2000 GTS Slave clutch cylinder

[d124716]

Hello all, got a puddle under the clutch the other day. Looks like slave cylinder gave way, clutch reservoir is empty. Will be looking into doing it shortly. Had a few questions:

1. Anything else I should replace / look into while down there (some folks have said do the main cylinder as well)

2. Any other gaskets, bolts, etc. that I will need while doing the job (manual said to put new straps on propeller shaft u-joint)

3. Any recommendation on replacement parts, what to get and what not, which manufacturer works best.

3. Any words of wisdom as to dos and don'ts, what works best, what doesn't.

Thank you!

[Lunchbox]

Good rule of thumb to replace clutch master and slave at the same time because they're the same age in general (If still original OEM). One good new part will put a bit more pressure on the older one and expose any weak points.

Can't tell you much more as i'm going to be in this boat somewhat soon myself, so i'll be watching to see what replies you get!

[dave6666]

I'm on my 3rd slave and original master. My results differ from others.

Put a new clutch kit in while you are in there. The factory Luk kit is usually under $160 from Rock Auto.

Get a 30" wobble extension for the upper bell housing bolts.

[Lunchbox]

Ah, another thing. Check the rear main seal for seepage while you're in there. No better time to do it than when the clutch is out if its showing signs of needing replacement.

[dave6666]

Ah, another thing. Check the rear main seal for seepage while you're in there. No better time to do it than when the clutch is out if its showing signs of needing replacement.

Changing the slave does not require removal of the clutch.

[Lunchbox]

Changing the slave does not require removal of the clutch.

Yeah... i realize this now that it was strictly for the slave. for some reason i was figuring it was clutch overall when i wrote that comment.

Carry on!

[d124716]

All good comments thank you, keep them coming!

Any recommendation on where to buy the slave cylinder? Would love to buy something that lasts and stay away from known offendors.

Thanks!

[Dan Cragin]

Slave cylinder is no longer available from Dodge. I think I have a couple. The Rock Auto ones come with the hose and are not prebled.

The last 3 Clutch Kits I got from LUK for a Viper had the wrong disc.

Rock Auto has a few options, all seem to work well.

If you have a budget you might consider a dual disc, more clamp load and softer pedal.

if you do the clutch, change the pilot bearing.

[d124716]

I'm on my 3rd slave and original master. My results differ from others.

Put a new clutch kit in while you are in there. The factory Luk kit is usually under $160 from Rock Auto.

Get a 30" wobble extension for the upper bell housing bolts.

Hi dave6666 - do you mind sharing approximately how many miles in between slave changes? Also, where did you bought the last 3 slave cylinders? Where they from the same place? Were they the same manufacturer?

Thanks!

[lane_viper]

I did all this when I needed to rebuild the T56.

Like Dave I went with LUK.

Unfortunately I don't see them at rockauto

Slave with bearing: LUK LSC134
Clutch kit with pilot bearing: LUK 05088

I did not replace the master.

I have had good experiences with LUK products, I put a LUK kit in my c5 z06 as well, and have no issues.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

All good comments thank you, keep them coming!

Any recommendation on where to buy the slave cylinder? Would love to buy something that lasts and stay away from known offendors. Thanks!

Im going to vent here, flame-away: Why not 'always' refer to, or look for, forum sponsors FIRST?

PartsRack has 4 in stock, and have shipped 2 already this week. Same-Day shipping common.

It has cost me THOU$AND$ to be here, and yes, your support might cost you +$10 over non-sponsors, but DANG!

"THANK YOU FOR YOUR REFERRALS AND YOUR SUPPORT" JonB@PartsRack.com

[dave6666]

Rock Auto still has the Luk 05088 and it is $185.79. It's not listed under Viper.

If the disk didn't fit the Viper T56 it may be because they screwed up and put a Corvette spec disc in which has a smaller spline on the input shaft.

[lane_viper]

Rock Auto still has the Luk 05088 and it is $185.79. It's not listed under Viper.

If the disk didn't fit the Viper T56 it may be because they screwed up and put a Corvette spec disc in which has a smaller spline on the input shaft.

Thanks Dave, weird its not listed under Viper.

the Disk that came with mine for that kit was spot on. Came with 2 alignment tools, I'm assuming one for the SRT Ram truck and for the Viper.

[goggles Pizano]

...The last 3 Clutch Kits I got from LUK for a Viper had the wrong disc....

What was the number on the disc that was wrong? Looking to buy a LUK for future install so don't want it sitting and then find out it is wrong.

[dave6666]

I dug out my spare Luk kit that is dated 2015. Took some measurements of the disc. It is a 26 spline 1-1/8" shaft, 12-1/4" OD. Those measurements are correct. It came with the dual pilot bearings and alignment tools for both the Viper and LT1 spec. Which brings up the statement I made earlier that the splines between the Viper and LT1 might be different. They are not. There are other differences between the Viper and LT1 T56 but input shaft splines is not one of them.

My spare:

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20211115_182040.jpg

[dave6666]

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[d124716]

Got the tranny out today, that was fun. I believe slave cylinder leak is confirmed. Few questions for the group today:

1. Does anyone change the O-Ring on clutch line coupler (circled in red below). If you do where do you buy it?
2. Is there a way to tell how much more "life" I have left on the clutch from the pictures below (car has 22K miles)? I would hate to do this all over again if clutch is "near death".
3. Anything else looks out of order?
4. Where the back of the slave cylinder meets the transmission there looks to be fine metal dust with grease (see below circled in red). Is this a concern?
5. When putting new slave on do I have to grease / oil anything?
6. What is the best way way to bleed the system? I am not sure if slave replacement will come pre filled or not. I know my clutch fluid reservoir is empty it all leaked out so assuming the air to be everywhere.
7. Anything else to change out while the transmission is out (everything looks dry. Fluid was changed earlier this year, doing the shifter while the tranny is out).

Thank you!

[d124716]

more images

[dave6666]

It has been discussed in this thread the value, and cost... of replacing the clutch and pressure plate while you have it apart. Re-read that to answer your question of "should I...?"

The metal shavings at the input shaft could have come from the ID of the slave based on the wear on the pics. I would clean that off using a soft bristle paint brush and very low pressure air. Soap and water would work well with the brush as well. You need to be careful not to push any of that further in or you'll be pulling it all back apart to replace that seal. Nothing under the car will be harmed by soapy water.

I would not skip doing the flywheel pilot bearing based on the input shaft appearing to have rubbed the slave. You'll have to pull the clutch to do that so............... see bullet point 1) above?

There are no lubrication steps needed other than the obvious ones. I do use a small amount of distributor grease on the input shaft splines to the clutch disk. I use Bosch distributor grease for that. To those that might say you should never do that as it will fly off and get on the clutch friction surface, buy some of the grease first before making that dumb observation.

I've never replaced the dry break o-ring. If it does not look scored just make sure it has a little fluid on it before reassembly so it slides back in.

If the slave is pre-filled a word of warning when reassembling the tranny to the engine. It CAN prevent the tranny from making up to the bell housing if it's super full. You will need to open the bleed port if that is the case to let some of the fluid out. The bell housing bolts should not start to get tight 1/4" from the tranny drawing up... The pressure in the slave, even if the tranny bolts up, can also prevent the dry break coupler from being able to be connected and seated. Once again, open the bleeder to relieve that pressure.

I vacuum bleed the slave using a mityvac and the adapter in the pic below. Others like the "drip" method. I've been vacuum bleeding my slaves and calipers for decades on every vehicle I own so that's my go-to.

Slave Bleed Pic2.jpg

[njsteve]

I just did the master and slave cylinders in my 93. Not a bad job. I left the original clutch installed since the car only had 8,000 miles and I've owned it since knew and knew exactly how it's been driven. Plus, no fluid got on the clutch face from the leaky slave cylinder. At 20,000 miles and no knowledge of who drove or how the car was driven, I would replace the clutch assembly and pilot bearing.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...ck-on-the-road

The O-ring comes with any slave cylinder kit you buy. I did not replace mine and there isn't any leakage. I have also heard a lot of horror stories about the replacement O-rings being too thick to allow the hose to rengage and lock.

I also installed a remote bleeder line and routed it to the area under the master cylinder, where it is soooo much easier to bleed into a bottle without pouring down the side of your transmission or inside of your transmission tunnel. Added bonus: you can bleed it without getting under the car or needing to jack it up.

As for cleaning out that powdery silver "dust" I would use a dry, narrow, long bristle, paint brush and use a shop vacuum with the nozzle held right up close to the area when you are brushing. This way you can pull out the residue and not push it back further into the transmission.

There is a specific way to bleed that slave cylinder once installed. It does not bleed like a brake line. You have to pump it up 15 to 20 times, then release the fluid. Then close the valve and pump it another 15 times. You will notice an immediate change in the pedal pressure - it gets harder to press and the slack goes away. On mine it took four or five of these bleed precedures, to get it back to proper feeling. Just doing it like a brake bleed will result in air staying in the system. (Make sure you refill the master clinder after every attempt as it goes down quickly and you dont want to reintroduce air in the system).

[d124716]

Thank you for comments and guidance. I will get a new clutch and pilot bearing while at it. Few more questions:

All for street driving

1. Clutch - any reason NOT to go with stock?
2. Buying "new old stock" - any words of caution with that? Brand new parts .. but they've been on a shelf for a while
3. Pilot bearing - any reason NOT to go with stock on this one?
4. Flywheel - I see some people changing to Aluminum... .any pro/con with that?
5. What method worked best for pilot bearing removal? I've seen grease, bread, pullers... what worked?

Thanks!

[efnfast]

RE - removing the pilot bearing - use the bread trick (stuff hole with bread, wrap electrical tape around a socket extension to make a snug fight, pound on bread a bit, add more bread, repeat, etc.)

I was highly skeptical the first time I did it but the bread actually does like a hydraulic press and the bearing pushes out easy-peasy and clean-up is nice and easy (no mess). I use the bread trick all the time now when removing pilot bearings that go into a blind hole.

[njsteve]

Does it have to be American bread since it's a Dodge? Would marbled rye be acceptable this time of year? I mean do you use French bread for Bugattis and Italian bread for Ferraris? :-)

Just kidding. I have seen those videos of people using bread and I was amazed too!

P.S. they do make a specialized puller tool for pilot bearings. Sometimes your local Advance Auto or Autozone will rent them to you cheaply. Or amazon or Harbor freight has decent ones.

[d124716]

Good deal! Went to Autozone and rented every "inner" type bearing puller and slide hammer.... we'll see what works, hoping that "heavy metal" will do the trick and I won't have to feed my snake carbs.

THANK YOU!

[d124716]

It has been discussed in this thread the value, and cost... of replacing the clutch and pressure plate while you have it apart. Re-read that to answer your question of "should I...?"

The metal shavings at the input shaft could have come from the ID of the slave based on the wear on the pics. I would clean that off using a soft bristle paint brush and very low pressure air. Soap and water would work well with the brush as well. You need to be careful not to push any of that further in or you'll be pulling it all back apart to replace that seal. Nothing under the car will be harmed by soapy water.

I would not skip doing the flywheel pilot bearing based on the input shaft appearing to have rubbed the slave. You'll have to pull the clutch to do that so............... see bullet point 1) above?

There are no lubrication steps needed other than the obvious ones. I do use a small amount of distributor grease on the input shaft splines to the clutch disk. I use Bosch distributor grease for that. To those that might say you should never do that as it will fly off and get on the clutch friction surface, buy some of the grease first before making that dumb observation.

I've never replaced the dry break o-ring. If it does not look scored just make sure it has a little fluid on it before reassembly so it slides back in.

If the slave is pre-filled a word of warning when reassembling the tranny to the engine. It CAN prevent the tranny from making up to the bell housing if it's super full. You will need to open the bleed port if that is the case to let some of the fluid out. The bell housing bolts should not start to get tight 1/4" from the tranny drawing up... The pressure in the slave, even if the tranny bolts up, can also prevent the dry break coupler from being able to be connected and seated. Once again, open the bleeder to relieve that pressure.

I vacuum bleed the slave using a mityvac and the adapter in the pic below. Others like the "drip" method. I've been vacuum bleeding my slaves and calipers for decades on every vehicle I own so that's my go-to.

Slave Bleed Pic2.jpg

Hi Dave, last check just to make sure I don't miss anythign. I get what you are saying about the shaft spleens and clutch disk. Pardon for stupid question on my part but what are the "....obvious ones" in terms of lubrication points? In my pictures I see grease all over the "shavings"... I am assuming the grease came from lubricating the shaft and base of the slave cylinder... is that a correct assumption, would that be one of the places that needs to be greased? Are there other places (besides spleens and clutch disk that you've already mentioned).

I've never done a clutch job so want to do everything once and do it right