Since it appears face masks will be around for a while

[ViperSmith]

It’s not a surprise here who thinks wearing a mask makes you a “sheep.” It’s the typical self centered crowd who can’t look beyond their own selfish interests.

Wearing masks reduces the spread up to 5x what it normally is. It isn’t opinion, it is fact and reality.

Masks don’t prevent you from getting sick, they limit the transmission, allowing us to have somewhat normal lives. If everyone did, we’d be back to 90% operating capacity.

If my 6yo can do it and not complain, you grown ass men can do it. But no, you are whiny self entitled babies who believe in stupid conspiracy theories.

But back to the main topic, great idea.

[LuvSpeed]

PIIS0140673620311429.pdf

I will throw my 2 cents in here since there seems to be a bunch of hyperbole going on in this thread. For background, I am an ex engineer and currently a practicing physician. I believe in the scientific method and following what science has to say. I will give my opinion based on the best available science known to date. This is the first time trying to attach a link to a post. I hope that it works. The attached link is from the June 2020 medical journal Lancet. Lancet is one of the two main medical journals in the US along with the New England Journal of Medicine. The attached link is a meta-analysis. A meta-analysis is a tool used to try give give a more reliable answer to a question by combining many different studies statistically. This give the study more power or reliability. For instance if I publish a study stating that water wetter works to reduce coolant temps, but it has only ten cars that I tried it on, some people might believe it. However, if my study was combined statistically with 100 other studies of ten cars stating water wetter works, you would be more apt to believe that the water wetter actually works!

This is indeed a very strong meta analysis on the effects of distancing, face masks, and eye wear on reducing transmission rates of viruses. Remember, this is one of the main studies being shown that you should wear face masks. It takes all of the available studies known to date, throws out the bad ones, and combines the better ones to try to give a good answer. Most of the studies were not from COVID-19, but MARS and SARS. I do think that the other MARS and SARS studies are applicable to COVID-19.

However, I am not sure how helpful this is for any public policy making. Here is what I learned from reading the article:

1). The chance of viral infection or transmission goes from 17% to 3% with facemask use of all parties. (table page 7)

2). There is not a high level of certainty of point number one. This certainty level is rated as low. (table page 7)

3). The chance of viral infection or transmission is most effective with N 95 masks, and less effective with surgical masks. (table page 7 and discussed throughout the study)

4). The less effective surgical masks are face masks (eg, disposable surgical
masks or similar reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks). Cotton masks such as the Viper masks have not been studied!

5). At present, there is no data to support viable virus in the air outside of aerosol generating procedures from available hospital studies. (Page 12).


In my opinion, wearing masks probably does not do much. I guess it sure makes us feel better, however it is not based in science. Why do I have this opinion? The article listed is the best meta analysis done in medicine today. In optimal conditions there is low certainty that virus transmission can be reduced 14% if we both wear face masks. We are not experiencing optimal conditions however. How many people are wearing N95 masks? Are we going to wear N95 masks all day long? I have worn an N95 mask all day long in the operating room. When you wear one properly that fits well, it is more difficult to breath. The inside of the mask becomes humid / moist. Have you experienced this with your N95 mask? If not you are probably not wearing it correctly, and it is not as effective. Once they become, moist, etc they should be reprocessed as we do in the hospital or a new one applied. How many people are doing this? The other masks mentioned are surgical masks or 12-16 layer cotton masks. How many interactions are we having with both parties are wearing surgical masks? These at home made masks are not in any of these studies, and probably are significantly less effective.

There is no data showing viable virus in the air outside of aerosol generating procedures(page 12). This is a very important statement. Think about it! Aerosol generating procedures can be coughing and sneezing. Please don't sneeze on each other.

When we first started this pandemic, we were told that there can be asymptomatic carriers running around infecting people for many days. However, world health organization came out last month and stated that asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 is very rare. Since then they have backtracked on that statement to basically say they don’t know anything. The WHO expert clarified her statements stating that the available data based on modeling studies in member countries have not been able to provide a clear picture on the amount of asymptomatic transmission. Timothy Caulfield, a Canadian research chair and health law and policy at the University of Alberta stated “We still don’t have a clear picture from the research community on how much asymptomatic spread is actually occurring. The science is very uncertain and is evolving rapidly.“ If you look up the latest news articles, it will state that asymptomatic spread makes up 50% of the transmission. This is based on "models" and not real scientific studies. The models have been significantly wrong during this whole pandemic. We also know that the death rate has been grossly overestimated. Appears it might 0.6% which is still nothing to sneeze at. However not the original 3-5%. I think that we should make policy recs based on the latest 0.6%.
Also, the recommendations by the experts when this first started was to wash your hands frequently and don’t touch your face. This is assuming contact spread. The primary spread may not be contact, I don’t know. What I do know however, is wearing face mask increases the population touching their face. Is everybody washing their hands after they touch their face mask every time? How many facemasks do you think are being washed frequently? Do we change our face mass every day? If you had COVID-19, it would be a Petri dish of virus. The urine analogy breaks down here. For instance if I wear pants, pee on myself, touch my pee, and then touch you I have actually increased my contact spread. Is it worth it to potentially increase contact spread by wearing a cloth facemask around in public?

My 2 cents. Take it however you want. Feel free to read the study and become informed!

[LuvSpeed]

Wearing masks reduces the spread up to 5x what it normally is. It isn’t opinion, it is fact and reality.

While that statement is true. It goes from 17% to 3% based on the article I presented. The authors of the study don't state it like that. They state the it reduces the chance of transmission 14%. To say it decreases 5X does not give the whole picture and portrays a different picture than reality. If facemask wear decreases the transmission from 2% to 1%, that would be a 100% decrease in transmission! However, would that really mean anything in real life? Remember these are optimal conditions based on N95 masks worn properly, not cloth masks.

[Grcforce327]

[/QUOTE] I work for the city of NY in the Bronx at PSAC2 (Public Safety Access Center) with NYPD, FDNY/EMD and 311. I follow the rules send down to me by folks at 1PP and 9 Metrotech (yes there is a place called 1PP)

Does this make me part of the koolaid drinkers?[/QUOTE]

I thought your wore a mask in New York because of Cuomo's executive order?

[Bill Pemberton]

Moderators please remove the last statement. We have a guest ( Enthusiast ) being rude towards a VOA Member who is daily on the Front Lines ( Whitebeard) and having no compassion or consideration for a State that as seen close to 32,000 deaths. This is uncalled for, inappropriate and mean spirited.

[ViperNC]

Actually I think it is time to lock the thread entirely. Geez... What a shit show. I just wanted to find a cool Viper mask.

[LuvSpeed]

But no, you are whiny self entitled babies who believe in stupid conspiracy theories.

.

I believe in science and like to get down to the data. Bill who is being rude?

[ViperSmith]

I believe in science and like to get down to the data. Bill who is being rude?

No, they are whiny babies who believe in conspiracy theories.

We can debate the efficacy of cloth masks (which are not the same as medical grade, but then again our lazy government hasn’t helped produce them at scale), but the fact is 1st world counties have been donning masks and have had relatively few cases and deaths compared to the United States, which is full of self entitled adults who won’t look beyond their own self interests.

That is reality.

I’ve lost friends to this disease and sorry if I have zero empathy for adults too stupid and too selfish to do one minor thing in their lives to help others.

[LuvSpeed]

We can debate the efficacy of cloth masks (which are not the same as medical grade, but then again our lazy government hasn’t helped produce them at scale), but the fact is 1st world counties have been donning masks and have had relatively few cases and deaths compared to the United States, which is full of self entitled adults who won’t look beyond their own self interests.

That is reality.

I’ve lost friends to this disease and sorry if I have zero empathy for adults too stupid and too selfish to do one minor thing in their lives to help others.

Hard to have a debate without facts. Which first world countries have a lower death rate due to cloth masks wearing and not other factors? I would not even want to debate cloth level mask studies. The best available data to date shows there is a low level of certainty that N95 mask wear reduces transmission 14%. Cloth masks have to be less effective. Sorry for your loss. Public cloth mask wearing has nothing to due with it though.

[Grcforce327]

Moderators please remove the last statement. We have a guest ( Enthusiast ) being rude towards a VOA Member who is daily on the Front Lines ( Whitebeard) and having no compassion or consideration for a State that as seen close to 32,000 deaths. This is uncalled for, inappropriate and mean spirited.

Facts don't care about feeling! Neither does freedom of speech.

[Bill Pemberton]

Luvspeed . talking about Grcforce327 -- guest with 9 posts and completely inappropriate to harangue about the State that has 32,000 deaths and Whiteboard is on the Front Lines as a First Responder. Agree with NC , close the thread and ridiculous how hateful folks are getting instead of coming together here as fellow Viper owners.

[City]

Actually I think it is time to lock the thread entirely. Geez... What a shit show. I just wanted to find a cool Viper mask.

My thoughts exactly. And now I have permission.