Cylinder head discussion.

[ViperTony]

Yes, I guess what I am trying to say is be careful and check everything else is in good shape before jumping in on ANY mod

Absolutely. Something I didn't do either but learning my lesson too.

[Troublemaker]

Yes but that has nothing to do with the GenIII heads. Look at the wear on that cam lobe he posted. He knew when he measured for pushrods that something was off and could've caught the cam wear problem then. Per Adrian " in fact, I'm certain #10 cam was excessively worn when I did the head project because that pushrod needed to be 1/8 longer!!! A warning sign I did not understand the significant of"

But now he has an excuse to do a bigger build while he's in there.

The Gen3 head/intake combo looks to be more cost effective than the Gen4 conversion, but yields lower numbers also. But there are a few 600rwhp Gen3 cars out there and that seems like a nice window to exist in, no matter what year. Running out of injector doesn't bother me as much as running out of fuel system, that's a little more of a challenge. The Cam will be swapped at the same time, so short of the rotating assembly, the top if the motor will be pretty fresh. Now to start collecting parts.

[Troublemaker]

For any of you that have used the Gen 3 intake on a Gen 2, what did you use on the air filter set up. I picked up the heads, now I need to figure out what to do about an intake manifold. The 2 and 3 manifold both seem to have limitations.

[The Stig]

what would you like to know on what it takes to mount gen 3 top end.. send me your em and I will forward my pics of the conversions

[The Stig]

Arrow and Viper speciality manufacture the PS bracket for the conversion

[Viper Specialty]

Arrow and Viper speciality manufacture the PS bracket for the conversion

Yup. But please be aware they are drastically different designs. Arrow's is 1-peice, steel, and triangulates to the A/C mount on the block... problem for A/C equipped cars as its in the way of the compressor without modifications. Ours is 2-piece, aluminum, and triangulates to the engine lift bracket point. Also worth noting is that our triangulation bracket is designed for Gen-4 heads. I have never compared the lift point of a 3 and 4, but I would expect they would be very close if not identical in placement.

[Troublemaker]

These heads have already have the mounts welded up for the PS and the temp sensor. What I am more curious about is which one of the manifolds to use, neither seem ideal. As much as I wanted to do the Gen4 conversion, this is a winter project that I am going to build myself, that didn't seem to be a feasible option for DIY. I have actually spent a lot of time on the truck forums as they seem to build quite a few NA motors. Most of this is straight forward, the air filter set up still has to be worked out.

[J TNT]

Would be great to see if someone could do a Gen 5 intake , on Gen 4 heads on a Gen 3 And plastic weld the Intake for the IAC sensor And use the stock pcm. With Wilson throttle bodies

[Greg Good]

Would be great to see if someone could do a Gen 5 intake , on Gen 4 heads on a Gen 3 And plastic weld the Intake for the IAC sensor And use the stock pcm. With Wilson throttle bodies

An SRT-10 truck owner did it recently. It made 860 flywheel on 91 octane.

[J TNT]

Thanks Greg ! I'll have to look it up on utube.
Any idea who his source was to modify the intake to accept the stock IAC sensor ?

[Greg Good]

Thanks Greg ! I'll have to look it up on utube.
Any idea who his source was to modify the intake to accept the stock IAC sensor ?

I ported the intake but I'll have to ask him what he did about the IAC sensor. There is a thread about the engine on the VTCOA site.

Here's the youtube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWXbsyYR-8g

[Troublemaker]

An SRT-10 truck owner did it recently. It made 860 flywheel on 91 octane.

That's amazing. The truck guys definitely seem more into modifying, there's no doubt.

[Greg Good]

That's amazing. The truck guys definitely seem more into modifying, there's no doubt.

Trainman isn't the typical SRT-10 owner. He does everything to the max. I'd kind of like to see him get a Viper car.

[99RT10]

These heads have already have the mounts welded up for the PS and the temp sensor. What I am more curious about is which one of the manifolds to use, neither seem ideal. As much as I wanted to do the Gen4 conversion, this is a winter project that I am going to build myself, that didn't seem to be a feasible option for DIY. I have actually spent a lot of time on the truck forums as they seem to build quite a few NA motors. Most of this is straight forward, the air filter set up still has to be worked out.

Welding the p/s bosses and temp bracket is the only proper way to do it. Others are a band-aid fix.

[J TNT]

Thanks Greg ! That's an awesome combination !!! And yes a Viper car version would do well !!!

[Viper Specialty]

Any idea who his source was to modify the intake to accept the stock IAC sensor ?

He didn't, he used Wilson Throttles with built-in IAC provisions. Its always an option, but I personally don't like the layout, its very "generic" I guess you could say.

[Viper Specialty]

Would be great to see if someone could do a Gen 5 intake , on Gen 4 heads on a Gen 3 And plastic weld the Intake for the IAC sensor And use the stock pcm. With Wilson throttle bodies

I am just going to leave this here

Not exactly what you are asking, but close. Gen-5 Manifold, Gen-5 Heads, Gen-4/5 Front/Lower & Accessories, Gen-3 VS-1500 Block, and our new DBW Wiggins throttles.

[IndyRon]

I am just going to leave this here

Not exactly what you are asking, but close. Gen-5 Manifold, Gen-5 Heads, Gen-4 peripherals, Gen-3 VS-1500 Block, and our new DBW Wiggins throttles.

Dan,
Tell us about those throttle bodies? Size compared to stock? Power gains on a bolt-on car? Cost? Etc. This is the first that I've seen them.

[Viper Specialty]

Dan,
Tell us about those throttle bodies? Size compared to stock? Power gains on a bolt-on car? Cost? Etc. This is the first that I've seen them.

Ron-

I don't want to turn this into an advertisement as I am not sponsoring here until I get situated down south and start taking on new work again, but here is the short gist of it:

They are based on the '15 throttle body design, and are the same "size" as 15's. They are designed for Forced Induction use, hence the addition and use of Wiggins flanges and clamps. They are not designed for power gain as much as they are appearance, ease of disassembly, and most of all, being able to withstand FI applications without fear of intake tube separation and boost leaks. They are offered with the components needed to fit onto a 2008-2014 application. In this particular case they are going on a V10-TT Resto-Mod with a Pectel system and a full MIL wiring harness.

[Greg Good]

He didn't, he used Wilson Throttles with built-in IAC provisions. Its always an option, but I personally don't like the layout, its very "generic" I guess you could say.

Pretty is as pretty does.

[Viper Specialty]

Pretty is as pretty does.

To each their own, they get the job done. No denying that build is a monster for NA.

[Viper Specialty]

Welding the p/s bosses and temp bracket is the only proper way to do it. Others are a band-aid fix.

Highly disagree. Pumping tons of heat into a head, & hoping you don't eventually propagate a crack, is a band-aid fix. A properly engineered accessory bracket ...for an accessory... is the proper execution. I would also disagree that welding on a temp sensor boss is the proper solution. There are other solutions, and it does not include moving the sensor to the thermostat housing, which I also do not agree with technically.

[Troublemaker]

Highly disagree. Pumping tons of heat into a head, & hoping you don't eventually propagate a crack, is a band-aid fix. A properly engineered accessory bracket ...for an accessory... is the proper execution. I would also disagree that welding on a temp sensor boss is the proper solution. There are other solutions, and it does not include moving the sensor to the thermostat housing, which I also do not agree with technically.

You really aren't making this easy on me. I have really wanted a Gen4 top end, but I'm such a cheap ass. I really need to scrounge up some money, how have the Gen2/4 hybrids turned out?

[J TNT]

Nice work Dan , I was following this on FB . The Wilson Throttle Bodies seem like a nice option for the DIY'ers on Gen 2 and Gen 3 cars as long as they maintain good throttle response and drivability ?

I am just going to leave this here

Not exactly what you are asking, but close. Gen-5 Manifold, Gen-5 Heads, Gen-4/5 Front/Lower & Accessories, Gen-3 VS-1500 Block, and our new DBW Wiggins throttles.

[Viper Specialty]

You really aren't making this easy on me. I have really wanted a Gen4 top end, but I'm such a cheap ass. I really need to scrounge up some money, how have the Gen2/4 hybrids turned out?

I am actually in the throws of fitting the last square peg into a round hole on the first [the Airbox], and have already inventoried the second Gen-2 version which will be built immediately after this one- its going to be a black/yellow/polished setup for a Yellow 2001 ACR. The car runs, and sounds fantastic. This one has a few less cubes than the Gen-3 version, but has a more aggressive camshaft, so I am curious how the numbers will turn out. I expect similar or better, as the cam should make up the cubes and then some.