Smooth Tube Install Issue Issue

**FrgMstr** · 05-03-2014

This is on a 2008 Vert. I installed the IPSCO underdrive pulley and smooth tubes from RSI. All pretty simple.

It started back up fine. Was showing a CEL and the Throttle warning light. Drove it around the block and all seemed well from how it was running, but it was giving me a P0098 code, which is Intake Air Temperature sensor 2 circuit high. I checked the plugs on the airbox, disconnected, cleaned with air, reconnected, all looked fine.

Figured I would give it a drive across town to see if the CEL went away. I assume the car went into limp mode, as it started running very rough and limited RPMs. Got it back home. It is showing me a bunch of codes now. I looked up all the codes here: http://www.car-ii-codes.com/

P0098 (Intake Air Temperature Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage)
P0100 (Mass Air Flow or Volume Air Flow Sensor Circuit)
P0113 (P0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor Voltage Too High)
P1109 (IAT – B Sensor Intermittent)
P2104 (Throttle Actuator Control System – Forced Idle)
P2110 (Throttle Actuator Control System – Forced Limited RPM)

I have checked all connections etc. Everything looks fine. I cleaned out the all tubes with a microfiber cloth dampened with glass cleaner. I tried not to make contact with the sensors in the tubes. I am wondering if I damaged one? Any inside would be great. Thanks.

**FrgMstr** · 05-03-2014

Got a call from Will over at RSI with some suggestions on diagnostics. Great service.

**FLATOUT** · 05-03-2014

Man wish I could help. Hopefully Will took care of you.

**FrgMstr** · 05-04-2014

OK, did a little work this morning. Pulled the MAF sensors, checked the pins in those and the plugs closely, cleaned those up, but were not dirty at all. Compared driver's side and passenger side. The passenger side pins seemed a little flat (and I think the passenger side is the issue) so I put a bit of a bend on these to see if those would make a better connection. Reinstalled both to original location, same issue with CEL and codes.

Swapped P and D side. No CEL, all good. Took it out for a 3 mile or so drive, opened it up, ran perfect. Pulled over to a lot to make a U turn, sitting idling, goes into limp mode again throwing CEL and throttle warning light. This was about the time the engine got up to normal running temperature. Limped home.

All these still present when checking on the dash.

P0098 (Intake Air Temperature Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage)
P0100 (Mass Air Flow or Volume Air Flow Sensor Circuit)
P0113 (P0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor Voltage Too High)
P1109 (IAT – B Sensor Intermittent)
P2104 (Throttle Actuator Control System – Forced Idle)
P2110 (Throttle Actuator Control System – Forced Limited RPM)

Checked the codes with my phone/Torque app this time and it shows the same codes, plus additional codes.

P010a (Mass or Volume Air Flow "B" Circuit)
P2118 (Throttle Actuator Control Motor Current Range/Performance)

**Redx** · 05-04-2014

Did you try and put your stock AirTubes back on and see if it went away?

**FrgMstr** · 05-04-2014

Just did that at Andy's suggestion as he had seen the same issue on his Gen IV ACR.

Put the stockers back on. Started up and ran without issue for 8 miles or so. Switched the sensors back around as well, just to see, and ran fine with sensors in original positions as well.

I would not have guessed that the smooth tubes would have had anything to do with this issue. I know the sensors are all about electricity and those were showing odd voltages. Think this would have anything to do with the absence of carbon black in the silicone tubes?

Two startups later, all codes cleared from the ECU.

**FrgMstr** · 05-04-2014

Will at RSI suggested clearing the ECU, so.....again.

Disconnected battery, crossed positive over to ground for 30 seconds. Left off while I did my install.

Put the smooth tubes on, hooked up sensors, etc., etc.

Crossed over red to black for another 30 seconds, connected the battery, fired it up. Went into limp mode immediately. Checked codes with Torque app, had a bunch of new ones. Disconnected battery, cleared ECU again, tried again, same thing. Limp mode and CEL with codes.

Took it all off, put stock back on, cleared ECU. Started up fine, good idle, CEL. Cycled on / start twice, no CEL, ran like a scalded cat.

I dunno. My Viper is fully against smooth tubes.

On the upside, if you want me to come over and install these for you, I can do it in about 10 minutes. You buy the beer!

**AbsolutHank** · 05-04-2014

I guess you don't have the Mopar controller?

Don't think I've ever read about these giving CELs on a stock car either though...

**FLATOUT** · 05-04-2014

He has the Mopar ECU as did mine. Some cars just don't like them for some reason or another.

**AbsolutHank** · 05-04-2014

Originally Posted by FLATOUT

He has the Mopar ECU as did mine. Some cars just don't like them for some reason or another.

Oh wow...thats crazy

**FLATOUT** · 05-04-2014

Originally Posted by AbsolutHank

Oh wow...thats crazy

Most gen IV's in the area never had a problem with them, mine would go into limp mode at the top of 4th right after getting off the throttle at MSR. Did it three times. Put the stockers back on and never had an issues.

**IndyRon** · 05-04-2014

Never had an issue with my smooth tubes with factory PCM or the Mopar PCM. That's weird. Some cars may be more sensitive than others to the airflow through the MAF's. I may try to pull the air deflector off my hood to see if I can get away with it as my car seems to be less sensitive to the crap that triggers CEL's on other folks cars.

FrgMstr, just to confirm, you didn't have the bottom lip of the smooth tube folded over on itself on the underside of one or both of the TB's, correct? I'm assuming you probably checked this more than once, but is the only thing I can come up with at this point. It really doesn't make any sense why these things wouldn't work.

**FrgMstr** · 05-04-2014

Originally Posted by IndyRon

Never had an issue with my smooth tubes with factory PCM or the Mopar PCM. That's weird. Some cars may be more sensitive than others to the airflow through the MAF's. I may try to pull the air deflector off my hood to see if I can get away with it as my car seems to be less sensitive to the crap that triggers CEL's on other folks cars.

FrgMstr, just to confirm, you didn't have the bottom lip of the smooth tube folded over on itself on the underside of one or both of the TB's, correct? I'm assuming you probably checked this more than once, but is the only thing I can come up with at this point. It really doesn't make any sense why these things wouldn't work.

Interesting you mention the air deflector as I was going to pull it for racing in a couple of weeks. I need to give that a try beforehand for sure. Thanks for the reminder!

I installed those three times total and had my hand inside to feel to make sure that did not happen. These were installed properly. I am not sure I could have even screwed it up three times...

I never even gave the actual tubes a thought of being the issue until Andy asked me if the issue went away when the stockers were back in. It goes to limp mode sitting at idle in the garage. Crazy. I really thought I had damaged and sensor during the changeout.

And to confirm Mopar ECU. Belanger headers, no cats, Corsa 2.5" catbacks.

**v10CodeMonkey** · 05-05-2014

Just for comparison's sake, I have RSI's smooth tubes on an 08. First put them on with it completely stock and now with my ACRX headers and it hasn't thrown any codes either way. Very odd why some would be more susceptible than others to changes. I'm assuming you have stock airbox and filter as well?

**FrgMstr** · 05-05-2014

Yes. Stock airbox with stock filter element.

**Back In Black** · 05-05-2014

Originally Posted by v10CodeMonkey

Just for comparison's sake, I have RSI's smooth tubes on an 08. First put them on with it completely stock and now with my ACRX headers and it hasn't thrown any codes either way. Very odd why some would be more susceptible than others to changes. I'm assuming you have stock airbox and filter as well?

Stock ECU or Mopar?

**TooBlue** · 05-06-2014

Mine did the same thing with smooth tubes. I had installed KN filters and removed the rain deflector at the same time as the smooth tubes.
I reinstalled the the rain deflector in the hood scoop, put the OEM filters back on and the problem went away...

I did have to drive the car for a while and it seemed to "learn" the difference after a while.

Good Luck

**slowhatch** · 05-06-2014

Isn't the IAT a real PITA to pull out from the factory airbox? Are the guys with the issues sure they haven't damaged the IAT sensor in some way during the install? Could be worth it to buy a new one (they are pretty cheap), and test it out.

**FrgMstr** · 05-06-2014

Originally Posted by slowhatch

Isn't the IAT a real PITA to pull out from the factory airbox? Are the guys with the issues sure they haven't damaged the IAT sensor in some way during the install? Could be worth it to buy a new one (they are pretty cheap), and test it out.

Well, this was my initial thought. I was VERY careful with the sensors. And no, those sensors are not hard at all to remove and install.

I did switch sensors around to the other side, same results with a different sensor for same side. I had the smooth tubes on two times with he same bad results, with the bad results going away immediately with stock re-installed.

Andy pointed out issues on the track running hard, and I guess I can get my head around that, but my issues happen at idle.

**slowhatch** · 05-06-2014

Originally Posted by FrgMstr

Well, this was my initial thought. I was VERY careful with the sensors. And no, those sensors are not hard at all to remove and install.

I did switch sensors around to the other side, same results with a different sensor for same side. I had the smooth tubes on two times with he same bad results, with the bad results going away immediately with stock re-installed.

Andy pointed out issues on the track running hard, and I guess I can get my head around that, but my issues happen at idle.

I say this because I've witnessed someone break the IAT housing while pulling it out of the stock airbox (it just wouldn't budge), and I decided to just replace mine altogether instead of risking it breaking and be stuck. Airbox's are different on gen 4s though, so maybe its a non-issue.