WTB Gen2 Blue or Red Viper GTS

[jmart427]

Reviving this old thread..So long story, short, I'm back in the market for another Viper! I ended up having to sell the last one to settle my divorce, luckily it went to good hands to an F-16 pilot here in the Southwest. Happy Veterans Day to all my fellow veterans by the way.

I'm currently looking into a 96' with 16k miles in PHX. It's listed for $80k, but does need tires, pass window fix, A/C service, and probably a solid fluids, filters, and gaskets tune up. I know prices are fluctuating right now with the economy taking a shit, so I feel this may be my next best chance at getting into one before they bounce back up. Please PM if you have or know anyone who is considering selling their GTS. Again, looking for B/W or Red and under 45k miles. Max budget would be ~$70-75k (good condition, but only if it's B/W or Final Edition). Location does not matter; I shipped my last one from Tampa and loved every single minute of ownership.

[ADA///M]

Reviving this old thread..So long story, short, I'm back in the market for another Viper! I ended up having to sell the last one to settle my divorce, luckily it went to good hands to an F-16 pilot here in the Southwest. Happy Veterans Day to all my fellow veterans by the way.

I'm currently looking into a 96' with 16k miles in PHX. It's listed for $80k, but does need tires, pass window fix, A/C service, and probably a solid fluids, filters, and gaskets tune up. I know prices are fluctuating right now with the economy taking a shit, so I feel this may be my next best chance at getting into one before they bounce back up. Please PM if you have or know anyone who is considering selling their GTS. Again, looking for B/W or Red and under 45k miles. Max budget would be ~$70-75k (good condition, but only if it's B/W or Final Edition). Location does not matter; I shipped my last one from Tampa and loved every single minute of ownership.

luckily your budget is well above the current prices imo.

check the last few on BaT over the last 3-4 months. You should be able to find exactly what you want without issue.

There's a ton out there just hoping to cash in on last year's market craze and listing at $80k+ for $60k cars, just "testing the waters". But they aren't real. Just owners trying to make a buck

[Bill Pemberton]

Keep in mind when looking for any high performance 20-25 year old car that you will need reconditioning and repairs. Age on cars is just like on us old farts, those joints need greasing and often they need surgery to repair. Costs of repair is getting higher by the day, since parts are fairly scarce, so go into a buy of a Gen II ( or any older Viper ) with a side budget to fix stuff. Heck, tires alone will likely run you over 2K for a quality set, and you have not even begun.

Prices almost always fall as interest rates go up, and those of us who have meandered around this green planet for eons have seen exotic and muscle car prices bounce up and down as much as a tennis ball ( or pickle ball to be more attune to today ). Figure a car that goes for 80K , and is old, could easily add another 10K to get back to solid quality, even if fairly well maintained.

I always counseled folks to ask plenty of questions when getting older vehicles and use exact wording like :

When was the last time fluids were changed, not when were they checked. It is a common sentence one encounters in the Used Market that Dealers or individuals say they checked all the fluids. Great the car has fluids, but they could have been in there for decades. Fluids break down, even if the car has low mileage, and this is just one area you want to talk about to the Seller when you are looking for an older Viper ( or other unique machine ).

[Steve-Indy]

Excellent advice from a man who knows !!

[jmart427]

luckily your budget is well above the current prices imo.

check the last few on BaT over the last 3-4 months. You should be able to find exactly what you want without issue.

There's a ton out there just hoping to cash in on last year's market craze and listing at $80k+ for $60k cars, just "testing the waters". But they aren't real. Just owners trying to make a buck

Agreed. I think if you consider actual selling prices from auctions like Mecum/BaT and supplement those figures with Hagerty valuations, you can get a pretty accurate present day valuation on these cars. I'm interested in buying between a 2 and 3, (good to excellent) condition Gen2 GTS and most of those cars should be priced around the high 60's, low 70's mark. There are about 50 GTS's for sale right now on the market as well..Lot's of reds, lot's of B/W, but all really overpriced.

[jmart427]

Keep in mind when looking for any high performance 20-25 year old car that you will need reconditioning and repairs. Age on cars is just like on us old farts, those joints need greasing and often they need surgery to repair. Costs of repair is getting higher by the day, since parts are fairly scarce, so go into a buy of a Gen II ( or any older Viper ) with a side budget to fix stuff. Heck, tires alone will likely run you over 2K for a quality set, and you have not even begun.

Prices almost always fall as interest rates go up, and those of us who have meandered around this green planet for eons have seen exotic and muscle car prices bounce up and down as much as a tennis ball ( or pickle ball to be more attune to today ). Figure a car that goes for 80K , and is old, could easily add another 10K to get back to solid quality, even if fairly well maintained.

I always counseled folks to ask plenty of questions when getting older vehicles and use exact wording like :

When was the last time fluids were changed, not when were they checked. It is a common sentence one encounters in the Used Market that Dealers or individuals say they checked all the fluids. Great the car has fluids, but they could have been in there for decades. Fluids break down, even if the car has low mileage, and this is just one area you want to talk about to the Seller when you are looking for an older Viper ( or other unique machine ).

Agreed. Full Disclosure, I offered Streetcar Classics $70k for their 96' GTS. They turned down the offer citing that the car had been cared for in a climate controlled storage facility for the majority of it's life. They also stated that the car was the most competitively priced in the country. Here's the issue with the $80k sticker price:

The car has tires from 2006 and are showing signs of dry rotting.
The passenger window is inoperable.
The A/C does not blow cold.
Muffler delete (which knocks down resale value IMO)
and for me, the worst of all, ZERO service records.

So for me, I'm gonna spend at least $5k on replacing fluids, gaskets, P/S Pulley, and a battery alone because there's no way of telling if it's been done and it's far too risky to assume it has. I'm gonna drop $2k on tires. And then probably spend another $1k on fixing the A/C and window. The car's clearly been neglected and not driven. We all know how hot the cockpit of these cars can get...imagine driving that - without A/C....IN PHOENIX.

I thought $70k was a generous offer given that prices and valuations are likely to decline next year with a another rate hike pending and more uncertainty in the market. Hagerty would rate this car a 2 (Good). The current value on that is about $67k. Thoughts??

[Patentlaw]

JMART,

I think you are in the ballpark, honestly. The deal with zero service records is a little bit of a red herring. Many people on here change their own stuff religiously, therefore they would have "no service records". It just means they wrench. They might have sales receipts on the oil purchased, to prove the point of care. Your price, however, seems to be in line. I agree with you that the muffler delete does affect the resale value. and you are accounting for that with your offer. 80k will bring you an ACR (w shocks), upgraded plenum and light weight BBS wheels. The problem is finding one. I see lots of them listed at 129k....but that is outrageous.

You are stuck in a crazy economy that cars have appreciated so much, stupid Corolla's are going for big bucks.

[ADA///M]

Agreed. Full Disclosure, I offered Streetcar Classics $70k for their 96' GTS. They turned down the offer citing that the car had been cared for in a climate controlled storage facility for the majority of it's life. They also stated that the car was the most competitively priced in the country. Here's the issue with the $80k sticker price:

The car has tires from 2006 and are showing signs of dry rotting.
The passenger window is inoperable.
The A/C does not blow cold.
Muffler delete (which knocks down resale value IMO)
and for me, the worst of all, ZERO service records.

So for me, I'm gonna spend at least $5k on replacing fluids, gaskets, P/S Pulley, and a battery alone because there's no way of telling if it's been done and it's far too risky to assume it has. I'm gonna drop $2k on tires. And then probably spend another $1k on fixing the A/C and window. The car's clearly been neglected and not driven. We all know how hot the cockpit of these cars can get...imagine driving that - without A/C....IN PHOENIX.

I thought $70k was a generous offer given that prices and valuations are likely to decline next year with a another rate hike pending and more uncertainty in the market. Hagerty would rate this car a 2 (Good). The current value on that is about $67k. Thoughts??

Service records on low mile, low maintenance cars are ....whatever to me. Some people live and die by it.

I picked up a 99 Red GTS with 12k miles in October 2021 for 66k. I think that was during peak or almost peak pricing, but I still thought it was more than fair.

A car with 12k miles, isn't going to have much maintenance done other than a couple oil changes (not everyone does it once a year) and maybe some other fluids (but realistically no one does that either).

Everything was original, brakes, plugs, wires, filters (aside from oil), etc... I went through everything myself on all those items, and every other one that could possible be worn out (tie rods, IAT, TPS, etc...). and did all the usual upgrades as well as a couple small mods (exhaust/smooth tube/Roe tune). I'm probably into it for 5-7k more (include a clutch bc the slave cylinder shit the bed), but the car is perfect now and shouldn't need any maintenance for quite some time.

These aren't ferraris that need proof of dealer service 3 times a year on cars that have 500 total miles on them.

[ADA///M]

Agreed. I think if you consider actual selling prices from auctions like Mecum/BaT and supplement those figures with Hagerty valuations, you can get a pretty accurate present day valuation on these cars. I'm interested in buying between a 2 and 3, (good to excellent) condition Gen2 GTS and most of those cars should be priced around the high 60's, low 70's mark. There are about 50 GTS's for sale right now on the market as well..Lot's of reds, lot's of B/W, but all really overpriced.

Exactly. There are SO MANY on the market now and all you see is list prices.

BaT is basically the only way to know what sale prices are and should be pretty indicative. Most of these "dealers" or just holding out for some moron with too much cash to throw money at them.

[jmart427]

[Bill Pemberton]

Walk away, they likely meant the cats were removed and from past experience, fixing that could run into major costs and frankly it is illegal to sell in most States. Adding up the rest of he items , you could easily have well over 10K spent and some things might not even be repaired at that point.

Often the older cars need the boots replaced on the A-arms ( not cheap ), struts on the rear window ( cheap ), adjustment on the hood, other rubber pieces are rotted out, and it is not unusual to find other items one would not expect , but few Dealers fail to repair or are even aware of --- like valve cover gaskets leaking, rear main seal leak, etc. Remember these pieces are old and being in a climate controlled area is probably a Sales Statement ---- since they were not a common business in many parts of the Country till the last decade.

I would go into every older Viper with a minimum recondition budget of between 10-15K. Sounds high, but I would do the same for many performance cars of that age.

[jmart427]

Walk away, they likely meant the cats were removed and from past experience, fixing that could run into major costs and frankly it is illegal to sell in most States. Adding up the rest of he items , you could easily have well over 10K spent and some things might not even be repaired at that point.

Often the older cars need the boots replaced on the A-arms ( not cheap ), struts on the rear window ( cheap ), adjustment on the hood, other rubber pieces are rotted out, and it is not unusual to find other items one would not expect , but few Dealers fail to repair or are even aware of --- like valve cover gaskets leaking, rear main seal leak, etc. Remember these pieces are old and being in a climate controlled area is probably a Sales Statement ---- since they were not a common business in many parts of the Country till the last decade.

I would go into every older Viper with a minimum recondition budget of between 10-15K. Sounds high, but I would do the same for many performance cars of that age.

I agree, the "Climate controlled" statement is a total sales pitch. There was another 98' Red that I offered $68k for yesterday in San Antonio. Pretty clean, new tires, new battery, 9k miles. They're asking $80. I told the salesman it's only going to get colder and the markets only going to get worse. He said they couldn't take that much of a hit on the car. I told him they're going to take a worse hit later. He said these cars take time to sell.

[ACRSNK]

If you think you are going to steal a clean no stories B/W think again. $80K for a B/W with reasonably low miles and has been well maintained will be way north of $80K. Find one with 10K or less miles and you’re looking at $90K - $100K or more.

[jmart427]

If you think you are going to steal a clean no stories B/W think again. $80K for a B/W with reasonably low miles and has been well maintained will be way north of $80K. Find one with 10K or less miles and you’re looking at $90K - $100K or more.

What am I missing here then? This one went for $82,500. Less than 5k miles. Highest bidder only went up to 82,500 on this one as well. Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. I won't say value on these has dropped, we'll likely see them pop back up in 2024 perhaps, but the current market is definitely saying otherwise right now.

[COI]

What am I missing here then? This one went for $82,500. Less than 5k miles. Highest bidder only went up to 82,500 on this one as well. Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. I won't say value on these has dropped, we'll likely see them pop back up in 2024 perhaps, but the current market is definitely saying otherwise right now.

With the buyer's premium the buyer did pay in the $90K range. Looks like a pretty good price for a lower mileage '96. I do agree the market will likely soften a bit in the coming 6-12 months.

[ADA///M]

What am I missing here then? This one went for $82,500. Less than 5k miles. Highest bidder only went up to 82,500 on this one as well. Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. I won't say value on these has dropped, we'll likely see them pop back up in 2024 perhaps, but the current market is definitely saying otherwise right now.

Mecum/BJ get crazy above market money for some reason lately.

[ACRSNK]

What am I missing here then? This one went for $82,500. Less than 5k miles. Highest bidder only went up to 82,500 on this one as well. Respectfully, I'd have to disagree. I won't say value on these has dropped, we'll likely see them pop back up in 2024 perhaps, but the current market is definitely saying otherwise right now.

The one that sold at Mecum for $82,500 appears to be a great deal. You should have bought that one. The other B/W on BaT wasn't sold at $82,500, which means the Seller was looking for more that that final bid. Even if it did sell at that number, the actual price would have been $86,625 with buyer's premium. There will always be outliers on both ends (high & low), but overall, I think you will be hard pressed to find a nice lower mileage example on the cheap.

I'm sure you will find something that fits the bill.

[jmart427]

I hope so too! I'm actually in contact with a guy in Ohio who has a Final Edition that looks like it'll fit into my budget. Fingers crossed, gents!

[Bill Pemberton]

With all the liquid refeshment at those two Auctions the pricing must often be taken with a grain of salt. Having gone numerous times I always chuckle at what some folks pay under the influence. Just one source to view and not the end all by any means. From years and years of experience a well maintained old Snake still usually will need thousands to recondition --- just a word to the wise.

Kind of funny that just a few threads down is a 97 B/W with an asking price of 60K. It will be interesting to see where things are by the Spring of 23?

[Steve-Indy]

Just for the record (mostly for those folks who are newer to the Viper world) I believe that Mr. Pemberton has sold more Vipers than anyone else on the planet. He is a very experienced and honest dude who also has first hand, personal experience with Viper ownership having owned at least 3 generations of Vipers. He is also an experienced and competitive Viper driver. Listen to him !!

'Nuff said !!

[jmart427]

Proud Viper owner once again!

[capevettes]

Congratulations! Looks like an 01 Sapphire. Twin to mine Great choice. Enjoy the new ride.

[Steve-Indy]

Agree with capevettes on the great choice. I happened to be at CAAP when the sapphire Vipers were coming off of the line...they were stunning even in the artificial light !!

CONGRATS !!!