Cylinder head discussion.

[Troublemaker]

I have done quite a bit of searching, but it's some older material and I was curious to see what has been done and what results have been less than stellar on Head swaps and porting.

Unfortunately there was great thread on VCA that started out very informative and turned into arguing so the information given was left too open ended.

I was looking to purchase a newer car but after doing a couple rounds of mods and liking the results I am going to continue dumping money in this car for the time being. Strikers look to have left the market, Gen2 heads have limited potential, Gen3 heads on a Gen2 looks promising with a little bit of work, Gen4 top end swap has the most potential, but really isn't a DIY type swap which is what I'm after.

So let's hear what you are glad you've done as well as what you wouldn't do again.

[plumcrazy]

all depends on your end goals. id bet a good set of GG gen2 heads are more than adequate for you.

[Troublemaker]

all depends on your end goals. id bet a good set of GG gen2 heads are more than adequate for you.

End goal is high 120 trap speed with decent drivability. Thanks for not thinking much of me, a good motivational pep talk in the morning always helps. My thought process is what gives the best bang for the buck, the porting will cost about the same, so do Gen3 heads have more potential than Gen2s. From what I have read, yes and the heads and intake can be picked up cheap. I don't have headers yet do that won't sway me and throttle bodies are cheap. When the top end is off a Cam is easy, so that won't be a game breaker either.

[99RT10]

Gen 3 s will flow a little better than the Gen IIs. Generaly the Gen II heads will get 310-315 CFM on a .600" lift. The Gen 3 will see about 340 CFM. with a well matched camshaft and 1.7 RR, you should see 550+ on the Gen 2 Heads. A little more.on the Gen 3. Check your PMs.

[99RT10]

http://driveviper.com/classifieds/en...ent-shape.html.

Also remember if you go with a set of Gen 3 heads, you will need a custom set of headers since mounting flange is different from Gen 2 to Gen 3. Plus about $800 of custom welding on the heads to put the p/s brackets and temp senders in place correctly.

[Troublemaker]

This is the kind of answers I was looking for. I knew the heads needed to work, but the headers are something I wasn't familiar with. I will be a Winter build as the car has been down too much this Summer and I don't want it down anymore.

[plumcrazy]

lol, i was talking about if you wanted to go NA, Sc or TT in the future and what you were planning on doing with the car. to trap 120 you can do that stock or nearly stock so any head/cam swap will be fine.

[99RT10]

Agreed, assuming you have a Gen II, heads and cam will get you well into the 130's with the supporting mods. .

[Troublemaker]

lol, i was talking about if you wanted to go NA, Sc or TT in the future and what you were planning on doing with the car. to trap 120 you can do that stock or nearly stock so any head/cam swap will be fine.

That was a typo, I forgot an s, so it should say high 120s. If it goes faster, great. But that will make me smile for a while. While I have no intention of FI, the power that makes you smile today, can get boring tomorrow and a SC might be in the future. But right now let's leave it as a healthy NA car. The clutch that I just had installed should hold up to a lot more so I am trying to get my ducks in a row and start to weed out week links. Throwing parts and money at these things is a sickness, that I can already see.

But from what I am seeing so far, the casting of the Gen3 heads doesn't seem to have as many variables is the Gen2 and it looks like the porting can get a little more aggressive. All I can do is regurgitate what I have read as I have no personal knowledge, so right now I am just trying to learn all I can.

[jasond29]

yeah I tapped 122 with just full exhaust intake and a tune, ported Gen 2 heads and nice cam will easily get you where you want to be. My understanding was that a Gen 3 head is just a Ported Gen 2 head and just a better casting all around. Cam choice and compression will really make your combo shine whatever it is.

[Troublemaker]

yeah I tapped 122 with just full exhaust intake and a tune, ported Gen 2 heads and nice cam will easily get you where you want to be. My understanding was that a Gen 3 head is just a Ported Gen 2 head and just a better casting all around. Cam choice and compression will really make your combo shine whatever it is.

This is where the law of diminishing returns sets in and you have to figure out how much you want to spend vs. what you get for it.

The Gen2 intake starts to become the bottle neck. The Gen3 with some port works look to pick up some volume which it lacks stock. It's still a short runner intake, but looks like it can be worked with.

[The Stig]

I went gen 3 heads with mild work on gen 2 bottom end .I made a jig up from my gen 2 head and had spacers made for PS pump and fit perfectly under 150 dollars to complete- used M&M gen 3 headers for my exhaust. temp sensor I added a 1/4 alum welded section band to thermostat neck and tapped it for 3/8 npt inserted the sensor there

[Troublemaker]

Can you tell me a little more about the PS set up? Very nice car.

[100]

I went gen 3 heads with mild work on gen 2 bottom end .I made a jig up from my gen 2 head and had spacers made for PS pump and fit perfectly under 150 dollars to complete- used M&M gen 3 headers for my exhaust. temp sensor I added a 1/4 alum welded section band to thermostat neck and tapped it for 3/8 npt inserted the sensor there

TIGHT -- that's a smart guy!

[Troublemaker]

TIGHT -- that's a smart guy!

Yeah, no sh!t. I'm more of a wrench turner that a fabricator, so the welding is something I will let someone else do.

[Troublemaker]

Has anyone tried Gen4 heads with a Gen5 intake on a Gen2? I know a couple of 3/4 monsters are cruising around, but I did hear that a 2/4 was in the works. Right now just weighing the options, but drivability needs to stay as close to stock as possible so large cams won't fit the mold.

[plumcrazy]

are you trying to make things more difficult ? you are not looking for a crazy end result, go with tried and true (and affordable) no need to reinvent the wheel IMO.

[Troublemaker]

Of course I'm trying to make it difficult, if it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is. I know a few on here some mutants under the hood, and the more I think about it the more I will regret not doing my homework and do it right the first time. I just think the gen2 intake has limited potential on an NA build, so that's where I stated to think about alternate options. I am going to sit back and wait on a new car, so what better way to burn money than to build a motor.

[jasond29]

I am in the process of doing the gen 4 conversion on my gen 2. Still gathering some misc parts. I will post what I spent in the conversion and the results when done. I am doing it for 2 reasons, looks and power. I am shooting for as close to 700rwhp as possible, I think it's doable. We will see I guess

[IndyRon]

Gen 3 s will flow a little better than the Gen IIs. Generaly the Gen II heads will get 310-315 CFM on a .600" lift. The Gen 3 will see about 340 CFM. with a well matched camshaft and 1.7 RR, you should see 550+ on the Gen 2 Heads. A little more.on the Gen 3. Check your PMs.

Great info. Any idea how the Gen 4 heads flow stock and ported compared to the Gen 3?

[Fatboy 18]

Adrian in the UK, fitted Gen 3 heads on his Gen II, but after a while ran into some issues
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...ghlight=madmax

He is now facing a large bill and another rebuild!

[jasond29]

I think I have read that the gen3 head flows in the 310-320 area and the gen 4 head flows in the 350-360 range unported

[ViperTony]

In 2010, I did the Greg Good treatment. I sent my GenII heads to him so he could work his magic on them. At the time, they were the highest flowing GenII heads me produced at 330 cfm. I also went with his custom cam. The heads and cam added 120rwhp to my Viper. I then had Greg port my GenII intake and I added 70mm TB's. During my last dyno/tuning session in May, I was at 560rwhp/560ish rwtq on a Mustang dyno but my AFR was pig rich at WOT @ 8-9AFR and very lean down low. I found that my lifters had gone soft and was hurting lift. I found a couple of exhaust leaks. I since remedied that. I also removed my cats. Going back for final tuning in a week or two. Its feels insane. The torque is nuts. It pulls insanely and has done so since Day 1.

But on a GenII, if you're not getting at least 550rwhp on Greg Good ported heads and his cam (headers and exhaust) something isn't right.

I'm so happy with his work that I'm pulling my block this coming winter and having him build up the bottom end.

If I were to do it again today, I'd get a set of GenIII heads and GenIII intake, send it to Greg and let him do his magic. I haven't much info posted about what this combination generates in terms if power/torque/trap speeds but I have to imagine it's better than what I'm producing. I'd imagine that running out of injector would occur at this level.

Oh, I have ZERO drivability issues with my GG Cam. None.

[ViperTony]

Adrian in the UK, fitted Gen 3 heads on his Gen II, but after a while ran into some issues
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...ghlight=madmax

He is now facing a large bill and another rebuild!

Yes but that has nothing to do with the GenIII heads. Look at the wear on that cam lobe he posted. He knew when he measured for pushrods that something was off and could've caught the cam wear problem then. Per Adrian " in fact, I'm certain #10 cam was excessively worn when I did the head project because that pushrod needed to be 1/8 longer!!! A warning sign I did not understand the significant of"

But now he has an excuse to do a bigger build while he's in there.

[Fatboy 18]

Yes, I guess what I am trying to say is be careful and check everything else is in good shape before jumping in on ANY mod