New TPMS

[ViperSRT]

When I had new tires installed at Discount Tire (wheels& tires only) on my Gen 3 earlier this year they broke 2 or 3 sensors and replaced them for free. They must have cloned the sensors as I do not have a TPS warning.

[Steve M]

Thanks for all of the info.

Anyone know if the Schrader EZ Sensors should be hit with a magnet or tpms tool during the relearn?

I feel like this would be much easier if I didn't have to rely on a dealer for access to a DRB III.

It won't hurt them to experiment to see if you can get them to transmit during the DRB III relearn process. I know my Autel TPMS scanner can get newer sensors to transmit on command, as I've done it multiple times with multiple sensors on two different vehicles. Unfortunately, my data set is limited to the following (as in I know these work):

- OEM sensors on my 2007 Toyota Tacoma (13 years old, and were still going strong)
- Alligator Sens.it 315 MHz clamp-in sensor that I used to replace the OEM Tacoma sensors (https://www.amazon.com/Alligator-sen...FZWS1ECNWS019S)
- OEM sensors on my 2008 Dodge Viper
- Aftermarket sensors that were cloned by Dan Lesser to match my original 2008 sensors - I'm pretty sure they were Orange TPMS sensors (http://viperspecialtyperformance.com...roducts_id/154)
- Alligator Sens.it 433 MHz clamp-in sensors (https://www.amazon.com/Alligator-sen...FE1PQWFRDA8R5Y)

I've never messed with any of the Schrader sensors, but they should respond just like any other newer sensor.

The problem with the dealer could be that the sensor you have in there does not respond to the magnet like the older sensors do. If they won't transmit on command, based on what I've seen in this thread about how the DRB III works, then the system will never get the signal it is looking for.

If that's what is needed, then maybe you do need their scan tool on hand while the dealership is doing the standard DRB III relearn procedure. Not sure if that's feasible or not.

The best thing at this point besides scrapping the sensors you have and going with a new set of Mopar sensors that they know will work with the DRB III would be the following:

1. Have them go through all possible menus in the DRB III and see if it can retrieve the codes currently in your TPMS module - use that to have the tire shop reprogram your new sensors to reflect the correct IDs
2. If you think it is an issue getting the sensors to talk when asked, I might be willing to send you my TPMS scanner, knowing full well I'd want it back when you were done with it. I could walk you through how to get the sensor IDs, which is how you can get the sensors to talk. I'm thinking maybe if you did that while the DRB III has the TPMS module in relearn mode, it could work...it's a long shot, and would also require me mailing you the scanner, so you'd have to wait for it to show up, and it might not work. It'd be nice if you were closer.

Other than that, I'm kinda out of ideas. Like I said earlier, I could clone you a new set of sensors, but I still need to know those codes.

I'm sure I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be...maybe Dan Lesser will stop by and bring some sanity to this.

[Old School]

I used Schrader 20028 sensors from RockAuto which required a magnet (stated in the description). I got a TPMS magnet off ebay to use with my friends DRB. If I were to guess, I'd say the EZ version would use a tool.

[Steve M]

When I had new tires installed at Discount Tire (wheels& tires only) on my Gen 3 earlier this year they broke 2 or 3 sensors and replaced them for free. They must have cloned the sensors as I do not have a TPS warning.

I'd believe it...if they did it wrong, you'd definitely know about it within the first couple miles or so of driving it.

My experience with cloning has been positive...the ones that I have done have worked with no issues to speak of. They just need two things to be happy:

1. Transmit on the correct frequency (433 MHz for the Viper)
2. Transmit the correct ID - that's the only way the TPMS module knows it is talking to the correct set of sensors

The best down-to-earth description I've found about how TPMS sensors work in general came from another forum (TacomaWorld Forum), which I'll share here because why not?

Here's how it works. The sensors are 1 way communication. The truck listens to the information being sent to it by the sensors. The truck only listens to sensors it's been programmed to listen to. Let's call them Bob, Jake, Johnny, and Rafael. So, each sensor tells the truck what presure is in the tire. Let's say they're all at 32. When you push the button (can't do this on a Viper), the truck learns that 32 is normal pressure and keeps the light off. Now, 1 morning Johnny is on a bad hangover and tells the truck he's only at 25PSI. The truck turns on the light to let you know. You give Johnny some Pepto Bismol (air), the truck is happy and turns out the light. On your way to work, there's a Tacoma beside you at the light with a low tire. That sensor is named Brittany. Your trucks light doesn't come on because your truck doesn't listen to Brittany.

So, when you get new sensors, there's 2 ways to make the truck happy.

1. Pull new OEM or aftermarket OEMtype sensors off the shelf and program the truck to listen to them. Now the truck only listens to George, Paul, John, and Ringo. This programming can only be done by plugging into the truck's OBD2 connector.

2. There are aftermarket sensors that have no name. It's like adopting a puppy at the shelter. Your dog Bob crosses over the rainbow bridge. You go to the shelter and adopt a new puppy and name him Bob. (The tire shop programs the nameless sensor to say, "Hi, my name is Bob") Now your truck still listens to Bob. Your truck isn't smart enough to realize it's a different Bob. He thinks it's the same old Bob, and is content and patiently waiting for Bob to go on a drinking binge.

Yeah, I'm sure there's more to it than this, but the systems really aren't that complicated. The problem is that there are too many nuances among the different manufacturers, even within their own lineups, to make a nice, concise set of rules that will work for 99.9% of all cars out there. The Gen 3/4 Viper is unfortunately one of those creatures that lurks in the shadows, just waiting to make a tech's life difficult should you dare to do something a little outside the box.

[Steve M]

Here's another idea, but it'll cost you $18...there's no guarantee it will work, but it might:

https://www.amazon.com/JDiag-Relearn...68&sr=8-4&th=1

That looks like it can get the TPMS sensors to talk when asked, which would do what my much more expensive (~$200) scanner does.

Have the dealership put the car in relearn mode with the DRB III, and then walk around it with that thing instead of a magnet.

[osuaero]

Spent some time with the dealer tech and DRB III this morning.

Tech was able to read all 4 sensors on their Mopar TPMS tool, however, we could not get them paired to the car.

We successfully got the LF paired but couldn't get further than that. DRB III would never acknowledge the RF sensor. For future reference, the Schrader EZ sensor is triggered by a TPMS tool, rather than a magnet.

FYI Steve M, the DRB III shows the six digit code same as the tire shop tool (LF showed 729760 in DRB III). Further, the sensor IDs for the other locations were blank, the original sensor IDs were not stored. The tech theorized they were blank because the car had not been in contact with the original sensors for an extended period of time.

My plan now is to order the sensors recommended by Steve-Indy (Schrader SB 20028) and pair them to the car outside the tires. Once successfully paired they will be installed. I want to pair them outside the wheels as I'm running aftermarket wheels with the sensors in bands near the middle of the wheel and everyone (dealer tech and Steve-Indy) are skeptical as to whether the magnet will activate with them on the wheel.

Anyone think this sounds like a bad idea?

[Steve-Indy]

Were your old sensors mounted as a valve stem type on your aftermarket wheels (like on OEM wheels) or with bands in center of wheel.

If you do order new sensors, call Luke Pavlick at TireRack...extension 362....AND deal ONLY with him to be sure you get the correct sensors.

[osuaero]

Old sensors (original OEM) were mounted with bands in the center of the wheel. They functioned properly inside the aftermarket wheels for 11 years or so. They started acting up a couple months ago. I assume due to the sensor batteries dying.

Tire shop is now telling me to keep the sensors and is giving me a refund on them. They don't want any part of pulling the tires back off. Manager lamented that he didn't want to work on the car in the first place (keep in mind I called AND took the car to them to inspect prior to making an appointment for the install). I now get to pay to have them mounted/balanced a second time.

[Old School]

(Schrader SB 20028)

Yep, those are the sensors that worked with a magnet on my 2003.

[Steve M]

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but glad you are at least heading back in the right direction. Following Steve-Indy's advice is never a bad idea...if I were in your shoes, I'd do whatever he recommends from this point forward.

As for the DRB readout (hex vs. base 10), thanks for following up. It is nothing more than a formatting issue...like I said, my Autel TPMS scan tool displays the number in hex, which didn't match what was actually written on the sensors. When I took the number on the sensor and converted it to hex, then it lined up. It's just something to note for anyone that runs across this thread in the future...if something doesn't match up, try converting it to one or the other and see if it matches then.

What wheels are you running? I've only had experience with the Forgestars I'm currently running, which accept the standard 20° clamp in style TPMS sensors. I've never heard of attaching the sensors with bands, but after looking at some pics, I now understand what you're dealing with. Learn something new every day.

Best of luck, and let us know when you get it sorted.

[Steve-Indy]

Steve M, I spoke with the owner of the 2010 that I could not program...he will bring his Bartec and I will bring the DRB III and we will try the EZ sensors again. I will report the outcome either way.

Thanks to ALL in this thread for the valuable insights !!

[Steve M]

Steve M, I spoke with the owner of the 2010 that I could not program...he will bring his Bartec and I will bring the DRB III and we will try the EZ sensors again. I will report the outcome either way.

Thanks to ALL in this thread for the valuable insights !!

Please do...it's one of those things that shouldn't be difficult, yet somehow it still is.

[osuaero]

I'm running Forgeline SP3P in stock sizes.

After contemplating this a bit and another chat with Indy Steve I'm going to try and get my hands on a DRB III and a trigger tool to play around with this and get it sorted. I know the sensors will pair as we got one to do it. The others may be a function of tire position as Steve mentioned on the phone. I will certainly go down this path if Steve is able to get the EZ Sensors paired with the DRB III/Bartec.

[osuaero]

Steve M - one other thing. The sensor code shown on the Mopar TPMS tool did not match the codes read by the Bartec nor the one code we got to read with the DRB III. Mopar tool code was six or eight digits (can't remember for sure at this point but I really think it was 6) and had a "B" in it.

Just converted 729670 Base 10 to Hex and got......000B2246 which I believe is what was shown on the Mopar tool.

In short Bartec and DRB III seem to be talking in Base 10 and the Mopar tool in Hex.

[Steve M]

Interesting. For reference, here are the IDs for the ones in my car (I keep all my maintenance stuff and other info in a spreadsheet so I can find it quickly):



Which leads me to another question to which I have no answer: is there an acceptable range of values the car's TPMS module will accept, and outside of that range it won't?

The only reason I ask is because your new sensors are 6 digits in base 10...all of mine were 7 digits (well, 8 with only 7 significant figures). Would 00000001 work as an ID? How about 99999999? Does it matter?

As another random, but unrelated example, the sensor IDs for my truck are all 7-digit hex, which end up being 9-digit base 10 numbers.

Probably won't get an answer to that one anytime soon...

[Steve M]

Now here's another interesting tidbit - I ran the FCC ID through the Google gonkulator, and came up with the FCC documentation for my '08's OEM TPMS sensor:

https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/MRXTG224AM02

The operational description provides some pretty good insight into how these things work:

https://fcc.report/FCC-ID/MRXTG224AM02/139742

It also includes pictures of the electronics and battery - looks like it used a 3V CR24XX lithium battery with an expected 10-year service life.

[osuaero]

Excellent info Steve. I've taken a far greater interest in TPMS sensors than I would have ever thought prior to this experience. My engineering brain (and wallet) really wants to get these EZ sensors rolling.

[Item 7]

Sensors installed: Schrader 33520 EZ Sensor or BH Sens 4041 (433 MHz universal sensor)

This is a helpful discussion. I didn’t see anyone listing OE part numbers for the Gen IV TPMS in this thread. Does anyone know? Are the OE TPMS still available? If not, thoughts on the least painful / easiest to get programmed replacement TPMS for Gen IV?

[Viper Specialty]

Sensors installed: Schrader 33520 EZ Sensor or BH Sens 4041 (433 MHz universal sensor)

This is a helpful discussion. I didn’t see anyone listing OE part numbers for the Gen IV TPMS in this thread. Does anyone know? Are the OE TPMS still available? If not, thoughts on the least painful / easiest to get programmed replacement TPMS for Gen IV?

Easiest Solution:

Call Dan Lesser, and mail him your TPMS module. Or your Sensors. Or find a dealer to scan the sensor codes and send me a screen shot. Or drive to him.

Rather than screw around with guessing what will work and where, while trying to track down unobtanium sensors for an obsolete system using tools that nobody has and no one understands... Just call the guy who has all of those things and can program/supply/code sensors and modules, and be done with it. One stop shop.

[osuaero]

Finally got my TPMS situation worked out and wanted to update this thread for future reference.

I never was able to pair the Schrader EZ Sensors directly using a DRB III and sensor trigger. However, I was able to get the EZ Sensors to work with the following:

1. Acquire Schrader 20028 Sensors
2. Copy 20028 sensor IDs to the EZ Sensors
3. Pair the 20028 sensors to the car with a DRB III and magnet.

In short, the EZ sensors work just fine. Had my tire shop copied my old sensor IDs this would have been a non-event. I'm thankful that my tires don't have to be dismounted. My new sensor IDs now have a permanent home in my maintenance logs...

Hopefully this saves someone some time in the future.

[Steve-Indy]

Excellent info !!

[Old School]

Sounds like the sensor ID's must be in some particular range or something.

[Steve M]

Totally forgot about this one...thanks for the update!

[Steve-Indy]

SUCCESS at last !!

Steve M, osuaero, and others:

Ryan brought his 2010 Viper to our meeting today, so we could re-try to program his already installed EZ Sensors to his Viper's TPM...which could not be done last Fall using just the DRB III and a magnet as we usually do.


Once I had my DRB III fired up and in the mode to program the module, Ryan activated first the left front sensor with his Bartec which programmed the LF TPS to the TPM normally as did all of the other sensors as we proceeded to the RF, RR, and LR.

He then drove 1.2 miles to confirm the programming success, which turned off the Low Tire light.

This made my day...as the previous failure with this Viper has been pissing me off all Winter !!

Many thanks to Dan and to all of the other posters above who offered advice and solutions !!

[Steve M]

Always a good feeling when you finally succeed, especially if the problem has been lingering for a while.

So if I'm reading this correctly, you use the DRB III to put the car's TPMS module into a mode that will allow you to program the new individual TPMS codes into the module.

Then, instead of activating each TPMS sensor in turn with a magnet as you would have normally done, you activate them in turn with a handheld scanner instead.

Is that correct?

And using this method, you should be able to program both Gen 3 and 4 TPMS modules if you end up swapping in new TPMS sensors?