Viper only go up in value

[Lawineer]

Huh? Charging a battery twice a day versus once a day doesn't use more energy? You buy a new phone and you initially can get three days out of a full charge....6 months later, you're charging it twice a day. That's not using more energy? Electric fantasy, rainbow, unicorns, net zero, carbon neutral la la land. I know I'm being a little prickly, but c'mon man... Joey baby.




More clueless fantasy: Let's be 100% dependent on a single energy source. That's brilliant. Run everything on electricity....so one of our adversaries can disable/hack into our power grid and bring the entire country to its knees. Am I being dramatic? Sure....but not really. But again...what about ozone?

Climate change is a bunch of nonsense. Any mathematician will know there is simply not enough data to extrapolate an accurate trajectory of temperature/climate change. They started calling it "global warming", then they changed it to "climate change"....because you can measure warming, but impossible to quantify change. I'm over 50 and I haven't witnessed anything different. I grew up on shoreline and all the landmarks at the shore are exactly the same. Weather is cyclical. Bottom line. They are extrapolating off of a 100 or 50 years worth of data...they need to get into the millions of years to get anywhere close to predicting with accuracy.

The scientists say....We follow the science....who the hell are these people? Just like if you're fully vaccinated, everything will be okay. We will achieve herd immunity. Ha ha. Chronic state of emergency....make hasty decisions....you don't know if you're coming or going. Covid, Climate change....Climate change Covid....Covid....new variant....Climate emergency. Laughable.

If your gas tank size gets cut in half, and you have to get gas twice as often, does that mean your engine is using twice as much gas? lol, I mean, I dont know how else I could possibly make it simpler or clearer.

Kind of wild how you're so adamant the whole scientific community is a farce, but you can't understand the difference between capacity and consumption.

Your position against electric cars is more based on political tribalism than actual basic understanding of them, and that's clear from how you completely randomly and unnecessarily brought in covid to a discussion about lithium ion batteries.

[Blue09]

emissions

To focus only on gasoline emissions, for comparison, annually, worldwide, forest fires produce/release 540 times the amount of CO2 that is released by burning 1.5T gallons of gasoline (which is equivalent to 95m barrels per day worldwide consumption) (actually 1.45635T gallons)

That means, all the CO2 released by burning all that gasoline is much to do about literally nothing as its equates to less than 0.2% (.00185) of combined CO2 release of all annual forest fires and gasoline consumption

so, if you completely remove 0.2% CO2 volume produced by gasoline, what have you accomplished?

absolutely nothing in terms of global CO2 (yes, there is more CO2 released by burning coal and natural gas, but, it does not meaningfully add to CO2 volume released)

however, there would be a huge impact on humankind, without gasoline or any petroleum production all (vast amounts also used for plastics, medicines, clothing, 1000s of different products, etc)

it would result in a substantial loss of so much

just say "no" to the "CO2 brainwashing", do your own calculations (I can provide all the inputs if you need for my summary above), and will quickly discover that "human release of CO2 via gasoline usage" is of absolutely no impact to the atmosphere, absolutely no impact at all

[Mikey]

With thus new variant, you guys think we'll have an issue with chips again?

[Jack B]

????????????????????

Please give us a verifiable basis for the transport efficiency of electricity. Utility losses are minimal.They are primarily transformer losses and line losses. The transformer losses are under 1% and the transmission/distribution lines are under 5%. In addition, with the temperature range encountered, the changes in resistivity is minimal, therefore, the increase in losses are extremely small due to temperature changes??

If something is missing, let us know.

Fun thread.

Another consideration for the power grid: (in regards to the efficiency of delivering the "consumable energy" to the target [car battery v.s. gas tank])
The matter of Temperature also impacts the transport efficiency and delivery of electricity. (i.e. over the power lines).

Under the best conditions, the transport efficiency of electricity is ~75% (+/-) ..fingers crossed there will be improvements to the grid that will make it better.
During summer months and/or in hotter climates, the transport efficiency of electricity can be reduced by as much as ~40%.
??????????????????


The transport efficiency of electricity to charge electric cars can be "seasonal" depending on your location.

On the other hand, the transport efficiency of pump gas is ~90% and is not affected by temperature or seasonal factors.

[Lawineer]

With thus new variant, you guys think we'll have an issue with chips again?

Yeah, guess I'll go buy a carbureted CTS-V instead.

[charlie9668]

I rented a tesla in Sweden on a business trip, the 300 mile range lasted less than half of what it had stated. That then proved to me that they were useless.

The only fuel that could have the chance to replace gas is hydrogen through clever means such as what Steve Mayer accomplished.

Electric cars, climate change, covid ect all fall under the same category: Propaganda

[Old School]

It's been a long time since this thread had any posts having to do with the original topic....

[Voice of Reason]

As performance enthusiasts it makes me sad we’re so resistant to EVs. Tesla has proven without a doubt that EVs out perform ICE vehicles in every way except endurance road racing (overheating) and quick refills. Once those are solved, and it’s just a matter of if not when it will happen, there’s no reason to not evolve. Yeah Tesla’s exterior and interior have the soul of a washing machine, but can you imagine all that EV tech with a Viper wrapper on it? I can and it’s beautiful.

[Pappy]

As performance enthusiasts it makes me sad we’re so resistant to EVs. Tesla has proven without a doubt that EVs out perform ICE vehicles in every way except endurance road racing (overheating) and quick refills. Once those are solved, and it’s just a matter of if not when it will happen, there’s no reason to not evolve. Yeah Tesla’s exterior and interior have the soul of a washing machine, but can you imagine all that EV tech with a Viper wrapper on it? I can and it’s beautiful.

Show me the lap times. The 1000 hp Tesla Plaid managed a 7:30 at Nürburgring (the one that didn't crash). Yes, it was a track record - for EVs. Watch the video and listen to the crying tires. They need to start with a race car chassis and add an electric motor (or 2, or 3). Not seeing the proof that a Tesla outperforms ICEs in every way.

[efnfast]

As performance enthusiasts it makes me sad we’re so resistant to EVs. Tesla has proven without a doubt that EVs out perform ICE vehicles in every way except endurance road racing (overheating) and quick refills. Once those are solved, and it’s just a matter of if not when it will happen, there’s no reason to not evolve. Yeah Tesla’s exterior and interior have the soul of a washing machine, but can you imagine all that EV tech with a Viper wrapper on it? I can and it’s beautiful.

That would be horrible ... kill it with fire.

EVs are souless washing machines ... no V8/V10/V12 exhaust bark mated to a 5/6 speed manual no care.

[Lawineer]

Show me the lap times. The 1000 hp Tesla Plaid managed a 7:30 at Nürburgring (the one that didn't crash). Yes, it was a track record - for EVs. Watch the video and listen to the crying tires. They need to start with a race car chassis and add an electric motor (or 2, or 3). Not seeing the proof that a Tesla outperforms ICEs in every way.

7:30 (7:35 actually) is blazing fast for a 4 door grocery getter on true street tires (PS4 from what I'm reading??). It, by my googling, is the third fastest production sedan ever around the ring behind the AMG GT 63S and Alpha Romeo Guila Quadrofoglio. Both of those cars are more or less designed for the ring, have really good aero, sport tuned, suspension, etc. The Plaid doesn't even have a gearbox, lol.

Put it in perspective: it beat the M5 CS on it's own home turf.

That's really shockingly impressive for a mom-mobile.

[Pappy]

7:30 (7:35 actually) is blazing fast for a 4 door grocery getter on true street tires (PS4 from what I'm reading??). It, by my googling, is the third fastest production sedan ever around the ring behind the AMG GT 63S and Alpha Romeo Guila Quadrofoglio. Both of those cars are more or less designed for the ring, have really good aero, sport tuned, suspension, etc. The Plaid doesn't even have a gearbox, lol.

Put it in perspective: it beat the M5 CS on it's own home turf.

That's really shockingly impressive for a mom-mobile.

Let's put things in perspective. Wonder what a 1000 hp ICE would do at the Ring in a four door sedan?

[Voice of Reason]

Let's put things in perspective. Wonder what a 1000 hp ICE would do at the Ring in a four door sedan?

1000 hp ICE don’t exist in the real world any more (fun fact they never did either in any factory form ever). But stupidly powerful EVs are about to be everywhere. Remember the carb guys who complained they didn’t know how to set the distributor points on their too electronic for their own good fuel injected engines? Grab your favorite folding chair, you’re about to be sitting next to them in a car show parking lot.

[viperBase1]

In a 1/2 mile roll race, our Vipers will smoke any Tesla (except maybe the Plaid).
For all the other Tesla's the 60 -130mph times are not too good. N' then they have to contend with stopping 6000+ lbs.

A Tesla guy at the GearHeads garage where I work on all my cars, was trying to prove the Tesla's ability on the road course (with these things called turns and twisties) and all he did was rip up tires, suspension bits and brakes.
He finally gave it up. Said so himself "the car is only good for a launch and going straight for a short bit, then you gotta try and stop the damn thing".

Other sports based EV's will fix all of that over time. Like maybe the Lotus Evija EV.
evija1.jpg

[StrokerAce]

Having been in the Plaid it is an experience to be had. I went from that to my Viper and it was like someone took half my spark plug wires off. lol

It would be no faster turned into a 2 door so the fact it has 4 doors is irrelevant. It is quick on the ring but it isn't going to be setting any track times anytime soon. Will they make one that does? Perhaps. I hope so.

[Pappy]

1000 hp ICE don’t exist in the real world any more (fun fact they never did either in any factory form ever). But stupidly powerful EVs are about to be everywhere. Remember the carb guys who complained they didn’t know how to set the distributor points on their too electronic for their own good fuel injected engines? Grab your favorite folding chair, you’re about to be sitting next to them in a car show parking lot.

Hmmmm. GM's new NA ZZ632, factory, over-the-counter, pump gas motor makes 1004 HP/876 ft/lbs torque. The factory stock 2022 Bugatti Chiron Super Sport 300 makes 1577 HP/1180'/#. Never say never.

[Lawineer]

Let's put things in perspective. Wonder what a 1000 hp ICE would do at the Ring in a four door sedan?

IDK? Overheat?
Lmk when you can get a factory 1000hp vehicle that is a very practical grocery getter with true production car reliability for anything near $140k

In a 1/2 mile roll race, our Vipers will smoke any Tesla (except maybe the Plaid).
For all the other Tesla's the 60 -130mph times are not too good. N' then they have to contend with stopping 6000+ lbs.

A Tesla guy at the GearHeads garage where I work on all my cars, was trying to prove the Tesla's ability on the road course (with these things called turns and twisties) and all he did was rip up tires, suspension bits and brakes.
He finally gave it up. Said so himself "the car is only good for a launch and going straight for a short bit, then you gotta try and stop the damn thing".

Other sports based EV's will fix all of that over time. Like maybe the Lotus Evija EV.
evija1.jpg

For people who want an endurance road race car, this ain’t it. The other 99.999% of car buyers, including almost every sports car buyer, it’s pretty neat.

Hmmmm. GM's new NA ZZ632, factory, over-the-counter, pump gas motor makes 1004 HP/876 ft/lbs torque. The factory stock 2022 Bugatti Chiron Super Sport 300 makes 1577 HP/1180'/#. Never say never.

One is a 7 figure car. The other isn’t anything near what you could put in even a low production sports car. What else makes 1000hp factory without electric motors? S7TT comp?

I can’t wait till I can get an 800hp electric suv for under $80k or so. Would be a great daily.

[Scott_in_fl]

Electric cars already make amazing DD's. The S, the Plaid, Rivians, Taycan, etc. -- all are supposedly game-changing awesome (I've driven an S, but not the others).

Are they fun to accelerate at neck breaking pace? Sure. Will they still get even faster and better over the coming years? Yes.

But they cannot repeatedly stop all of that inertia, and thus they suck on any closed circuit road course... for now.

Once the MFG's can get the regen braking seamlessly tied into a physical brake pedal, there may not even be a need for rotors/calipers, and thus the ability to repeatedly stop without frying physical brake pads may become a reality. For now, it is a massive limitation.

As for weight, all of it is very low in the chassis, so that could actually assist with grip/roadholding if tire technology can get there. I seem to recall the original Tron movie and other similar futuristic sci-fi movies showing wild cars with massive rubber tires that take up the entire width of the car in the rear. With no transmission tunnel needed any longer, and no drive shafts or dog bones, we may see 500, 600, 700 width rear tires on electric supercars. The amount of traction would be obscene and, at that point, the limitation may be the ability of the human body to endure the G-forces that it could generate. But then I suppose they could program the computer to soften the delivery of those forces.

Anyway, exciting times for sure and I'd gladly take an e-DD today as long as the ACR is in the garage for the weekends.

[Lawineer]

Electric cars already make amazing DD's. The S, the Plaid, Rivians, Taycan, etc. -- all are supposedly game-changing awesome (I've driven an S, but not the others).

Are they fun to accelerate at neck breaking pace? Sure. Will they still get even faster and better over the coming years? Yes.

But they cannot repeatedly stop all of that inertia, and thus they suck on any closed circuit road course... for now.

Once the MFG's can get the regen braking seamlessly tied into a physical brake pedal, there may not even be a need for rotors/calipers, and thus the ability to repeatedly stop without frying physical brake pads may become a reality. For now, it is a massive limitation.

As for weight, all of it is very low in the chassis, so that could actually assist with grip/roadholding if tire technology can get there. I seem to recall the original Tron movie and other similar futuristic sci-fi movies showing wild cars with massive rubber tires that take up the entire width of the car in the rear. With no transmission tunnel needed any longer, and no drive shafts or dog bones, we may see 500, 600, 700 width rear tires on electric supercars. The amount of traction would be obscene and, at that point, the limitation may be the ability of the human body to endure the G-forces that it could generate. But then I suppose they could program the computer to soften the delivery of those forces.

Anyway, exciting times for sure and I'd gladly take an e-DD today as long as the ACR is in the garage for the weekends.

Let's not forget about the huge advantage of digitally controlling torque to each wheel from -100 +100 percent in the blink of an eye. How much that's going to help with rotating the car in turns and putting power down is going to be amazing. Plus rain/snow traction and stability control.

[Scott_in_fl]

Let's not forget about the huge advantage of digitally controlling torque to each wheel from -100 +100 percent in the blink of an eye. How much that's going to help with rotating the car in turns and putting power down is going to be amazing. Plus rain/snow traction and stability control.

Excellent point. Going to be fun, indeed.

So fun, that this thread convinced me to put down the $1k deposit on a Rivian R1S. Spec'ed it out already, comes to $79k. Looks like a 2 year wait, but I suppose you gotta' get in line at some point (which I feel is the way it is now with buying cars -- you need to look out at least 6 mos. and order everything early -- the more desirable, the earlier you need to order -- I'm very early on a Lucid Air and Z06 deposits, but I think I may be liking this Rivian a bit more).

Web capture_30-11-2021_95952_rivian.com.jpg

[Lawineer]

I refuse to pay $100k for something that ugly.
Also, no big hp numbers, no care.

[Voice of Reason]

Rivian’s style is growing on my for a DD, and their interior beats Tesla by a long shot. An added benefit is they’re built 25 miles from me so service in my area should be top notch.

[Scott_in_fl]

I watched the Doug DeMuro review and was sold. In all seriousness, I've now seen several reviews of the Rivian and they are unanimously surprising in that every single one ends up with "this is a game changer", or "I really want this truck", or "this is quite possibly the best vehicle I've ever tested". Pretty impressive for the price. I can easily see the price moving up on these very quickly and thus am happy to put down the $1k to lock that in today.

[bullitt2735]

I can’t wait till I can get an 800hp electric suv for under $80k or so. Would be a great daily.

speaking of 800hp electric suv, hopefully going to order the new Rivian R1s as daily for the wife/ occasional viper tow rig.

[TrackAire]

I watched the Doug DeMuro review and was sold. In all seriousness, I've now seen several reviews of the Rivian and they are unanimously surprising in that every single one ends up with "this is a game changer", or "I really want this truck", or "this is quite possibly the best vehicle I've ever tested". Pretty impressive for the price. I can easily see the price moving up on these very quickly and thus am happy to put down the $1k to lock that in today.

So I've started dealing with popular vehicle youtubers for my works marketing....If they have more than 300k subscribers, no review is free. There is a cost.....trust me.

When Rivian takes a bunch of these social media and press people out, the accommodations, meals and drinks are VERY nice. You also want to be on the good side of the manufacturer so you get invited back and wined and dined again for the next "big thing". If you don't get invited back, your youtube, instagram, etc loses out on content which in turn costs you money but your youtube competition is there getting content.

Larger youtube channels just plain make you pay to play. To have them "review" a product for one video can be over $10k. Granted some of their channels are are near 1 million subs so "hopefully" the review pays out.

I'm sure the Rivian is going to be a good vehicle, but until it goes into real production who really knows how good it will be.