New Lifter inspection Is this Normal

[d124716]

Hello, I have new lifters from MOPAR that I got from the dealer. Got them out of the box and some of them have shaft play. NOT the side to side play between clips but "up/down" play. When I pinch the wheel with my fingers and push/pull the wheel (red arrows) in / out of the body I can feel (and see) the shaft moving (blue arrows). Is that normal?

PS
the lifters that came out of the car do not have that kind of play.


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[99RT10]

No, not good. DO NOT USE!!!

[dave6666]

Nice manicure.

[d124716]

The parts department is telling me that they spoke with a tech and the tech said that "they are like that until they fill up with oil". That is why the once that came out of my engine have no play, but the new one out of the box does. Is there any credibility in that?

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[d124716]

Nice manicure.

I bite them off as close as possible so they don't fill up with dirt

[Ramtuff]

I, personally would go with post #2. If there’s in and out movement on a round pin it would also equate to side movement, and go back and forth as the roller crests the cam lobe. There is no pressure lube for the roller pin to “tighten” it up.

[GTS Dean]

That sounds to me like it's one of the hundreds of thousands of garbage lifters that Dodge installed in their engines the last 20+ years. The roller should only roll on the shaft with no free play. AFAIK, the only thing that is preloaded more with oil is the cavity under the pushrod socket.

[ViperTony]

The parts department is telling me that they spoke with a tech and the tech said that "they are like that until they fill up with oil". That is why the once that came out of my engine have no play, but the new one out of the box does. Is there any credibility in that?

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My '02 OEM lifters never did that when fully bled down. I believe pre-'00 Vipers had the slow or non-bleed lifters. '00 and up bleed down but...I've never seen that kind of play as you described. I wouldn't use them. ou could also contact someone at Arrow Racing and get their advice which I think will confirm what GTS Dean said and they may be able to sell you Johnson lifters they used in their engine rebuilds or perhaps get you a quality lifter. FWIW.

[d124716]

Thank you for all the comments guys. You are correct. Took the lifters to a local engine builder to get his opinion as well he said “no good”. Drove down to the dealer took the parts guy over to their service department and show the lifters to the tech. Tech looked it over and admitted “no good”. Parts guy ordered another set.

Unbelievable! 9 out of 10 lifters out of the box are trash! And they were telling me that “they need to pump up with oil”. What a load of bull!

[MinGrey02Stg2]

Just curious, why not go with an aftermarket solution from Johnson Lifters? I'd assume they're better than anything OEM and they make ones specific to Gens I-IV.

https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...R.aspx#3650164

[heath1225]

Just curious, why not go with an aftermarket solution from Johnson Lifters? I'd assume they're better than anything OEM and they make ones specific to Gens I-IV.

https://johnsonlifters.com/Products/...R.aspx#3650164

That's what I use in my Gen 2 and I've beat it to death for 6 years without issue.

[jasond29]

I know it would be expensive but may want to look into aftermarket lifters.

[d124716]

Ultimately the bottom line of going with the dealer is I wanted everything to be stock, not educated enough about aftermarket and fearful of adjustments that might be required when going aftermarket.

Too late now, one bank has new stock lifters installed and driver’s bank has 10 of them on order.

PS
With the Johnson lifters you do not use the “dog bone” retainer bracket? Looks like there is a horizontal bar that holds the lifters together, in stock gen2 there is no bar like that. Just curious.

[Ramtuff]

You are correct about the Johnson lifters, they use a tie bar and not a dog bone.

[ellowviper]

One thing to be aware of on aftermarket lifters...regardless of make. The OEM ones are the best (if they are assembled correctly...which it appears you found a lot# that were not. I applaud your inquiry as suspect. Good job). Because the OEM roller pins are retained by a snap ring and not...get this...shot-peened mushroomed mild steel pins. Look at every aftermarket lifter and see how the roller is secured. Mushrooming the pin in place is THE CHEAPEST METHOD you can use for something like this. Any engineer worth his degree would highlight so many issues with securing the pin in this matter. I won't go into them here. OEM snap rings are the best.

[WDW MKR]

OEM quality is very suspect with these. I had to pull mine apart to swap noisy lifters when all were brand new as part of the build. It was noisy from the start. Only one was noisy, but I replaced the adjacent units to be sure. A week or so later… noise is back. Seems to be one or two of them bleeding down, as it quiets down once everything is moving. Should have listened to Craig and went with the Johnsons. Next time I’m bored, it’s coming back apart for the swap.

[d124716]

Just got a replacement set from the dealer. Well 7 out of 9 are bad! Again! Now some of you guys said you used Johnson lifters. I called Johnson and spoke with them. They said on some Gen 2 the lifter bores have to be milled down as the lifter link bar holding pin used on johnson lifters will interfere with the block lifter bore lip.

Those who used johnson lifters, what year is your gen 2?

Ps
As it was explained to me Bay circle on some of stock cams used on gen 2 will cause johnson lifter link bar pin interference on some models.

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[ViperTony]

Just got a replacement set from the dealer. Well 7 out of 9 are bad! Again! Now some of you guys said you used Johnson lifters. I called Johnson and spoke with them. They said on some Gen 2 the lifter bores have to be milled down as the lifter link bar holding pin used on johnson lifters will interfere with the block lifter bore lip.

Those who used johnson lifters, what year is your gen 2?

Ps
As it was explained to me Bay circle on some of stock cams used on gen 2 will cause johnson lifter link bar pin interference on some models.

With my stock Gen2 cam, the Johnson lifters cleared the top of the lifter bore. However, when I installed a custom aftermarket cam (different base circle vs. stock cam) for my build they didn't clear and I didn't catch or check for it. Unfortunately, I didn't check for clearance and one lifter busted apart as a result. Johnson was great and sent me their race lifter which had ample clearance. Johnson lifters are well made but a lot of $$$ for a stock setup IMO. I'd check with Prefix/Arrow to see what they recommend. They most likely have OEM lifters in stock. I may still have my OEM lifters ('02) if you're in a pinch.

[d124716]

With my stock Gen2 cam, the Johnson lifters cleared the top of the lifter bore. However, when I installed a custom aftermarket cam (different base circle vs. stock cam) for my build they didn't clear and I didn't catch or check for it. Unfortunately, I didn't check for clearance and one lifter busted apart as a result. Johnson was great and sent me their race lifter which had ample clearance. Johnson lifters are well made but a lot of $$$ for a stock setup IMO. I'd check with Prefix/Arrow to see what they recommend. They most likely have OEM lifters in stock. I may still have my OEM lifters ('02) if you're in a pinch.

Hi thanks for writing ViperTony with stock lifters at $160+ each Johnsons are actually cheaper. If this 3rd shipment of lifters is going to be trash I will try to argue my case with the dealer and have them all returned with my money refunded without restocking fee, etc.. My only concern of going with anything aftermarket is clearances, etc. However, if you say that Johnson's cleared on a stock cam on your 2002 I should be fine with my stock 2000 as I believe the gen 2 had only two different stock cams 96-99 and 00-02.

Just to clarify, you did not have to mill anything down? Johnson lifter (the race lifter) cleared if fine for you?

Also, what is the difference between the "race" lifter and the other kind that you had from Johnson?

Thanks!

[MinGrey02Stg2]

Also, what is the difference between the "race" lifter and the other kind that you had from Johnson?

Thanks!

I'm not positive on this but I believe the race "style" lifters for the Viper just mean they have tie bars and are slow leak down. The tie bars obviously prevent the lifter from spinning in the lifter bore and slow leak down means the lifter will maintain pressure behind the plunger/plunger height better, which people claim leads to more power since you'll get more of the cams lift translated to the valve.

I have the 2126 Johnson lifters in a Chevy LT5 build and have heard people spin LS builds using the same ones to 8800 RPM. For your stock application, you should have plenty of peace of mind going with the Johnsons.

[Dan Cragin]

The Dodge replacement lifters appear to have issues. There has a lot of problems with replacement lifters during the last 2 years.

I worked directly on the development of the Johnson Lifters for the Gen 1-3 Viper. These tie bar lifters work very well, but they are costly and
typically are not in stock. If you do use this lifter, I suggest the long travel lifter. Not the short travel type, unless you have aftermarket rocker arms where you can adjust preload
on the lifter.

They make these in batches, the bore size of the lifter is not standard, so it requires a special build run.

If you want to PM me, I can give more information.

[GTS Dean]

Dan,

Do you mean the OD of the lifter, or the ID of the cavity and pushrod socket?

[ViperTony]

Hi thanks for writing ViperTony with stock lifters at $160+ each Johnsons are actually cheaper. If this 3rd shipment of lifters is going to be trash I will try to argue my case with the dealer and have them all returned with my money refunded without restocking fee, etc.. My only concern of going with anything aftermarket is clearances, etc. However, if you say that Johnson's cleared on a stock cam on your 2002 I should be fine with my stock 2000 as I believe the gen 2 had only two different stock cams 96-99 and 00-02.

Just to clarify, you did not have to mill anything down? Johnson lifter (the race lifter) cleared if fine for you?

Also, what is the difference between the "race" lifter and the other kind that you had from Johnson?

Thanks!

What Dan said, Dan actually worked with me at the time (2014) on the lifters. I believe it was the "long-travel" version for my stock setup. And no I didn't have to machine anything when stock but you should check for clearance regardless. The "race" lifter is able to take higher spring loads if I recall but not needed for stock. Take up Dan on his offer...he will properly advise you.

[d124716]

Absolutely! PM sent.

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got it! on it! Thanks!

[d124716]

quick update on Mopar lifters from the dealership... after 3rd attempt to get damage free lifters from Mopar I gave up as out of a total batch spread across of 3 tries of receive and return from 30 lifters inspected only 2 turned out to be good. I've returned my lifter order and thinking for now on what to do next regarding lifters. I believe Mopar is no longer an option.