Cylinder head discussion.

[Viper Specialty]

Nice work Dan , I was following this on FB . The Wilson Throttle Bodies seem like a nice option for the DIY'ers on Gen 2 and Gen 3 cars as long as they maintain good throttle response and drivability ?

There are ups and downs on this, as being a more generic product, they are not specifically designed for the Viper application. While they are easier to fit with regard to IAC [And I cannot comment on its performance as we don't use them] they are not set up for the Viper cable system specifically, so that is an area that will require some fab work by the installer. I am also not 100% sure on their TPS range compatibility, and any problems which may arise there when using an OE ECU.

[99RT10]

Highly disagree. Pumping tons of heat into a head, & hoping you don't eventually propagate a crack, is a band-aid fix. A properly engineered accessory bracket ...for an accessory... is the proper execution. I would also disagree that welding on a temp sensor boss is the proper solution. There are other solutions, and it does not include moving the sensor to the thermostat housing, which I also do not agree with technically.

Tons of heat, LOL. I guess we will have to agree to dis-agree. Greg is doing a set of Gen 3 heads for me and never considered anything other than welding. The temp sensor can be put anywhere, most just put it in front just like the stock location. I expect the engine Greg is building for me with be capable of going well above 1500 on Gen 3 heads that flow ridiculously........... with welded bosses.

[Viper Specialty]

Tons of heat, LOL. I guess we will have to agree to dis-agree. Greg is doing a set of Gen 3 heads for me and never considered anything other than welding. The temp sensor can be put anywhere, most just put it in front just like the stock location. I expect the engine Greg is building for me with be capable of going well above 1500 on Gen 3 heads that flow ridiculously........... with welded bosses.

To each their own.

I TIG weld aluminum regularly. Pumping enough heat into an aluminum cylinder head to get good penetration is no easy task, even with 300 Amps. It is a gigantic heat sink, especially right on the end, as the area is not even remotely isolated like a thin port wall or similar structure. Sure, there are ways to minimize; additional heat sinking, even more amperage and hotter mixes, etc... but its a balancing act, heat is heat. It's also always a small risk that the mounts can break off later, even on a good weld... a risk you do not have with a proper bracket. Cracks can develop from fatigue, inherent flaw, stress riser, etc. Its not as much of an issue for the head itself if Greg is doing the welding first, and then all of the head machining/seats/guides after. But for the average Joe who is looking to just weld on a set of bosses and go, its a potential can of worms, especially if "Joe Blow The Welder" handles the job.

Regardless, anyone can do it any way they want. I can understand you wanting to support your used method, but to call the "more likely to be trouble free industry standard solution" a Band-Aid... makes no sense to me.

[Greg Good]

There's nothing wrong with welding bosses on the front of the Gen 3 head for the power steering bracket. Just don't do all of the welding in one sitting. Spread it out so the head doesn't heat soak and start degrading the heat treat.

[jasond29]

Wilson throttle bodies, iac adapter, gm screw in iac. Idles great, drives great. Like mentioned above, several ways to do the conversion.
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[Dan Cragin]

It all depends on what power level you want to reach, how you use the car and if you need to pass a smog test.

This is all very subjective, so each situation requires a certain combination of parts.

A car that is raced/ tracked/drag strip run will require parts that can handle that type of use. If its a street car you can reach the same power level without those extra parts.

Everything is a balance, heads, cam, intake, exhaust, tuning all play into how you put your package together.

You can waste a lot of money not going with the right combination.

I am happy to help, without any sales talk, to put you in the right direction. 310-597-6295

[jasond29]

Glad you chimed in Dan, the cam is awesome! Sounds mean as hell and pulls hard all the way up to 6500.

[Troublemaker]

Thanks to both Dans, you help is greatly appreciated. This is just in the stages right now at looking at bang for the buck. Reliability is first and foremost with the build, that part can't be sacrificed. A quick search gives a good idea of the turn key price of the Gen4 conversion, which was immediate sticker shock. But as I have learned, by the time you factor in a complete head build including porting, the Gen3 heads would take quite a bit of money to get them up to stock 4 heads, so the price starts to fall into line. Headers need to be purchased, so they are not a deciding factor. There are lots of little details to work out, so up until I figure out a definite path, I really won't bother either of you on the phone and come across like a lost idiot.

Thanks again.

[ellowviper]

Anyone run those Jessel 1.85 ratio rockers on their GEN-IV heads? I see Roe Racing is offering them and I wanted some first-hand opinions on running them. I assume the valve covers still fit with them stuffed inside???? Also, I'm not sure the max valve lift the stock valves/springs can handle ( I believe I've read .600). I think with my cam and the 1.85 ratios, I'll be around .635 lift on my exhaust. Intake slightly less....around .620.