Classifed Ad Restriction

[Granger73]

I think ViperTony has nailed it. Every possible effort to provide part sources for members should be made. It will get tougher to come up with these parts as time goes by. This should be the "go to" destination to find Viper parts.

[ACRucrazy]

The VCA and if VOA does the same, would be the only forums I have ever been on that charge forum members (not paying members) to sell in the classifieds.

Getting "free classifieds" for paying members is a benefit only if we say it is and accept it. We already pay "Viper Tax" by owning a Viper. Why should we have to pay "Viper Tax" on our own website? Makes no sense.

[ViperTony]

I couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests paying for ads. I'm more concerned with paying members.

[ACRucrazy]

I couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests paying for ads. I'm more concerned with paying members.

So if someone doesn't pay, they are guests to you. Got it.

[ViperTony]

So if someone doesn't pay, they are guests to you. Got it.

Pay for what?

[ACRucrazy]

To be a member? I guess I am misunderstanding your who you are calling guests.

[ViperTony]

To be a member? I guess I am misunderstanding your who you are calling guests.

Correct. I believe the free classifieds should be a member benefit. Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

Can't we all just meet up somewhere, drink some beers and hash this out? I hope some of you will be in Detroit. Randall said he'd buy rounds of beers for us in Detroit while we work this out. True story.

[ACRucrazy]

Correct. I believe the free classifieds should be a member benefit. Hopefully that clarifies it a bit.

Can't we all just meet up somewhere, drink some beers and hash this out? I hope some of you will be in Detroit. Randall said he'd buy rounds of beers for us in Detroit while we work this out. True story.

I am a paying member. And in my opinion, getting free classifieds is not a "benefit" I should have to pay for. Being a Viper owner and forum member who participates and shares the enthusiasm for a special car is all that should be required to sell in the classifieds. Just because I pay to be a member doesn't mean I will complain to mods or presidents that someone who doesn't pay can do it for free.

Like I said, the Viper forums are the ONLY forums I have ever been on that have required its active members to PAY to sell items. That makes no sense. It's a Viper Tax. It's not needed.

I do not look down upon forum members who choose not to pay. If they own a Viper, share enthusiasm and participates on the forums is the only prerequisite to receive respect and equal treatment from me.

And I find it completely out of line that a Regional President "couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests"

"Guests" make the VOA. I will be in Detroit, my car won't be hard to miss. I will gladly share my opinion if asked. But my opinion won't change from what I have already shared here.

[ViperTony]

And I find it completely out of line that a Regional President "couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests"

That's not what I wrote. I clearly wrote "I couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests paying for ads. I'm more concerned with paying members."

If my posts bother you, you have the option of ignoring my posts. Otherwise, I couldn't give two shits about that either.

[ACRucrazy]

That's not what I wrote. I clearly wrote "I couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests paying for ads. I'm more concerned with paying members."

If my posts bother you, you have the option of ignoring my posts. Otherwise, I couldn't give two shits about that either.

1. Since when are forum members "guests"
2. Why is a forum member less important to you?

[ViperTony]

1. Since when are forum members "guests"

They're Enthusiasts actually. This site exists because of the club, the Viper Owner's Association. The VOA is graciously allowing Enthusiasts to be guests on our club's website.

2. Why is a forum member less important to you?

I don't see non-club members or Enthusiasts as any less or more important to me. I guess if they're a douche-bag then anyone in that regard is certainly less important to me. Can you phrase your question with more detail? Less important than what? I'm not following.

But I believe the classifieds should be free for paying VOA club members as I believe it is a benefit of being a member of the VOA. Non-club members should pay to use that benefit provided by the VOA.

[Bugman Jeff]

We have to remember that we are a club formed around a nice vehicle with very little aftermarket support. Parts are hard to come by especially for older generation Vipers. We are also a community whereby we have members that are creative enough to invent diffuser blades (as an example) with little-no margin for the sake of hobby and helping fellow Viper owners. Members support members. Often times, it's niche products that no other sponsor offers or competes against. We need this support from our members and we should be encouraging members to post up products they think will help the Viper community. We don't have the luxury of being a mass-produced vehicle with mass-produced sponsors/vendors/after-market products.

This. If I make a Thingamagig for my Viper, I'm making it because I can't buy one. If I need it and can't buy it, there is a good chance that others need it and can't buy it too. I've already got the mold, design, etc and can produce it to sell to others. Profit is not my motive, the only reason I'd charge for the part is to recoup my costs and pay for my time. I'm not trying to get something for nothing by screwing the paying sponsors, I'm trying to to provide the community with options they wouldn't otherwise have had without putting myself in the hole.

I actually do make and sell a part on another(non-car) forum. In that case, it is an "I have the molds already and can easily make more parts" situation. I didn't make the original part with the idea of selling more, I made it because it was something I wanted for myself. After the first dozen were sold, I was at break even on my R&D costs. On each additional one I've sold, I've made $5 profit. If I had to pay for membership on that forum to sell my parts, I'd still be in the hole $60, and there isn't enough future demand for my parts to cover that. I could easily have doubled the price and still sold almost as many, but that's not why I produce them. I know that's how business works in the real world, but for me, I don't sell them to make a profit, I sell them to help out the community. Paying the forum to sell them would be the difference between my making a small profit, or not offering an otherwise unavailable product to the community at all. No one wins in that scenario.

[ACRucrazy]

But I believe the classifieds should be free for paying VOA club members as I believe it is a benefit of being a member of the VOA. Non-club members should pay to use that benefit provided by the VOA.

And this is where our beliefs differ.

Being a Viper owner who participates on the forums and shares enthusiasm for a special car should all that is required to sell. Making "enthusiasts" ( That term is a whole other topic I disagree with) pay to sell could mean they may just not sell what they have. And with a small community with little parts that is not what we need.

Maybe a discussion for beers.

[City]

Regardless, it's our enforcement of these rules that is problematic. In this case, please comment on how we are to make a determination between "Paid Membership" and "Business Related". THAT is how this all began.

There's a great deal of tangential discussion going on here. We've never suggested charging for classified ads. If that alternative is part of master plan regarding on site advertising, we might want to leave that for the moment.

I'd like more specific comments on how the moderators are to make a determination between commercial and non-commercial (non-sponsor) forum members that are advertising viper parts/accessories. Please suggest the criteria which we can use to make the determination between non-commercial (hobbyist) vs. commercial. "Hobbyist advertisers" posting suggestions might want to consider role reversal, i.e., consider yourself a commercial site sponsor selling Viper parts/accessories and paying sponsor fees. Consider your comments from the opposite point of view as if you were addressing a "hobbyist advertiser" that was impinging on your business.

[ViperTony]

I'd like more specific comments on how the moderators are to make a determination between commercial and non-commercial (non-sponsor) forum members that are advertising viper parts/accessories. Please suggest the criteria which we can use to make the determination between non-commercial (hobbyist) vs. commercial. "Hobbyist advertisers" posting suggestions might want to consider role reversal, i.e., consider yourself a commercial site sponsor selling Viper parts/accessories and paying sponsor fees. Consider your comments from the opposite point of view as if you were addressing a "hobbyist advertiser" that was impinging on your business.

OK. Maybe trying to define via some real-world scenarios may help.

Scenario #1: Tony's Auto World

I am BrickHouse Viper. I am a paying sponsor here and often advertise my Vipers for sale. I happen to see a Viper(s) for sale in the VOA classifieds from Tony's Auto World. I report it to the mods. The mods look up Tony's Auto World and see that it's a commercial auto sales business. Further, title says "Enthusiast". It's a commercial auto sales business. I call the number in the Ad and confirm Brickhouse's suspicions. I remove the ad and alert Tony's Auto World.

I am BrickHouse Viper. I am a paying sponsor here and often advertise my Vipers for sale. I happen to see a Viper for sale in the VOA classifieds from member MyAssHurts. MyAssHurts is a member, doesn't appear to be in the Viper sales business. Ad states she's upgrading to a new Viper. I don't report anything. I'm OK.

Scenario #2: Michele's Parts Hoarding

I am Big Ass Automotive. I sell parts, a lot of them, from parted-out Vipers. I happen to stumble across the classifieds and see one or more ads from Michele, a VOA member. Michele seems to be parting out a Viper and has list one or more ads detailing the parts she's trying to sell. I'm not sure if Michele is really a business or just a member trying to make an extra buck. To be sure, I alert the mods. I, a mod, check out the ad. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. But, to be sure, I call Michele and ask her if she's running a business that sells Viper parts or just parting out a Viper for the fun of it. I let her know that we require businesses that wish to sell parts here to become a sponsor. She understand but states it doesn't apply to her since this is a one-time project. I let Big Ass automotive know my findings. Big Ass automotive is thankful for the followup.

Scenario #3: PrincessSnake's Curb Feelers

A Yellow Viper owner/member PrincessSnake (the fastest kind of Viper) decided to make one-off customs curb feelers for her Viper using wire from Home Despot and JB Weld in his home garage. Excited, she asks if any of her fellow Viper owners would like them too. Seeing as there's interest, she offers a few sets to be made for a nominal fee. ViperDustBin, a paying site sponsor, spots the feelers thread. Curious, Johanna from ViperDustBin looks into the thread. Seeing as Johanna does not sell Viper curb feelers and is not competing on curb feelers Johanna is relieved and actually offers to help sell the curb feelers on her site.

Scenario #4: Flatulent Air Ducts

Commercial business (FlatulentAir) and site sponsor selling an intake duct modification that allegedly adds 10rwhp to Vipers. Willy, a member, lists a classified ad for 10 sets of a newly-designed intake duct modifications he "found" in the VOA classifieds. Although she will take your money and never ship you the product because her shipping girl died (suddenly like right now).... Stephanie from FlatulentAir reports the ad to the moderators. A moderator, AsianDelight, looks into ad and questions the number of intake ducts for sale even though the member states "I'm not a business" and "not in Texas" in the ad. Not satisfied, Asian Delight calls the member. Willy swears that he's not pulling a fast one over on AsianDelight. Willy happened to "find" the ducts and wants to get rid of them. AsianDelight is satisfied with the explanation and moves on.

Later, someone alerts AsianDelight that Willy is really a business that makes knock-off parts overseas and uses various aliases on websites to get around fees for placing ads. Kindly, the person sends AsianDelight proof of this. AsianDelight verifies.

With blind rage and feeling as he was just teased by a group of young, horny Asian girls who stole his wallet during a lap-dance....AsianDelight drives to Willy's business. Nobody knows what happened next but Willy moved locations in Texas and was never found again. Coincidentally, Willy's never heard from again and his ads are gone.

[ACRucrazy]

I have no idea what just happened. But it was amazing.

[Shooter]

Wtf?

[Red Snake]

lol, how does something so simple become a 6 page thread and culminate with someones big ass hurting?

[CarolinaViper]

Great examples...Just wondering if "PrincessSnake is a transvestite? Not because she had a yellow Viper, but because "She" builds things with "wire from Home Despot and JB Weld in "HIS" home garage. Just trying to add a little humor...hope you guys meet up next week and work things out over beers or new keys to a VIPER. Someone there is going to be a winner of a nice new VIPER...won't be me unfortunately, I will be at the beach with my three favorite girls. Four if you count the dog.

[IndyRon]

I couldn't give two shits about the feelings of guests paying for ads. I'm more concerned with paying members.

WAY too exclusionist and elitist man. If you drive a viper, you belong on this forum and actively participating IMHO.

[XSnake]

I want to nominate post #140 for post of the year

[whitebeard]

Is "Flatulent Air Ducts" for sale? I'd like to buy the company.

I even have a mascot

[KNG SNKE]

Just to throw a slight bit of fuel in the fire there are plenty of "enthusiasts" on this forum who have given more to the community then your or I ever will. Food for thought.

[ACRucrazy]

Just to throw a slight bit of fuel in the fire there are plenty of "enthusiasts" on this forum who have given more to the community then your or I ever will. Food for thought.

No shit. The attitude from some of the leaders here is totally unwelcoming.

[Troublemaker]

OK. Maybe trying to define via some real-world scenarios may help.

Scenario #1: Tony's Auto World

I am BrickHouse Viper. I am a paying sponsor here and often advertise my Vipers for sale. I happen to see a Viper(s) for sale in the VOA classifieds from Tony's Auto World. I report it to the mods. The mods look up Tony's Auto World and see that it's a commercial auto sales business. Further, title says "Enthusiast". It's a commercial auto sales business. I call the number in the Ad and confirm Brickhouse's suspicions. I remove the ad and alert Tony's Auto World.

I am BrickHouse Viper. I am a paying sponsor here and often advertise my Vipers for sale. I happen to see a Viper for sale in the VOA classifieds from member MyAssHurts. MyAssHurts is a member, doesn't appear to be in the Viper sales business. Ad states she's upgrading to a new Viper. I don't report anything. I'm OK.

Scenario #2: Michele's Parts Hoarding

I am Big Ass Automotive. I sell parts, a lot of them, from parted-out Vipers. I happen to stumble across the classifieds and see one or more ads from Michele, a VOA member. Michele seems to be parting out a Viper and has list one or more ads detailing the parts she's trying to sell. I'm not sure if Michele is really a business or just a member trying to make an extra buck. To be sure, I alert the mods. I, a mod, check out the ad. I don't see anything out of the ordinary. But, to be sure, I call Michele and ask her if she's running a business that sells Viper parts or just parting out a Viper for the fun of it. I let her know that we require businesses that wish to sell parts here to become a sponsor. She understand but states it doesn't apply to her since this is a one-time project. I let Big Ass automotive know my findings. Big Ass automotive is thankful for the followup.

Scenario #3: PrincessSnake's Curb Feelers

A Yellow Viper owner/member PrincessSnake (the fastest kind of Viper) decided to make one-off customs curb feelers for her Viper using wire from Home Despot and JB Weld in his home garage. Excited, she asks if any of her fellow Viper owners would like them too. Seeing as there's interest, she offers a few sets to be made for a nominal fee. ViperDustBin, a paying site sponsor, spots the feelers thread. Curious, Johanna from ViperDustBin looks into the thread. Seeing as Johanna does not sell Viper curb feelers and is not competing on curb feelers Johanna is relieved and actually offers to help sell the curb feelers on her site.

Scenario #4: Flatulent Air Ducts

Commercial business (FlatulentAir) and site sponsor selling an intake duct modification that allegedly adds 10rwhp to Vipers. Willy, a member, lists a classified ad for 10 sets of a newly-designed intake duct modifications he "found" in the VOA classifieds. Although she will take your money and never ship you the product because her shipping girl died (suddenly like right now).... Stephanie from FlatulentAir reports the ad to the moderators. A moderator, AsianDelight, looks into ad and questions the number of intake ducts for sale even though the member states "I'm not a business" and "not in Texas" in the ad. Not satisfied, Asian Delight calls the member. Willy swears that he's not pulling a fast one over on AsianDelight. Willy happened to "find" the ducts and wants to get rid of them. AsianDelight is satisfied with the explanation and moves on.

Later, someone alerts AsianDelight that Willy is really a business that makes knock-off parts overseas and uses various aliases on websites to get around fees for placing ads. Kindly, the person sends AsianDelight proof of this. AsianDelight verifies.

With blind rage and feeling as he was just teased by a group of young, horny Asian girls who stole his wallet during a lap-dance....AsianDelight drives to Willy's business. Nobody knows what happened next but Willy moved locations in Texas and was never found again. Coincidentally, Willy's never heard from again and his ads are gone.

So Michelle has a big ass? It always stems back to Politics.