The GT3-R car the new ACR ?

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree with Troublemaker , as we are seeing a huge shift in buyers towards SRTs, since there is more standard equipment in 2014, and one can have an outstanding Viper in the 111-115 range ( MSRP ).

[slitherv10]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich

Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

[ViperSmith]

edit: nevermind, I have nothing positive to say

[rw99]

[B]


Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

You know, that's a really good point re: Fiat/Chrysler/SRT and a "Halo Car"... SRT has this weird space as its own brand now, technically with only the Viper in its stable. Having talked with Beth a few times, though, it's clear that she sees anything with an SRT badge as her product... whether it starts as an SRT, Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep. And she is focused on delivering SRT products that feature upgraded interiors and higher quality. At higher price tags, yes. There are five SRT models, not one, and Viper represents them as the Halo Car and the motorsports icon. You see this clearly in their ad copy, such as on DriveSRT.com:



And while Big Daddy Fiat technically has the promotional ability to use Ferrari as the crown jewels of the empire, they don't. No consumer draws a line from Ferrari through Fiat to buy a Dodge or a Lancia. And Fiat rightly avoids any dilution of the marque; Ferrari achieved record sales and profit in 2012 and constitutes a potent moneymaker on their own (I think I read they're now Fiat's most profitable brand). Fiat... is beyond the need for one product to represent its many brands.

But I absolutely see your point: for the Viper, there's that very personal Ralph/Sergio interaction that saved the car... and Viper's going to have to justify its own business case at some point. I'm hoping that the justification will come in the form of SRT sales numbers for all five models, not just the Viper.

You can argue that a Halo Car does little for your brand if too few can (or will) buy it, as per Ford GT. I'm hopeful that Viper sales will pick up in 2014-2015, and I think they will... they're capable of building "special editions" like the TA and Anodized Carbon; I think these will catch some buyers that have been on the fence. Follow it up with an all-business no-frills ACR, as you say, and I think Viper lives on.

We'll have some warning if they're pulling the trigger on an ACR, that's for sure. It's gotta get tested on tracks outside of Michigan, and it'll be hard to miss!


Rich

[Troublemaker]

I really think they need to gey away from the fancy, frilly expensive GTS and rekindle what made it the monster it was. They need a Lotus Exige style model. All buff, no fluff, like an all around better performing Gen2 at under $90, 000. That is the car many want to see again, also the one I'm waiting to buy. I love my 96 in all its crudeness, the B&W should also be a paint job you could order. I think they went after the wrong market, but I see it much easier to remove from the car than add to it. If they could figure out how to shave a few hundred lbs and add some subtle aero to a tunable car at a decent price you would have a winner.

[donk_316]

I really think they need to gey away from the fancy, frilly expensive GTS and rekindle what made it the monster it was. They need a Lotus Exige style model. All buff, no fluff, like an all around better performing Gen2 at under $90, 000. That is the car many want to see again, also the one I'm waiting to buy. I love my 96 in all its crudeness, the B&W should also be a paint job you could order. I think they went after the wrong market, but I see it much easier to remove from the car than add to it. If they could figure out how to shave a few hundred lbs and add some subtle aero to a tunable car at a decent price you would have a winner.

Love this idea!
The new ACR should be a SRT with those ballistic seats (NOT electric / added weight = bad), all the CF options they are offering now for inside and out with the typical ACR style suspension and aero. No need to even touch the engine (just adds cost)
I would finally get off the fence for that. Wish they would atleast confirm the ACR is actually on the table.

[XSnake]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

[slitherv10]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

As they did during the heitas of the 2011 and 12 seasons, they allowed Chevy and Ford in the snake pit and tame the Viper. They have and will be doing the same thing now by delaying its fruition. By the time the ACR is brought out, those 2 other guys will have enough time once again to put us right back where we are now. The Prey. Not the predator we have always been.
The only way the Viper will once again atop the American muscle challenge would be firstly (and too late) to have done it already, and or at least to have it doe for the coming year. Otherwise we will have missed the boat once again. The earlier models always had a few years buffer zone among HP and Performance over the others and thus why won championships and were feared. Why it took Chevy nearly ten years(2005) to compete with the Gen 2 cars. 10 years !! No it has finally caught up and in some cases surpassed the Viper in those avenues. Styling and exclusiveness is something they don't really care about. They have and always had the market and will continue to. They have a much larger following than the Viper will ever have. The styling and creature comforts never made them, it was the name and what it stood for. The all American sports car. They had that title and arguably still do today. They know they can't lose that. No matter what SRT does. For us, it means one thing. We need to keep what we always stood for , one thing, Performance and HP. Not creature comforts and not sales numbers.
They ACR will do nothing in my opinion to boost SRT.Fiat.or Chrysler. The GT3-R has been seen heard and realized. It will not be hard for the competition to top that now either , given a few years to do so as well.
We need to find a way to get ahead of the 8 ball now. Balls in our court for the first time since our inception. Unfortunately we have not been here before and don't know how to overcome it or just can't. Like I said in my earlier post. The GT3-R should have been a production ACR for 2013, no race division which translates to more money to produce it. Problem now is, they need to bring out a totally different version now to capture the hearts. To bring back the WOW factor Viper has always brought to the table.

[Troublemaker]

Love this idea!
The new ACR should be a SRT with those ballistic seats (NOT electric / added weight = bad), all the CF options they are offering now for inside and out with the typical ACR style suspension and aero. No need to even touch the engine (just adds cost)
I would finally get off the fence for that. Wish they would atleast confirm the ACR is actually on the table.

I'm not saying all of the cars should be built like this, just offer it as a model. They really need to rethink their core buyers, the freaks that have jumped on the band wagon long before the Viper became refined. There are buyers out there that really just want the old car to reappear with the advancements that have been made over the 20 years.

I realize the motor is what it is with the software/hardware being owned by another company, it was a bad decision that we all have to live with. 700hp seems to be the limit, not a bad limit. All of the current buyers seem to really like the car, obviously they did a good job on the total package. Unfortunately going by the sales numbers, the car doesn't appeal to a huge market.

If we take the Corvette as an business case example( like it or not, it is the competition) the base model comes in around half of what the Zs sell for. The Z06 and ZR1 have never been great sellers, I'm sure somebody will post the numbers. Yet SRT came out with the equivalent first. The base model Vette is the bread and butter of that platform and the options can be added as the buyer wishes. You can order a stripped down example in the 50s, although out the door seems to be higher. That is your core buyer, you get them in the seat at a reasonable price and let them figure out what else they want. With the Viper we don't have that, it comes with 95% of the add ons stock and leaves the base price around $100,000 with diminishes the demographic of your buyer. I don't think there is a buyer here that expects to pay in the 50s for a Viper, but reality has shown they aren't jumping off their seats to pay 100k+. Base price is what's hurting this car, not the car itself.

Now lets look at the aftermarket, or lack there of. The computer in these things is a complex pain in the a$$ the aftermarket is not investing time and money into. The demand just isn't there to justify the R&D into. Now if you are selling more cars from appealing to a broader audience, the aftermarket will follow if there is money to be made.

To end this rant if people are even still reading, the car needs to have things taken away, not added IMO. They need to get the price down and it looks like they are now doing what they can to get more buyers butts where they should be. The whole tuning situation is a dead horse as far as the manufacturer is concerned, their hands are tied. Now they need to figure out how to get more of these cars on the road, so people who's hands aren't tied will pick it up from there.

Do the aero parts really need to be carbon fiber to be effective, I don't think so. Put a limited model out there with well performing aero and see how it does. And I'm not even going to get into what they charge for stripes and paint.

It's a small production, hand built car built by a passionate company. It seems like it would be an easy challenge to change the way these role off the line.

I really want one of these cars and hope they can finally build what I'm looking for.

When carving a block of ice into a bird, you remove everything that isn't the bird.

[mnc2886]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

[XSnake]

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

Performance cost $$$

[VENOM V]

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

Totally agree. If its $640k, the owners will be too afraid to drive it on the track. You'd see as many ACRs on the track as you will the $929k Porsche 918. Zero. Posers and collectors will own that silly 918.

I don't care if it breaks the Ring record if it costs $640k.

We need an ACR that is reasonable in price, that us mere mortals can buy and track. Perhaps it starts at $130k. I can't imagine it could base near the TA, so it's got to be at least $130k to cover the cost of big aero Etc. Then offer some high end options (CCB and other big improvements) to allow it to compete for Ring dominance. But the base ACR has to be reasonably priced or they won't sell and will be irrelevant like the 918.

[ViperSmith]

I think many would jump at it at $160k - max

Above that, it is a hard sell IMHO.

Unless it is blistering fast. I'd love to see it compete with the 918, but getting a sub 7-second ring lap will require some ingenuity

[Shooter]

I think many would jump at it at $160k - max

Above that, it is a hard sell IMHO.

Unless it is blistering fast. I'd love to see it compete with the 918, but getting a sub 7-second ring lap will require some ingenuity

I agree about the price, and about the sub 7- second lap. The ACR X did a 7:03. If a street legal Gen V ACR can beat that, I will be elated. And more willing to part with my hard earned money. I'm probably out of the picture though. While I can afford a $160k car, I truly doubt I would pay that.

[99RT10]

i believe it will be 150+ and very limited numbers produced. If it is in an automatic config it will be costly. But with the recent sales of the Viper the ACR's future may be unsure.

Bruce

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.

[slitherv10]

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.

What he said ^^^^^^^^^


Price it competitively with the ZR1, GTR and the 911 turbo, add a minimum 50HP more than them with better 0-60 times and quarter runs, and they will regain the spirit this car had in 1992 and 1996 and thus the respect from all the disbelievers that have come to fruition in the last year. Keep the engine format (saving money) and lighten the car up significantly, to get to the numbers financially and there will be no quam's. Adding turbo's or the like will not be cost affective. The styling and mere presence of the GT3-R car will sell itself. No need to market it as they have the Gen 5.
A 160 K price tag , Vipersmith, will leave that car in the back burner. They need to cut costs by scraping the race division and implementing the money into this new car in order for this to happen. Once off the ground and Fiat, Chrysler and the like are happy with sales and demand, they will fund the race division once again. The way things are going right now, I hate to think about what the future has in store for SRT. At 135-150K the ACR will be more affordable and trade ins from 2010 (ACR)2013,2014 cars along with earlier Gen's will be pouring in and the New car will rule the streets once again. Not the Corvettes as one thread here is advertising. Get the cars out there kicking butt and Dodge dealerships will have corvettes, mustangs, and even porsche's and our Italian friends too on their lots with for sale signs on them! I personally know of a handful of friends who sold/traded those "other cars" and put themselves in the Viper for the bragging rights (HP) back in the olden days of HP and performance. Not leather stitched this and 18 speaker that.

[Troublemaker]

What he said ^^^^^^^^^


Price it competitively with the ZR1, GTR and the 911 turbo, add a minimum 50HP more than them with better 0-60 times and quarter runs, and they will regain the spirit this car had in 1992 and 1996 and thus the respect from all the disbelievers that have come to fruition in the last year. Keep the engine format (saving money) and lighten the car up significantly, to get to the numbers financially and there will be no quam's. Adding turbo's or the like will not be cost affective. The styling and mere presence of the GT3-R car will sell itself. No need to market it as they have the Gen 5.
A 160 K price tag , Vipersmith, will leave that car in the back burner. They need to cut costs by scraping the race division and implementing the money into this new car in order for this to happen. Once off the ground and Fiat, Chrysler and the like are happy with sales and demand, they will fund the race division once again. The way things are going right now, I hate to think about what the future has in store for SRT. At 135-150K the ACR will be more affordable and trade ins from 2010 (ACR)2013,2014 cars along with earlier Gen's will be pouring in and the New car will rule the streets once again. Not the Corvettes as one thread here is advertising. Get the cars out there kicking butt and Dodge dealerships will have corvettes, mustangs, and even porsche's and our Italian friends too on their lots with for sale signs on them! I personally know of a handful of friends who sold/traded those "other cars" and put themselves in the Viper for the bragging rights (HP) back in the olden days of HP and performance. Not leather stitched this and 18 speaker that.

I think at least we are on the same page. The racing division is cool, but it just seems like they are throwing away money. That is supposed to be a test bed for future improvements, racing technology trickles down to the street cars. The only similarity I see is that is has close to same motor, although shrunk and choked.

[XSnake]

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

[99RT10]

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

We could have had that with the launch of the Gen V but Fiat CEO held Ralph's chain, not letting him go beyond the power level of Ferrari.

[ViperSmith]

We could have had that with the launch of the Gen V but Fiat CEO held Ralph's chain, not letting him go beyond the power level of Ferrari.

Ralph said that was a joke, when will you all stop perpetuating it?

[99RT10]

Ralph said that was a joke, when will you all stop perpetuating it?

The joke was launching the new car with little to no more power than the last Generation AND getting it's ass handed by a 4 year old Corvette. The joke was further "perpetuated" by such a bad showing in all the magazine shootouts/test because of the lack of preparation by SRT. The test mules showing up in the shape they did was embarrassing.

[ViperSmith]

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

It has all gotten quite comical.

Look at the price of the Viper with the budget they had. People cry that it costs $100,000 for the base SRT now (Well, people are complaining the Viper now "costs $140,000" because we all know every Viper sold has every option checked).

Yet, the R&D efforts required (which SRT could not do, because this was basically an unfunded project, people seem to completely forget) required to get the HP levels people want, would have required a substantial increase in price.

People want the ACR to do absolutely everything, but then they will complain that it carries a price tag over what the 1999 ACR costs, completely ignoring the world we live in today with other cars and performance.

Lets get real. The R&D required to match the 918, LaFerrari, P1 will require a bit of cash and it will be paid for in the terms of a higher MSRP.

Hopefully the higher MSRP means it will completely dominate everything for a fraction of the price.

I think the TA is sort of the "here is your cheaper alternative" if you want to go really fast, because the ACR is going to "break the bank" for many.

[ViperSmith]

The joke was launching the new car with little to no more power than the last Generation AND getting it's ass handed by a 4 year old Corvette. The joke was further "perpetuated" by such a bad showing in all the magazine shootouts/test because of the lack of preparation by SRT. The test mules showing up in the shape they did was embarrassing.

And with all of that, it still beats the F12 around the track.

Yep, really held back.

[99RT10]

It has all gotten quite comical.

Look at the price of the Viper with the budget they had. People cry that it costs $100,000 for the base SRT now (Well, people are complaining the Viper now "costs $140,000" because we all know every Viper sold has every option checked).

Yet, the R&D efforts required (which SRT could not do, because this was basically an unfunded project, people seem to completely forget) required to get the HP levels people want, would have required a substantial increase in price.

Yeah because it was more important to have $10K paint options or 18 speaker sound system. You know everything the Viper owner wants. Not a faster car, but better sound................

[ViperSmith]

Yeah because it was more important to have $10K paint options or 18 speaker sound system. You know everything the Viper owner wants. Not a faster car, but better sound................

The cost to offer expensive paint, an 18 speaker stereo system, and upgraded leather are drops in the bucket compared to what it would cost to rework the power train.

Come on.


Edit:
Also as a note the new GT-R has run over the ACR record http://jalopnik.com/nissan-gt-r-nism...-it-1466637336

Estimated price is around $200k. So that $95k base Nissan is commanding a $200k price to set records. The cost of the new ACR ain't going to be cheap.