Classifed Ad Restriction

[ACRucrazy]

Please be advised that all forum members are now being restricted to a maximum of 3 classified advertisements at any one time. There is presently no restriction on the total number of ads, so as long as you keep your ad total to not more than 3 (at any one time), you can replace any of those three at any time.

We will allow your EXISTING ads to continue, however any NEW ads will are prohibited (and will be removed) until your total is reduced to 3.

Extenuating "hardship cases" (such as the need to parting out totaled vehicle) will be considered. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM any of the moderators.

This message is being sent to all, and only those, that are presently over the limit.

City/Scott

I received this PM. Who voted to "add this rule" and why?
I have never been on a forum that restricts the number of ads a member can make, let alone a paying forum/club member.
I guess you can chalk me up as one who disagrees with it 100%. It wasn't a rule when I signed up, it wasn't a rule when I paid my membership dues.

[whitebeard]

Moving thread to correct location, leaving redirect in place.

[99RT10]

I received this PM. Who voted to "add this rule" and why?
I have never been on a forum that restricts the number of ads a member can make, let alone a paying forum/club member.
I guess you can chalk me up as one who disagrees with it 100%. It wasn't a rule when I signed up, it wasn't a rule when I paid my membership dues.

Seems one of the sponsors has a two handed grip on the VOA officer's balls and are squeezing tight. This will be my only year in the club. December comes around, I'm out.

[Red Snake]

Its ok Mike, the Alley will let you place as many as you want. No charge, lol.

[KickinAssphault]

In the interest of transparency; when? why? what justification?

[plumcrazy]

Its ok Mike, the Alley will let you place as many as you want. No charge, lol.

another trouble maker !

[XSnake]

In the interest of transparency; when? why? what justification?

It keeps people from bypassing the sponsorship fees. A couple members buy and part out cars for profit. When you start operating as a business the rules for individuals no longer apply.

[Nine Ball]

If it were up to me, I'd only allow paying members to post ads here, period. With no limit. But, if they are actually a business, they need to pay for advertising like the rest of us.

[Janni]

The classified ads are for members to sell thing to members. The expectation here is that you are on "equal footing" when it comes to the transaction - i.e. member to member. Not business to member unless you identify yourself as a business, and, as Nineball says above, pay for advertising.

For example - I might have some 1996 takeoff cast iron exhaust manifolds, left over from our 1996 days. If I sell them (ha! who would want them?) to another member - it's a pretty simple transaction between 2 "average Viper Joe's". If the limit is oppressive to an average Viper owner - we can revisit.

We're reviewing all the advertising policies, linking policies, etc as part of the discussion that took place regarding the link to the non-sponsor.

[Shooter]

If it were up to me, I'd only allow paying members to post ads here, period. With no limit. But, if they are actually a business, they need to pay for advertising like the rest of us.

Sounds like a good idea to vote on.

[ACRucrazy]

If it were up to me, I'd only allow paying members to post ads here, period. With no limit. But, if they are actually a business, they need to pay for advertising like the rest of us.

Why are the Viper forums the only forums I have ever been on that have a requirement to either pay per ad or pay for membership to post classifieds? If not that there is a restriction on the number of ads? I find it ridiculous.

It's becoming apparent to me memebers are not as important as "sponsors" being paying members or non paying. It's so ass backwards to me. Create a welcoming place that focuses on members and those sponsors that choose to advertise will benefit. Create a place that restricts members or forces people to pay or puts paying sponsors before active members weather they choose to pay dues or not and you will hurt your club.

Why does this always have to be about the money?????

[Nine Ball]

Why are the Viper forums the only forums I have ever been on that have a requirement to either pay per ad or pay for membership to post classifieds? If not that there is a restriction on the number of ads? I find it ridiculous.

1. Because this is a paid membership club. There should be incentives to being a member. Most forums are funded solely by ads.
2. I also find any restriction on ad count somewhat silly, because there might be a few crazy Viper guys out there with 100s of parts to clear out of their collection of stuff, which could benefit the rest of the members.

[XSnake]

2. I also find any restriction on ad count somewhat silly, because there might be a few crazy Viper guys out there with 100s of parts to clear out of their collection of stuff, which could benefit the rest of the members.

The original PM that the OP got also mentioned that "Extenuating circumstances' can and will arise which will be reviewed. This rule is aimed directly at the people that are acting and selling parts as a business for profit under membership status. If someone wrecks their car and is doing a part out then they obviously will be given an exemption as it says in the original PM. I do feel that 3 is a little low, should be 5 IMO.

[Granger73]

A vote sounds like a good idea. Can't believe this is in the best interest of paying members. It would be nice to see some disclosure as to what ad revenue amounts to, and what it is allocated for. Is it a ton of money? Be good to know.

[99RT10]

The original PM that the OP got also mentioned that "Extenuating circumstances' can and will arise which will be reviewed. This rule is aimed directly at the people that are acting and selling parts as a business for profit under membership status. If someone wrecks their car and is doing a part out then they obviously will be given an exemption as it says in the original PM. I do feel that 3 is a little low, should be 5 IMO.

So it's ok for some that wrecks their car to part it out for two years or more UN-restricted to flood the classifieds, but for any other PAYING member that wants to put 4 things or more for sale, it's not? Really?! Why 5, Maybe it needs to be only 1 at a time, and only after getting approval from the BOD?

[99RT10]

I received this PM. Who voted to "add this rule" and why?
I have never been on a forum that restricts the number of ads a member can make, let alone a paying forum/club member.
I guess you can chalk me up as one who disagrees with it 100%. It wasn't a rule when I signed up, it wasn't a rule when I paid my membership dues.

I know who didn't, but their concerns were tossed out like smelly trash.

[BlknBlu]

This is a great discussion and deserves to be looked at. I am sure this will be brought up at the next officers meeting.

Bruce

[Janni]

So it's okay to have a member have unlimited free access to classifieds if they have a business buying and selling cars / parts / etc.? And they don't have to identify themselves as being in business, they can just be an average Joe selling a take off from their Viper?

Just trying to get your baseline here.

[XSnake]

So it's ok for some that wrecks their car to part it out for two years or more UN-restricted to flood the classifieds, but for any other PAYING member that wants to put 4 things or more for sale, it's not? Really?! Why 5, Maybe it needs to be only 1 at a time, and only after getting approval from the BOD?

Yes it is. It was THEIR car and it's THEIR time. Who parts their car out for 2 years anyways? If you are doing a part out then one should put everything into one thread. It's much easier to manage. When people start parting out multiple cars then they are a really shitty driver or they are operating a business. I'm all for unlimited classifieds for paying members as long as they aren't operating a business.

[Nine Ball]

No. Edited version below.

So it's okay to have a paying member have unlimited free access to classifieds. If they have a business buying and selling cars / parts / etc., they do have to identify themselves as being in business, or if they are found out to be associated with a business, they would simply need to sign on for advertising.

Just trying to get your baseline here.

It really shouldn't be this difficult. Simple.

Paid membership = unlimited ads
Guest members = zero ads
Business related = cough up the sponsorship dollars

[IndyRon]

I just wish the forum were more self-policing via the other members without the need for VOA mod/admin/coordinator/executive intervention.

[FLATOUT]

I just wish the forum were more self-policing via the other members without the need for VOA mod/admin/coordinator/executive intervention.

I agree and I think some of these discussions are a good thing. You didn't get any discussion at the old site. I'm sure it will be discussed and I'm sure it will become evident if someone is abusing the system. All I ask is if you know you're abusing the system don't cry when they call you out and ask you to pay advertising dollars.

I know right now I personally have parts left over from my gen 3, and 4 that I need to garage sale out to clean out the garage so 3 ads wouldn't do me me any good either if I chose to list everything at once.

[ACRucrazy]

Again, I don't get it. It sounds like some of the sponsors who CHOSE to pay to sponsor the site, have banners, and CHOSE to advertise in 4 magazines a year are the ones who are causing issues for the MEMBERS

I am sorry. The members make this club, make this site. The members come first. $$$$ is coming before the members. And that is wrong! You chose to advertise on this forum and sponsor it. You do not pay to restrict members. When $$$ and vendors/sponsor $$$ comes before members that's where I draw the line.

Just because someone chooses not to pay to be a member, chooses not to pay to get the following:
-VIPER QUARTERLY Magazine, the full color collectible magazine for Dodge and SRT Viper enthusiasts and the official publication of the Viper Owners Association
-Your 2014 VOA membership card(s) and ID Badge(s)
-Liability ins with Viper Owners Association sponsors including many Mopar dealers, tuners, and aftermarket vendors
-Special membership-only access and posting benefits on the Viper Owners Association Website www.driveviper.com
-Viper Owners will also be noted on the website forum pages with the designation of "Member", non-owners will be noted as an "Enthusiast"
-Involvement with a VOA Chapter in your area. Contact your local president for a schedule of events and more details.
-Highly unprecedented access to our manufacturer and those who build our cars.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be restricted from posting outside links or items for sale. You take away forum members (not paying members) you hurt the forum and club. You hurt the forum and club you hurt the vendors and sponsor who CHOSE to pay and advertise. It doesn't work the other way around. Members are the most important...

[Janni]

Ron - that's always a great idea - until there is a disagreement. And then the folks that don't "win" claim unfairness, corruption, old club vibes, stacking the deck, etc.

At some point - some decisions have to be made and they are going to be unpopular with some folks.

I am totally open to discussion on this issue - and so far - NineBall is the only person that has proposed an alternative that could be implemented. Even the folks that have the main issue here will not propose something that would have a little more balance. So it's hard to have open dialogue when the talk is so inflammatory "but their concerns were tossed out like smelly trash" or "Why does this always have to be about the money?????" where it's implied that someone (who?) is being motivated by money. Seriously? Let's go straight to the disparaging comments.

I really don't CARE about the money for things like classified ads - like I said prior - I care more about disclosing the nature of the transaction between 2 members - whether it's a business transaction for both, or whether it's a business transaction for just one.

Like I said - open to discussion as I know the rest of the officers and web committee are - but we all need to be open and honest.

i'll check with Brad also about getting some more financial statements that shows some of the income and expenses. Fair ask.

[ACRucrazy]

Where is implied that someone is being motivated by the money?


How is that not obvious? It's clear that the VOA is making changes because "its not fair to the sponsors"

What are sponsors? They may pay big money to advertise in 4 mags a year or on the website.

So... How is it NOT about the money?

And the fact that some of these rules are just being changed without the members input half way through the year is wrong. I paid to be part of a better club.. lately I feel like the club is taking away from me for the sake of some sour sponsors.

If you don't like the fact that members may sell more than 3 items at a time or post links that are not to your web store I don't want you as a sponsor. Life ain't fair, you can't have it all.