Viper only go up in value

[Lawineer]

people said that about horsepower in 1972.... and now we have the best cars ever.. someone will still make cool stuff. with the EUs blessing or not.. The real question I think will be at what cost.

I have zero doubt electric cars will, by 2035, be way cooler than they are now, with a lot of the drawbacks sorted out. I'm not arguing there won't be cool cars (at least, not for lack of ability. If they start going autonomous....). I'm saying there will be less and less cool dinosaur burners coming off the assembly line, year after year. But 2035, there will be almost zero.
There certainly won't be any in your face V10s dumping into side pipes in front 355 rear tires with 3 pedals.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were no pedals in a lot of cars by then.

The world in general will look very different in 12.5 years. Probably as different as 1998 looks to today, maybe more different. It doesn't seem that different, but it was an age without cell phones (or very few, and they just made calls) where beepers and pay phones were still prevalent. Music was carrier around in binders full of CDs- mp3 format was just invented and MTV played music. AOL was buying Netscape, all being on run on snazzy new Windows 98 with Y2k bug chatter picking up. In the automotive world, minivans still dominated SUVs in suburbia. The 345hp LS1 Corvette running low 13s and hitting 175mph stock (4spd auto option) just made headlines. Gas hovered around 60 cents a gallon and you could get an extra value meal (big mac, fries, drink) for under $5. That sounds like prices from grandpa's "I used to buy dinner for a nickel" archives.

[ViperGeorge]

I have zero doubt electric cars will, by 2035, be way cooler than they are now, with a lot of the drawbacks sorted out. I'm not arguing there won't be cool cars (at least, not for lack of ability. If they start going autonomous....). I'm saying there will be less and less cool dinosaur burners coming off the assembly line, year after year. But 2035, there will be almost zero.
There certainly won't be any in your face V10s dumping into side pipes in front 355 rear tires with 3 pedals.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were no pedals in a lot of cars by then.

The world in general will look very different in 12.5 years. Probably as different as 1998 looks to today, maybe more different. It doesn't seem that different, but it was an age without cell phones (or very few, and they just made calls) where beepers and pay phones were still prevalent. Music was carrier around in binders full of CDs- mp3 format was just invented and MTV played music. AOL was buying Netscape, all being on run on snazzy new Windows 98 with Y2k bug chatter picking up. In the automotive world, minivans still dominated SUVs in suburbia. The 345hp LS1 Corvette running low 13s and hitting 175mph stock (4spd auto option) just made headlines. Gas hovered around 60 cents a gallon and you could get an extra value meal (big mac, fries, drink) for under $5. That sounds like prices from grandpa's "I used to buy dinner for a nickel" archives.

You may be correct but where will all the electricity come from? I don't believe we have enough generation capacity to charge a national fleet of EVs.

[Lawineer]

You may be correct but where will all the electricity come from? I don't believe we have enough generation capacity to charge a national fleet of EVs.

I'm more concerned about lithium ion supply and the grid.

We're going to forced into what was the best answer all along- nuclear power.

[ViperGeorge]

I'm more concerned about lithium ion supply and the grid.

We're going to forced into what was the best answer all along- nuclear power.

Probably true but then it would take more than 10 years to build one nuclear plant assuming it even were to get through the EPA and all the lawsuits that would try to stop it.

[Arizona Vipers]

Less than 1% of the 250 million cars in the USA are electric right now. So about 2 million electric cars. What happens when there's 100 million soon? There's already rolling blackouts in Cali and Texas

[Sniper]

Exactly! What’s the hidden agenda with this fervor for going electric?

[Pappy]

Less than 1% of the 250 million cars in the USA are electric right now. So about 2 million electric cars. What happens when there's 100 million soon? There's already rolling blackouts in Cali and Texas

We produce 4.12 trillion KWH of electricity annually in the country today. It is estimated that we operate 2.74 million cars. If you drive 15,000 miles per year with a consumption rate of .3 KWH per mile, then each car will use about 5000 KWH per year. Doing the math, that is a requirement of 1.37 trillion KWH per year to operate all of those cars - a 33% increase in electric energy requirements. (Currently 61% of our electricity is generated by fossil fuel sources.) That doesn't even take into account efficiency of the heavy haulers (trucks) that still aren't viable, or the massive grid infrastructure upgrade required. Looks like a square corner to me.

[Gen5snake]

Exactly! What’s the hidden agenda with this fervor for going electric?

The sinister part of me thinks it will be easier to control people. And for all the Bitcoin lovers out there, cut the electricity, shut down Bitcoin and you can totally cripple your adversaries. Ask Donny baby about his freedom of speech. They shut him down over night...totally cut him off. EV's and Bitcoin will be no different. If they don't like what you say, you don't use the proper pronoun or don't like your politics....easy peasy to destroy someone only having to flip two switches. If you behave and conform, we'll let you survive.

There's nothing better than to have your whole country dependent on only one energy source. China/Russia/Iran would love it. Easy to hack into the power grids.

Electric motors byproduct is ozone....where's the impact analysis on that? That will certainly alter our atmosphere. The byproduct of solar panels is a massive amount of heat (global warming?)...all good there. the surface thinkers are going to raise these issues as our next crisis after they go full bore with EV's/solar. The ignorance is baffling. Where is all the outrage about destroying our planet strip mining the shit out of the land? Crickets... Where is the outrage about China owning most of the rights to the lithium mines....crickets...

Show me one detailed end to end analysis about how exactly EV's are going to save our planet...and show how much better they are over ICE's. I want details.

[viperman4125]

The sinister part of me thinks it will be easier to control people. And for all the Bitcoin lovers out there, cut the electricity, shut down Bitcoin and you can totally cripple your adversaries. Ask Donny baby about his freedom of speech. They shut him down over night...totally cut him off. EV's and Bitcoin will be no different. If they don't like what you say, you don't use the proper pronoun or don't like your politics....easy peasy to destroy someone only having to flip two switches. If you behave and conform, we'll let you survive.

There's nothing better than to have your whole country dependent on only one energy source. China/Russia/Iran would love it. Easy to hack into the power grids.

Electric motors byproduct is ozone....where's the impact analysis on that? That will certainly alter our atmosphere. The byproduct of solar panels is a massive amount of heat (global warming?)...all good there. the surface thinkers are going to raise these issues as our next crisis after they go full bore with EV's/solar. The ignorance is baffling. Where is all the outrage about destroying our planet strip mining the shit out of the land? Crickets... Where is the outrage about China owning most of the rights to the lithium mines....crickets...

Show me one detailed end to end analysis about how exactly EV's are going to save our planet...and show how much better they are over ICE's. I want details.

I agree!!
BTW there is going to be a "SRT " again, coming out with a E-Mussel Car over 1000hp to the wheels soon! Not for me.

[buy_usa]

Here's the ERCOT (TX grid) for June 30th. The key with EVs is to plug them in at night. Just for fun, I did a what-if back of the envelope calculation....
Untitled.jpg
This shows at night, TX is down to ~43,000MW compare to ~75,000MW at the daily peak - that's 42% spare capacity (32,000MW) to charge things like batteries and cars. The utility companies would love to run flat out and all sources except solar can participate.

There are 22 million registered vehicles in TX. Lets assume all of them are magically converted to EVs and consume 0.3kWh per mile (Tesla average) and all drive 30 miles per day (probably pessimisitc). That is 9kWh per day, per car. If the average EV battery holds 85kWh, you need to recharge each car about every 10 days on average. So we need to change 22 million cars / 10 days = 2.2 million cars every night to 'full'. That is 2.2M * 85kWh / 8 hours each night = 23,375 MW. That's assuming perfect charging efficiency (reality is close to 90%). So there is capacity there to get close.

Although I love my ICE vehicles, I think EVs have the advantage of a variety of 'fuel' sources in which to get the electricity (ie nat gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind - all which the USA can make). The Li-Ion battery sourcing concern (ie from China) will be alleviated in the coming years with solid-state batteries. Plus USA imports quite a bit of oil (5-10mbd) from non-friendly countries already, why is the Li-Ion materials to make the batteries any different? We are already feeling the impact from Russian oil sanctions even though we don't import any oil from Russia directly - its a global market.

[Aevus]

Exactly! What’s the hidden agenda with this fervor for going electric?

mass hysteria, driven by social medias

[Aevus]

Here's the ERCOT (TX grid) for June 30th. The key with EVs is to plug them in at night. Just for fun, I did a what-if back of the envelope calculation....
Untitled.jpg
This shows at night, TX is down to ~43,000MW compare to ~75,000MW at the daily peak - that's 42% spare capacity (32,000MW) to charge things like batteries and cars. The utility companies would love to run flat out and all sources except solar can participate.

There are 22 million registered vehicles in TX. Lets assume all of them are magically converted to EVs and consume 0.3kWh per mile (Tesla average) and all drive 30 miles per day (probably pessimisitc). That is 9kWh per day, per car. If the average EV battery holds 85kWh, you need to recharge each car about every 10 days on average. So we need to change 22 million cars / 10 days = 2.2 million cars every night to 'full'. That is 2.2M * 85kWh / 8 hours each night = 23,375 MW. That's assuming perfect charging efficiency (reality is close to 90%). So there is capacity there to get close.

Although I love my ICE vehicles, I think EVs have the advantage of a variety of 'fuel' sources in which to get the electricity (ie nat gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind - all which the USA can make). The Li-Ion battery sourcing concern (ie from China) will be alleviated in the coming years with solid-state batteries. Plus USA imports quite a bit of oil (5-10mbd) from non-friendly countries already, why is the Li-Ion materials to make the batteries any different? We are already feeling the impact from Russian oil sanctions even though we don't import any oil from Russia directly - its a global market.

30 miles per day?

Not in the US.

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...l=1#post459888

[Aevus]

''Viper only go up in value''

Frankly speaking, guys?

Say, in 10 or 20 years from now. Whatever it is. EV is the new king. Probably less than 10% of gas station alive. No more parts available, or very few. Even less mechanics. Tons of taxes and restrictions on ICE. Costly ''vintage permits'' or similar taxes...

Is our Vipers will ''go up in value'' still? Doubtful. Very doubtful.

In fact, other than very few museum quality 8-miles garage queens, all these old muscle/super cars may be very well totally unattractive for our grand children...

[Lawineer]

''Viper only go up in value''

Frankly speaking, guys?

Say, in 10 or 20 years from now. Whatever it is. EV is the new king. Probably less than 10% of gas station alive. No more parts available, or very few. Even less mechanics. Tons of taxes and restrictions on ICE. Costly ''vintage permits'' or similar taxes...

Is our Vipers will ''go up in value'' still? Doubtful. Very doubtful.

In fact, other than very few museum quality 8-miles garage queens, all these old muscle/super cars may be very well totally unattractive for our grand children...

I think your timetable is a big aggressive but
1) who know what 20 years from now will look like lol
2) there are plenty of cars I want more than 30 years old, and there isn’t a single one of them that I want for their superior performance. Nothing classic and collectible is for its intrinsic value. Not baseball cards, not cars, not watches, not guns, not art.
The Mona Lisa didn’t lose any value because of digital printing

[StrokerAce]

The Mona Lisa is one of the biggest let downs I've ever encountered. Haha

[Gen5snake]

We're going to forced into what was the best answer all along- nuclear power.

I don't think that's going to happen. Everyone is shutting them down.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_phase-out

[13COBRA]

Here's the ERCOT (TX grid) for June 30th. The key with EVs is to plug them in at night. Just for fun, I did a what-if back of the envelope calculation....
Untitled.jpg
This shows at night, TX is down to ~43,000MW compare to ~75,000MW at the daily peak - that's 42% spare capacity (32,000MW) to charge things like batteries and cars. The utility companies would love to run flat out and all sources except solar can participate.

There are 22 million registered vehicles in TX. Lets assume all of them are magically converted to EVs and consume 0.3kWh per mile (Tesla average) and all drive 30 miles per day (probably pessimisitc). That is 9kWh per day, per car. If the average EV battery holds 85kWh, you need to recharge each car about every 10 days on average. So we need to change 22 million cars / 10 days = 2.2 million cars every night to 'full'. That is 2.2M * 85kWh / 8 hours each night = 23,375 MW. That's assuming perfect charging efficiency (reality is close to 90%). So there is capacity there to get close.

Although I love my ICE vehicles, I think EVs have the advantage of a variety of 'fuel' sources in which to get the electricity (ie nat gas, coal, nuke, solar, wind - all which the USA can make). The Li-Ion battery sourcing concern (ie from China) will be alleviated in the coming years with solid-state batteries. Plus USA imports quite a bit of oil (5-10mbd) from non-friendly countries already, why is the Li-Ion materials to make the batteries any different? We are already feeling the impact from Russian oil sanctions even though we don't import any oil from Russia directly - its a global market.

The USA exports more oil than we import.

[Voice of Reason]

Some of you sound like horse breeders in 1900.

“Gas engines!?!? What are you going to do when you run out of gas making your trek west? Why you’ll shoot the thing in anger when it abandons you on the trail. They’ll never build enough gas stations to make it anywhere, you wait and see. When you get stranded you’ll hitch a ride on a horse in the next town you have to walk to that’s what! My horses eat off the land, you’ll never have to worry about running out of grass when you’re on your way to see your sweet lass. Never get stranded! Ride a horse!”

[Viperenvy]

Comment are interesting as well...

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...emand-problem/

[Patentlaw]

13Cobra - You are exactly right. While you don't live in Texas, what is going on is frankly scary. Not getting political, but our stupid Gov is inviting more and more crypto into the state......they use the spare electricity.....and the rates have gone through the roof. The crypto brings no wealth to the state. Power companies are maxed out and there is little to no new baseload generation planned.

As far as nuclear, I helped run the second largest nuclear facility in the Western Hemisphere. The technology is good...BUT......the people who run the plants are the problem. They cut safety corners all the time. Those on the inside know. It is alarming.

My house suffered about 30k of damage from the power outage. This stuff is real.....it is bad....and the only way around it is to get an off the grid system. People are rushing to them with average bills being 800 to 1000 a month now WITHOUT electric cars. Payback periods for installation such as these are falling very quickly.

[Gen5snake]

Not getting political, but our stupid Gov is inviting more and more crypto into the state......they use the spare electricity.....and the rates have gone through the roof. The crypto brings no wealth to the state. Power companies are maxed out and there is little to no new baseload generation planned.

Spot on....and other tech industries too...and the type of voter those companies bring in isn't going to be good for Texas in the long run. I love how you see people bailing out of CA because the state is in peril. The ridiculous part of that is these people will vote the same exact way they did when they lived in CA. They have an issue connecting the dots. Orange man bad! Mean tweets!

[Lawineer]

Some of you sound like horse breeders in 1900.

“Gas engines!?!? What are you going to do when you run out of gas making your trek west? Why you’ll shoot the thing in anger when it abandons you on the trail. They’ll never build enough gas stations to make it anywhere, you wait and see. When you get stranded you’ll hitch a ride on a horse in the next town you have to walk to that’s what! My horses eat off the land, you’ll never have to worry about running out of grass when you’re on your way to see your sweet lass. Never get stranded! Ride a horse!”

Electric is 100% the future of transportation. Just like fuel injection surpassed the carburetor.

That is different than collectible/nostalgia value

[StrokerAce]

Electric is 100% the future of transportation. Just like fuel injection surpassed the carburetor.

That is different than collectible/nostalgia value

Agreed. I bet some haven't yet abandoned the missionary position.

[Gen5snake]

Electric is 100% the future of transportation.

sheep-jump-from-cliff.jpg


Whoops a daisy


https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1542857210119815169?s=20&t=ajujwc9t2GsTKeaRlXpw4Q

[Mikey]

Go drive a taycan and you'll have a different tune on electric cars. Phenomenal vehicle