Hel p

[ViperGeorge]

As to my post above... "the proper folks ARE listening"...and I am very much encouraged.

Stay tuned !!

Ditto. I believe that you will soon see much progress with the club. Remember national and regional officers are volunteers. Many have full time jobs and running a region or the national can easily turn into a second full time job. I know our regional officers spend a great deal of time working on our regional activities and with NVE 5 coming to Colorado that workload has increased dramatically.

Having volunteers update an out of date website can take time. I've run major IT organizations for the last 40+ years and even having a full time staff and a consulting budget doesn't make major upgrades a cake walk. I think we should cut national a break. Remember too that this website is not for profit and the only thing keeping it running is funding garnered through club memberships. So if you aren't a member maybe consider joining. The relatively small membership fee contributes to a successful website.

[WDW MKR]

Isn’t that what we heard about this time last year? “Please renew and your dues will pay to fix all of these issues.” Yet, here we are. Magazine? Still an issue. Transparency? Still an issue. Financials? Still an issue. And somehow, we’ve actually added to the list with the website now being an issue. Perhaps we re-consider shutting down the magazine and using a fraction of that budget to fix the supposedly broken website on a tighter timeline without hampering communication to current and future members. The rest can go back to the regions, partially fund more semi-national events, or just reduce membership fees.

[V10Sidepipes]

Ditto. I believe that you will soon see much progress with the club. Remember national and regional officers are volunteers. Many have full time jobs and running a region or the national can easily turn into a second full time job. I know our regional officers spend a great deal of time working on our regional activities and with NVE 5 coming to Colorado that workload has increased dramatically.

Having volunteers update an out of date website can take time. I've run major IT organizations for the last 40+ years and even having a full time staff and a consulting budget doesn't make major upgrades a cake walk. I think we should cut national a break. Remember too that this website is not for profit and the only thing keeping it running is funding garnered through club memberships. So if you aren't a member maybe consider joining. The relatively small membership fee contributes to a successful website.

That’s all well and good, however communication and transparency are free and require little to no additional effort.

I was a member (mamba even) for many years before the problems surfaced last year (I say surfaced because they were being minimized by that same lack of communication and transparency). What’a really changed in the last year? If the board is now somehow uninvolved in the decision making process, I’d venture to say this club continues its march down the wrong path… Supporting it financially isn’t in the cards for me until real change takes place.

[01sapphirebob]

Isn’t that what we heard about this time last year? “Please renew and your dues will pay to fix all of these issues.” Yet, here we are. Magazine? Still an issue. Transparency? Still an issue. Financials? Still an issue. And somehow, we’ve actually added to the list with the website now being an issue. Perhaps we re-consider shutting down the magazine and using a fraction of that budget to fix the supposedly broken website on a tighter timeline without hampering communication to current and future members. The rest can go back to the regions, partially fund more semi-national events, or just reduce membership fees.

While the magazine hasnt been trouble free this year, the kinks have been worked out and I know Maurice is busting his butt to make sure that fourth issue goes out by years end.

Transparency, better then the last couple years. Not 100% but better then it has been.

How are financials still an issue? Club balanced the budget back in April (?) Either way, the club is sitting in a surplus RN.

Website? The current site is paid for through the current dues structure. The new site will actually be more user friendly and a fraction of the cost. The current code thats is being used is just old. The new site will provide a better user experience which I can’t imagine anyone would have a problem with.

[Steve M]

The new site will actually be more user friendly and a fraction of the cost. The current code thats is being used is just old. The new site will provide a better user experience which I can’t imagine anyone would have a problem with.

Just make sure it doesn't break the content that's already there. Specifically, any of my write-ups that I've done over the years that have countless hours poured into them.

I wouldn't expect it to be a problem, but you never know.

[ViperGeorge]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

[ViperSRT]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

Sad commentary right there. First do the advertisers at the top of the page contribute nothing? If they contribute I would bet my bottom dollar total web site traffic is a cost driver, not paid members visiting. And many visitors come here because of the content that is provided by members and non members alike. Thus your diatribe is nonsensical.

Then, if you consider the total potential membership sphere includes only owners, and most of these non members are owners, diatribe like you just stated is more prone to prevent future memberships. Sad indeed.

This new excuse, which obviously is not the excuse used for the previous several months, is a real beauty. Since renewals continue ad infinitum there really is no completion date for when this transition can occur.

What I haven't heard any of the board mention or offer, is to either bring back the deleted forum (and don't give me the it isn't available BS because we all know websites make backups and the backup must be available and could be reinserted easily) or use an existing forum to provide board meeting summaries and communications. Since neither of those were pursued it can be concluded the silence is intentional and we, members and non members alike, are being ignored.

[Steve M]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

Yet rarely do I see members contributing worthwhile technical content.

I've paid my dues in the past, which also happened to be the same year when everything turned sour.

I already stated what it would take for me to become a paying member again: ditch the magazine. The lion's share of the budget goes towards it, yet it is the thing I value least.

You could go back and read everything I wrote on the subject, but that part of the forum no longer exists.

With an attitude like you've just displayed, you make me not want to be affiliated with any Viper owners. "You Enthusiasts" you say? I can smell the condescension all the way from Ohio. Are you really the voice of the VOA right now?

And yes, the money is not the issue. I have principles, and I stick by them. Ditch the magazine, and I'll pay my dues.

[Bruce H.]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

George, with all due respect, you haven't been in any national Board meetings, nor your region in all, and it would be best not to surmise what is going on at national. I do appreciate and respect your best intentions for the club. Many past members care deeply about the success of the VOA, and have chosen to try to effect club improvement by not renewing, and by voicing their concerns, criticisms and suggestions vigorously in the forum that was removed. They are among a minority who care enough to stand up and challenge the status-quo, to push for change and improvement, and they have 175,000 good reasons to do that.

[01sapphirebob]

Sad commentary right there. First do the advertisers at the top of the page contribute nothing? If they contribute I would bet my bottom dollar total web site traffic is a cost driver, not paid members visiting. And many visitors come here because of the content that is provided by members and non members alike. Thus your diatribe is nonsensical.

Then, if you consider the total potential membership sphere includes only owners, and most of these non members are owners, diatribe like you just stated is more prone to prevent future memberships. Sad indeed.

This new excuse, which obviously is not the excuse used for the previous several months, is a real beauty. Since renewals continue ad infinitum there really is no completion date for when this transition can occur.

What I haven't heard any of the board mention or offer, is to either bring back the deleted forum (and don't give me the it isn't available BS because we all know websites make backups and the backup must be available and could be reinserted easily) or use an existing forum to provide board meeting summaries and communications. Since neither of those were pursued it can be concluded the silence is intentional and we, members and non members alike, are being ignored.

You may have not seen me mention on this very forum/thread but I have asked for that forum to be brought back. Both here and behind the scenes. Several times. Its not right that it has not been brought back. What was first told to the board to be a “random” pick to test the migration has now been explained to be part of the restructuring of the site. I always try to see the good in people so I take what im being told as the truth. Character flaw I guess? However, I have to believe there is a way to keep that forum active while they work behind the scenes to make the upgrades they have mentioned to us. However, im not versed in how making a website/forum works so ill leave that to the professionals and the volunteers doing the work.

[ViperGeorge]

George, with all due respect, you haven't been in any national Board meetings, nor your region in all, and it would be best not to surmise what is going on at national. I do appreciate and respect your best intentions for the club. Many past members care deeply about the success of the VOA, and have chosen to try to effect club improvement by not renewing, and by voicing their concerns, criticisms and suggestions vigorously in the forum that was removed. They are among a minority who care enough to stand up and challenge the status-quo, to push for change and improvement, and they have 175,000 good reasons to do that.

Let me say this is my last post on this subject. You can all bash me if you like but I will not respond. One of the things that struck me about this thread was how negative it was. I stopped posting on this site for quite a while because too many people were mean and bashed other forum participants, including me. However in the past 6-9 months I've noticed that the tone seemed to change. I haven't seen anyone bashing other forum members. Maybe it still occurs but I haven't seen it. There have been more helpful posts without the unneeded negative banter. This is a car club after all, it is supposed to be fun. I generally believe current leadership want to make the club better. It is not a quick solution given the financial mess that occurred. This was not the fault of the current leaders so we might not want to blame them.

I have a very clear idea of what is going on at National. I was a member of the VCA from 1999 till its demise. I have been a member of the VOA since the beginning. I have spoken with Mike (today) and I speak regularly with Jim our regional President and National Board Member (including today). I personally know several regional Presidents. I am our region's membership director. I and a couple of others tried to save the VCA but it was too far gone. I advised Maurice and Jim Johnson about the steps they needed to take to rid the club of Lee unfortunately they didn't take my advise and Lee expelled the lot of them. I even paid for Presidents who otherwise had not planned to attend the Presidents' meeting in Charlotte, to go and vote so that the VCA could be saved but too many of the Presidents at the time didn't see what we saw. I don't want the VOA to fail, far from it.

So with all due respect, don't tell me I don't know what is going on. If you want to bitch that's fine, you have the right as you are a member. Remember my post was targeted to enthusiasts not members. Not joining or not renewing to punish the club is stupid in my opinion. The enthusiasts should either join or shut the heck up. I don't care if they used to be a member and now are not because they are unhappy. That is their choice, they could join and run for national office if they think it is so easy. Heck so could you. I respect your opinions because you are a member and I assume as a Regional President you will help the club improve. The leadership of the old VCA became corrupt or power hungry. I don't see that with the VOA but I will pay close attention to any bylaw changes.

[Bruce H.]

Non-members are the future of a car club that can expect to lose as many as 10% of their annual membership due to normal attrition of members selling their cars and leaving the club, or more if there are leadership or other issues.

Our Ontario club added 62 members last year by soliciting feedback from our expired members, listening to them, using their feedback to improve our club's appeal, and then promoting our club to owners who had never been club members. That's how you grow a club, and something the VOA should eagerly embrace.

[01sapphirebob]

Yet rarely do I see members contributing worthwhile technical content.

I've paid my dues in the past, which also happened to be the same year when everything turned sour.

I already stated what it would take for me to become a paying member again: ditch the magazine. The lion's share of the budget goes towards it, yet it is the thing I value least.

You could go back and read everything I wrote on the subject, but that part of the forum no longer exists.

With an attitude like you've just displayed, you make me not want to be affiliated with any Viper owners. "You Enthusiasts" you say? I can smell the condescension all the way from Ohio. Are you really the voice of the VOA right now?

And yes, the money is not the issue. I have principles, and I stick by them. Ditch the magazine, and I'll pay my dues.

Unfortunately, ditching the magazine isnt going to be an option. There are to many folks that want it. When I renewed my membership, I renewed as a standard member for the first time in almost 13 years. Counting VCA (VENOM) and VOA (MAMBA) memberships. It was explained to me that how folks renewed was gonna be the measurement for how popular the magazine was. Well MAMBA vs Standard is a 70/30 split this year. If it were me, the magazine would be solely subscription based. Want it? Youre gonna have to pay for a subscription for it. But I digress…

Steve, i know we’ve chatted here in the past but its been a long year. Lol. So besides ditching the magazine, what would it take to get you back into a VOA membership?

[01sapphirebob]

Just make sure it doesn't break the content that's already there. Specifically, any of my write-ups that I've done over the years that have countless hours poured into them.

I wouldn't expect it to be a problem, but you never know.

And thats what we’re being told. That migration of these forums as they exist now could be an issue. So the new site will be a different look/feel but these forums will live on as they are for now. Presumably, until they figure out how to migrate these forums. Love the write-ups. Especially if its helping people. I cannot tell you how rewarding it is to see people reference the “How to” I did on the window regulators. Or how people continue to contribute to that thread. Its truly amazing. And rewarding.

[commandomatt]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

I was a member for years. Signed up right front the beginning. I got nothing out of it. Don’t go to club events, never been to a national and certainly don’t care about worthless trinkets, yet I still was a member. That magazine and knowing someone was financially benefitting is what made me quit.

If the magazine, as big of a financial burden it has been over many years, was removed, I may consider joining again.

Then I read an over the top arrogant post like yours and it really doesn’t want me to be to be associated if you
,Viper George, is an example of what a club member is.

I have said it before and I will say it again. There are a lot of past members that are ‘deplorable enthusiast’s’, waiting for this club to get its shit together. If the club doesn’t, then why would anyone want to support it? We are waiting…..and it would be a smart thing to listen to what we have to say and give us a good reason to rejoin.

PS. Steve M….I should have just read your post first and copied it as it was all the same as I wanted to say…..I was just to pissed off after reading VG’s post

[Steve M]

I respect your opinions because you are a member...

These 9 words speak volumes about your character.

And thats what we’re being told. That migration of these forums as they exist now could be an issue. So the new site will be a different look/feel but these forums will live on as they are for now. Presumably, until they figure out how to migrate these forums. Love the write-ups. Especially if its helping people. I cannot tell you how rewarding it is to see people reference the “How to” I did on the window regulators. Or how people continue to contribute to that thread. Its truly amazing. And rewarding.

It is why I've contributed in the past, and continue to contribute to this day. Clearly some value that more than others.

Unfortunately, ditching the magazine isnt going to be an option. There are to many folks that want it. When I renewed my membership, I renewed as a standard member for the first time in almost 13 years. Counting VCA (VENOM) and VOA (MAMBA) memberships. It was explained to me that how folks renewed was gonna be the measurement for how popular the magazine was. Well MAMBA vs Standard is a 70/30 split this year. If it were me, the magazine would be solely subscription based. Want it? Youre gonna have to pay for a subscription for it. But I digress…

Steve, i know we’ve chatted here in the past but its been a long year. Lol. So besides ditching the magazine, what would it take to get you back into a VOA membership?

Understood on the magazine, but that's still part of my concern. How many Mamba members blindly auto-renewed last year because they were left in the dark about what was going on with the club's financials? Until that number can be quantified (and it really can't be, unfortunately), I don't really buy the Mamba vs. regular membership numbers as a metric for the magazine's demand.

The part that concerns me the most, though, are some of the comments that you and others have made that are in leadership positions that are clearly being left in the dark about things like why the membership sub-forum was removed, and continues to be absent. I recognize and appreciate that there are folks like you and Bruce H (and others) that clearly do "get it" and are trying hard to make things right, but there seems to be more going on behind the scenes that you can't even influence, and that bothers me greatly. To me, that says there are still cancerous actors/behaviors that remain that were responsible for this mess in the first place, and until that's gone, I'm not sure the club is actually on solid ground.

Definitely more solid than it was, but still not quite there. Fix that, and I'll consider overlooking the magazine issue.

[V10Sidepipes]

I believe they held off on updating the site so that renewals could process without a major technology change right in the middle of the season. I hate to say this but you know it is members that pay for this site not Enthusiasts. If you want to help the VOA then join or stop your complaining. Now let the stones fly. I'm so tired of Enthusiasts bitching but not paying a dime to help the club. I will listen to members with valid concerns this is their club and they have the right to express an opinion positive or negative. Members can always send an email to the National President he answers, I know I've done it. Is the dues that material to you Enthusiasts that you can't afford it?

You are part of the problem. Point blank, no sugar coating it.

You and others with similar attitudes will (continue to) be the downfall of this “club” without change.

The national presents (current and former) were called out multiple times (but, how convenient, I can’t link to a non-existing sub-forum) and they were (and continue to be) SILENT about issues. They have this entire platform to communicate on and somehow can’t figure out how to use it.

Maybe you should run for national communications director. Your message is more in line with National’s anyway. “Just give us more money, that will fix everything!” Yeah, you got me. It’s the membership that costs less than an oil change thats too much for me. What an ignorant thing to say.

- Still “Enthusiast”. Deal with it.

[COI]

Let me say this is my last post on this subject. You can all bash me if you like but I will not respond. One of the things that struck me about this thread was how negative it was. I stopped posting on this site for quite a while because too many people were mean and bashed other forum participants, including me. However in the past 6-9 months I've noticed that the tone seemed to change. I haven't seen anyone bashing other forum members. Maybe it still occurs but I haven't seen it. There have been more helpful posts without the unneeded negative banter. This is a car club after all, it is supposed to be fun. I generally believe current leadership want to make the club better. It is not a quick solution given the financial mess that occurred. This was not the fault of the current leaders so we might not want to blame them.

I have a very clear idea of what is going on at National. I was a member of the VCA from 1999 till its demise. I have been a member of the VOA since the beginning. I have spoken with Mike (today) and I speak regularly with Jim our regional President and National Board Member (including today). I personally know several regional Presidents. I am our region's membership director. I and a couple of others tried to save the VCA but it was too far gone. I advised Maurice and Jim Johnson about the steps they needed to take to rid the club of Lee unfortunately they didn't take my advise and Lee expelled the lot of them. I even paid for Presidents who otherwise had not planned to attend the Presidents' meeting in Charlotte, to go and vote so that the VCA could be saved but too many of the Presidents at the time didn't see what we saw. I don't want the VOA to fail, far from it.

So with all due respect, don't tell me I don't know what is going on. If you want to bitch that's fine, you have the right as you are a member. Remember my post was targeted to enthusiasts not members. Not joining or not renewing to punish the club is stupid in my opinion. The enthusiasts should either join or shut the heck up. I don't care if they used to be a member and now are not because they are unhappy. That is their choice, they could join and run for national office if they think it is so easy. Heck so could you. I respect your opinions because you are a member and I assume as a Regional President you will help the club improve. The leadership of the old VCA became corrupt or power hungry. I don't see that with the VOA but I will pay close attention to any bylaw changes.

This is a perfect message for anyone wondering what the problems are with the VOA. I remember when the club celebrated 2000 members, now the target is just over 1000. It would be interesting to see how the long the average member has been/remained a member over the years and what the lifetime value of a member is to the club.

Keep up your "enthusiasm" for the Members and you'll continue to get your wish. There will be fewer and fewer Members to communicate with but those Members will most likely share more of your perspective so you won't have to deal with the Enthusiasts any longer. In case your wondering VG, the greatest single opportunity to attract more members is convert Enthusiasts to Members... In fact, it may be the club's only opportunity given YoY member attrition is probably higher than new members generated from resale of existing cars. As you said, you've got it all figured out and don't need any input from anyone since you "know what is going on."

[Cost4133]

Unfortunately, i regret renewing my membership this year.

My first year as a member (and new viper owner) was last year. What a Cluster that was.

This year we were promised so much change... When that membership forum disappeared, and there has been no communication since on club finances, meeting minutes etc,; It made my mind up. I am all set with paying for a membership.
I didn't make it to any of my regional events this year (i had a very busy summer personally), But i did manage to get some miles on my car and enjoy it. That is what i will continue to do, put miles on my car, smiles on my face. And look i saved 150 bucks for gas (i think that will get me 5 gallons next year)

[braunstein82]

I've been to several meetings. So far I'm surprisingly and unexpectedly impressed. They have cut the magazine cost in less than half, because the majority wanted to keep the magazine. They have changed services to lower cost since they were being gouged by long relationship services. Eliminated the store costly expense. The budgets already favorable and the plan to repay the loan looks to be ahead. My region still come first but I am optimistic of the new leadership plan for recovery. So I won't stress the $150 to see where it goes. Rather VOA survive than lose all the stores knowledge and ease of connections. I'm not gonna sweat the small stuff as much but to each there own, my region will survive regardless.

[CarolinaViper]

I've been to several meetings. So far I'm surprisingly and unexpectedly impressed. They have cut the magazine cost in less than half, because the majority wanted to keep the magazine. They have changed services to lower cost since they were being gouged by long relationship services. Eliminated the store costly expense. The budgets already favorable and the plan to repay the loan looks to be ahead. My region still come first but I am optimistic of the new leadership plan for recovery. So I won't stress the $150 to see where it goes. Rather VOA survive than lose all the stores knowledge and ease of connections. I'm not gonna sweat the small stuff as much but to each there own, my region will survive regardless.

Matt,

Are you ok with the way decisions are being made in a vacuum. Did you know about the “new” website before the deleted the “Membership Section” of the forum. Are you okay with them deleting the only section of the forum that criticized the way the national officers are running the club. How do we know they cut the magazine cost in half don’t see it in any financials. Seems to me the reason the deleted the Membership section is because it made the VOA president look bad as far as his leadership which might not be good with his and son’s side business. As for the VOA Vice-president the section that was deleted was holding him accountable for everything he said he was going to do and showed him where his actions/efforts were wrong. The “small stuff” that you are not worried about is what caused the failure the previous regime…much like where this leadership team is heading. I can’t believe the region presidents didn’t object to the deletion of the membership section. Again it was done for a reason to help the national leaders or it was utterly incompetence to use that section as a test section. Either way, I would be worried if I was a region president. It’s been over two months still has not been reinstated…why one must wonder.

[braunstein82]

Matt,

Are you ok with the way decisions are being made in a vacuum. Did you know about the “new” website before the deleted the “Membership Section” of the forum. Are you okay with them deleting the only section of the forum that criticized the way the national officers are running the club. How do we know they cut the magazine cost in half don’t see it in any financials. Seems to me the reason the deleted the Membership section is because it made the VOA president look bad as far as his leadership which might not be good with his and son’s side business. As for the VOA Vice-president the section that was deleted was holding him accountable for everything he said he was going to do and showed him where his actions/efforts were wrong. The “small stuff” that you are not worried about is what caused the failure the previous regime…much like where this leadership team is heading. I can’t believe the region presidents didn’t object to the deletion of the membership section. Again it was done for a reason to help the national leaders or it was utterly incompetence to use that section as a test section. Either way, I would be worried if I was a region president. It’s been over two months still has not been reinstated…why one must wonder.

I get what your saying. I respect your passion. I don't know about the missing section. I was not apart of the last couple meetings. I don't agree with deleting anything (unless it's abusive, foul language, nudity etc). Leaving things up and allowing everyone to talk, forces answers and accountability. For both those asking and getting asked. With that said, no one else was willing to step up and attempt to resolve the issues other than them. So what do you want them to do, let the VOA die? They took the role and we let them. So we can put our 2 cents in but ultimately it's up to them and the board what happens. Not anyone else at this point. Next election if someone wants to save the VOA and thinks they can do better, then they need to step up. They are in the role for another year, by the choice of members and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so why stress it. Constantly ridicule is only gonna cause anger and spite. Eventually they may start stepping down and then what? We have none else that was willing to take the positions. Like I basically said, our region will survive no matter what, I just think it's a waste to let the VOA die. If someone wants the VOA to survive but is not willing to step up and help in a role, then give your ideas but don't add fuel to the fire. Just my opinion and isn't directed at you specifically Jeff but to everyone, those helping and not.

[01sapphirebob]

Matt,

Are you ok with the way decisions are being made in a vacuum. Did you know about the “new” website before the deleted the “Membership Section” of the forum. Are you okay with them deleting the only section of the forum that criticized the way the national officers are running the club. How do we know they cut the magazine cost in half don’t see it in any financials. Seems to me the reason the deleted the Membership section is because it made the VOA president look bad as far as his leadership which might not be good with his and son’s side business. As for the VOA Vice-president the section that was deleted was holding him accountable for everything he said he was going to do and showed him where his actions/efforts were wrong. The “small stuff” that you are not worried about is what caused the failure the previous regime…much like where this leadership team is heading. I can’t believe the region presidents didn’t object to the deletion of the membership section. Again it was done for a reason to help the national leaders or it was utterly incompetence to use that section as a test section. Either way, I would be worried if I was a region president. It’s been over two months still has not been reinstated…why one must wonder.

The forum was not deleted...

[CarolinaViper]

The forum was not deleted...

Bob,

It’s gone, when something is taken away, moved, erased it’s deleted from its original location not to be seen anymore. So YES, in all intent purposes it’s been deleted.

[CarolinaViper]

I get what your saying. I respect your passion. I don't know about the missing section. I was not apart of the last couple meetings. I don't agree with deleting anything (unless it's abusive, foul language, nudity etc). Leaving things up and allowing everyone to talk, forces answers and accountability. For both those asking and getting asked. With that said, no one else was willing to step up and attempt to resolve the issues other than them. So what do you want them to do, let the VOA die? They took the role and we let them. So we can put our 2 cents in but ultimately it's up to them and the board what happens. Not anyone else at this point. Next election if someone wants to save the VOA and thinks they can do better, then they need to step up. They are in the role for another year, by the choice of members and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so why stress it. Constantly ridicule is only gonna cause anger and spite. Eventually they may start stepping down and then what? We have none else that was willing to take the positions. Like I basically said, our region will survive no matter what, I just think it's a waste to let the VOA die. If someone wants the VOA to survive but is not willing to step up and help in a role, then give your ideas but don't add fuel to the fire. Just my opinion and isn't directed at you specifically Jeff but to everyone, those helping and not.

Matt,

There’s been no constant ridicule…if you remember myself and many many others business owners and financial experts suggested numerous ways to improve the club. All these suggestions were in the forum that was deleted or as Bob stated not deleted but moved. So to your comment to step up many to include myself have and expressed why their decision would not work. I wished you could have read all the recommendations that were laid out for Mike and Wes to take, but it was their decision, which Wes made promising he should have known he couldn’t keep. In my opinion that’s why the Membership section was removed. No accountability, no ability to look make at what others have suggested. Wes even stated, he would like for me to review some of their ideas even if I didn’t renew my membership…never happened. When I would ask him how he came up with totals he never answered. Back to a simple question that nobody has answered: Did the region presidents who make up the Board know about the new website prior to the “removal” of the Membership section? If not, who authorized the funds to develop a new website. Thought all expenses had to be presented to the board for approval.