Oil pressure Oil weight Ticking

[d124716]

2000 GTS

Hello All, started noticing a ticking noise on passenger side of the engine closest to the firewall. Noise is there only when the engine (not just the coolant) warms up after driving for a while, using the stethoscope seems that ticking is loudest on the two last bolts of the valve cover (closes to the firewall, top and bottom bolt). I can also hear the noise from the cabin at times again, passenger side. Unfortunately not sure if there was noise there before the oil change.

1. Car has ~20K on it, clean, no leaks nothing like that
2. Had my oil changed not so far back (Mobil1 10W-30 Synthetic with Mopar oil filter).
3. Oil level is at a “full” mark.
4. Oil pressure always reads 60 occasionally moving to 70 psi. I’ve never seen it below 60 even at idle.
5. Popped the valve cover off and “shook” the rockers all seem to be having the same side to side play but all are consistent with each other. Tried pushing down on the rods they are not moving down.
Questions:
1. Any idea on the “ticking” is that normal?
2. Any idea on the oil PSI never dropping below 60 PSI? Is that normal?
Thank you!

[Old School]

If the valve cover is still off, you can start it and feel for the ticking on each rocker with your thumb as it's moving. If you do this put plenty of rags below the valve cover (away from the fan) to catch the oil spray.

[d124716]

Tried that, not sure if I didn't have the car hot enough or what, even ended up putting the cover back on and warming it up plenty, but didn't really get anywhere with identifying the tick. Took a slow motion video of the valves that I though were in question doesn't look tike the spring is bouncing or rotating or anything like that. Just put everything back together and took the car for a ride, I am surprised to hear the tick more pronounced from the cabin than from the engine bay.. and it is most definitely needs to be plenty warm before it happens, just getting the car up to temp doesn't seem to do it.... what else is there on the engine's firewall side that could give such a tick into the cabin?.... anything in the transmission mating with the engine?

[GTS Dean]

Exhaust gasket or cracked manifold?

[Lalmeida617]

Try Mobil 1 0W-40.

[dave6666]

Try Mobil 1 0W-40.

^^^ this. It's actually a correct oil for the Gen 2 but wasn't available when the car was being sold new. You can also try 15w50 but 0w40 is a better choice long term. I've been using it in my GTS for about 15 years.

[Exhlr8n]

Not sure how loud the ticking is? But the injectors do make a faint ticking noise.

[d124716]

Used a slow motion feature on the phone and made a video clip of the first 3 sets of rockers (counting from the fire wall towards the radiator on the passenger bank). With the volume up listen to the "bang" while watching the rockers move. First rocker makes a loud "bang" as it goes back up. As you move to the rockers on the next cylinder the bang gets quieter, by the time you get to the third set of rockers there is NO bang/noise associated with the rockers moving at all! The noise is there only when the engine (I'm guessing the oil itself) is hot as I cannot get it to "bang" even when the fans kick in to cool off the coolant after the car has been running for good 5 minutes (from cold start). I tried the 0W-40 today the knock is still there, all though seems like is it quieter (the video was made with 10W-30). I would love to think / hope that this is how these things work BUT, with just one rocker being SO loud and the others being quite I am concerns. Any thoughts on what I am dealing with here?

[Old School]

In addition to it being synchronized with sound, the first rocker is flinging oil much farther than the rest, as if the valve is slamming shut. Might be a broken valve spring?

[d124716]

In addition to it being synchronized with sound, the first rocker is flinging oil much farther than the rest, as if the valve is slamming shut. Might be a broken valve spring?

Yes I do see that now too. However wouldn't broken spring slow the lift back up? Less spring tension - slower return?

[Old School]

Yes I do see that now too. However wouldn't broken spring slow the lift back up? Less spring tension - slower return?

At idle you don't need much spring pressure to close the valve. I was thinking the noise might be the break coming back together. Look at and feel the spring with the valve both open and closed. I'd pull that rocker and look for anything weird with it or the pushrod.

[GTS Dean]

^Mike is correct.^ It also looks to me like the #8 intake is not carrying as much oil down the rocker as the rest of the system. My money would be on the #8 intake because it it also in synch with the knock. I think a reason you're hearing it more more toward the rear is the echo effect from the firewall and toe box nearby.

[d124716]

EDITING my original comment about the oil.
visually the springs look intact I've shook and tried turning them when stationary, felt solid. I am only able to keep the car running and filming for a very short time until the oil start flooding the headers and wet rags start smoking, I am afraid of them catching fire so I shut the car off. As a result the oil distribution is not always equal on the rockers as I wipe them down before starting back up for next video shoot. I might be wrong. Now as I understand there are two springs per rocker, I cannot see what is happening with the "inner" spring as I cannot see it. Another thing that is throwing me off is that there is NO knock while the car is cold, nothing, wouldn't I have the broken spring knock at all times, hot or cold. I uploaded another video for a more of a "cold" start where there isn't that much oil, I believe the sound if the "hard knock" is not there and what we are hearing is the rocker next to it working. I might be wrong as sometimes on these slow motion video the sound gets out of synch with the video. Anyhow take a look at this one please, there is a good side view maybe that will show you something I am not seeing:

On the oil - looks like the the very first rocker in my original video is getting a lot of oil (as Old School mentioned), especially when it settles back down there is a bit of an "flood" which looks far more of a "flood" than the rest of rockers. Looking closely to where the pushrod hole is, this one definitely is getting more when pushrod sets down. What would that mean? What supplies oil to the other end of the pushrod (down by the cam) and what would cause it to supply more oil then the rest.... or is it just getting the most because it is "First in line of supply"?

[d124716]

^Mike is correct.^ It also looks to me like the #8 intake is not carrying as much oil down the rocker as the rest of the system. My money would be on the #8 intake because it it also in synch with the knock. I think a reason you're hearing it more more toward the rear is the echo effect from the firewall and toe box nearby.

Dean I think you are RIGHT! Video editing shifts the sound during upload! Plus when filming first set of valves the microphone is closest to first rocker on #8! So as i move towards #8 the mic moves away making it seem like its quite down. So with that said, what would you say the next step? What would you do?

Thanks!

[GTS Dean]

Investigate lifter and pushrod.

[d124716]

Investigate lifter and pushrod.

How to check lifters without removing the head, what to look for?

Pushrods - check for being bent, check for odd wear on ends, anything else to look for?

[GTS Dean]

Strong magnet on a telescoping extension.

[d124716]

Hi Dean, Thank you for the info!

Sorry for all the dumb questions:

1. Looks like there is head gasket that is in the way - there are holes in the head gasket to allow the rods to pass through, I don't know if lifters will pass through it
2. Can I remove retainer clip (#18 in the diagram below) without removing the head (I assume I need to remover the retainer to remove the lifter).

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[GTS Dean]

The SEARCH function will reward you.

[d124716]

The SEARCH function will reward you.

Lol thanks Dean! I have been rewarded - magnets, swivel head, patience! Got it no problem got most of that what I don't have I will acquire before doing the job.

Most importantly... is there a way to tell if the lifter is bad without taking it out... besides pushrod play up/down when the valve is down? Are there any other clues to look for?

What is constantly throwing me off is that the noise comes back after the motor warms up.... all other lifter defects seem to be ether always there or very apparent of cold start, my symptoms are exactly opposite.

Thoughts?

[GTS Dean]

There may be a foreign body in that one lifter or pushrod. There may be an internal clearance issue within the lifter that bleeds more when warm. You may have a failing roller. Who knows?

[d124716]

Basically quit pussyfooting around get it out and look at it! I'm on it Dean, thank you for the info!

[d124716]

do these plugs look healthy (don't mind fresh oil on the threads, that's from running the car with no valve covers for tests above, some oil got on spark plug boot, etc.)? would a bad valve seal cause the knock that I am experiencing? I have seen some blue smoke few times taking off from the stop light BUT it's been a WHILE since then and oddly enough I haven't seen it back again! Was thinking at the time that I need to change valve seals .... kind of a winter project but then later on this knock got my attention and took my mind off of that. Could the knock and the bad valve seals be related.... and where did my blue smoke go?
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[Viper Specialty]

Couple Points:

If on OE head gaskets, lifter cannot be removed without pulling the head. Only on our head gaskets is this possible.

I have seen sounds like this before from a few sources:
-Bad lifter that bleeds down too much, and slams the valve closed. [excess oil flow on a single lifter further points to this, as oil flow is controlled by piston clearance]
-Slightly bent valve head
-Broken springs [But usually make noise during Open, not Close... and often has other damage associated]
-Bent pushrod making contact elsewhere... but usually has accompanying issues.

[GTS Dean]

I have seen sounds like this before from a few sources:

Would you send me some of what you have? I'll crank up some Floyd and Captain Beyond!