; but, I always suspect non-standard installs first.


EDIT: Well I'm guessing that hose doesn't go down to the manifold; so, probably not the cause of the smoke. Still, I'd recheck all connections if it is a new install.

Yes thats coolant and I didn't even notice it til the flash from my camera to be honest. I never saw any coolant under the car either. I wonder if something "went" being it was below freezing when I started it up and I did give it a couple of revs after a while, thats when I noticed the smoke...obviously that was dumb.

I started it up again and saw no obvious leaks, I tighten the clamps down. It still started to smoke but maybe I didn't wash all the old spilt coolant off. I'm just nervous it's something deeper. Is there anything other than white smoke out the tail pipe to look as far as internal damage?.

IMG_20141128_185448.jpg

AZTVR has an excellent point...that doesn't look right at all.

This photo is odd too...I'd remove the zip ties and hoses and see what's happening there. You can also let it warm up and see if you can spot any leaks while the engine is running.

Do you know who had previously worked on the cooling system?

Tator... I'm gonna work on it later today and report back. Just wish it wasn't so damn cold right now

[Tom, F&L GoR]

I recall the nipples on the the heater flow valve seemed too small relative to the hose. I'm not surprised at the use of two clamps. In 2003 the valve was $41.
20141129_204613.jpg AZTVR, studying the image, maybe the black zip-tie in one angle looks like part of the hose. Or, the constant tension clamp is on the widest part of the nipple, so it makes that section appear thicker. I'm curious how the clamp ended up with both fingers down - how did the pliers do this?

[Tom, F&L GoR]

Hmmm... looks like the local dealer got me good.

http://www.mopardealerparts.com/p/DO.../04642554.html

[AZTVR]

For folks new to the Gen 2, I would like to add a caution/explanation in this thread. It is very common to have one of the hoses on the heater control valve back off the nipple with the OEM clamp in place. Specifically, the one on the left in the picture below. Not sure if the one on the right is susceptible to backing off also since it has a formed, short, configuration. The OEM pinch clamp loosens up over time. What folks should do is remove the OEM clamp, push the hose back on, and install a Breeze clamp or other suitable clamp like was done on the left in the picture below.(not sure if the constant tension clamp used on the right side might be an even better.) The backed off hose was pointed out to me at my first Viper Days tech inspection as a commonly found issue, and I have seen it on a friend's car also. It looks like the tie wraps are someone's "belt and suspenders" safety back-up to keep the hoses in place. I doubt that added measure is necessary if one has breeze clamps on both inlet and outlet and checks that they are tight periodically.

[GhostStalker27]

I don't want to jump the gun and assume the worst yet (cracked block or head). I'm not sure if the smoke from the tailpipe is just from condensation (it's cold out) or from coolant in the motor. Would the smoke near cylinder 10 indicate a crack? Or would engine smoke only occur if the burning was external? I can't indicate any obvious leak from any hoses while the motor is running, although as you can see in the pics there was some sort of leak of coolant. As far as a head gasket I was under the impression those failed under extreme heat, where as in my situation the motor went from cold to hot relatively shortly..leaving me to wonder if it's the worst case scenario.. Here's a video to help



From looking at the coolant it doesn't look to have any oil in it, although the reserve tank is low. The oil does look a little dark, but not sure if thats due to coolant or it just needs a changing. I'm wondering if the car would need to run longer before I see symptoms in the oil/coolant..

[Tom Sessions]

If you had coolant in the oil then it would be milky. I think i would check the hose clamps on the 2 heater lines at the back of the valve cover. With the cold weather they could be slightly loosened and allowing coolant to seep past them and get on the manifold. A pressure tested would also be a good investment to help track this down. If it was a cracked head or head gasket then you would be blowing out a hugh white cloud from the exhaust and it would have a bit of a sweet smell to it.

[Fatboy 18]

For folks new to the Gen 2, I would like to add a caution/explanation in this thread. It is very common to have one of the hoses on the heater control valve back off the nipple with the OEM clamp in place. Specifically, the one on the left in the picture below. Not sure if the one on the right is susceptible to backing off also since it has a formed, short, configuration. The OEM pinch clamp loosens up over time. What folks should do is remove the OEM clamp, push the hose back on, and install a Breeze clamp or other suitable clamp like was done on the left in the picture below.(not sure if the constant tension clamp used on the right side might be an even better.) The backed off hose was pointed out to me at my first Viper Days tech inspection as a commonly found issue, and I have seen it on a friend's car also. It looks like the tie wraps are someone's "belt and suspenders" safety back-up to keep the hoses in place. I doubt that added measure is necessary if one has breeze clamps on both inlet and outlet and checks that they are tight periodically.

That is exactly the same set up as I have Never had a problem

[AZTVR]

A pressure tested would also be a good investment to help track this down. .

Autozone Loan-a-Tool link: Pressure Tester

[RT SERPENT]

For folks new to the Gen 2, I would like to add a caution/explanation in this thread. It is very common to have one of the hoses on the heater control valve back off the nipple with the OEM clamp in place. Specifically, the one on the left in the picture below. Not sure if the one on the right is susceptible to backing off also since it has a formed, short, configuration. The OEM pinch clamp loosens up over time. What folks should do is remove the OEM clamp, push the hose back on, and install a Breeze clamp or other suitable clamp like was done on the left in the picture below.(not sure if the constant tension clamp used on the right side might be an even better.) The backed off hose was pointed out to me at my first Viper Days tech inspection as a commonly found issue, and I have seen it on a friend's car also. It looks like the tie wraps are someone's "belt and suspenders" safety back-up to keep the hoses in place. I doubt that added measure is necessary if one has breeze clamps on both inlet and outlet and checks that they are tight periodically.

Yup.. what he said. Super common issues on gen2's.

[ICPREY]

Rent a pressure tester and check for leaks. They also rent/sell a block tester that will tell you if you have exhaust gases in your coolant. Doubtful it's a HG issue.

[GhostStalker27]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'm gonna run a block test. If it comes back negative I can ease my mind knowing it's not block or head related and go from there. Hopefully it's just the heater hoses like most of you have said.