Finally weighed the Viper

[Tamvette]

Referencing your copy...

Ah that makes sense, my bad

[ViperGeorge]

Reducing weight is good bang for the buck and almost always cheaper then building HP;........ to a certain point. Reducing weight you always start with the obvious and cheapest first. Reducing weight is also inversely proportional to safety. 5% reduction in weight means you can, should or have to add 3-5% more driver protection.

1. Driver ....If you want to win go to the gym. ( dirt cheap)
2. Comfort items or anything that can catch fire ( cheap)
3. Always reduce weight in front of axle centerline or polar moment weight as much as possible first expensive reduction. ( expensive)
4. Rotational mass ( expensive)
5. un-sprung weight (expensive)
6. systems (VERY EXPENSIVE)

Thanks but could you be more specific as to what items on the Viper you would change? For example I think a list like the following would be very useful if someone with the knowledge could complete it.

1) Battery to Lithium Ion - cost around $900 - effort easy - weight savings 15lbs
2) Xbrace to Carbon Fiber - cost around $2800 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
3) Rotors to Stoptech or similar - cost around ?? - effort moderate - weight savings ??
4) Wheels to lighter weight ones such as Sidewider IIs or aftermarket - cost $3000 to $9000 - effort easy - weight savings vary but could be 5-10lbs per wheel
5) Remove passenger seat - cost $0 - effort moderate - weight savings 40lbs?
6) Remove rear storage compartment carpet - cost $0 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
7) Remove Air Conditioning - cost $0 - effort difficult - weight savings ??
8) Replace rear belly pan with carbon fiber - cost $1295 - effort moderate - weight savings 6lbs
9) Replace pedals with lighter DSE kit - cost $550 - effort easy - weight savings 1lb.
10) etc.

[Arizona Vipers]

Thanks but could you be more specific as to what items on the Viper you would change? For example I think a list like the following would be very useful if someone with the knowledge could complete it.

1) Battery to Lithium Ion - cost around $900 - effort easy - weight savings 15lbs
2) Xbrace to Carbon Fiber - cost around $2800 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
3) Rotors to Stoptech or similar - cost around ?? - effort moderate - weight savings ??
4) Wheels to lighter weight ones such as Sidewider IIs or aftermarket - cost $3000 to $9000 - effort easy - weight savings vary but could be 5-10lbs per wheel
5) Remove passenger seat - cost $0 - effort moderate - weight savings 40lbs?
6) Remove rear storage compartment carpet - cost $0 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
7) Remove Air Conditioning - cost $0 - effort difficult - weight savings ??
8) Replace rear belly pan with carbon fiber - cost $1295 - effort moderate - weight savings 6lbs
9) Replace pedals with lighter DSE kit - cost $550 - effort easy - weight savings 1lb.
10) etc.

1. You can save a lot more with battery, you can go as low as 2lbs on it, I run an 8lb one normally and 2lb when going for a track record.
2. carbon xbrace is 2.8lbs lighter
3. from what i remember the stoptech brakes on the trackpack cars weighed about 30 lbs less overall
4. If you have an ACR, the wheels and Kumho's are extremely heavy. I saved almost 100lb reciprocating and unsprung mass just going to Forgelines and slicks. It was 80lbs less with Forgelines and Hoosiers. This is a MASSIVE performance advantage everywhere on track, acceleration, braking, handling obviously.
5. Seats weigh 54 lbs each, you can save about 80lbs with Doug Shelby's Tillett seat kit
7. A/C don't bother, the entire system including compressor, condenser and all lines weighs 13 lbs total. The heater core weighs 12!
Windshield wiper bracket weighs 7lbs- https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...et-weigh-7-lbs
After the free stuff, the best for the money IMO would be dough shelby's front foam core splitter extension it saves 11 lbs off the extreme front of the car

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Thanks but could you be more specific as to what items on the Viper you would change? For example I think a list like the following would be very useful if someone with the knowledge could complete it.

1) Battery to Lithium Ion - cost around $900 - effort easy - weight savings 15lbs
2) Xbrace to Carbon Fiber - cost around $2800 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
3) Rotors to Stoptech or similar - cost around ?? - effort moderate - weight savings ??
4) Wheels to lighter weight ones such as Sidewider IIs or aftermarket - cost $3000 to $9000 - effort easy - weight savings vary but could be 5-10lbs per wheel
5) Remove passenger seat - cost $0 - effort moderate - weight savings 40lbs?
6) Remove rear storage compartment carpet - cost $0 - effort easy - weight savings 2lbs?
7) Remove Air Conditioning - cost $0 - effort difficult - weight savings ??
8) Replace rear belly pan with carbon fiber - cost $1295 - effort moderate - weight savings 6lbs
9) Replace pedals with lighter DSE kit - cost $550 - effort easy - weight savings 1lb.
10) etc.

George your list is pretty dang good. We should probably do 2 lists. List 1 strictly performance based and any changes would be purely bang for the buck performance and safety. List 2 would be parts that are finite performance based but more vanity cool factor based

We all like to think we are great drivers and pushing it to the limit every time on the track. You think you have left nothing on the table the car cant go any faster; "I need to buy more go fast light weight parts to go any faster". Throw a pro driver in your car and see how fast your car is as it sits.

BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK PERFORMANCE LIST

1. Driver ..... Gym/cardio training program 100.00 per month- not easy but worth it
2. Professional driver coaching..........400-800.00 per weekend- extremely humbling- worth 10 times what you paid in the long run

FINITE PERFORMANCE VANITY COOL FACTOR LIST

1. True dual element race wing properly designed and engineered 7k-10k relatively easy install- super super cool- well worth the money for drivers who can take advantage of it
2. carbon fiber door mirrors 3k easy install- 100% looks bad ass - no performance improvement


something like this George???

[ViperGeorge]

George your list is pretty dang good. We should probably do 2 lists. List 1 strictly performance based and any changes would be purely bang for the buck performance and safety. List 2 would be parts that are finite performance based but more vanity cool factor based

We all like to think we are great drivers and pushing it to the limit every time on the track. You think you have left nothing on the table the car cant go any faster; "I need to buy more go fast light weight parts to go any faster". Throw a pro driver in your car and see how fast your car is as it sits.

BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK PERFORMANCE LIST

1. Driver ..... Gym/cardio training program 100.00 per month- not easy but worth it
2. Professional driver coaching..........400-800.00 per weekend- extremely humbling- worth 10 times what you paid in the long run

FINITE PERFORMANCE VANITY COOL FACTOR LIST

1. True dual element race wing properly designed and engineered 7k-10k relatively easy install- super super cool- well worth the money for drivers who can take advantage of it
2. carbon fiber door mirrors 3k easy install- 100% looks bad ass - no performance improvement


something like this George???

I had suggested long ago to a different vendor that they create a list of performance improvements in order of diminishing returns for the money. I agree that driver education and seat time are the best performance bang for the buck. I am by no means a professional, more of an amateur with some years of experience. I always tell people that I could be faster if I didn't have so much to live for.

However, I have discovered that I can in fact go faster by changing the car some. For example, adding Hoosiers or similar tires makes a big difference over street tires (PZeros or PS2s, the Kuhmos are close to Hoosiers maybe faster). DOT R tires improve confidence and make me go faster. Ditto for racing brake pads such as Raybestos 45s and 43s as well as Dot 5 fluid like Motul 600. More confidence in the brakes makes me more confident and faster. Harnesses also make me faster because I'm not fighting to stay put. If I created a performance list it might be something like this although the order to do them should be determined:

1) Harnesses - cost $1200 for both sides - effort easy - keeps you stationary and improves confidence
2) Hoosiers, Proxies RR, Slicks or similar - cost $1200-$2000 depending on tires - effort easy - improves traction, braking, and cornerning
3) Racing Brake pads - cost $500 for Raybestos - effort moderate - reduces or eliminates brake fade and improves stopping distance
4) Motul Brake fluid or similar - cost $30 for 2 bottles of Motul - effort easy - reduces or eliminates brake fade due to cooked fluid
5) Heads and Cam upgrade - cost $25,000 - $30,000 - effort difficult - adds HP and Torque
6) 9L upgrade - cost >$35,000, effort difficult - adds HP and Torque
7) Headers and Cat back exhaust - cost $7,000 - effort difficult - adds HP and Torque.
8) Shocks - cost $7,000 - effort difficult - improves handling
9) etc.

I'm not sure which order I would put them in but probably brake pads and fluid might be first on my list, second would probably be harnesses, third tires, So maybe we could use three lists. One that detailed weight reduction options in order of price per pound saved. Second, a performance list in order of bang for the the buck, and third but not least, a safety list that would include things like Helmet, suit, gloves, fire proof under garments, Neck support, fire suppression, kill, switch, roll bar, roll cage, harnesses (although they could also be on the performance list), etc.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

I had suggested long ago to a different vendor that they create a list of performance improvements in order of diminishing returns for the money. I agree that driver education and seat time are the best performance bang for the buck. I am by no means a professional, more of an amateur with some years of experience. I always tell people that I could be faster if I didn't have so much to live for.

However, I have discovered that I can in fact go faster by changing the car some. For example, adding Hoosiers or similar tires makes a big difference over street tires (PZeros or PS2s, the Kuhmos are close to Hoosiers maybe faster). DOT R tires improve confidence and make me go faster. Ditto for racing brake pads such as Raybestos 45s and 43s as well as Dot 5 fluid like Motul 600. More confidence in the brakes makes me more confident and faster. Harnesses also make me faster because I'm not fighting to stay put. If I created a performance list it might be something like this although the order to do them should be determined:

1) Harnesses - cost $1200 for both sides - effort easy - keeps you stationary and improves confidence
2) Hoosiers, Proxies RR, Slicks or similar - cost $1200-$2000 depending on tires - effort easy - improves traction, braking, and cornerning
3) Racing Brake pads - cost $500 for Raybestos - effort moderate - reduces or eliminates brake fade and improves stopping distance
4) Motul Brake fluid or similar - cost $30 for 2 bottles of Motul - effort easy - reduces or eliminates brake fade due to cooked fluid
5) Heads and Cam upgrade - cost $25,000 - $30,000 - effort difficult - adds HP and Torque
6) 9L upgrade - cost >$35,000, effort difficult - adds HP and Torque
7) Headers and Cat back exhaust - cost $7,000 - effort difficult - adds HP and Torque.
8) Shocks - cost $7,000 - effort difficult - improves handling
9) etc.

I'm not sure which order I would put them in but probably brake pads and fluid might be first on my list, second would probably be harnesses, third tires, So maybe we could use three lists. One that detailed weight reduction options in order of price per pound saved. Second, a performance list in order of bang for the the buck, and third but not least, a safety list that would include things like Helmet, suit, gloves, fire proof under garments, Neck support, fire suppression, kill, switch, roll bar, roll cage, harnesses (although they could also be on the performance list), etc.

Great idea!!! "list of performance improvements in order of diminishing returns for the money". If it slows down this winter we will try and put something together.

[ViperGeorge]

Great idea!!! "list of performance improvements in order of diminishing returns for the money". If it slows down this winter we will try and put something together.

I think that if there were the three lists I mention, weight, performance, and safety, it would be hugely valuable. The list would allow an owner to do the things that make the most difference based on bang for the buck. If you guys do put together the lists I would hope that you include changes beyond those which you yourselves sell. If you guys, DSE, and Viper Specialty all got together and created a consolidated list it would be great.

I don't know if you've ever seen the original 1930s movie "Miracle on 34th Street" with Natalie Wood as a child. In it the Santa Claus that worked for Macy's would tell parents where they could buy a toy that Macy's didn't sell. Macy's gained sales as a result (at least in the movie). I think that comprehensive lists could generate sales for everyone.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

I think that if there were the three lists I mention, weight, performance, and safety, it would be hugely valuable. The list would allow an owner to do the things that make the most difference based on bang for the buck. If you guys do put together the lists I would hope that you include changes beyond those which you yourselves sell. If you guys, DSE, and Viper Specialty all got together and created a consolidated list it would be great.

I don't know if you've ever seen the original 1930s movie "Miracle on 34th Street" with Natalie Wood as a child. In it the Santa Claus that worked for Macy's would tell parents where they could buy a toy that Macy's didn't sell. Macy's gained sales as a result (at least in the movie). I think that comprehensive lists could generate sales for everyone.

We like your Miracle of 34th street reference so close to the holidays. Absolutely we can do an honest list from a professional motor sports engineering and mfg point of view. There is some good stuff out there made by other mfg besides us for dodge vipers owners. There is also unfortunately alot poorly designed, engineered and mfg stuff out there that Santa wouldn't even let the Grinch run on his sled.