The GT3-R car the new ACR ?

[slitherv10]

I was doing some star gazing earlier tonight and came up with some wishful thinking.

Would it make sense to cut the SRT Race division, save the money that goes towards that ( millions I'm sure) and put that money towards building the GT3-R car as a street version ACR model for the near future. the argument was always how SRT did not have enough money to make the 2013 car what they might have wanted it to be. Was it that important to have a race division and spend millions getting that off the ground in the first year of production with limited funds? Should they not have put the race car division money into making the GT3-R the new ACR with 700+ HP and thus some sales that would generate money, shut the competition and some of us for that matter? It would be a win win situation for them and for us. Hundreds of thousands is wasted in racing those cars and to me that does not make sense for a company that was in a building year. Waste that money on a street version of the GT3-R !! Make the GTS the entry level car with all the bells and whistles and offer the GT3=R car as the ACR with @700HP. Then add the race division in later years as sales bring profits.

Just my star gazing idea.

[donk_316]

nevermind. it turns out everything i wrote turned out to be off topic.

TL;DR One viper. No variants only option packages

[mnc2886]

The race team is a benefit in my opinion. Believe it or not, the ACR-X is responsible for a portion of development for the new Gen V and the everything SRT is learning in racing will be applied to the ACR. Let's put it in perspective. SRT beat the ACR's time around Laguna Seca on inferior tires and 1/4 of the down force. Look at the TA's time on racing slicks. The time with Michelins might have come between the Pirelli time and the slicks time. All this road course racing is why we have such a track monster. The Gen V may not have a marketing budget, but believe me all those sponsors for the race team are chipping in heavily too. Just wait. There will be an ACR and you'll be glad we have a GT3R and a GTS-R it learned from.

[slitherv10]

I can see some of your points. It's obvious from many Viper enthusiasts that bringing out the ACR would have been in the front lines of what people were looking for. the GT3-R was not on anyones minds as of yet. Which makes sense since we all knew they were in their first year of production with the new car and thus expectations towards a race division was something people were not expecgting anyways. But, not having a car that could kick but against the competition and or no WOW factor in styling and performance, was something that we all were expecting. Feedback has proven that. I don't see many enthusiasts whooing or humming over the GT car and what has been gong on in the race end of things. The bigger market is and has been concerned about the production car and its lack their of. the fact that , where is the HP and why not this and why not that. Where is the ACR, when is it set for production?, will their be one considering the sales and financial end of SRT? All these questions would have been answered if they would have spent their first budget of @120 million on developing the new car and an ACR version (GT3-R car). Putting the money made from production and the sponsors money into research and development on the new ACR car as a track car and using the new ACR owners feedback and testing and tuning the new ACR street version car , would have been the corner stone of developing the race car. that would have worked as well, and, in my opinion, would have been more productive.

Again, this is just my star gazing thoughts. I do love the new car and is definitely the best viper ever but, the Viper has never had the title of "better", it has always had the title of WOW. Unfortunately the bar was set too high in the past Generations and so has laid the flat form for the Viper. We never had the competition nipping at our heels. Something we as proud owners never had to deal with. That is why all the rage and indifference regarding the new car. I know SRT has done all they could with respect to what they had to work with. I just think they cold have utilized it better. IMO of course

[ViperSmith]

Arguing what they should have done is a waste of time.

The ACR will more than likely feature lots of alcantara, alcantara/cloth seats, full carbon fiber everything, plus all the goodies you'd expect an ACR to have. Wing, extra aero (active aero would be crazy). Perhaps DCT?

You won't see a GT3R type car, but I do expect the styling to be much more aggressive than the SRT/GTS/TA.

I doubt very much you'd see what Ferrari does with its challenge cars, the steel floors, but I could be wrong.

[rw99]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich

[mnc2886]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich

I agree. I think it may be a 2015.5 model. I heard a rumor from a reliable source that the ACR is under development and has been for a few months now.

[slitherv10]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich

Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

[rw99]

[B]


Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

You know, that's a really good point re: Fiat/Chrysler/SRT and a "Halo Car"... SRT has this weird space as its own brand now, technically with only the Viper in its stable. Having talked with Beth a few times, though, it's clear that she sees anything with an SRT badge as her product... whether it starts as an SRT, Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep. And she is focused on delivering SRT products that feature upgraded interiors and higher quality. At higher price tags, yes. There are five SRT models, not one, and Viper represents them as the Halo Car and the motorsports icon. You see this clearly in their ad copy, such as on DriveSRT.com:



And while Big Daddy Fiat technically has the promotional ability to use Ferrari as the crown jewels of the empire, they don't. No consumer draws a line from Ferrari through Fiat to buy a Dodge or a Lancia. And Fiat rightly avoids any dilution of the marque; Ferrari achieved record sales and profit in 2012 and constitutes a potent moneymaker on their own (I think I read they're now Fiat's most profitable brand). Fiat... is beyond the need for one product to represent its many brands.

But I absolutely see your point: for the Viper, there's that very personal Ralph/Sergio interaction that saved the car... and Viper's going to have to justify its own business case at some point. I'm hoping that the justification will come in the form of SRT sales numbers for all five models, not just the Viper.

You can argue that a Halo Car does little for your brand if too few can (or will) buy it, as per Ford GT. I'm hopeful that Viper sales will pick up in 2014-2015, and I think they will... they're capable of building "special editions" like the TA and Anodized Carbon; I think these will catch some buyers that have been on the fence. Follow it up with an all-business no-frills ACR, as you say, and I think Viper lives on.

We'll have some warning if they're pulling the trigger on an ACR, that's for sure. It's gotta get tested on tracks outside of Michigan, and it'll be hard to miss!


Rich

[BlknBlu]

Look for it to be an automatic too.

Bruce

[mnc2886]

Look for it to be an automatic too.

Bruce

I don't see how. A dual clutch trans won't hold the torque unless it costs more than the car currently does. A single clutch will still cost a fortune, especially with no other vehicle to split development with. I just don't think it will happen with the fifth generation Viper. Unless they spend the time to develop it properly, it will be a cheap fix and people won't like it. Ralph even mentioned in an interview that development of an automatic transmission would cost more than the entire budget for the whole car.

However, if they do some sort of behind the scenes split development with Chevy, kind of like the T-56, then maybe it could happen. Still, the 6-speed manual better be available if they do it.

[ViperSmith]

My guess is SRT is waiting for Chevy to lift their skirt first with the ZR1.

[BlknBlu]

The GTS-R cars are running with them. a 90k upgrade.

Bruce

[Shooter]

The GTS-R cars are running with them. a 90k upgrade.

Bruce

Those cars are de-tuned though right. Not much more then 480 hp or something. A new ACR would be running at least 160 hp more.

[ViperSmith]

What the price comes down to is, if it is a $90k option in the GTS-R (which means that it is feasible), what price point can they get it down to for "mass" production?

I think many would jump if it were a $10-15k upgrade. Consider PDK is $8,000, so it isn't too far off.

[rw99]

I'm not completely convinced of the necessity/cost for developing a dual clutch at the current power/torque levels. The ZF auto slushbox in my Jag XKR-S (550 HP, 500 TQ) is well-proven and an absolute joy to operate with the paddles. Maybe something like that could be ported over to the Viper at much lower development (and consumer) cost?

That said, at this point in the game most potential ACR buyers are completely in love with the idea of a DCT and would look on any other auto as outdated.


Rich

[mnc2886]

I'm not completely convinced of the necessity/cost for developing a dual clutch at the current power/torque levels. The ZF auto slushbox in my Jag XKR-S (550 HP, 500 TQ) is well-proven and an absolute joy to operate with the paddles. Maybe something like that could be ported over to the Viper at much lower development (and consumer) cost?

That said, at this point in the game most potential ACR buyers are completely in love with the idea of a DCT and would look on any other auto as outdated.


Rich

I think Jag has done a great job reinvigorating their brand if you will, but that transmission is suited for a GT car and a GT car the Viper is not. I don't think it would be a good idea.

[BlknBlu]

Yes, I stole this off the web easier to explain.

The SRT® Viper GTS-R is powered by an 8.0-liter V-10 engine that is restricted by the series to produce between 480-490 horsepower, reaching a top speed of 185 mph. A transaxle mounted in the rear saves weight in comparison to a standard transmission, with gear changing taking place via paddle shifters on the steering wheel. On the track, the SRT Viper GTS-R is fueled by E85 as part of the ALMS’s Green Initiative program. •8.0L V-10 engine
•XTrac Transaxle
•Paddle Shift
•Tubular header exhaust system
•Fuel- E85-110-liter tank required


Bruce

[cashcorn]

Even if the ZR1 comes out first. I still don't see SRT wanting to compete. I hope i'm really wrong though.

[Longhornsmark]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.

[rw99]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.

Uhhhh...?

[donk_316]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.

Yeah! wait... WHAT? Someone run this through the Super Secret Viper Decoder ring so I know what he said.

I would be on board for a rear transaxle (a la Corvette) auto trans in the ACR...

Soooo the 2015 Viper ACR is going to be... 150,000?

[mnc2886]

Yeah! wait... WHAT? Someone run this through the Super Secret Viper Decoder ring so I know what he said.

I would be on board for a rear transaxle (a la Corvette) auto trans in the ACR...

Soooo the 2015 Viper ACR is going to be... 150,000?

Unfortunately, I heard that is in the ball park.

[Troublemaker]

I think the current business case of the Gen5 will fail. I really hope they have something up their sleeve. The ACR at $150, 000 will be a short run. They really need to rethink the path they are taking and the Price points. Start putting some SRTs out there, to take away the perception of the $140, 000 car. Make a stripped down, bare bones track monster. No magazine has really given much of a crap about the interior fluff, they all compare track reviews. $5, 000 for stripes is robbery and what about some cheap non carbon aero. They haven't really managed to bring over their new and improved buyer, so lets get back to the hammer that the Viper used to be. I hate the fact they have made a car just fit in when it was really made to stand out.

[slitherv10]

I think the current business case of the Gen5 will fail. I really hope they have something up their sleeve. The ACR at $150, 000 will be a short run. They really need to rethink the path they are taking and the Price points. Start putting some SRTs out there, to take the perception of the $140, 000 car. Make a stripped down, bare bones track monster. No magazine has really given much of a crap about the interior fluff, they all compare track reviews. $5, 000 for stripes is robbery and what about some cheap non carbon aero. They haven't really managed to bring over their new and improved buyer, so lets get back to the hammer that the Viper used to be. I hate the fact they have made a car just fit in when it was really made to stand out.