A C Condenser alternative part

[Lunchbox]

In my journey to replace lifters and pulling the heads, I've also started down the path of replacing and inspecting just about everything in the front end of the car (ps pump system, cooling system, bushings, A/C system, ect..). I've never really had good A/C or even great working A/C with my viper since I bought it, but always told myself I'd pull it apart and replace the seals and check for leaks if whenever I had to get in there for something else major.

So during this process mentioned above, I pulled out the condenser and found that after years of leaves from previous owners collecting in the front bumper inlet and sitting at the bottom near the oil cooler and between that and the condenser that the condenser had started corroding and leaked ultimately. Many of the fins are bent and paint is cracking and coming off leaving exposed aluminum which has corrosion in many spots all over the unit. It looks like if i repaired it, i'd just play wack-a-mole fixing more and more pinholes as they sprung up.

The cost for N.O.S A/C Condensers if you're able to find them seems to be about $750, which I think is a bit high, considering condensers are really considered a throw-away part these days because its easier and cheaper to buy a new one than clean / repair one normally.

I managed to find this just surfing ebay this morning for some sort of one off made or small run of replacements some how and got lucky!! Now yes, they're cheaper but still $400. You can get two of these for the price of one OEM N.O.S item it seems roughly.

One thing i noticed right away was that the design is a bit different using larger tubes it looks like as opposed to the flat tube that snakes back and fourth on the OEM unit. Keep in mind i'm comparing this to a 2001 OEM condenser. I'm not sure if there were previous revisions with earlier GEN2 or GEN1 Vipers. Also, I'm not quite sure if the larger looking tubes on this unit will help or hurt performance here. The price-tag isn't terrible and if its a solid durable replacement that has no ill-effects or causes issues, it might be a great replacement!

Just wanted to pass this along so other viper owners could snag one if needed.

[dave6666]

Screenshot_2021-08-18-09-46-25.jpg

Screenshot_2021-08-18-09-46-50.jpg

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I hope you get a functioning, fittable unit, but for now VAPOR-WARE vs Viper-ware

[Lunchbox]

Yeah i wasn't able to find it on the website myself, but apparently they are the ones that make it. Might be worth a call. I'll post up pictures when it arrives.

[Lunchbox]

I hope you get a functioning, fittable unit, but for now VAPOR-WARE vs Viper-ware

Thanks! You're absolutely right on that without a doubt.

Just FYI I wasn't attempting to cut into anyone's business here, but simply figured owners should know a few exist since parts are scarce anyway. Every bit helps.

[dave6666]

a few exist

Trying to follow your post. So the company you posted the link to has these parts in stock? The same company that via their web site does not even recoginize the exsistance of the Viper? Or do they just make them and some other unnamed supplier has them?

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Thanks! You're absolutely right on that without a doubt.

Just FYI I wasn't attempting to cut into anyone's business here, but simply figured owners should know a few exist since parts are scarce anyway. Every bit helps.

I hope you have success! How does it feel to be a TEST MULE ?

[71firebird400]

Bunch of optimists in here. Hope the condenser arrives and works great!

[GTS Dean]

I've mentioned it before, but it's getting closer to time for this community to contact Vintage Air to inquire about tooling up for a run of Gen 1-2 components. Condensers appear to be one of the most often sought after parts.

[Lunchbox]

Trying to follow your post. So the company you posted the link to has these parts in stock? The same company that via their web site does not even recoginize the exsistance of the Viper? Or do they just make them and some other unnamed supplier has them?

Well, i thought so. I guess maybe thats my mistake. I just edited my first post and removed the link to the website.

In regards to the company though, I'd just contact them on eBay. It looks like as of writing this post there are 3 left currently. I can't imagine if they had 5 total that they don't have the means to make more of them. Very possible they are dipping their
toes into the water to see if anyone will buy them so they can justify making more?!

Once it arrives i'll post up pictures and any further information i have on it.

[98RedGTS]

I've mentioned it before, but it's getting closer to time for this community to contact Vintage Air to inquire about tooling up for a run of Gen 1-2 components. Condensers appear to be one of the most often sought after parts.

I'm sure Jon B will advise but I thought (at least according to his website) that Mopar was tooling up to do a batch of these. Shows this - "OE Manufacturer is building 50 units, due Mid August 2020." but with everything else 2020 I'm going to assume it's running way behind schedule if not canceled.

[dave6666]

...

No worries maybe I missed the ebay tie in.

[Lunchbox]

OK, so condenser arrived.

It seems fairly well built and its fairly solid. I will say that the pegs for the rubber isolators are slightly off position wise but not enough to make this item not able to be installed or compromise it really. Overall quality seems pretty decent for a replacement. Id say for the $400 price tag it was listed at its worth it so far just from the initial impression of the unit, plus its made in the USA! When looking at the front of the car at the condenser, passenger connection worked like a charm, the drivers side however required a little tweaking of the stock A/C line. I feel like the aluminum connection block on the condenser could have been down about another inch probably. Also makes me think this condenser was mocked up or built on a viper that was non-ABS because i had to move the drivers side ac line bracket/clamp from under the frame rail area to the inside of the frame rail near the steering rack area so i could get the ac line in a better position for the inlet on the condenser. No big deal really since it was all accessible as i have the car torn apart anyway.

Id say this probably fits on a non abs car without issues a little bit better though based on dealing with tweaking the ac line so that it wasnt rubbing against the brake lines going to the stock abs unit. Overall worked out well though and fits nicely now. Assuming all is well and it doesn't leak like a screen door on a submarine, would buy again!

https://ibb.co/x6N9jgM
https://ibb.co/LCVns3Q
https://ibb.co/zskP8Pd
https://ibb.co/pWtgJNX
https://ibb.co/GJMpWhj
https://ibb.co/njp9gvJ
https://ibb.co/KLYWJrq

[71firebird400]

Thanks for the follow up post. Looks like a good option and nice to see someone tooled up to make it.

[98RedGTS]

OK, so condenser arrived.

It seems fairly well built and its fairly solid. I will say that the pegs for the rubber isolators are slightly off position wise but not enough to make this item not able to be installed or compromise it really. Overall quality seems pretty decent for a replacement. Id say for the $400 price tag it was listed at its worth it so far just from the initial impression of the unit, plus its made in the USA! When looking at the front of the car at the condenser, passenger connection worked like a charm, the drivers side however required a little tweaking of the stock A/C line. I feel like the aluminum connection block on the condenser could have been down about another inch probably. Also makes me think this condenser was mocked up or built on a viper that was non-ABS because i had to move the drivers side ac line bracket/clamp from under the frame rail area to the inside of the frame rail near the steering rack area so i could get the ac line in a better position for the inlet on the condenser. No big deal really since it was all accessible as i have the car torn apart anyway.

Id say this probably fits on a non abs car without issues a little bit better though based on dealing with tweaking the ac line so that it wasnt rubbing against the brake lines going to the stock abs unit. Overall worked out well though and fits nicely now. Assuming all is well and it doesn't leak like a screen door on a submarine, would buy again!

https://ibb.co/x6N9jgM
https://ibb.co/LCVns3Q
https://ibb.co/zskP8Pd
https://ibb.co/pWtgJNX
https://ibb.co/GJMpWhj
https://ibb.co/njp9gvJ
https://ibb.co/KLYWJrq

Looks like a nice piece and if it fits that's even better. I believe you are fairly local to me (I live in Leander TX). If so, and you don't already have the tools to pull vacuum on your AC bring the car on by once it's back together so you don't have to buy them. I've got the vacuum pump and gauge set for AC systems. I believe you can rent them too now but just don't want you spending $300ish bucks on tools you wont need more than once ;-)

[Lunchbox]

Looks like a nice piece and if it fits that's even better. I believe you are fairly local to me (I live in Leander TX). If so, and you don't already have the tools to pull vacuum on your AC bring the car on by once it's back together so you don't have to buy them. I've got the vacuum pump and gauge set for AC systems. I believe you can rent them too now but just don't want you spending $300ish bucks on tools you wont need more than once ;-)

Ah yeah, i'm not far off from you. I'm out in west in the hill country. I've got a pretty nice manifold gauge set but no vac pump. I did replace all the o-rings I could find on all connections, schrader valves and caps, and cleaned out the lines with brake cleaner and compressed air and dumped the oil from the original compressor. Still need to put new oil in the compressor and then bolt it all back together before giving it a charge. I imagine it'll be close to running probably 4th qtr here once parts arrive and i can start re-assembling it all.

If anyone knows what type of oil or brand to pick up for the compressor and how much to put in, im all ears!

Ill shoot you a pm once it gets a bit closer time wise.

[98RedGTS]

I believe the oil is dependent on the refrigerant you are planning on using but I'll let the experts advise if that is not the case. If you are still using 134a then it should be PAG oil. Here is a picture from my 98 service manual. Also including a picture of the amounts and where. I'm sure you did it too but since you didn't mention it be sure to change the orifice tube. It acts like a filter also and if dirty will cause all kinds of issues.

When the time comes bring it by and we can pull vacuum on it or you can borrow my pump.

2.jpg
thumbnail.jpg

[Lunchbox]

I havn't tackled the HVAC case components just yet, i know the expansion valve is in there, i'm guessing orifice tube is part of this assembly?
Can just the side of the HVAC Case be removed from the passenger side of the car and the unit slid out, or does it required getting under the dash on the passenger side?

Everything else has been cleaned and replaced otherwise though aside from the compressor itself. Compressor was just cleaned up externally and then the top "cap" or lid that was bolted on was removed and oil drained out entirely.

Also, thanks for the pics, i can't imagine its any different between a 98 and 01 viper. If you have recommendations on brand of ND8 Pag oil used, or a part number let me know!

EDIT: I may have spoken to soon on the part number stuff. Looks like this should work and i believe the compressor is a Denso brand anyway. I'll have to double check again to see if there is any
identifying logo/letters stamped on it to make sure.

Denso part number: 997635-8250

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-denso-pa...hoCh_QQAvD_BwE

[goggles Pizano]

The PAG oil used is based on the exact AC compressor model number not it's manufacturer. Also if you can get, get PAG with UV dye in it but first check if the compressor ships with oil in the first place.

ND-8 is a PAG46 oil.

PAG oil brand is not important.

[AZTVR]

including a picture of the amounts and where.

I havn't tackled the HVAC case components just yet, i know the expansion valve is in there, i'm guessing orifice tube is part of this assembly?

Everything else has been cleaned and replaced otherwise though aside from the compressor itself. Compressor was just cleaned up externally and then the top "cap" or lid that was bolted on was removed and oil drained out entirely.

So, how does one read that oil requirement chart? The component numbers do not add up to the Total AC System number. (I am guessing the "Line blown" has a meaning to AC system-trained techs, like maybe what is needed if a line blows the vaporized oil only, out?) The compressor is not listed at all. Sometimes new compressors have oil in them, and some do not. How does one figure out how much oil to use ?

[dave6666]

Here is the info that came with the AC Delco compressor I put on my H1. It's a GM engine hence the ACD part. I also did the drier and filled as per the doc. I did this a few years ago and the systems continues to perform well. I would imagine within reason the amounts are universal from vehicle to vehicle. I would also imagine the amounts are not rocket science. Round up if you question what to do.

0.02

Also, I find the tolerance for aftermarket copycat parts that don't fit well quite amusing. Having mounting holes that aren't right and a line connection that is off by an entire inch is okay because you didn't want to pay for factory parts? You can't make that stuff up. So thanks for the honesty with the ill fitting part, but don't call it an upgrade......

IMG.jpg

[Lunchbox]

Also, I find the tolerance for aftermarket copycat parts that don't fit well quite amusing. Having mounting holes that aren't right and a line connection that is off by an entire inch is okay because you didn't want to pay for factory parts? You can't make that stuff up. So thanks for the honesty with the ill fitting part, but don't call it an upgrade......

Oh i don't consider it any sort of upgrade, simply an alright replacement for oem if you can't get an oem part or aren't willing to pay the premium. I personally was willing to toy with the line a little bit to make it fit to save a few dollars to put more to other parts i deemed more essential. As for the price tag I cant really bitch too much. But yes, fitment is key and it didn't check that box really on my car and probably won't on others. I can only assume it was mocked up on a non-abs viper as i mentioned.

Anyway, yes people need to know what they're getting into if they buy it, its not perfect and you shouldn't expect perfect because its not oem. But its an option at the end of the day if its all you can get or all your budget affords.

[Lunchbox]

thumbnail.jpg

As for the oil level in the compressor, i stupidly dumped the oil without capturing and measuring it. The crappy thing here is that the "Total Air Conditioning System" doesn't specify compressor exclusively. It would make sense that the compressor is independent of these values. If anyone has further info or knows i'm all ears. I guess in the meantime i'm going to research and see what i can find.

[My98RT10]

I went through the oil thing during my AC overhaul in 2017, maybe there is some helpful information in my write-up:

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...essor+overhaul

Up to now, the system is still blowing cold with no leaks.