New Viper Owner From Western PA

[PASRT10]

if you need access to a lift when the weather and roads are nicer let me know, my shop is in Finleyville

Thank you very much! I will keep that in mind.

[PASRT10]

CONGRATS!!!

The fronts being 2017 tires isn't too big of a deal, but it really depends on how the car has been stored and how you plan to use it. For cruising around town, those tires will be fine. Old tires become problematic when pushed hard, so really only a concern if you're going to be canyon carving, running the Tail, autocrossing, or tracking the car.

I will be using this as a sunny day car only with some spirited driving. I doubt it will ever see a track.

[My98RT10]

That car looks very familiar to me ...Although many say a Viper has to be red (roadster) or blue w/silver (coupe) I really like silver. For me silver is THE classic car color of all and it looks so good in the evening sun...

As for the front cover: Mine developed a coolant leak few years ago. Noticed a small puddle on the floor one day. I eventually did the repair myself in my tiny garage (you can find my write-up here somewhere). As Steve-Indy said, clean it up and see if you can detect the leaking spot.

As for the PCV-valve: Mine does not have one. If I am not mistaken there was a running change in MY98. Mine is a later one from November, earlier ones may still have the PCV-valve. Other running changes were the radiator fans (early 98 still have the 2 fan setup while mine already has the bigger single fan) and also the transmission oil (later 98 came with Castrol Syntorq right from the factory, there should be a sticker on the tranny).

So, the big question is: when was your car made (there is a sticker in the driver door that tells you when your car left the assembly line)?

Enjoy the car!!

[PASRT10]

Update! I was able to work on the car a bit last weekend. Here's what I did: I sourced new tires from JonB and installed them. Installed Quality Wires spark plug wires and Champion RC12ECC spark plugs. Installed power steering cap vent tube.

The engine was hard to start upon delivery and I was hoping plugs and wires would help. Not so much. (Keep in mind this car has been sitting a long time before I bought it) When starting, you have to give it some throttle and it will eventually fire. You have to keep a bit of throttle input for about 10 to 20 seconds or else it will stall but then it settles into a rough idle, almost like it is missing. Once it is running, it is drivable but obviously down on power and not able to rev past about 4k RPM. Surprisingly there are no CELs. The car had almost no gas in it so I put a half tank of 93 octane in and took it for about a 15 mile drive hoping it was possibly old gas that needed flushed out. Still running rough though.

Something of note is the presence of oil in the air intake box. The line going from the bank 1 valve cover to the air box had quite a bit of oil in it and all the connections at the front of the engine are wet with oil. The air intake box was an absolute mess as well with oil and the air filters had what appears to be a foam material at one time but it is all disintegrated and destroyed now. I need to get new air filters at the least. What is the recommendation on intake? I was thinking smooth tubes and K&N panel filters in the stock box?

I need to start troubleshooting my rough running engine next. I'm open to any advice. I did just order a service manual so that should arrive this week. I've been reading and think my game plan will be: Plug in a scanner and check for any stored codes (even though no light is on the dash). Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner (in case injectors are dirty from sitting for so long). Clean throttle bodies and IAC valve. Check battery to make sure it is in good condition. Reset PCM / TPS.

Can someone also let me know if my firing order is correct as shown in the picture below? I just replaced the wires on the coils exactly how they were previously. From drivers side to passenger side on the top row it goes 1-7-3-5-9. I didn't note the passenger side but will double check later. I ordered a mechanics mirror to be able to see the firing order printed on the coil pack but it will arrive later this week.

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[usmcfieldmp]

Update! I was able to work on the car a bit last weekend. Here's what I did: I sourced new tires from JonB and installed them. Installed Quality Wires spark plug wires and Champion RC12ECC spark plugs. Installed power steering cap vent tube.

The engine was hard to start upon delivery and I was hoping plugs and wires would help. Not so much. (Keep in mind this car has been sitting a long time before I bought it) When starting, you have to give it some throttle and it will eventually fire. You have to keep a bit of throttle input for about 10 to 20 seconds or else it will stall but then it settles into a rough idle, almost like it is missing. Once it is running, it is drivable but obviously down on power and not able to rev past about 4k RPM. Surprisingly there are no CELs. The car had almost no gas in it so I put a half tank of 93 octane in and took it for about a 15 mile drive hoping it was possibly old gas that needed flushed out. Still running rough though.

Something of note is the presence of oil in the air intake box. The line going from the bank 1 valve cover to the air box had quite a bit of oil in it and all the connections at the front of the engine are wet with oil. The air intake box was an absolute mess as well with oil and the air filters had what appears to be a foam material at one time but it is all disintegrated and destroyed now. I need to get new air filters at the least. What is the recommendation on intake? I was thinking smooth tubes and K&N panel filters in the stock box?

I need to start troubleshooting my rough running engine next. I'm open to any advice. I did just order a service manual so that should arrive this week. I've been reading and think my game plan will be: Plug in a scanner and check for any stored codes (even though no light is on the dash). Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner (in case injectors are dirty from sitting for so long). Clean throttle bodies and IAC valve. Check battery to make sure it is in good condition. Reset PCM / TPS.

Can someone also let me know if my firing order is correct as shown in the picture below? I just replaced the wires on the coils exactly how they were previously. From drivers side to passenger side on the top row it goes 1-7-3-5-9. I didn't note the passenger side but will double check later. I ordered a mechanics mirror to be able to see the firing order printed on the coil pack but it will arrive later this week.

Plugs look correct. I can verify against my service manual later, if still required.

That airbox looks like it was a PITA to clean up!

[PASRT10]

Update! I was able to accomplish some more work on the car. I installed new front and rear sway bar end links. The boots were all very deteriorated on the originals. Also installed Roe smooth tubes with S&B filters.

I had a local shop flush the coolant and replace with the Mopar HOAT. Oil change with Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro along with an OEM Viper filter. Drain and fill transmission fluid with Mopar ATF+4 (which now it is exhibiting NGR, which it didn't before). Flush and fill the brake and clutch fluid with DOT4 Castrol SRF. Drain and fill the power steering fluid with Valvoline power steering fluid. Drain and fill the differential with Mopar 75W/140 Synthetic and 4oz of Mopar limited slip friction modifier additive. I had a shop do this and not myself because I wanted the coolant properly flushed and I didn't have that capability. Figured while they're at it they can do all the other fluids, too.

They did state inspection and now I'm stickered and ready to drive legally on the road.

I have about 150 miles on the car so far and it is still running rough. It can now start on its own after about 5 seconds of cranking, which is an improvement. Light to part throttle feels strong but when I get over half throttle it starts running very rough. It can struggle its way to redline if you stay in it long enough and modify throttle input, but it is very rough.

I guess I'm at the point now where I will need professional help. I asked my local Dodge dealer if they had a Viper tech on staff, they said yes let me get him for you. They sent a guy out who said, and I quote, "is that the car with the V10?". I politely said no thank you and walked out.

If anyone in the Pittsburgh, PA region knows of a competent mechanic who can troubleshoot a Gen2 I would be greatly appreciative to have their name and number.

[SRT_BluByU]

I asked my local Dodge dealer if they had a Viper tech on staff, they said yes let me get him for you. They sent a guy out who said, and I quote, "is that the car with the V10?". I politely said no thank you and walked out.

now that is funny... it sure can be hard to find good Viper mechanics.

Did you check to make sure the throttle blades are opening up all the way? What about checking the fuel pressure at the rail? Fuel Flter? Bad/dirty or plugged injectors could be a problem but would be a lot harder to check I would think. Any exhaust restrictions?

[PASRT10]

now that is funny... it sure can be hard to find good Viper mechanics.

Did you check to make sure the throttle blades are opening up all the way? What about checking the fuel pressure at the rail? Fuel Flter? Bad/dirty or plugged injectors could be a problem but would be a lot harder to check I would think. Any exhaust restrictions?

Thanks for the reminder! I forgot to add I had the shop install a new fuel filter and I also ran a 12oz bottle of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner through it. After the new filter and running the half tank of fuel with the cleaner in it the car will now start and idle on its own and also gained some more RPM. Before, it would barely start and idle and it wouldn't get above about 3500 RPM. So the filter and the cleaner did something good, just not all of it.

I still have on my list to clean the throttle bodies and IAC. I have not checked the fuel pressure at the rail. I assume I would have to do that under load while driving. Would have to figure out a way to plumb a line from the rail to perhaps under a windshield wiper or something?

Exhaust restrictions: That I cannot say. It is all original stock equipment. This is the first Gen 2 Viper I've driven but it does sound to me to possibly have a slight exhaust leak. I've been throwing around the idea of installing high flow stainless cats to see if that would help things but I'd rather not just throw parts at it; I'm more the kind that likes to have somewhat definitive proof of a cause if able.

[SRT_BluByU]

get your servivce manuals so you knonw the correct values.. but you can check the fuel pressure at the rail at idle first. there should be a procedure to verify both the pump is still strong and the pressure regulator isnt nuked up. Might have some funky injectors also.. whats the mileage? reading spark plugs on a FI machine isnt as easy as old carb mills. but it might be worth a shot.. an obviously bad injector might show lean/rich signs on the plug depending if its blocked or stuck open. .

[camarochevy1970]

Have you contacted Diehl in Robinson yet? I know they have a real Viper tech. Sounds like you went to South Hills Dodge

[PASRT10]

I do have the service manual and will check on the fuel pressures and report back.
The car has 19,xxx miles and from what I was told, it (obviously) sat for a long time in a collection.
Reading the plugs is a good idea to see if any are showing different wear. I will look into that. Thankfully this engine is very easy to pull plugs!

I have not contacted Diehl yet. I was informed by a local member to call Diehl of Butler as that is where the best Viper tech is located.

I drove the car to work today (about a 25 mile one-way drive) and I'm hoping it's not my imagination but it seems to be running slightly better. I have about 175 miles on it so far and I think I need to get a few hundred on it before throwing in the towel and taking it in to the shop. I have high hopes that driving it is cleaning out whatever is holding it back.

I'll be travelling out of the country for a while and not able to drive the car so it will be a few more weeks before I can get more miles on it. I'll report back as I work on it and drive it more.

[daveg]

You also have Tator in NY. NGR in the tranny is normal with ATF + 4.

[PASRT10]

Edit: I forgot to mention, even though there is no CEL on, I decided to plug in an OBD reader to see if there are any codes stored. I found it has a P1282 Fuel Pump Relay CKT code stored.

I got some more work done on the car last weekend. Pulled all 10 plugs and inspected them. They were all in the same condition with various degrees of white residue on the strap. These plugs now have approximately 300 miles on them.

Here is the cleanest plug:

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Here is the one with the most residue:

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From the limited amount of knowledge I have on reading spark plugs I would venture to say these are possibly exhibiting a lean condition.

I purchased a fuel pressure gauge and proceeded to check my fuel pressure under various conditions.

1. At key ON, the fuel pump energizes for approximately 8 to 10 seconds (it has a previously installed "Primer Timer" device which runs the fuel pump for a longer duration at key ON). During this period, the fuel pressure slowly rises from 0 to about 40 PSI. Once the pump shuts off, the fuel pressure immediately returns to 0 PSI. I have found if you engage the starter at anywhere over 30 PSI the engine will start fairly easily; if you wait until the fuel pump stops then the engine will crank for a few seconds before starting.

2. Once the engine is running, at idle the fuel pressure is at 42 PSI as shown here (sorry for the sideways pics...don't know why it's doing that!):

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Checking my service manual, the correct fuel pressure at idle should be 55 PSI.

Seeing how my fuel pressure is low at idle and also not holding any pressure when the fuel pump shuts off, I am assuming I have a faulty pressure regulator or fuel pump. For giggles ( and considering the P1282 code), I sourced a new fuel pressure relay (modified an RL45 to fit) and it did not change any of the above results. I planned on doing a test while driving and seeing what the fuel pressure is during engine load but didn't see the point since I'm low at idle.

I think it is time to bite the bullet and call the Viper tech up at Diehl in Butler.

[PASRT10]

I finally threw in the towel and took it to Diehl of Butler. There is indeed a Viper technician there who used to work at Diehl of Robinson and he was able to verify the fuel pump was bad. I ordered a new assembly from the only place online I could find one ready to ship.

Roughly $3,000 later(!) my Viper is finally running strong. That is one expensive fuel pump assembly. The team at Diehl of Butler were great to work with and I am very pleased with their service. I would recommend them to anyone with a Viper in the area. Shawn and Dominic in the office helped me and Andy was the tech. They were all top notch people.

All said and done (to this point) I have exactly $6,712.05 wrapped up in parts and labor to get this thing sorted. I would say half of that was expected (regular maintenance items) but the fuel pump assy was not. Let this be a good learning lesson for anyone purchasing one of these cars and what to possibly expect. Considering these expenses, I no longer feel I got a great deal on the car. I'm probably now at market value (or what was market value last winter as I feel prices are starting to fall).

I look forward to actually driving the car until winter comes and wringing out the final issues. Next up is what I believe to be an exhaust leak on the driver's side. I think it might be at the connection between the manifold and pipe that goes through the sill. Maybe in the Spring time I will put some high flow cats on it and possibly an exhaust system.

[Steve-Indy]

I ALWAYS tell prospective Gen I and II Viper buyers to have an extra $6000.00 to $10,000.00 ready to spend AFTER they purchase the Viper in order to make said cars safe and reliable for road use.

[Cody's Car Conundrum]

I ALWAYS tell prospective Gen I and II Viper buyers to have an extra $6000.00 to $10,000.00 ready to spend AFTER they purchase the Viper in order to make said cars safe and reliable for road use.

Will save this for my future self, haha.

[jpmst3]

Bummer about the extra expenditures, but glad you got it sorted out.