New VOA Website coming to a drive in near you

[viperguy69]

For those that care, the new website is getting ready to go active.

Once the new website launches these forums will become historical records and view only under "driveviperforums.com"

We will have a link on the new website to this historical repository of information.

The new website will continue to use "driveviper.com" as our portal.


Out with the old...
OLD Page.jpg

In with the New...
NEW Page.jpg

[mkviper96]

I am excited because the new website will reduce hours needed to run the club. It will also reduce time needed to monitor and maintain the website. In a volunteer organization, anywhere you can reduce operations from a time perspective it improves the club.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I am excited because the new website will reduce hours needed to run the club. It will also reduce time needed to monitor and maintain the website. In a volunteer organization, anywhere you can reduce operations from a time perspective it improves the club.

Reducing the intellectual DNA to 3-4 BOSSES......... somehow improves the club?

Will the site moderators (Scott, Kala, Phil, Don, ___?) be given their papers? Divide and Conquer yet again.

[13COBRA]

What exactly are the benefits of the new site over the old?

There are a ton of active threads that will become read only...that doesn't sound very conducive. Why not just archive the ones that have had no activity in the last 180 days or something?

Will the new website ONLY allow Mamba or Members to post? Or will Enthusiasts still be able to utilize the site with the ability to post?

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

List of Site Moderators

The following members are MODERATORS on this site:

Plumcrazy
http://driveviper.com/forums/members/11-plumcrazy

Viper Girl
http://driveviper.com/forums/members/14-Viper-Girl

Whitebeard
http://driveviper.com/forums/members/8-whitebeard

City
http://driveviper.com/forums/members/3-City

In addition to the "Report Post" icon (!) at the bottom left of each post, please don't hesitate to contact any of us with moderation issues.

Remember, this is a car enthusiast forum and we're all here to enjoy ourselves and the camaraderie of others


Thank You for DECADES of generous service.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

For those that care, the new website is getting ready to go active.

My bet is a lot LESS active. You newbee bosses forget "THE MORGUE"

Learn from your mistakes yet again! Remember all the VCA parallels that were censored several months back ? 1000 truly active posts went POOF.

[13COBRA]

I don't want to beat a dead horse...but will Enthusiasts still be able to contribute to the forum on the new site? Or will it be read-only for us? Or no access at all?

[Viper Girl]

My understanding is the new site will be read only for non-club members.

[13COBRA]

My understanding is the new site will be read only for non-club members.

...I really hope that isn't the case.

If it is, I'd like to know who decided that.

[Viper Girl]

It was a majority BOD decision.

[13COBRA]

It was a majority BOD decision.

A majority of the Board of Directors voted to make it read-only for Enthusiasts?

I wonder if they thought about how dead this place will be when that takes affect. Am I the only one that feels like this is VCA 2.0?

[Sniper]

Well, everyone have a nice day!

[Sniper]

That’s exactly why I didn’t renew.

[Steve M]

[Viper Girl]

I'm not in disagreement about any of the above. It's an unfortunate decision in my book, not gonna lie... I see ways they could have done a hybrid forum. A Members only area, and letting the enthusiasts post as well. To me that would have been a perfect scenario.

I also get that the club had financial difficulty leading up to the recent decisions to make changes. Before you say NO! COVID did have a huge financial effect on this club.

Take NVE that year, in some cases entire regions backed out of going to the event AFTER all the deposits were paid to the venues. It was too late to cancel the NVE event, the vendors and venues could have sued the Club. So you'd have the $ loss, plus attorneys fees. The club was put in a rock and a hard place kind of situation. NVE's are not cheap, and was always one of my favorite things about the Club.

The Club took out the now infamous loan to recover. If more people had joined the Club during COVID that would have made a ton of difference in what the Club faces today. Currently the club will have a surplus of $ at the end of the year because of budget cutting. Cutting a programmer to keep this site running is just one of the budget cuts that have been made.

Also know it is this BOD's decision to make, it's their right to run the club as they see fit. They had a lot to recover from, and somehow they felt shutting down the forums, was the right call.

Maybe the next BOD will say "Hey! Lets open the forums to everyone!" That could happen.

For now, let's all be part of the change to make this Club be what we want from it.
Thats where my head is at...

Come for the car, stay for the people... at least thats what we used to say...

[Sniper]

Well, if funds were such an issue, they should’ve listened to the members and cut the magazine out and been way better off financially. This is the main reason I didn’t rejoin. We should’ve cut all the big expenses which the magazine was the biggest expense and tried to get back to ground zero.

[Viper Girl]

You have a point Sniper... NVE was also a big part... But nows now and this is a good club, that can be a better club. We can learn from history, and do better in the future.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater seems a bit extreme. I'd rather talk about what we want from this club in the near future, rather than focus on today. That's how we solve the issue...

Its hard having an all volunteer club. I'm guessing we're all damn busy with our businesses, but all Viper owners being able to connect. Especially as we get further and further from factory support we have will be key. We can have our moment of anger, then how about lets do something about it for the future of the club.

[J TNT]

For the record some regions have increased their membership by 100 percent through out COVID by listening to members and adding Value .
And Yes the BOD Has the Right to Manage or mismanage as they see fit, at The End of the Day it's their membership to loose or increase .

Respectfully
Jay

[Sniper]

Not mad but if the board isn’t listening to the members, hence why I didn’t renew.

[viperguy69]

If we just cut the magazine, like some suggested, we would have been by far worst off. Over 65% of the clubs members want the Magazine because they are subscribers. So, that knee jerk reaction could have cost us at least 35% of our membership! To get a hardcopy magazine, you pay for a hard copy magazine - it was established as a subscription service in 2022.

Most of the regional presidents gave the national team 2022 to get their ducks in a row and get our club's finances in order. What did we do in 2022? We held over 30 Board of Director meeting to cuss and discuss the issues and to uncover areas the club was bleeding money from. The end result of 2022 is that we came to terms with what the club would look like in 2023 based on the programmatic cuts we had to make in 2022.

In 2022 we killed: VOA store (huge money suck) and annual membership cards (a significant expense). We reduced the Magazine cost by over 25% (actually 33% reduction in 2022), reduced club service fees by more than 50% paid to vendors, and reduced web service fees by over 40%. That came at a cost to membership dues to give to the regions ($55 fixed rate for 2022), but they voted on the reduction to help the club back in 2021, thank you.

In 2023 we went back to 50/50 split ($75/member) back to the regions; more than they ever got before by about $8/member. We held the line on Mamba membership is a fee for service to get the hard-copy magazine. We approved the $100K cash reserve we collected over the last 16-months for contingency funds and will be putting this money into a short term CD at 4% interest rate that will be used to pay an extra $4k on the loan. We still have enough cash funds (above the $100K going into that CD) in our other accounts to pay all our bills from today through 31 December 2023 which includes regional splits and all four magazines shipped to Mamba members. We will vote on funds in excess of the $100K reserve to pay forward on the SBA loan in October 2023, currently looking at about $10K surplus based on current efforts and every additional member that joins and every vendor added is a surplus going to pay the SBA loan early and then rolling the $100k forward in 2024 for another year with $4K in interest.

So, the BoD has their hands firmly on the controls and we did not make all the irrational decisions to run the ship aground. It's amazing to the BoD of the contempt that enthusiast have for the club but demand this forum stay open despite their harsh comments. I was not at the meeting when this topic came up for discussion nor how the decision was voted on or made. The National leadership is not the decision maker on this topic as you have to convince the majority of the VOA BoD. The enthusiast position is not winning hearts and minds with all these attacks over the last year; many of the regional presidents contributing countless, and thankless, hours keeping this club and their regions from imploding in 2022.

So, maybe the concern of the BoD is that membership does not use the forum out of concern of being ridiculed and heckled in the current open forum environment. Maybe the thought is that if the forum comments are left to only members then maybe they will use the forum more openly as a membership benefit since they pay for this website - an idea that has yet to be tested for the VOA.

The BoD never said that this decision was firm, fixed, and not open for discussion or further debate.

[Steve M]

First point: don't forget that many of us "enthusiasts" were once paying members, and we've decided against supporting the VOA's future endeavors for many reasons, including poor leadership, lack of communication, and questionable ethics.

To which you'll reply: "Well, what did you do to help?"

I did what I reasonably could do: I stopped helping finance the VOA's poor decisions.

I've had some offline conversations with those that do volunteer, and one thing became quite clear to me from those conversations: the members that do volunteer and want to make a change often get bulldozed by the powers that be who clearly have their own agenda and want nothing to do with it.

Why in the world would I waste my time trying to fix something that can't possibly be fixed?

Moving on to the elephant in the room - the magazine.

If we just cut the magazine, like some suggested, we would have been by far worst off. Over 65% of the clubs members want the Magazine because they are subscribers. So, that knee jerk reaction could have cost us at least 35% of our membership! To get a hardcopy magazine, you pay for a hard copy magazine - it was established as a subscription service in 2022.

You've clearly drawn some conclusions as to the magazine's desirability by membership numbers alone, but there's one more question you need to answer before you go touting this as the concrete evidence you think it is that the magazine must go on: how many members blindly renewed, just like they do every year, because they knew nothing of the financial turmoil that was really going on behind the scenes? I remember those membership renewal emails, and they glossed over the gory details like just how much debt had been incurred and how there was now a massive loan that needed to be repaid that was kept out of the public eye. I also remember the emails that came from the region I used to be a part of; there was no mention of any of that. Why? Because they knew if they were up front about it, people wouldn't blindly renew like they usually do.

In fact, there used to be a record of all of that in the Membership Section that one day mysteriously disappeared. You sure made it seem like it was an accident, but things like that just don't "accidentally" happen. A conscious decision was clearly made. Yeah, it could have been a mistake, but there are too many signs that suggest it wasn't.

Case in point:

So, maybe the concern of the BoD is that membership does not use the forum out of concern of being ridiculed and heckled in the current open forum environment. Maybe the thought is that if the forum comments are left to only members then maybe they will use the forum more openly as a membership benefit since they pay for this website - an idea that has yet to be tested for the VOA.

Sure sounds to me like there is a strong desire to quash dissenting opinions, the next step being to not allow "enthusiasts" to post at all. I'd argue that this idea has indeed been tested when they deleted the Membership Section, and the VOA Board of Directors liked the result.

So what is it about the magazine? Who financially benefits from it, and what is their relationship with the VOA Board of Directors? This question, or one like it, was asked in that thread that is now no longer accessible to the masses. I don't remember it ever being answered.

This is what I mean when I say questionable ethics. The impression that someone has been lining their own pockets from the magazine (and continues to do so) clearly exists - you've done nothing that suggests this isn't the case. Why is that?

But why address it now when you know my voice will soon be silenced?

On to my last point:

The BoD never said that this decision was firm, fixed, and not open for discussion or further debate.

If you make this decision, it might as well be final. Once you lose folks, they won't come back no matter how many emails you might send in the future begging them to come back when forum participation plummets. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to go back to the VCA.

Prospective members that also can't post unless they pay first is going to be a tough pill to swallow for most.

But you at least have the benefit that the VOA has essentially erased all historical records of any wrongdoing...maybe they'll never find out.

Just remember: there will always be people like me that won't forget.

[Sniper]

And you’ve exactly made my point why I didn’t renew.
Heckling LOL really…

[viperguy69]

And you’ve exactly made my point why I didn’t renew.
Heckling LOL really…

Lol... and my point is affirmed!

[ViperSRT]

My suggestion is to check substantive threads and determine if contributions made by those shown as enthusiasts are significant or not. Assume that if the site is read only the expertise and experience of those enthusiasts will be lost. Thus begins the downward spiral of reduced content, reduced screen time and reduced value for any advertisers (if any are expected). The new forum will slowly lose any significance and disappear. Other social pages (VOA or others) will become the go to source for feedback and technical inquiry. No real loss to the enthusiasts, but without a forum the attractiveness of VOA membership will decrease.

So when does this slow burn begin!

[viperguy69]

My suggestion is to check substantive threads and determine if contributions made by those shown as enthusiasts are significant or not. Assume that if the site is read only the expertise and experience of those enthusiasts will be lost. Thus begins the downward spiral of reduced content, reduced screen time and reduced value for any advertisers (if any are expected). The new forum will slowly lose any significance and disappear. Other social pages (VOA or others) will become the go to source for feedback and technical inquiry. No real loss to the enthusiasts, but without a forum the attractiveness of VOA membership will decrease.

So when does this slow burn begin!

Agreed, I think many of those points were articulated at the meeting from my discussion with a few that attended.

However, one of the other key points that was articulated was a potential vendor coming on and reading all the negativity on the forums. Why would they want to take a chance of the same negativity coming back on their business if the forum is a lawless playfield that is out of control.

I would offer that those enthusiasts that have provided positive comments over the last year and are positive contributors on the forum should be given access - an exception. I bet I could find a couple dozen that fit that bill pretty easily. None of us want a dead forum, but all of us are tired of the negativity which is equally as toxic here. We want more Viper channels 24/7 and less of the other crap.

What kills us is the simple fact that no money = no club and no club = no website.