Should links to non paying Sponsor parts/cars be allowed on the VOA?

[ACRucrazy]

Exactly....easy to do. Copy this thread to the appropriate forum. Delete the first few topical posts, and rename the thread. Delete the off topics from the first thread. Done. Any mod or admin should be able to do this. Only takes a few minutes.

As a moderator on another forum I agree. It is very easy to move/split threads.

[whitebeard]

For the record, I moved the posts that were not relevant to the OP to the poll thread.

[ACRucrazy]

For the record, I moved the posts that were not relevant to the OP to the poll thread.

Thank you, however now the poll makes no sense since its buried pages back in post 84 instead of the first post.

[whitebeard]

Oddly enough it shows up as the top of the first thread in Chrome.

[ACRucrazy]

I see what you are saying as I am using chrome too, I guess my point was the first post in the thread is by Viper Girl, and that is because of the dates of the merged threads, I get that.

Anyways, thanks for cleaning up the original thread.

[whitebeard]

I see what you are saying as I am using chrome too, I guess my point was the first post in the thread is by Viper Girl, and that is because of the dates of the merged threads, I get that.

Anyways, thanks for cleaning up the original thread.

That I am working on, Just figured with the temperament of some, it would be better to put a preliminary description of my actions.
I edited the first post, till I can find the advanced admin permissions.

[VYPR BYT]

I can't believe anyone would think this poll is needed...

Let's think about this people;
Supporting Vendors; Hmm, well the word "support" is in the title so it must mean something - oh yeah, maybe they "support" this site! – duh

Look, I get it that everyone wants everything at their fingertips for free – because they simply deserve it, right?
After all, Google gives us what we want when we want it, right? Well, Yes and No… Google is also add supported and the top payers get top billing which is what you see first when you do a search.

Okay, forget the internet – let’s talk something “everyone” can relate to like the interstate and highways for example…

If You are paying 2K/month for advertising space on a billboard for your company which sells widgets, you do so happily as you’re getting bang-for-your-buck with a captive audience traveling as every day traffic. Then after 8 months the owner of this billboard tells your direct competitor he can use the other side of the billboard for free – why? Because he’s doing just fine paying for the construction of the billboard with the support he’s getting from You every month. I’m pretty sure You wouldn't like that much.

Looking at it in this light it seems rather asinine to even raise this issue here on the voa.
Good grief it's not rocket science people... it's just real life. Put you big-boy pants on and be a part of it.

[FrgMstr]

If You are paying 2K/month for advertising space on a billboard for your company which sells widgets, you do so happily as you’re getting bang-for-your-buck with a captive audience traveling as every day traffic. Then after 8 months the owner of this billboard tells your direct competitor he can use the other side of the billboard for free – why? Because he’s doing just fine paying for the construction of the billboard with the support he’s getting from You every month. I’m pretty sure You wouldn't like that much.

Looking at it in this light it seems rather asinine to even raise this issue here on the voa.
Good grief it's not rocket science people... it's just real life. Put you big-boy pants on and be a part of it.

Your analogy is terribly flawed. Much same as I pointed out in the previous one put forward by the staff here.

To be to your point though, there is a "billboard" on this page that the advertiser has purchased. I do not think he purchased the ability to have any references to non-paying competing companies stricken in community members' posts.

If you would read my post here, it might give you some insight to running a modern internet forum.

[XSnake]

As an owner of many billboards, nobody gets on them for free

[mjorgensen]

When I need a simple cheap non-auto part I Oogle it also and decide who to trust the purchase to. I also know that if I need help they won't do that. Fact is that some of the vendors are actual businesses with employees, inventory and buildings to pay for and cannot always offer parts at 2% mark up while also offering 24/7 forum coverage for members. I actually choose to spend my days and most nights "trolling" the Viper forums so I can help where I can. I get a lot of PM's, Emails, and calls from people day and night that have never and might never buy anything from me, I still help them, but if this was my own company I could see how that would get old fast. I do this on 9 different forums (Mopar, GM, Porsche, Ford also) just to help although we only sponsor a few so I cannot sell or advertise anything on them. I love my job and doing this, but it does hurt a bit to get beat out over a few dollars.
Either way they decide I'll deal with, but it is nice to be valued for what you do not just what you can give away.

Thanks

[AZTVR]

I see and have seen numerous mentions of non-sponsor vendors on the forum. (Sponsor as defined by the web page http://driveviper.com/club/sponsors.php )

They probably come and go, so that could be part of that reason. What I wondered is, does the policy under discussion only cover hyperlinks that one clicks on, or possibly copy and paste into a browser ?
Is the policy meant to stop mention of competing but non sponsoring vendors also? For example, people often point people to a dealership for service or car purchase that is not a sponsor, ( with no link other than the text name. ) yet, there are more than one car dealers here as sponsors. Is that mention subject to editing?

Just asking, to understand what the policy is and where the line is, if it can be drawn. Sometimes talking about the details reveals what people are getting at when they desire not to have any rule about referencing non-sponsors.

[FLATOUT]

Mark I always give a sponsor last look, and the opportunity to price match. Most of the time they will , but even when they don't, if I can tell they are trying I will give them the business. I won't if the dollar figure is substantial but if we're close I personally make the choice to support our vendors.

That being said I like free markets so I like information to be more open. The window regulator that got this whole thing started is interesting in and of it self. Dodge engineered a terrible part that fails left and right. The fact that any member is having to go out and replace these even at the new and improved cost bothers me. They should have been recalled. So I want our people to replace these as cheap as possible, PERIOD. I personally hope no one makes even a 1 cent profit on this particular part. Upgrades and general routine upkeep are different all together.

[98intrigue]

Mark I always give a sponsor last look, and the opportunity to price match. Most of the time they will , but even when they don't, if I can tell they are trying I will give them the business. I won't if the dollar figure is substantial but if we're close I personally make the choice to support our vendors.

That being said I like free markets so I like information to be more open. The window regulator that got this whole thing started is interesting in and of it self. Dodge engineered a terrible part that fails left and right. The fact that any member is having to go out and replace these even at the new and improved cost bothers me. They should have been recalled. So I want our people to replace these as cheap as possible, PERIOD. I personally hope no one makes even a 1 cent profit on this particular part. Upgrades and general routine upkeep are different all together.

That is a great point!

I used the same tactics while shopping for auto/home owner's insurance. I have a few friends in the business. A couple years ago when they first quoted me, their quote was almost 33% higher and I could not justify it. I recently bought a house and had them quote me again, but this time they were only around 10% higher. I chose my friend this time because I know he is extremely knowledgeable/trustworthy.

I'd much rather give my business to someone I know and can trust...aka a supporting vendor. For anyone that is parts shopping, it's beneficial to check with our supporting vendors before purchasing from company xyz for the very reason above. They may not always be the cheapest, but it's nice to know they may be willing to negotiate on price.

[johniew398]

dang!


wellll....I THINK the passenger window was fixed on my Viper, will look in paperwork that came with car.

Yes, Leslie. It was fixed and the regulator was replaced.

[johniew398]

As far as not listing links to non-supporting vendors?

If I were a sponsoring vendor I would ask, "Why should I be a sponsoring vendor if anyone can link to any vendor?"

[Granger73]

It's tough to draw the line. I saw an ad for a GEN2 hardtop on eBay, and posted the link because I had seen several posts with folks looking for one. The post was removed. (Not VOA). I feel this type of post should be allowed. Others maybe not. Tough to draw the line

[FrgMstr]

As far as not listing links to non-supporting vendors?

If I were a sponsoring vendor I would ask, "Why should I be a sponsoring vendor if anyone can link to any vendor?"

I have responded directly to this previously:

The VOA advertising vendor has the ability to become part of the community and act on posting of other prices and parts if he sees fit. And I would suggest that the advertising vendor has much more open ability to leverage this relationship. That is where the value is. If the advertising vendor is just putting up a banner and not interacting with the community as a marketing tool, then the vendor is losing out in that relationship. Being able to announce new products and take part of mod inquiries is a tool that needs to be utilized by the advertiser. Do you allow a non-advertising vendor to come in and do the same? No. But VOA seemingly does as there are part time/hobbyist sellers here that use the VOA forums as a selling tool. Which is worse in that situation? Someone posting an ebay link to a part number, or a VOA member selling new parts out of their garage? I would suggest latter there is much more of a threat to your paying advertisers.

This is business in the internet age. Plopping a banner up and then never becoming involved is not worth what the vendor is paying if they do not use the forums as a selling and educational tool about their products. I made huge sums of money in the late 90s this way and I knew then that it was a business model that would not survive when it comes to very specialized product categories. That business model for communities died in 2001.

This is what sponsoring vendors are paying for in an internet community. They have not purchased the right to strike links and control what the members of the community want to say.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

.............. The window regulator that got this whole thing started is interesting in and of itself........... I personally hope no one makes even a 1 cent profit on this particular part.

Really? Who would carry them ?


I don't carry the OLD fragile regulator....but I suspect some internetters do !

[ACRucrazy]

I have responded directly to this previously:

The VOA advertising vendor has the ability to become part of the community and act on posting of other prices and parts if he sees fit. And I would suggest that the advertising vendor has much more open ability to leverage this relationship. That is where the value is. If the advertising vendor is just putting up a banner and not interacting with the community as a marketing tool, then the vendor is losing out in that relationship. Being able to announce new products and take part of mod inquiries is a tool that needs to be utilized by the advertiser. Do you allow a non-advertising vendor to come in and do the same? No. But VOA seemingly does as there are part time/hobbyist sellers here that use the VOA forums as a selling tool. Which is worse in that situation? Someone posting an ebay link to a part number, or a VOA member selling new parts out of their garage? I would suggest latter there is much more of a threat to your paying advertisers.

This is business in the internet age. Plopping a banner up and then never becoming involved is not worth what the vendor is paying if they do not use the forums as a selling and educational tool about their products. I made huge sums of money in the late 90s this way and I knew then that it was a business model that would not survive when it comes to very specialized product categories. That business model for communities died in 2001.

This is what sponsoring vendors are paying for in an internet community. They have not purchased the right to strike links and control what the members of the community want to say.

All of your posts make so much sense it's almost comical.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I have responded directly to this previously:

The VOA advertising vendor has the ability to become part of the community and act on posting of other prices and parts if he sees fit. .............. Do you allow a non-advertising vendor to come in and do the same? No. But VOA seemingly does as there are part time/hobbyist sellers here that use the VOA forums as a selling tool. Which is worse in that situation? Someone posting an ebay link to a part number, or a VOA member selling new parts out of their garage? I would suggest latter there is much more of a threat to your paying advertisers.......

AGREED 110%


The old forum had the same issues with 'closet vendors.' Tony also helped some of them THERE, and knows it well. They might even have a vendor-rep on Alley and/or Flea-Bay, but exercise their 'rights' to free classifieds over at VCA (and VOA) whilst the VC paying sponsors have to PAY for the privilege, and pay for classifieds at VC, even if a paid member. Debating that flaw was futile.

[99RT10]

AGREED 110%


The old forum had the same issues with 'closet vendors.' Tony also helped some of them THERE, and knows it well. They might even have a vendor-rep on Alley and/or Flea-Bay, but exercise their 'rights' to free classifieds over at VCA (and VOA) whilst the VC paying sponsors have to PAY for the privilege, and pay for classifieds at VC, even if a paid member. Debating that flaw was futile.

Life ain't perfect. Neither are you Jon. If this policy is defined, make damn sure to define how much PAYING MEMBERS are allowed to put in the classifieds. And I have no problem talking to anybody, even on Mondays.

[ViperTony]

The old forum had the same issues with 'closet vendors.' Tony also helped some of them THERE, and knows it well.

Yes, I helped make certain they paid the sponsor fee. I don't know if that was implemented before or during your sabbatical over there but they had to pay a sponsor fee to post parts in the classifieds. You were the main reason why that happened as you did a great job policing the forums looking for those closet vendors and flooding my mailbox with posts / Ads pointing them out. Maybe you can help the mods do the same here?

[kblake905]

Wow!! Censorship should not be condoned here but I think this case has been blown way out of proportion. The moderator deleted the link in the best interest of the membership; ie the way I understand it the part number did not match the part needed or was non-existent. She took the time to research it and felt it was in the best interest to delete the link and save us the time of chasing down a non-existent part. I for one appreciate the time volunteered by the moderators, thank you! Thanks to the members who gave thoughtful comments with possible resolutions, rather than complaining that the whole VOA was headed down the same road as the previous club.....
Looking forward to Homecoming and hope to see everyone and personally thanking all those responsible for all their efforts in bringing the club along in such a short time.

[ACRucrazy]

Wow!! Censorship should not be condoned here but I think this case has been blown way out of proportion. The moderator deleted the link in the best interest of the membership; ie the way I understand it the part number did not match the part needed or was non-existent. She took the time to research it and felt it was in the best interest to delete the link and save us the time of chasing down a non-existent part.

Last edited by Viper Girl; at 04:27 AM. Reason: edited to remove non-sponsor link

That was the reason given.

Nothing is beginning, we have a forum policy about non-sponsoring vendors links and sales... As many forums do... period...

[FLATOUT]

DODGE! The manufacturer that put out the defective unit to begin with. It should be warrantied plain and simple.

Really? Who would carry them ?


I don't carry the OLD fragile regulator....but I suspect some internetters do !