A serious Warning Check your A arms

[lisekplx]

Are those ball joints back in stock already or did you have some you bought a while ago sitting around? They're on my list but last i checked they've been out of stock for a while.

I bought a set from Howe and a set from summit. Summit might still have the uppers , not sure on the lowers. The Howe boots are on backorder til November. Their rubber is not as thick as oem but they have a snap ring. I used the Howe boots on the lowers and oem on uppers. So far so good.

[sonicbloo]

Well I am sad to announce that now another UK car has the same issues, fracture cracks in 3 of its control arms and this time on a later Gen model.

Get checking people.

It's my car that Mark is referring to. I got the MOT tester guy (MOT is our UK yearly inspection) to thoroughly clean and check my A arms top and bottom. Both lower fronts have very small hairline cracks starting, and one upper rear which is the worst. I have no pictures but will take some when I get the work done.

Luckily, due to this great community, and the info Mark posted, a potential ticking time-bomb has been averted

So far I've located and purchased a brand new upper rear A arm in Germany which should be here in the next few days. I'm hoping to get price and availability soon for the fronts in Europe (or if anyone in The US has them please let me know - so far I've had no reply from Don Scharfe, even though they have them on the shelf)

My car is no garage queen, I've covered 18,000 miles in 6 years, mainly in summer. I suppose the problem could have been there for quite a while - maybe years - who knows?

BTW - my car is currently sat at 29,999 miles, maybe it knows it will be worthless once it turns 30,000

.............. and I'm also guilty of having it detailed and ceramic coated this year (hangs head in shame )

[njsteve]

Most of us have floor jacks and creepers at a minimum. That and good, strong lighting are all you need to perform a reasonable inspection of these areas on your own. Some of us are a bit more OCD...

Does someone have a 1971 Hemi or 440+6 B-Body in their garage? :-)

[GTS Dean]

Not exactly, but very good spot!

[sonicbloo]

So far I've only managed to buy the rear upper arm, I'm still trying to locate good used lower front arms at a reasonable cost in Europe.

Here are pics of the cracked upper rear arm. One of the forked ends was much worse than the other, but both were cracked.

upper rear arm 1.jpg

upper rear arm 2.jpg

upper rear arm 3.jpg

upper rear arm 4.jpg

[TTSnake]

It would seem that the weak point would be where the narrow neck area is on the arm. But looking at the crack being around the bushing I would guess that it's caused by expansion of the bushing like a balloon swelling. Maybe the metal collar around the bushing corroded causing it to swell??? It would be interesting to figure out what could have caused it.

[njsteve]

Not exactly, but very good spot!

NICE!

[Steve-Indy]

Anyone ask the opinion of a forensic engineer ?

[dave6666]

It's corrosion. I work in engineering in the chemical industry. We deal with corroded stuff all the time. Chemicals and atmospheres that dissolve normal metals. When steel corrodes and rust and scale is formed, scale can build to 12x the original dimension of the part. That would be the internal steel sleeve in that pivot. The elastomer bushing, or "black rubber" as many would call it, will also deteriorate and lose it's elastomeric properties so it cannot absorb the dimensional change of the corroding steel sleeve. Eventually then on a mechanically stressed part like a control arm, something is going to fail.

The corrosion to that arm is caused by the environment. Whether salt or other chemicals on the road, combined with rain or snow or humidity, but that is what causes that.

I've got a wheel off my '01 right now as I'm doing some suspension and alignment work. The car has spent it's entire life in TX and OK which is a typically warm dry climate. I don't drive my car in the rain although I've been caught in the rain many times. So warm and dry applies for 99.999% of the time.

I just snapped these pics this morning. 21 years later, still looks new. Car has over 65K miles.

If you live in a cold wet area you need to be concerned. If you live in a warm dry climate you do not. It's that simple short of exceptions like crashing the car or other extreme uses.

20211202_031007.jpg

20211202_031032.jpg

[Fatboy 18]

100% its a corrosion issue, in the UK Salt is used on icy roads in winter, it rains here too, so the water and salt being thrown around the car year on year will do its worst to a lot of cars. I do not know what chemicals are used on roads in the wetter colder parts of the US of A? I also have no idea what they use on the roads of Europe? But this is now another dangerous fail that owners need to be aware of (and that was the point of the thread).

A FIX OF THE ISSUE WOULD BE TO IMMEDITALY REMOVE THE METAL BUSH AND REPLACE THE CONTROL ARM BUSHINGS WITH POLY BUSHINGS ELIMINATING THE METAL CONTACT WITH ALUMINIUM. IE: The Energy Suspension product made for the Viper control arms and other cars.

On another note, (hopefully so welders could chime in), would it be safe to repair the existing cracked arms?

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks Dave and Mark !!

[dave6666]

It is highly unlikely that any attempt at repairing that arm by any method including welding would ever result in a part that has the same structural integrity as when new.

So no, a repair would not be recommended. Or safe. Replace the part with a new or better one.

[dave6666]

By the way, in TX, we skip the deicing chemicals and cross our fingers instead. Pic from the Feb 2021 *big one* in Fort Worth.

Screenshot_2021-12-02-06-02-24.jpg

[Fatboy 18]

It is highly unlikely that any attempt at repairing that arm by any method including welding would ever result in a part that has the same structural integrity as when new.

So no, a repair would not be recommended. Or safe. Replace the part with a new or better one.

Thanks for the feedback Dave

[AZTVR]

It is highly unlikely that any attempt at repairing that arm by any method including welding would ever result in a part that has the same structural integrity as when new.

So no, a repair would not be recommended. Or safe. Replace the part with a new or better one.

This thread is of particular interest to me since I recently found a similar, significant crack in one of the spokes of the aluminum wheels that I use on my HPDE track car (not a Viper). I replaced the wheel and closely examined the others. However, this discussion has gotten me thinking about whether closer examination is warranted beyond just a visual, especially for someone buying a used part like a Viper control arm.

Is a cheaper dye penetrant kit like I have linked below likely to be acceptable, or does one need to go with a more expensive kit from Magnaflux, or possibly even a more expensive type that requires UV light? I have never used any of these products; but, now considering it.

https://regismanufacturing.com/kwik-...-aluminum-kck/

[GTS Dean]

You can't use magnaflux on aluminum.

So far I've only managed to buy the rear upper arm, I'm still trying to locate good used lower front arms at a reasonable cost in Europe.

Fortunately, the front lowers are interchangeable L/R. The only difference is the steel lower shock adapter brackets, which are bolt-ons.

[GTS Dean]

...

[AZTVR]

You can't use magnaflux on aluminum.

I was referring to the following linked product from the company, Magnaflux, rather than the generic term that us "old-timers" are used to using. I know what you are saying; but, it appears that there is a newer product out there now that I just learned of being offered by several companies.
magnaflux.com/Magnaflux/Blog/Dye-Penetrant-Infographic

[Fatboy 18]

I get what you are saying here AZTVR, but if you were purchasing a used viper, the seller may not be prepared to get the car up on a ramp and have you perform this test! It is certainly something to watch for in the future as the parts get older.

[TTSnake]

So basically if you drive on salt roads you need to inspect and replace. Most people who have Vipers normally don't drive on salted roads although all test vehicles are tested with salt spray as a normal procedure. Maybe they didn't test the viper parts as strenuously as other daily drivers.

[dave6666]

Salt spray testing does not even begin to replicate 25 years of exposure.

[Old School]

This has convinced me to install Energy Suspension polyurethane bushing on the front also (already have them on the rear).

[GTS Dean]

Salt spray testing does not even begin to replicate 25 years of exposure.

Back in the early 90's, Dodge had a pair of RT/10s running down in Corpus Christi that were reportedly limited to about 3500rpm. They were regularly driven on the beach and splashed. The Intracoastal Channel down into the Laguna Madre is known for extremely high salinity. This was done for accelerated salt corrosion testing. A couple of things to remember - the Gen 1 suspensions were all hot-dip galvanized tubular steel. And like Dave says, decades of RW driving and climate exposure make a difference.

[Gsalvatork]

Well thanks everyone ! If anyone is in Atlanta and wants to come with me next Saturday 1/29 to see it, I’d be grateful ….. I have wine …. and tequila . He lives in Kennesaw which is near Atlanta.

The seller has agreed to put it on a lift this weekend and take pics , I will update everyone . If somehow it doesn’t happen, I will picking up ramps at a local pepboys and doing the inspection myself .

Let me know folks , we could to

[Fatboy 18]

Well thanks everyone ! If anyone is in Atlanta and wants to come with me next Saturday 1/29 to see it, I’d be grateful ….. I have wine …. and tequila . He lives in Kennesaw which is near Atlanta.

The seller has agreed to put it on a lift this weekend and take pics , I will update everyone . If somehow it doesn’t happen, I will picking up ramps at a local pepboys and doing the inspection myself .

Let me know folks , we could to

Would love to help you inspect but sadly I'm in the UK on the other side of the pond!