Remember When

[Policy Limits]

Attachment 53093

And the recent Mecum Kissimmee VooDoo II that sold at $400k+:

Attachment 53094

Did you miss the more recent private sale near Half Million?

[RedTanRT/10]

ACRSNK, Yeah Gerry Wood was in the Viper spotlight for 6-12 months of the entire Viper history and was there at the end! Like Cobra/Nick commented, I'm sure they got a smokin' deal way, way back of invoice to commit to take all that production. I wouldn't be surprised if they paid $10-$15K under invoice so selling at sticker made them some good money.

He clearly was a risk taker as sales had really softened and FCA had to reprice (discount) the cars by $15k and give G5 owners a $15k coupon. The C-8 was on the horizon and if they had come out in '16 or '17, selling a $60k list car, it would have not been good.

[ViperGeorge]

ACRSNK, Yeah Gerry Wood was in the Viper spotlight for 6-12 months of the entire Viper history and was there at the end! Like Cobra/Nick commented, I'm sure they got a smokin' deal way, way back of invoice to commit to take all that production. I wouldn't be surprised if they paid $10-$15K under invoice so selling at sticker made them some good money.

He clearly was a risk taker as sales had really softened and FCA had to reprice (discount) the cars by $15k and give G5 owners a $15k coupon. The C-8 was on the horizon and if they had come out in '16 or '17, selling a $60k list car, it would have not been good.

I believe the $15K coupons were only given to 2013 and 2014 buyers. If memory serves the coupon had something to do with Dodge cancelling most of their racing program (NASCAR for example) which the premium that the 2013 and 2014 buyers paid was funding. Could be wrong.

[RedTanRT/10]

I believe the $15K coupons were only given to 2013 and 2014 buyers. If memory serves the coupon had something to do with Dodge cancelling most of their racing program (NASCAR for example) which the premium that the 2013 and 2014 buyers paid was funding. Could be wrong.

George, they cut the price of any unsold Viper by $15k, then adjusted the price down by $15k on new production. Owners at that time were given a $15k coupon to buy/trade for a G5

Here's an article from AutoWeek back then explaining what happened. I think for many folks reading this article, they will be kind of shocked to read how slow G5 sales were back then


https://www.autoweek.com/news/a19052...ut-spur-sales/

[ACRSNK]

ACRSNK, Yeah Gerry Wood was in the Viper spotlight for 6-12 months of the entire Viper history and was there at the end! Like Cobra/Nick commented, I'm sure they got a smokin' deal way, way back of invoice to commit to take all that production. I wouldn't be surprised if they paid $10-$15K under invoice so selling at sticker made them some good money.

He clearly was a risk taker as sales had really softened and FCA had to reprice (discount) the cars by $15k and give G5 owners a $15k coupon. The C-8 was on the horizon and if they had come out in '16 or '17, selling a $60k list car, it would have not been good.

I still think it was pretty cool that the sold them at no higher than MSRP. When he bought the remaining inventory, he could have easily asked for way more than sticker. I remember those times well and it went from no big deal to none left overnight. People were looking to buy once they found out no more and no more orders being taken. They could have held the cars hostage, but didn't. They may have disappeared, but there was no reason for them to continue on with the forum after they sold all their cars. I think it was pretty cool that they kept us informed on what was being delivered and sold as it happened. They didn't have to do that either. That was very cool to watch.

[RedTanRT/10]

ACRSNK, Yep it was great he sold for list, as I wrote before, he probably had a $10-$15k margin advantage over the other dealers. Unusual times back then, and probably 1/2 the ACR buyers had never owned a Viper before.

[ViperGeorge]

George, they cut the price of any unsold Viper by $15k, then adjusted the price down by $15k on new production. Owners at that time were given a $15k coupon to buy/trade for a G5

Here's an article from AutoWeek back then explaining what happened. I think for many folks reading this article, they will be kind of shocked to read how slow G5 sales were back then


https://www.autoweek.com/news/a19052...ut-spur-sales/

I received a coupon for my 2014 and used it on a 2015 TA 2.0. Yes the price was dropped from 2014 to 2015 and that is why those of us that bought the car before the drop in price got the coupon. They were basically giving us back the $15K premium we paid in 2014. My 2014 GTS was something like $149K while my 2017 ACR was like $126K. The way I read your original post I thought you were implying that they gave coupons to folks that bought 2015-17 cars. My bad if I misunderstood.

I'd also add that Dodge screwed up big time with the launch. Customer ordered cars were back burnered while dealer orders for inventory were given priority. People that bought a Viper generally wanted what they wanted not something a dealer had ordered. This is one of the main reasons that there was such a high inventory.

[ACRSNK]

Dodge should come back with coupons for the Demon 170 to offset dealer gouging.

[Policy Limits]

I'd also add that Dodge screwed up big time with the launch. Customer ordered cars were back burnered while dealer orders for inventory were given priority. People that bought a Viper generally wanted what they wanted not something a dealer had ordered. This is one of the main reasons that there was such a high inventory.

So true. I ordered a Shadow Blue Pearl GTS & ended up applying my deposit to an Adrenaline Red dealer one nearly a year later since I was sick of waiting for my order.

My 17 order was a piece of cake when compared to my 13 order.....

[ViperJon]

I think for many folks reading this article, they will be kind of shocked to read how slow G5 sales were back then
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a19052...ut-spur-sales/

Sales were dead in the water until they announced the end of production AND the introduction of the TA1, TA2 and the ACR specialized trims.

[Policy Limits]

It doesn’t take a marketing genius to figure out that you should sell what the consumer actually wants. They botched that concept as well as quality control in the beginning of the generation.

I just saw the Aventador successor reveal on top gear vídeo. It is a hybrid plug in car. These naturally aspirated V10 snakes with manual transmission are the keepers at this point....

[13COBRA]

Sales were dead in the water until they announced the end of production AND the introduction of the TA1, TA2 and the ACR specialized trims.

100% correct.

[Bill Pemberton]

Unfortunately plenty of misinformation here and since this will continue into the history of the Viper I can say with certainty that Gerry Wood did not get any deal under invoice. That said I will also interject that Woodhouse, Roanoke and Tomball all felt quite betrayed as we all kept asking SRT when ordering would stop and everyone of us would have jumped at the chance to get more cars but we were not offered. The irony is I know Gastman and I were talking constantly with them about all the long term customers we were working with on special orders and I am sure Tomball was in the same boat. Since Woodhouse and Roanoke took extra Vipers every time Corporate asked ( even when Sales were down for two Decades ) ) and I know Tomball did also when they came into the game later, it was a shock we were not given the opportunit, especially as we conveyed we would do anything to help.

Gerry Wood pulled a coup and we were as shocked as anyone, Woodhouse lost over 30 Sales to customers I was working with for custom Vipers, John lost some also - I am sure the situation was the same with Tomball. Wood made a bold move, it worked, and none of us who had supported the Viper community ever thought of this, as Sales had always been based on " Turn and Earn ," and as we were talking to Corporate often it absolutely left us floored.

The three of us did get our own " Dealer Editions " yet no one was given preferential treatment on invoice pricing and that should be noted. I do know Woodhouse sold every vehicle at MSRP, or a bit less, and overall it is just a tiny Chapter in a very long, gratifying and friendly relationship with SRT. I felt compelled to bring this up because statements saying Gerry Wood got a big price cut from Corporate is the kind of incorrect information that not corrected lives on for years to come as if gospel.

[Policy Limits]

In the spirit of setting the record straight there were just two Manufacturer Dealer Editions: Tomball & Roanoke....

Got any ACR/TA stickers left?

[Bill Pemberton]

Arguing on Forums is ridiculous because often one person thinks they know more than the other, but if I walked into your office telling you how to write a legal contract you would probably laugh. Well, I fortunately sat in my office for years doing nothing but selling Vipers, chatting with customers, talking to SRT ( engineering and marketing ) and since you know so much about what Woodhouse does , I am sure you know that the concept of doing a Dealer Special Edition was entirely our idea. We were smart enough to suggest to Corporate that other Dealers be involved and when they agreed, they had discussions with the 6 largest Dealers in the US, as they wanted each Store to do more than a few cars. Only three of us decided to do the cars, and we were thrilled they liked the idea and that it was moved forward for production. Roanoke did 10, Tomball did 10, and we did 20 .............oh, sorry you are going to correct the number, but "Mr. Know it All" I am talking about the first " Dealer Car, " the ACR Convertible ( the lowest production coded Viper ever built ).

Gee, since you apparently were in on the conference calls with Tomball, Roanoke and Woodhouse you apparently know I had been bugging Dodge/SRT again to do a " Dealer Edition " and I even suggested it be offered to all Dealers if they did a decent number. They decided to just do Editions for the three of us and I even got a call from an Individual from Dodge saying we are going to do your idea again. Well , since it was our idea, we did not particularily like the red/white/blue model because we thought it looked like one of Keating's race car paint schemes , and we already had our own idea, hence we balked. Dodge/SRT called us back and said they would do our Edition as we wanted and no they did not want to as it was not as easy to do, but they did, blocking various parts so they could be used for our Edition and not come up short.

You seem to think you know everything and I will not be goaded because it is so obvious how little you understand getting things done with a Corporate Giant are, and the folks that helped get the car done with severe shortages at the end of production showed us at the Store how much they respected us. I will not name names ( I too can invoke Dealer/ SRT client privilege ) because
I and Woodhouse never leaked anything over all the years doing stuff with Dodge/SRT, we had so many folks help us that are still there, and when someone tells us/me not to ever mention they helped, I take that as gospel. See, integrity and ethics mean you keep your promises even when it would be to your benefit to tell all , and name individuals, but surprise, you are not entitled to know anymore than that, just like I am not entitled to know what you do in your Law Firm.

By the way, my payments were not within " Policy Limits " the were given with respect and trust. The fact that Dodge/SRT listened to me, granted me and Woodhouse unusual access, being trusted beyond normal measure was my pay ----- I don't need to prove anything to you, I already did that with Dodge. Thanking them for all the years was to honor their requests and I will likely go to the grave with a small book of secrets, but I know what I was allowed to participate in, I know who called me, I know who trusted me, I know who valued my advice and I know those who have the same passion I do for the Viper. For them to let me work with them is my compensation and I will forever be blessed by having involvement.

PS - By the way, John Gastman , who is a very good friend and the " Competitor " I have utmost respect for called me and stated, " Damn , Bill, you did it again!" Bernie Katz also called, and after asking me how I did it, and calling me a SOB, congratulated me for what he called a coup. Many folks know he and I did not always see eye to eye, but his call validated my persistence.

Please tell those folks who helped us sell out the car in less than 2 hours they were wrong ( it actually was less than that though I have no desire to explain that to you ) and when another Stellantis Exec. called me and said, " Damn, Bill , that is the car we should have built, " do you actually believe I care about your constant jibes?

Enjoy your Viper, join the Club again since you get plenty of rewards being on the Forum and have a nice day.

[Policy Limits]

The Edition was limited to two dealers (though initially planned for three) and in the vein of integrity I will certainly leave it at that......

One is entitled to as many opinions as desired. However, facts not so much. The fact of the matter is that the Final Year of The Viper had Six official Manufacturer Special Editions. They all have 25th Anniversary Dash badges as authentic factory releases. If a car doesn't have that it doesn't mean that it isn't still great. All Vipers are.

And yes, it is apparent that you do care. Lmaooo!

[Bill Pemberton]

You're right, I do care.......about all the Dodge folks who made sure our Dealer Edition came to fruition. Afraid I do know the facts and you goading me over the years does not " Entitle " you to know anymore.

Fact is the first Gen V Viper to sell for $250K was at Barrett Jackson in 2018 -- an ACR/TA Woodhouse Dealer Edition with factory numbered badge.

When are you going to join VOA since you spend alot of time on this Forum and it is a valuable source of Viper information.

[Policy Limits]

A Quarter Million for a sticker slapper is a great deal!

They are beautiful cars with awesome orange paint & will continue to climb in value!

[ViperGeorge]

A Quarter Million for a sticker slapper is a great deal!

They are beautiful cars with awesome orange paint & will continue to climb in value!

One just sold for over $380,000. And they are not sticker slappers. Do you have any idea what Bill had to go through to get Dodge to do 10 special cars? Clearly you don't.

[ACRSNK]

I would love to own an ACR/TA. ViperGeorge....please sell me your car!

[ViperGeorge]

I would love to own an ACR/TA. ViperGeorge....please sell me your car!

Well everything is for sale at a price. The price would be really high though. Prefix 9L Xtreme, Nth moto clutch (brand new), DSE trans/diff cooler, and both an ACR and TA sticker.

[13COBRA]

Well everything is for sale at a price. The price would be really high though. Prefix 9L Xtreme, Nth moto clutch (brand new), DSE trans/diff cooler, and both an ACR and TA sticker.

How about Two dollas?

[ACRSNK]

Well everything is for sale at a price. The price would be really high though. Prefix 9L Xtreme, Nth moto clutch (brand new), DSE trans/diff cooler, and both an ACR and TA sticker.

That sounds expensive but I am still interested.

[Policy Limits]

One just sold for over $380,000. And they are not sticker slappers. Do you have any idea what Bill had to go through to get Dodge to do 10 special cars? Clearly you don't.

Dodge did ten special cars? Or Woodhouse? He wouldn't deny the allegation that the manufacturer did not apply the side decal. Again, it is a Beautiful car. No one is more thrilled to see the value of it and other Gen V's soar through the roof than myself.

In our lifetime these snakes will see 7 figure value. Half way there already with the recent sale of that Blue & White one. Rock on!

[RedTanRT/10]

Hey Bill P, glad to see you posting, hope everything is going well for you!!

Hey I speculated Wood got a great deal on those Vipers. I've been in the industry a long time on the OEM side and have a number big volume FCA dealer friends. Over the years I've seen a number of side deals from Open Points, to big Co-op payments, parts deals, etc. etc. Look also back to '08, some FCA dealers got rewarded while others got terminated. Senior Individuals have plenty of discretionary powers!

I figured something was up, especially when a dealer from nowhere in the Viper scene jumps in and makes a big commitment, and, the factory bypasses 3 strong Viper dealers. I have a hard time believing his pulled a coup on charm!! Take care!