Should I buy this viper

[Zajackso]

Hello, I am looking at a 2013 viper w about 12k miles. In looking through the paperwork, I see the previous owner has set up the car for the track. From the looks of it, a pretty serious track car. He replaced the heads w blue print ported heads, track wheels with slicks, exhaust, intake, poly bushings, sway bars, long tube headers. The first owner had it for about 7k miles.

Question; how do these handle up to track use? Is it a ticking time bomb considering it’s rough past life?

75% of the car was repainted due to it being “keyed.” No proof of what actual damage was done.

With a 30k discount from market price, is this still risky?

[Steve-Indy]

To me, it's risky...BUT it depends on your intended use, your mechanical skill set and appetite, definition of "market price", and a THOUROUGH INSPECTION.

Hopefully, others will weigh in.

[Voice of Reason]

I haven’t read of a single person with a Gen V porting the heads and not also changing the cam. This thing needs a thorough inspection.

[darbgnik]

I haven’t read of a single person with a Gen V porting the heads and not also changing the cam. This thing needs a thorough inspection.

What he said. The Gen IV and V heads supposedly flow very well, from factory, thus you definitely don't hear of nearly as many people getting headwork, like the previous generations. Usually a change to a solid camshaft, as opposed to the cam in cam stocker, plus heads, yields worthwhile results. I can't remember anyone doing only heads on a Gen V. That and the 70% repaint from keying definitely makes this car sound like it has a story. With todays prices, a 30K discount isn't what it used to be percentage wise.

That aside, track use itself wouldn't steer me away from a Viper. Mine has plenty of track use, and if I swapped the rotors and tires, and reset the factory alignment, you would never be able to tell. In this post warranty, used market, I think I might trust one with some use to be sorted better than one that's been sitting on a trickle charger for years, and pulled out on Sundays to fetch a Starbucks.

[Steve M]

I haven’t read of a single person with a Gen V porting the heads and not also changing the cam. This thing needs a thorough inspection.

Back in the Gen 4 days, this was not unheard of...pretty much no one offered a fixed cam solution for the Gen 4/5 engines until the Gen 5 came out and had been out for a while. Ported heads was pretty much the last thing you could do as a "bolt on" solution before you had to start digging deep in your pockets for more power (forced induction with an aftermarket engine management solution).

The power gains were usually fairly minimal (maybe +20 HP) for the amount of money it costs to do (all labor hours for porting as well as pulling/installing them), so it wasn't super popular.

This is at least one example of how much power you could make with full bolt-ons + ported heads:



That's maybe about 1-2 MPH faster than what a non-ported heads full bolt-on car would likely do, so about +10-20 HP or so.

If I recall correctly, that car put down around 650-660 RWHP, and just looking at his wheel tire combo, it wasn't optimized for the drag strip, so there's definitely some left on the table.

[Properstyle]

I haven’t read of a single person with a Gen V porting the heads and not also changing the cam. This thing needs a thorough inspection.

Then you haven’t heard of Greg good. Who offered a CNC program for the viper. A lot people generally do heads and cam together but doing just heads on a viper yeilds gains as well as they also cut the heads which bumps up compression.

This was exactly what I was planning to do with my car espically staying stock ecu when you can’t take full advantage of having a cam on these cars.

[Lawineer]

Then you haven’t heard of Greg good. Who offered a CNC program for the viper. A lot people generally do heads and cam together but doing just heads on a viper yeilds gains as well as they also cut the heads which bumps up compression.

This was exactly what I was planning to do with my car especially staying stock ecu when you can’t take full advantage of having a cam on these cars.

I would think you definitely need a tune with ported heads and especially with higher compression. Higher compression, more airflow and the same timing seems like a bad idea.

Anyway, you never 100% know with a used car like this. Clean low mileage cars can be nightmares and vice versa. Heck, even new cars can be headaches. You play the odds. New cars are a lot less likely to give you problems. Cars with ported heads and no cam and etc CAN be done for fun, but the odds are, there is more to the story.

How much headache and risk is $30k worth to you? I think that's the question. If I had a bigger garage and a lift and more free time, I'd probable be more inclined to roll the dice. Worst case, I spend that $30k on upgrades when things go wrong. Unfortunately, I dont have garage space or time to spare, so I would personally pass. There was a time I'd be more interested in something like this.

[darbgnik]

Then you haven’t heard of Greg good. Who offered a CNC program for the viper. A lot people generally do heads and cam together but doing just heads on a viper yeilds gains as well as they also cut the heads which bumps up compression.

This was exactly what I was planning to do with my car espically staying stock ecu when you can’t take full advantage of having a cam on these cars.

I think most in the Viper community have heard of Greg Good, and generally his name is synonymous with Viper heads. That being said, the number of heads(alone) done in Gen 5's is multitudes lower than Gen 1, 2 or 3. I don't think anyone would say heads alone are a bad idea on Gen 5's, but the take rate is low.

[Zajackso]

Thanks for the replies. Is the implication of the mis-matched mod that they didn’t know what they were doing or that I’m just not getting the whole story?

I’m leaning toward letting it go but may feel him out on how much more of a discount I could get out of him.

[chris_lee]

Is this car gunmetal pearl? I looked at one 4 years ago that had been repainted for the same reason. Wonder what happened to it.

Hello, I am looking at a 2013 viper w about 12k miles. In looking through the paperwork, I see the previous owner has set up the car for the track. From the looks of it, a pretty serious track car. He replaced the heads w blue print ported heads, track wheels with slicks, exhaust, intake, poly bushings, sway bars, long tube headers. The first owner had it for about 7k miles.

Question; how do these handle up to track use? Is it a ticking time bomb considering it’s rough past life?

75% of the car was repainted due to it being “keyed.” No proof of what actual damage was done.

With a 30k discount from market price, is this still risky?

[Zajackso]

No, this one is red.

[Lawineer]

Depends on track usage.
If you saw my car, you’d think it was a was track car for an HPDE rat. Aero, chewed rubber on the edge of the tires, coilovers, etc.
it’s had less than one full session - maybe 8 or 9 laps- on it and I’d be very surprised if it ever saw the track again.

With that said, I’m guessing that thing blew a head gasket. You don’t just port heads on a stock cam.

[Steve M]

With that said, I’m guessing that thing blew a head gasket. You don’t just port heads on a stock cam.

Sure you do. It isn't popular, but it most definitely has been done many times. I'm sure Greg Good can tell you approximately how many he's done for Gen 4 & 5 guys, and I know there are other shops out there that have offered a similar service.

Could it have blown a head gasket? Maybe, but that wouldn't be the first conclusion I'd jump to in this case.

[Lawineer]

Sure you do. It isn't popular, but it most definitely has been done many times. I'm sure Greg Good can tell you approximately how many he's done for Gen 4 & 5 guys, and I know there are other shops out there that have offered a similar service.

Could it have blown a head gasket? Maybe, but that wouldn't be the first conclusion I'd jump to in this case.

I suppose anything is possible, but I’d assume there’s a reason he took his heads off and it wasn’t just to port them and leave the rest of the engine stock.

[Mikey]

What's he asking for it? Personally I would avoid cars with potential headaches

[Zajackso]

He is asking 90k. I am on the fence about potential headaches. The previous owner has driven it 6k miles on the current setup and hasn’t had any issues.

[srtoad4]

I talked to that owner, he was shady as he said the car has never had any paint work / etc. Pulled a Carfax on it and it says it was involved in an accident with MAJOR damage, entire driver side of the car was involved, etc. Big red flags with that car. Sounds like the car was t-boned.

[Mikey]

I talked to that owner, he was shady as he said the car has never had any paint work / etc. Pulled a Carfax on it and it says it was involved in an accident with MAJOR damage, entire driver side of the car was involved, etc. Big red flags with that car. Sounds like the car was t-boned.

I should probably read all the comments before posting

[Old School]

This is the kind of deal I always look for, one that doesn't check all the boxes and is being shunned. It's the way to get that deal....

[pMak26]

He is asking 90k. I am on the fence about potential headaches. The previous owner has driven it 6k miles on the current setup and hasn’t had any issues.

That sounds like a steal. If you pass on it someone will scoop that up VERY quickly.

[Mbccenter]

Vipers are built to be on the track... You can tell how heavy it was tracked from the rock chips in the front, windshield, and behind the tires. Did the calipers change color? Rotors? For the engine I think it is a good thing. You know it is not one of the issue engines with heavy track use. Would not scare me and getting a deal sounds like a bonus.

[jpmst3]

Don't walk, run from that nightmare. Let someone else deal with those headaches and consider yourself lucky to have avoided it all through do diligence.

[Zajackso]

I talked to that owner, he was shady as he said the car has never had any paint work / etc. Pulled a Carfax on it and it says it was involved in an accident with MAJOR damage, entire driver side of the car was involved, etc. Big red flags with that car. Sounds like the car was t-boned.

Yes, he told me he believed the door only was repainted due to it being keyed. The car fax said “severe damage” to the front, side and rear. I looked at the car and those areas were definitely all painted.

He had no paperwork for what was repaired.

He also told me the previous owner only had “one track day but didn’t like it” - little hard to swallow, considering it had paperwork saying there were dedicated track wheels with slicks, 5 point harness and fire extinguisher.

[pMak26]

Yes, he told me he believed the door only was repainted due to it being keyed. The car fax said “severe damage” to the front, side and rear. I looked at the car and those areas were definitely all painted.

He had no paperwork for what was repaired.

He also told me the previous owner only had “one track day but didn’t like it” - little hard to swallow, considering it had paperwork saying there were dedicated track wheels with slicks, 5 point harness and fire extinguisher.

This certainly changes things. However, if I were in the market for a Viper I could hoon around it, I'd have this one inspected for sure but at the asking price it still seems a good deal. Sometimes buying a not perfect car allows you to enjoy it that much more.

[Hawk]

A car like this warrants a prepurchase inspection from a knowable person . I would also have an oil sample test done on the engine oil to see if there are any potential issues. If the inspection and oil comes up clean I wouldn’t be afraid of it (especially at a $30K discount). I would not have any worries if it was tracked or not. Usually someone that tracks their car tends to be up on all the maintenance (and then some) .These cars were designed for this type of use. If you plan on just using it on the street you may want to adjust the alignment.