I'm confused.

[daytonprowler]

:I bet the OP can't wait to join either club.

LOL.
My thoughts exactly.

100% agree and I'm very sorry, but when someone tries to destroy a 20 year old club with lies, I see RED!

[JANEY]

Is that not what you did. Randell

[daytonprowler]

Is that not what you did. Randell

Questions usually end in a "?", and my name is spelled Randall. LOL

Enjoy your day!

[Viper Girl]

Is that not what you did. Randell

Hey Janey,
Would you please have, and participate in the conversation we are having here by stopping the attempts to bait others? I think we can all have the conversation, keep to the subject, and not chum the forum with bait...
Thanks!

General Forum Rules

General Forum Rules:

• While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate, "vulgar profanity" (or attempts to bypass profanity filters), insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.

I'm sure you have seen the General Forum rules... but maybe others haven't... http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...al-Forum-Rules

[SmoknTires]

And let's also stay on topic. Hijacking threads screws up the conversation for everyone.

[Fatboy 18]

How about we close this thread now? The new Viper owner asked a question and got an Honest reply by members and was also directed to other websites to read up more if he so wished.

What has happened since then I don't thinks helps anyone, we all have our own take on things and some people will never agree on who said what who did what.

What is clear is that a New Club has been formed with many great people that are Passionate about the Viper brand Lets move forward and long live the VOA

Mark, UK
Proud to be a Mamba member.
1 of the 100's

[Shooter]

I'm still waiting for answer's to my questions. Although I have been sent information, I haven't seen anything to corroborate the accusations that were posted here by the White's. Closing threads is the MO used on the other site.

[Vprbite]

Well you are here so that is all that matters. VOA AZ chapter is awesome so if you are in AZ, would be most important to you.

Hey thanks for the plug, Coloviper. Yes I think we are pretty awesome. Definitely no shortage of great events and great people.

ArizonaJack, first of all congratulation on getting your dream car. You will find many of us here are in the same boat, as it was something we lusted after for years.

Secondly, as far as the clubs go...I don't want to talk trash or sling mud at the other club, especially in a place where they can't respond to any accusations I make, so I will tell you a couple thoughts from my perspective.
Many people here were upset at some things that were going on involving people being banned (effectively kicked out) of the club for the perceived reason of lining certain people's pockets. When this was brought up, many people felt their concerns were being squashed or that any dissention would be silenced.
Due to this, a couple of founding members (some of whom had been banned for expressing concern) started a new club. Each region gave its members the option to vote on which club the wanted to be part of. Many, about 90%, overwhelmingly voted to join with the new club.
I can say that if nothing else, I am so much happier with the new club. To me it seems much more inclusive and welcoming.

I invite you to join us on our upcoming cruise this weekend. I will PM you some info. Come along and see of you would like to be a member. You are absolutely welcome to be a member of the other club or both if you would like. Be advised though there is no Arizona chapter for the other club.

Welcome and I hope to meet you soon.

[Viper Girl]

How about we close this thread now?

We don't usually close threads. If the thread has run it's course, no one will post to it...

[Shooter]

You are absolutely welcome to be a member of the other club or both if you would like. Be advised though there is no Arizona chapter for the other club.

Welcome and I hope to meet you soon.

And that right there shows what a mess Marv Spatz was instrumental in making. From being the President of the National club, to having your region vote to leave. lol

[Vprbite]

Hey shooter, please be nice. We as the Arizona club have no desire to dwell in negativity and also would like any new member to be saved any of the headache that the splintering of the club may cause.

I get what you are saying, but I would prefer to welcome a new member in a positive light. Thanks.

[Shooter]

Hey shooter, please be nice. We as the Arizona club have no desire to dwell in negativity and also would like any new member to be saved any of the headache that the splintering of the club may cause.

I get what you are saying, but I would prefer to welcome a new member in a positive light. Thanks.

No you don't "get what I'm saying". If you did, you wouldn't have posted what you did. He constantly sent me threatening emails. Why would I spare him?. Remember, those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat history.

And I was being nice. Plus, it was a compliment to the new club. Bye now.

[Viper Girl]

Vbite, Not saying I get what everyone posts here or anywhere else... but I think Shooter was pointing out Spatz being at the top of the mountain, to the bottom in a very short period of time. I don't think that is a reflection on the AZ club... It says more about the strength of the AZ membership didn't want any part of it and made a different choice...

[Vprbite]

Shooter and Viper Girl...good point. I'm sorry shooter if I seemed condescending. That really wasn't my intention. You know I have respect for you and your contributions to the club. I was also completely unaware that you had received threatening emails. Thats disgusting behavior to be exhibited by a club president but unfortunately unsurprising.

I was just hoping to spare a new member from getting dragged into a very unpleasant matter. As an AZ member, I know exactly how things went down. In fact I was worried that we would be caught in a baby and bath water scenario when everything was happening. I was worried we would be lumped in with the behavior and choices of one person when that person did not speak for us.

I was merely trying to keep things positive for a new member. I see that it didn't come across that way and I take full responsibility for that. I will try and be more clear. I understand this topic is upsetting to all of us.

Thanks

[ViperTony]

I love the passion in this club! Vprbite: I've heard nothing but positive news about the AZ club. Keep up the great work!

[Vprbite]

Thanks Tony. I am glad to hear that. We are lucky to have great people in this club in all regions and it continues to make ownership so much more fun.

[ViperSmith]

Go read the threads on Viper Alley and decide for yourself.

[vipertank]

All I know is that since you live in AZ, you can drive your Viper all year long...you're very lucky, and you can go to so many awesome national parks and whatnot. Congrats on your new Viper!

[Shooter]

I was just hoping to spare a new member from getting dragged into a very unpleasant matter. As an AZ member, I know exactly how things went down. In fact I was worried that we would be caught in a baby and bath water scenario when everything was happening. I was worried we would be lumped in with the behavior and choices of one person when that person did not speak for us.

I was merely trying to keep things positive for a new member. I see that it didn't come across that way and I take full responsibility for that. I will try and be more clear. I understand this topic is upsetting to all of us.

Thanks

You are right Vprbite. I could have been more clear. It's kudos to how far your region has come in the new club. It's the regions that will make or break this club, and it looks like y'all have a strong region. My apologies for letting my lack of respect for spatz carry over in my post.

[arizonajack]

All I know is that since you live in AZ, you can drive your Viper all year long...you're very lucky, and you can go to so many awesome national parks and whatnot. Congrats on your new Viper!

Thanks, but it wasn't entirely luck. I'm a Bronx boy. Finished college in 1972, packed up the car, and took the advice of Horace Greeley (go west, young man), and I've been here ever since. Car collector's paradise. Nothing rusts in our dry heat. But brains do bake driving a convertible in the summer. I'm happy that the Viper has AC, although it'll be convertible weather until about May.

[Vprbite]

Thank you, Shooter.

And yes Vipertank we can drive our Vipers all year long. Mostly. Sometimes Gen Is and IIs get a little cranky in the peak of summer. But I always feel for you guys that have to put them away for 5 months at a time. Seems like you cold weather guys make up for it by driving every possible day once the snow melts though.

[Roddy]

Hmm, now I understand better. It seems the VCA has alot more "Legacy" information from being the older club. For example there is an illustrated how to section or something to that extent.. one in particular where some one has a "photo how-to" on removing the side sills and installing headers... but you have to pay $115 and be a memeber to see that section. I have no idea how good that section is as I am not a member there, but that "Legacy" info can be invaluable. Too bad that site/club went downhill.

[ViperTony]

Hmm, now I understand better. It seems the VCA has alot more "Legacy" information from being the older club. For example there is an illustrated how to section or something to that extent.. one in particular where some one has a "photo how-to" on removing the side sills and installing headers... but you have to pay $115 and be a memeber to see that section. I have no idea how good that section is as I am not a member there, but that "Legacy" info can be invaluable. Too bad that site/club went downhill.

Actually, all of those legacy how to's can be found on other sites...Alley, Garage, VOA, etc. Google it. Members here are contributing fresh How-To's which are open to everyone. Some of the How To's are in video format. And since all forums are open to the public and searchable it's free to find information on all of these sites. http://driveviper.com/forums/forums/9-How-to-s. The How To section in the other club is stale and hasn't been updated in years.

The trick to finding good results within all of these sites is to is the Advanced Google search. Plug in the domain and keywords. It's much better than using the built-in search for vBulletin.

[whitebeard]

Also some of the vendors are willing to help you as well. Depending on how busy they may be, you might end up on the phone for the afternoon or get instructions sent to you. It really helps having good working relationships with quality vendors and groups.

Win Win.

[FLATOUT]

And many of the people that did those howto's are now on this site. I for one did some how to's on the old site but still enjoy a lifetime ban from the VCA

Hmm, now I understand better. It seems the VCA has alot more "Legacy" information from being the older club. For example there is an illustrated how to section or something to that extent.. one in particular where some one has a "photo how-to" on removing the side sills and installing headers... but you have to pay $115 and be a memeber to see that section. I have no idea how good that section is as I am not a member there, but that "Legacy" info can be invaluable. Too bad that site/club went downhill.