Just released off-road PCM for Gen V

[ViperTony]

Just fyi, nothing about this is legal in California... .

Same in CT. I considered going down this route but after performing much research and the fact that CT cracks down on this I decided it wasn't worth it.

[mjorgensen]

Finally!
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[Dman]

Finally!
20150205_104348_resized.jpg

Eureka!!

Awesome. Finally we can start a new thread focused not on them coming, but all the cool stuff you guys are finding with them. Woohoo!

[Bruce H.]

Just like Christmas with PCMs under the tree for all the good boys and girls!

[FLATOUT]

Well I am sticking with the HPTuners software for now, Still have the ability to load in a race gas tune, and 93 tune, or back to stock if need be. I like being able to make adjustments and not be stuck with one set tune.

I am interested to see one of the Woodhouse cars with one compared to all the great HP Tuners numbers they have seen.

[mblgjr]

Its like seeing Bigfoot after all these years

[FLATOUT]

Its like seeing Bigfoot after all these years

LOL, I'm really looking forward to how the cars perform with them actually.

[mblgjr]

Absolutely.

But really; they should be really close to what we've already seen from HPT results.

[Steve M]

Absolutely.

But really; they should be really close to what we've already seen from HPT results.

It will all depend on how aggressive they set it up - there has to be some wiggle room to account for variances from car to car, and that wiggle room will have been added to the safe side (less timing and more fuel, most likely).

The Gen 4 Mopar PCM could account for changes from stock all the way to ported heads - the stock cars gained very little, but the ones that added mods that will typically lean a car out (headers, ported intakes, etc.) faired quite well, but you could only take that so far. Recall Toddy from BBG trying to run a set of his long tube headers on the engine dyno with a Mopar PCM - it leaned the engine out too much, and was thus unsafe. I'm curious to see just how flexible the Gen 5 variant is in off-the-shelf form, granted they can apparently make adjustments post-sale unlike the Gen 4 offering.

[FLATOUT]

Something that might be pretty cool would be if you could piggy back HPTuners software on top of the Mopar ECU, thus giving you the added throttle response and lack of torque management crap from the Mopar ECU but still give you the opportunity to tune for more agressive fuels and specific A/F adjustments to your car with the HPTuners stuff on top.

Andy

[bluesrt]

so I have been sleeping through this whole process, is there a mopar computer that's a plug n play for a stock t/a viper? plus if so whats the advantage per say? thx

[mjorgensen]

so I have been sleeping through this whole process, is there a mopar computer that's a plug n play for a stock t/a viper? plus if so whats the advantage per say? thx

It is not a Mopar part anymore, it is an Arrow Racing PCM and yes it is plug (at dealer for initial install) and PLAY! 25+ hp gain although we have seen more than that at the tire with some cars. Allows the most out of headers and exhaust total about 60rwhp.

[Dman]

Mark, it's been like 3 hours since you opened that box. No dyno sheets posted yet? What's up with that. Slacker.

lol

Not that anyone is anxious or anything. It's great to see these exciting things for our cars, and our awesome vendors getting more things to offer and work their performance recipes up with. Good times.

[TrackAire]

The Montana thing is also getting cracked down on too.

As crazy strict smog is in California, most counties do not have smog checks in remote areas. I have friends that have bought vacation "cabins" just to register their modified cars and diesel trucks there to avoid smog testing.

Funny thing, less than 1 hour north of San Francisco is a no smog check county. Once the car is registered there it gets no smog checks unless it is sold and has to be re-registered.

[ViperSmith]

As crazy strict smog is in California, most counties do not have smog checks in remote areas. I have friends that have bought vacation "cabins" just to register their modified cars and diesel trucks there to avoid smog testing.

Funny thing, less than 1 hour north of San Francisco is a no smog check county. Once the car is registered there it gets no smog checks unless it is sold and has to be re-registered.

if theres a will theres a way

[Steve M]

Something that might be pretty cool would be if you could piggy back HPTuners software on top of the Mopar ECU, thus giving you the added throttle response and lack of torque management crap from the Mopar ECU but still give you the opportunity to tune for more agressive fuels and specific A/F adjustments to your car with the HPTuners stuff on top.

Andy

Did they actually add throttle response? Also, torque management can be disabled with HPT...at least for the Gen 4 cars.

[Jack B]

The Arrow PCM is set up for 93 octane.

It will all depend on how aggressive they set it up - there has to be some wiggle room to account for variances from car to car, and that wiggle room will have been added to the safe side (less timing and more fuel, most likely).

The Gen 4 Mopar PCM could account for changes from stock all the way to ported heads - the stock cars gained very little, but the ones that added mods that will typically lean a car out (headers, ported intakes, etc.) faired quite well, but you could only take that so far. Recall Toddy from BBG trying to run a set of his long tube headers on the engine dyno with a Mopar PCM - it leaned the engine out too much, and was thus unsafe. I'm curious to see just how flexible the Gen 5 variant is in off-the-shelf form, granted they can apparently make adjustments post-sale unlike the Gen 4 offering.

[Steve M]

I'd love to "look under the hood" of one...does anyone know if they still use the same rolling encryption scheme as before?

I guess more to the point, if they have indeed added throttle response, then they've disabled some or all of the checks that are keeping us from doing the same with HPTuners. If we know what those parameters are, Keith can look for them and potentially add it to the list of adjusments for current HPT users.

[FLATOUT]

Did they actually add throttle response? Also, torque management can be disabled with HPT...at least for the Gen 4 cars.

I know it can be disabled with HPTuners software but we were constantly having issues with the cars going into limp mode, because of tables that we could not alter (from a sensitivity standpoint). I am thinking the Arrow ECU will make this situation less sensitive.

[Steve M]

I know it can be disabled with HPTuners software but we were constantly having issues with the cars going into limp mode, because of tables that we could not alter (from a sensitivity standpoint). I am thinking the Arrow ECU will make this situation less sensitive.

If we can figure out what those parameters are, there is a chance Keith can find them in the code and add it to the list of things we can adjust. This is all assuming the Arrow PCM does indeed alter throttle response. I'd also be curious to know what else has been relaxed.

[1.8t]

Anyone know if these Arrow PCM's can be read and flashed by HPT the same as the stock ECU?

[FLATOUT]

Anyone know if these Arrow PCM's can be read and flashed by HPT the same as the stock ECU?

I was told that yes they can be.

- - - Updated - - -

If we can figure out what those parameters are, there is a chance Keith can find them in the code and add it to the list of things we can adjust. This is all assuming the Arrow PCM does indeed alter throttle response. I'd also be curious to know what else has been relaxed.

Agree this is the way to go if he will indeed delve a little deeper into the functions we have had problems with.

[Simms]

The Arrow car I drove at NARRA/PittRace (which was provided by Viper Exchange I beleive), had a prototype PCM and full exhaust. Can't say if it was my imagination or not, but it sure felt like the throttle respond was better. And this was just around the paddock.

Sure hope I wasn't imagining things.

[Steve M]

Anyone know if these Arrow PCM's can be read and flashed by HPT the same as the stock ECU?

I'd be careful with this one...although it may be possible, you'll end up overwriting the Arrow tune with the canned Gen 5 OEM tune if everything is the same as the Gen 4 cars. The reason is due to the rolling encryption (at least my understanding of it)...HPTuners can't actually read out the Gen 4/5 PCMs, only write over what is already there. If you do this, you'll lose the benefit of the Arrow PCM. Arrow might be able to flash it back, but I'm sure they'd be unhappy about it if not tell you to go pound sand and buy another.

[Steve M]

The Arrow car I drove at NARRA/PittRace (which was provided by Viper Exchange I beleive), had a prototype PCM and full exhaust. Can't say if it was my imagination or not, but it sure felt like the throttle respond was better.

Sure hope I wasn't imagining things.

People said the same thing about the Mopar PCM in the Gen 4 cars...Mr. Jorgensen indicated that this was merely a byproduct of the leaning out of the AFR, and not the result of changes to any tables affecting the pedal vs. throttle gain or opening rate.

What you noticed could have been very real, but not due to the reason we're thinking (adjustments to throttle response parameters).