Fixing DBW throttle lag/response

[efnfast]

The most disappointing part of my Viper has always been the throttle lag - heads/cam/headers/exhaust/tune never felt like 700tq - and I always felt if I'd test driven it before I bought it I'd never have bought it because of that poor response.

The Gen5 guys were raving about the TKO DBW adjuster so I installed it today
https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...ottle-Off-Idle
https://tkomotorsports.com/product/2...ttle-response/

This is a-w-e-s-o-m-e

Set around 30-40% all of the lag is gone and it drives like cable throttle - instant response, feels like 700tq, etc.

This is how the car should have come from the factory.

If you have an Gen4 and hate the throttle lag/response, buy the TKO unit .... it's plug and play, 5 minutes to install, and a-w-e-s-o-m-e-n-e-s-s. Literally the best mod I've done to my Viper.

[Steve M]

Agreed. Installed mine earlier this year when the weather was still garbage:



I've been very pleased with this purchase, and love that you can go from mild to wild with just the turn of a knob.

[13COBRA]

Agreed. I love mine as well. Huge improvement!

[Baked]

Do you guys know what the difference is between the Pro and the quick track version?

[Steve M]

Do you guys know what the difference is between the Pro and the quick track version?

I think it is just the bracket...the pro version is intended for a permanent install (hence the bracket you see in my pic above), and the quick track version is intended to be quickly installed/uninstalled as needed. I don't like the thought of stuff flopping around near my gas pedal, so I went with the pro version, simply because I wanted the bracket. I'm sure you can do something sufficient with industrial strength velcro if the thought of drilling into your trans tunnel doesn't appeal to you.

[13COBRA]

Correct Steve.

The bracket makes it more permanent. That's what I have as well.

[efnfast]

I think it is just the bracket...the pro version is intended for a permanent install (hence the bracket you see in my pic above), and the quick track version is intended to be quickly installed/uninstalled as needed. I don't like the thought of stuff flopping around near my gas pedal, so I went with the pro version, simply because I wanted the bracket. I'm sure you can do something sufficient with industrial strength velcro if the thought of drilling into your trans tunnel doesn't appeal to you.

I wasn't certain if there was anything behind the tunnel (I have bad luck finding things that shouldn't be in certain places when blindly drilling) so I used the industrial velcro stickies that came with it to mount the bracket to the tunnel, lol

[Steve M]

I wasn't certain if there was anything behind the tunnel (I have bad luck finding things that shouldn't be in certain places when blindly drilling) so I used the industrial velcro stickies that came with it to mount the bracket to the tunnel, lol

I think I wore about a 1/4" off my teeth from gritting them so hard while drilling, and I wasn't going at it blind either - the car was up in the air on jack stands, so I was crawling around and looking at every possible thing I could encounter. Thankfully, it turned out just fine, but man I had that drill going slow, and with very little pressure.

[IndyRon]

What's the consensus on this? Devices like this in the past have just increased the scaling/ramping of the throttle but did nothing for the actual delay between pushing the pedal and engine response. Is this device different?

[Steve M]

What's the consensus on this? Devices like this in the past have just increased the scaling/ramping of the throttle but did nothing for the actual delay between pushing the pedal and engine response. Is this device different?

I still think some of that exists, at least at reasonable levels that are safe to drive around on. It is still a vast improvement over what it was though.

[efnfast]

I've got mine set around 30-40% and I don't notice any delay ... I'm also using Venom ECU, not sure if that's improved over stock or not.

I took it out for a more extended drive today and am 110% satisfied with the purchase - this is how the car should drive from the factory.

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Thought the Dick Winkles tune ironed this out or is this another alternative??

[13COBRA]

Thought the Dick Winkles tune ironed this out or is this another alternative??

I'd say it corrects most of it...but the TKO unit takes care of the rest.

I have both on mine, had the tune first...then when you put the TKO unit on it's a world of difference.

[VIPER BAZ UK]

I'd say it corrects most of it...but the TKO unit takes care of the rest.

I have both on mine, had the tune first...then when you put the TKO unit on it's a world of difference.

Thank you,, guess ill go shopping again

[13COBRA]

Thank you,, guess ill go shopping again

You won't regret it, promise.

[Angleiron]

So if this any better than the Arrow performance PCM? My stock throttle had lag, but after switching to the performance PCM all of the throttle lag went away. I know what is being talked about is the cheaper option.

[Steve M]

If you are happy with your throttle response, then this product isn't for you. It certainly doesn't replace a tune since all it does is alter the throttle response, but it can be added on top of one (including the Mopar PCM, Mopar PCM with Arrow Reflash, or HPTuners) if you need/want more. It is also plug and play, and as such is completely reversible. It can also be dialed on the fly using their included adjustment knob.

[Steve-Indy]

I will direct my question (implied suggestion) to Steve M who knows/understands more about this area than I will ever know.

I am wondering why all of the seat of the pants validations of this product aren't backed by objective data recordings of said throttle response improvement ?? While I am not doubting the product itself, it would be easy to present the change in response times up front...which would encourage more product utilization if so documented. Just a thought.

[Steve M]

Good point...let me think about how best to capture that. I can certainly feel it (especially if you start messing with the knob going down the road), but I can't put numbers to it.

At the end of the day, (I think) it does nothing more than cause the throttle bodies to open more over the first part of the pedal travel. You could theoretically achieve the same results by just pushing the gas pedal harder at all times. There is definitely a subjective aspect to this mod that can't be ignored, and I know it isn't all in my head, but I guess I don't really know what they did. It at least doesn't trip any DTCs or throw the car into limp mode, so that's nice.

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks Steve...I know that one could make this very complex. The question is, when and where does the lag occur...i.e. gas pedal position sensor to throttle body sensor?..actuator motor? Or, PCM delay? Etc., etc.

We are talking milliseconds here...might have been fun to see the action on a laptop...like we did with the early wiTECH setup where a whole spreadsheet would dance with a blip of the go pedal.

The good news is that folks seem very happy with a fairly low cost modification.

[Steve M]

I can make the data dance, I just need to find a semi-controlled way to gather it that doesn't skew the results, and then figure out how to display it that makes sense to anyone looking at it. I won't promise a timeline, but I will see what I can do.

[Steve-Indy]

Not trying to make work for you...I actually thought themanufacturer might jump in at some point with some numbers.

[Steve M]

It'd be a good mental exercise for me...it never hurts to dust off some brain cells every once in a while.

[IndyRon]

I'd be willing to bet that the car has at least 200-300msec (almost 1/3 of a second) delay between stabbing the throttle and engine response. I also have the mopar PCM and that makes no difference. If driving even just slightly aggressive, you almost have to power shift the car to get power application with subsequent gear changes. I actually have trained myself to apply throttle before releasing the clutch to ensure power comes on immediately after clutch engagement.

[efnfast]

I'd be willing to bet that the car has at least 200-300msec (almost 1/3 of a second) delay between stabbing the throttle and engine response. I also have the mopar PCM and that makes no difference. If driving even just slightly aggressive, you almost have to power shift the car to get power application with subsequent gear changes. I actually have trained myself to apply throttle before releasing the clutch to ensure power comes on immediately after clutch engagement.

I'd agree - I never felt there was a situation where that lag wasn't present. Supposedly the venom ECU is improved over stock, but if it is I'd hate to see what stock is like.

The TKO DBW adjuster definitely fixed that though ... putting it on 100% is just fvcken LOL, but at 30% it makes the car respond like it should have from the factory (crisp, no lag, instant response).

Being able to adjust it on the fly is fantastic because the first drive I was wondering if it was in my head - turned it off and the laggy POS response was immediately back.