Brake upgrade to Racing Brake CCB

[Ritroman]

Looking at upgrading the brakes on my 2014 GTS to Racing Brake Carbon Ceramic Brakes and 6 piston front calipers. I have added a full ACR aero kit to the car in addition to DCS tractive suspension and 19 in Forgeline rims and Kumo tires and a Prefix Tune. I have done all of the aero upgrades myself with the help of VOA club member Hawk * I plan to drive on the street but it will see some track time. *I am pleased with the handling and ride quality but the brakes need improvement.*

I purchased the Viper last year and have put a lot of work into it. *Originally planned to set it up as a track car and track it along with my Corvette Z06 but I am finding out just how expensive and impractical it is to join a track around this area. *The nearest track to me is New Jersey Motorsports. That is about an hour from me without traffic. I am really only going to do track days after getting some training on that track.

I am aware that Racing Brake (RB) has a CCB kit with their CCB rotors and two-piece 6 piston calipers up front and bias altering 4 pistons in the rear. *I am concerned about going with the RB CCB package because RB does a terrible job marketing its products. *I can't find a single review of their CCB package from any track driver except for a limited review of the kit on a Mustang forum and one thread on this forum several years ago by Speedracer. *The RB website does not have any product information regarding their caliper's design or features. I also can't find very much feedback from users tracking the Racing Brake CCBs and calipers. *

I have looked into using six-piston Brembo ACR calipers with Racing Brake rotors with stock GTS rear calipers but there will be issues with too much rear brake bias unless something is changed with the rear calipers.*

I would like to know what other Gen 5 Viper drivers have done to upgrade their gen 5 brakes for the track and street. *Is Racing Brake a good option for CCB or iron brakes? I know that Warren at Racing Brake has done a lot of work engineering kits to fit the Viper and other performance cars including Tesla but I don't see much feedback from various car communities. Perhaps I should yet leave it in stock setup. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Ritroman

[Arizona Vipers]

How much is the entire package? Are you doing it for looks? Or to save weight? Your factory brakes on the Kuhmo's will NEVER fade, you would have to be an extremely fast driver to ever get them to fade, and even at that I don't think they ever will. Just keep fresh racing fluid. If you want to save a little weight and add a little insurance against fading just switch to the Stoptech rotors up front, they came on the track pack cars.
But if you are fairly new to tracking, you'll never come close to fading those brakes, especially at NJMP, it's a slow track. If you had 700+ hp, were running slicks on big tracks, and are a very fast driver, then yeah you might need to upgrade your brakes.

[Arizona Vipers]

Also, Racing Brake used to post a lot of on here. Find their username and look through their posts, might be some good info

[speedtactics]

I agree with AZ Vipers. I have 2016 with the TA 2.0 package brakes. I can say I'm a fairly fast normally run in the advanced groups at all track events I attend. I never have brake fade. Currently I am running stock brembo pads too! I will be switching to a more aggressive pad material. The stock pads don't hold up to the track stuff well and burn up fast, but surprisingly they actually work pretty well. Granted I'm not in the same class as AZ Viper, but with the right pad material and fluid these brakes are pretty damn good.
I did see someone on the FB forum that had put on the CCM RB package the car was for sale.

[Ritroman]

Thanks, Arizona Vipers for the feedback
I am spoiled driving my Z06 Corvette with CCB I love those brakes but they are a bit touchy. I drove the c7 Corvette on track numerous times at Spring Mountain with and without CC brakes. It is surprising to me how much better the handling is with CCBs vs iron rotors. Also, I Like the looks of bigger brakes on the Viper. I can get the RB CCB package for 11k including calipers. If I go Brembo I could use Racing Brake steel or CCB rotors but there will be too much rear bias with the GTS rear calipers. I have not tracked the Viper yet but concerned about what I read on this forum about braking issues (wiggle) under hard braking. I don't want to change brakes only to make a big mistake on brake bias that needs to take into account the Aero kit on the car. I am no expert on this stuff.

[speedtactics]

If you have not tracked the car yet, I would suggest you do that first. I see many people do tons of upgrades on the Vipers before they even get close to using the full potential of the car. IMO and I think AZ Viper will agree, track the car and get a feel for the car as it is now. I think you will find that the stock brakes are more than adequate for the job. As far as looks go the CCM is beautiful however after some tracking on the rotors they get small pits in them, once this happens they shred the pads. Most people serious about tracking switch the rotors out to iron rotors and conventional pads.

Thanks, Arizona Vipers for the feedback
I am spoiled driving my Z06 Corvette with CCB I love those brakes but they are a bit touchy. I drove the c7 Corvette on track numerous times at Spring Mountain with and without CC brakes. It is surprising to me how much better the handling is with CCBs vs iron rotors. Also, I Like the looks of bigger brakes on the Viper. I can get the RB CCB package for 11k including calipers. If I go Brembo I could use Racing Brake steel or CCB rotors but there will be too much rear bias with the GTS rear calipers. I have not tracked the Viper yet but concerned about what I read on this forum about braking issues (wiggle) under hard braking. I don't want to change brakes only to make a big mistake on brake bias that needs to take into account the Aero kit on the car. I am no expert on this stuff.

[ViperGeorge]

If you are concerned about rear end wiggle under heavy braking simply buy the rear calipers from Racing Brakes. They work, I have had them on my 2015 TA 2.0 and now on my steel brake ACR-E. I have never used CCBs on track because the cost of replacement seemed excessive. My ACR/TA came from the factory with steel TA brakes. My car has the 9 liter extreme upgrade so it gets going pretty good. With race pads (Raybestos ST45/ST43) and race fluid (Motul 600) I have never had fade.

I did ultimately switch to the Racing Brake front calipers as they center the pistons over the wider TA pads. The Viper OEM calipers offset the pad with the pistons as they were originally intended for the narrower non-TA pad.

[Arizona Vipers]

Thanks, Arizona Vipers for the feedback
I am spoiled driving my Z06 Corvette with CCB I love those brakes but they are a bit touchy. I drove the c7 Corvette on track numerous times at Spring Mountain with and without CC brakes. It is surprising to me how much better the handling is with CCBs vs iron rotors. Also, I Like the looks of bigger brakes on the Viper. I can get the RB CCB package for 11k including calipers. If I go Brembo I could use Racing Brake steel or CCB rotors but there will be too much rear bias with the GTS rear calipers. I have not tracked the Viper yet but concerned about what I read on this forum about braking issues (wiggle) under hard braking. I don't want to change brakes only to make a big mistake on brake bias that needs to take into account the Aero kit on the car. I am no expert on this stuff.

If you spend the time and look really hard you can do a complete OEM CCB setup for around $11K, that's about 50% off MSRP. That's what I paid about a year ago for my Turbo project car. You have to get the front knuckles too.
And my car with the stock brakes did wiggle as well, that went away when I added the ACR-E wing.

[Ritroman]

Speedtactics, I don't have the TA rotors just stop tech stock rotors. I do have 6 piston ACR Brembo calipers, not installed on the car. Got them from a salvaged viper. Want to use them or sell them. What do you think about going with 6 piston Brembo up front with a 380 or390 iron disk and leaving the real 355 with stock rotors? Any thoughts guys.

[Ritroman]

Arizona Vipers, How did you get 50% off dealer MSRP? Would do ccb if I could at that price.

[Ritroman]

Thanks for the info Viper George. Sounds like you like the RB calipers. I take it they are of good quality. Any issues?

[Arizona Vipers]

Speedtactics, I don't have the TA rotors just stop tech stock rotors. I do have 6 piston ACR Brembo calipers, not installed on the car. Got them from a salvaged viper. Want to use them or sell them. What do you think about going with 6 piston Brembo up front with a 380 or390 iron disk and leaving the real 355 with stock rotors? Any thoughts guys.

Again, you will NEVER approach the limit of those stop techs. I've got the fastest road race Viper in the country and back when it was "only 730whp", and running slicks, the brakes never faded. So unless you want the looks of the CCB's, there's no reason to change them. It would take a professional driver and at tracks like Road American or COTA to even approach the limits of the brakes you already have.

[ViperGeorge]

Thanks for the info Viper George. Sounds like you like the RB calipers. I take it they are of good quality. Any issues?

Yes, I think they are of good quality. The rear bias adjusting calipers virtually eliminated the wiggle. I did grind down the leading edges of the fronts as they were pretty close to the front wheel barrels on one set of my wheels. They weren't hitting but I wanted more clearance. I don't remember whether it was my 18" Venom wheels or my 18" Sidewinder IIs. The ACR wheels are 19 in front so there plenty of clearance with them.

I also use the Racing Brake steel TA rotors. Their hats are center mounted to the disks which seems to give them better cross air flow.

[speedtactics]

If you spend the time and look really hard you can do a complete OEM CCB setup for around $11K, that's about 50% off MSRP. That's what I paid about a year ago for my Turbo project car. You have to get the front knuckles too.
And my car with the stock brakes did wiggle as well, that went away when I added the ACR-E wing.

What he said LOL

[speedtactics]

Speedtactics, I don't have the TA rotors just stop tech stock rotors. I do have 6 piston ACR Brembo calipers, not installed on the car. Got them from a salvaged viper. Want to use them or sell them. What do you think about going with 6 piston Brembo up front with a 380 or390 iron disk and leaving the real 355 with stock rotors? Any thoughts guys.

Pm me I have a brand new set of TA wide Annulus rotors front and back if your interested.

[Lawineer]

How much is the entire package? Are you doing it for looks? Or to save weight? Your factory brakes on the Kuhmo's will NEVER fade, you would have to be an extremely fast driver to ever get them to fade, and even at that I don't think they ever will. Just keep fresh racing fluid. If you want to save a little weight and add a little insurance against fading just switch to the Stoptech rotors up front, they came on the track pack cars.
But if you are fairly new to tracking, you'll never come close to fading those brakes, especially at NJMP, it's a slow track. If you had 700+ hp, were running slicks on big tracks, and are a very fast driver, then yeah you might need to upgrade your brakes.

I think I disagree with this, assuming you're a decent driver. I was using Hawk DCT70s without aero and they were outgasing hard. I dont think they had much left. I was on Pzeros.
You definitely need to run very aggressive race pads.

With that said, race pads are a lot cheaper than CCB

[speedtactics]

I think I disagree with this, assuming you're a decent driver. I was using Hawk DCT70s without aero and they were outgasing hard. I dont think they had much left. I was on Pzeros.
You definitely need to run very aggressive race pads.

With that said, race pads are a lot cheaper than CCB

I have never used the Hawk pads, and no offense if you like them and I don't know how hard you drive (Not trying to dis you here). I don't think the real serious track guys use Hawk pads. Most go for Porterfeild or Raybestos. AZ Viper can attest to this. I would again use the brakes he has on the car and try different pads. ST43 are very aggressive and will give you a good bite as apposed to stock pads. They do require them to be operated at a bit higher temps. The stock pads actually work pretty good but can't handle the heat and wear fast and when they reach little past halfway start to get cracked from excessive heat.

[13COBRA]

I have never used the Hawk pads, and no offense if you like them and I don't know how hard you drive (Not trying to dis you here). I don't think the real serious track guys use Hawk pads. Most go for Porterfeild or Raybestos. AZ Viper can attest to this. I would again use the brakes he has on the car and try different pads. ST43 are very aggressive and will give you a good bite as apposed to stock pads. They do require them to be operated at a bit higher temps. The stock pads actually work pretty good but can't handle the heat and wear fast and when they reach little past halfway start to get cracked from excessive heat.

I prefer PFCs, but they stopped making them in my pad shape/size.

I'm going to give the Raybestos, Pagid, G-Loc and Endless pads a try.

[ViperGeorge]

I prefer PFCs, but they stopped making them in my pad shape/size.

I'm going to give the Raybestos, Pagid, G-Loc and Endless pads a try.

Problem is that Raybestos pads are hard to find but I do like the ST45s in front and the ST43s in the rear. You could use ST47s in the front but they tend to be a little bit harder to modulate.

[Lawineer]

I have never used the Hawk pads, and no offense if you like them and I don't know how hard you drive (Not trying to dis you here). I don't think the real serious track guys use Hawk pads. Most go for Porterfeild or Raybestos. AZ Viper can attest to this. I would again use the brakes he has on the car and try different pads. ST43 are very aggressive and will give you a good bite as apposed to stock pads. They do require them to be operated at a bit higher temps. The stock pads actually work pretty good but can't handle the heat and wear fast and when they reach little past halfway start to get cracked from excessive heat.

I think I just used Hawk because I could get them quicker. I dont have any real love for them. They do the job well, but they're pretty harsh on pretty much everything.
With that said, the operating temp on Hawks DCT 70's is very high.

[Tay]

Just so you are aware, Racing Brake calipers are produced by FANG JONG CO., LTD. out of Taiwan: https://www.fangjong.com.tw/productlist-en.html

I know ViperGeorge has had good experience with them, but they do not have a racing pedigree and are not used in professional motorsports.

I would stick with the OEM Brembos wether it be from an ACR or standard car and run Girodisc rotors or AP Racing rotors: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...er/SRT%20Viper

[pMak26]

Fun fact, the Viper iron brake calipers are the same calipers originally designed for the Ferrari F40, and hence what comes in the Brembo "GT or GT40" kits.

Anyway, the Hawk pads are trash, especially on anything heavier than ~2700#. I'm on G-loc R18 front and R16 rears right now because I couldn't get ST47/45/43 when I needed them. I like them but I like the Reybestos pads more.

OP - let me know when you go to NJMP. Would be nice to run with another viper.

[GTS Dean]

Anyway, the Hawk pads are trash, especially on anything heavier than ~2700#.

That's an unfair condemnation of the brand, IMO. Every type of car will be a bit different in what pads work best. Sometimes you may need to run different pads from the same manufacturer on different tracks based on operating temperatures. Some people just put a lot more heat into brake systems than others due to driving style. Pro drivers are probably going to require less variance in compounds than amateurs.

I've run 6 different front pads and 3 rear pads from 3 different manufacturers on my non-ABS Gen2 at the track over the years. OE, Brakeman, PFC and Hawk. I tried my first set of Hawks (DTC50) last year. They seem to do everything well with very modest wear on either pads or rotors - so maybe I just got lucky on my first try. I've been running PFC 90 rear pads for 20 years. I do not run track pads or rotors on the street.

[ViperGeorge]

Just so you are aware, Racing Brake calipers are produced by FANG JONG CO., LTD. out of Taiwan: https://www.fangjong.com.tw/en07.html

I know ViperGeorge has had good experience with them, but they do not have a racing pedigree and are not used in professional motorsports.

I would stick with the OEM Brembos wether it be from an ACR or standard car and run Girodisc rotors or AP Racing rotors: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...er/SRT%20Viper

To be clear I use 4 Piston Racing Brake calipers not the 6 piston ones in your link. I don't know who makes them but they have worked well.

[Ritroman]

Just so you are aware, Racing Brake calipers are produced by FANG JONG CO., LTD. out of Taiwan: https://www.fangjong.com.tw/productlist-en.html

I know ViperGeorge has had good experience with them, but they do not have a racing pedigree and are not used in professional motorsports.

I would stick with the OEM Brembos wether it be from an ACR or standard car and run Girodisc rotors or AP Racing rotors: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...er/SRT%20Viper

Thanks for the information TAY. This confirms what I thought. I could only find a BMW team using the brakes. Gives me pause.