Just released off-road PCM for Gen V

[KB Viper]

so to confirm you can get 35hp bump on a stock gen v with just the pcm swap?

[Jack B]

Just an opinion, but, when using nitrous you are always better adjusting a/f with the jets. One tip, do not think of using anything but the tubes for the nitrous/fuel injection - the G5 has a composite intake. The car already pulls timing with the base pcm tune, therefore, you will need minimal tune adjustment. If you remember early on, Tom (BTR) put a 200 shot on his G5 without any tune.

If you do add nitrous, your best investment is a wideband that can log. Innovate is a great product and logworks has become an industry standard. This car acts differently on the dyno and at the strip, if you tune on a dyno, that does not mean the a/f is the same when you race.

Totally agree, I'm really hoping we can get my car to work well with nitrous and HPT.

[FLATOUT]

so to confirm you can get 35hp bump on a stock gen v with just the pcm swap?

I'd like to see that dyno. Possible through the middle but not peak.

[mjorgensen]

so to confirm you can get 35hp bump on a stock gen v with just the pcm swap?

that will be the high end of gains.

I'd like to see that dyno. Possible through the middle but not peak.

I have a sheet but it's not mine to post I'll ask.

[1.8t]

Just an opinion, but, when using nitrous you are always better adjusting a/f with the jets. One tip, do not think of using anything but the tubes for the nitrous/fuel injection - the G5 has a composite intake. The car already pulls timing with the base pcm tune, therefore, you will need minimal tune adjustment. If you remember early on, Tom (BTR) put a 200 shot on his G5 without any tune.

Also don't forget that an equal part of tuning a car for nitrous is reading the plugs. And on that note I mean put a set of plugs in, make a pull on the sauce immediately, and then pull/read them. If you really want to do it right, you need to expose the entire length of porcelain.

[Track Pack]

Thanks for the update Mark. I assume with 85% calc, do our Gen 5's pull around 545 stock? So with 25-35, that puts us at as high as 580 rwhp, and 680-685-ish at the crank?

[1.8t]

^ I think 530 to 540 is normal for a Dynojet. Mine made 535 on a 248C with 500 miles on it. Might make a few hp more now.

[Zybane]

Nope sold it, I didn't like that the IAT's would get hotter as the pull was made on the dyno. The Stock box will start hotter but the IAT's dive cooler towards redline since it's sealed.

Doesn't K&N make a drop in filter for the Viper? Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds; a better breathing filter and keeping the sealed ram air effect?

Fixed cam, heads redone, fuel upgrade, headers and PCM will be 730+ at the flywheel.

Just for a 80hp flywheel bump the fueling system already needs to be messed with? What components?

[Jack B]

Plug reading is difficult:
1. You have to cut power after a long wot run, how do you do that at the track.

2. Our plugs have a long threaded area and the area to inspect is buried inside. Most people believe you look at the exposed part of the insulator, that is not true for wot tuning.

Summary, plug inspection is simple when looking for detonation, but, tough when tuning. I have one of the best plug inspection devices made and it cannot see down to the base of the insularor. An a/f logger is simple, quick and accurate

Also don't forget that an equal part of tuning a car for nitrous is reading the plugs. And on that note I mean put a set of plugs in, make a pull on the sauce immediately, and then pull/read them. If you really want to do it right, you need to expose the entire length of porcelain.

[RedTanRT/10]

Hey Mark J,

In SF for NADA, great to read all about these developments in the past few days!!! Thanks for all the hard work and support!!

Question,

Dan Cragin ported my G4 heads, I did my first smog 2 months ago and along with the belanger's and Lou's cat back I passed here in Cali.

Dan told me 6-8 months ago he could do a G4 cam swap for me, but, no way to pass smog.

Will your G5 cam pass smog using the stock ecu plus headers and a cat back??

Thanks!! and Best wishes, Mike

[1.8t]

Plug reading is difficult:
1. You have to cut power after a long wot run, how do you do that at the track.

2. Our plugs have a long threaded area and the area to inspect is buried inside. Most people believe you look at the exposed part of the insulator, that is not true for wot tuning.

1. Cut power after the run, coast to the return road, pull the plugs there. Easy to do at my track .

2. Many people I know cut the threaded portion off the plug when they get home. It is a PITA and makes "tuning" a long drawn out process, but you get to see how each cylinder is functioning and is worth the PITA factor IMO.

[BlknBlu]

[QUOTE=Zybane;105741]Doesn't K&N make a drop in filter for the Viper? Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds; a better breathing filter and keeping the sealed ram air effect?



Stock filters breathe better than aftermarket ones. a lot of time was developed with the GEN IV cars air and oil filters to get the best performance. Even if chicks dig K & N filters the stock ones are better.

Bruce

[Zybane]

[QUOTE=BlknBlu;105791]

Doesn't K&N make a drop in filter for the Viper? Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds; a better breathing filter and keeping the sealed ram air effect?



Stock filters breathe better than aftermarket ones. a lot of time was developed with the GEN IV cars air and oil filters to get the best performance. Even if chicks dig K & N filters the stock ones are better.

Bruce

While I'll disagree that a paper filter is less restrictive than a K&N, the K&N typically only breaths better because it's less particle capture efficient and let's more dirt in. I'd rather have cleaner air entering my engine than dirtier air an extra HP or two:

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html


With the ram-air effect, the paper filter could be a zero bottleneck and both filters would produce the same power levels. But it would not be possible for the paper element to flow better than the K&N. Plus with the paper you don't have to worry about the silly cleaning requirements. Just toss a new paper filter in and go. (I'm talking about a properly oiled K&N that is identical in size and shape to the OEM filter, not a cone filter.)

[Vprbite]

If the off road PCM won't pass emissions, can't you just have RSI tune your car for you?

Ok that was too easy. I don't want to derail this thread.

As far as K&N goes, I have heard that dick Winkles says he doesn't like them. Especially when they get neglected. Get behind on cleaning and oiling that filter and you are asking for trouble. That is what I have been told he thinks about them.

[Jack B]

Have you pulled the plugs on your car yet, typically on the viper the 8 and 10 plug run the leanest, those are not that easy to remove. The second issue is due to the deep body you can not see the bottom of the insulator and would have to grind away the thread body to see the insulator, above you said the same thing.

1. Cut power after the run, coast to the return road, pull the plugs there. Easy to do at my track .

2. Many people I know cut the threaded portion off the plug when they get home. It is a PITA and makes "tuning" a long drawn out process, but you get to see how each cylinder is functioning and is worth the PITA factor IMO.

[ViperSmith]

If the off road PCM won't pass emissions, can't you just have RSI tune your car for you?

Ok that was too easy. I don't want to derail this thread.

As far as K&N goes, I have heard that dick Winkles says he doesn't like them. Especially when they get neglected. Get behind on cleaning and oiling that filter and you are asking for trouble. That is what I have been told he thinks about them.

If winkles thought it was a better design I think it would have been in the car.

At least that's how I see it.

[Jack B]

We have to remember, both the tune and the new pcm are going to correct some flaws in the pcm. You are gaining hp by eliminating the cat protect scheme and the IAT timing reduction. After you eliminate those two gremlins, both the tune and new pcm modify the a/f and the timing. They both do the same thing through different routes and there are pros and cons on both sides.

I'd like to see that dyno. Possible through the middle but not peak.

[FLATOUT]

We have to remember, both the tune and the new pcm are going to correct some flaws in the pcm. You are gaining hp by eliminating the cat protect scheme and the IAT timing reduction. After you eliminate those two gremlins, both the tune and new pcm modify the a/f and the timing. They both do the same thing through different routes and there are pros and cons on both sides.

Of course which is why I look forward to seeing a peak 35rwhp gain. Not going to happen but if it does I will consider a change.

[Jack B]

The best viper shop in the country did the PCM tune, that is what makes it interesting. What I like about it is the fact that they will retune the pcm if you buy the heads and cam package. It gives us the chance to buy the best from the best.

Of course which is why I look forward to seeing a peak 35rwhp gain. Not going to happen but if it does I will consider a change.

[ViperSmith]

if there was no impact to the warranty it would be a no brainer

[Simms]

Without buying any packages, what do you get with the PCM? I assume right out of the box it's great for header/high flow cats/exhaust/ intake cars?

[Vprbite]

If winkles thought it was a better design I think it would have been in the car.

At least that's how I see it.

That's exactly what I think. He has every reason to want the absolute best from this motor and would put a damn waffle in the airbox if it was the correct call.

[FastMatt]

I cant see how one of these cars with heads, cam, headers, tune cant make close to 700rwhp less the cam is not much of a upgrade.

[Junkie]

Just an opinion, but, when using nitrous you are always better adjusting a/f with the jets. One tip, do not think of using anything but the tubes for the nitrous/fuel injection - the G5 has a composite intake. The car already pulls timing with the base pcm tune, therefore, you will need minimal tune adjustment. If you remember early on, Tom (BTR) put a 200 shot on his G5 without any tune.

If you do add nitrous, your best investment is a wideband that can log. Innovate is a great product and logworks has become an industry standard. This car acts differently on the dyno and at the strip, if you tune on a dyno, that does not mean the a/f is the same when you race.

Already have the wideband plumbed and I've got a master jet kit Sounds like we are on the same page.

[Jack B]

you may need a BAP, you definitely want to start with 100 shot and work up.

Already have the wideband plumbed and I've got a master jet kit Sounds like we are on the same page.