Barrett jackson Predictions

[Bruce H.]

Jon, what you are not accepting is that not every enthusiast that lusts after the TA wants to own a bright or flashy colored Viper. A number of members here have posted that they specifically only wanted to find one of the other colors. You want what you want, and you'll search, wait and pay a premium to get the car and color you want, whether that be orange, white or black. Not everyone feels the need to own the poster colored car, whether that be an LE, TA, ACR or any other. The Viper has always been flashy enough, been very popular in black, and I believe the only color TA's were available in throughout '14 - '17 production, and both white and black were the choice for most of the final year special editions. Many just love the Viper in white, black, competition blue and the full range of colors and could care less about what color the poster car was.

There's been a lot more orange TA's advertised for sale because there's more of them out there, and we've seen the extremes in their asking prices, but there's no evidence that they sell for more on average...feel free to show us otherwise. I'd suggest that the rarity and appeal of the other colors account for their strong values.

[ACRSNK]

As always, it will boil down to supply/demand.

The SE camp believes the demand for SE cars will outstrip the supply of SE cars. The non-SE camp believes the supply will always be too much for the demand.

At BJ 2030, any SE car going across the block will no doubt be announced that it is 1 of 100, or 1 of 28, etc. Without any other information, that sounds amazing. But any savvy bidder thinking of dropping $500k+ on the car will no doubt do some research and see that there are numerous SE editions. Determining which edition is "more SE" than any other will be nearly impossible. To date, there does not seem to be any clear preference given the available sales data.

So now the 2030 BJ bidder realizes there are 200 total SE cars, from several SE editions. So why bid up too high if the next one is likely to become available at a lower price?

And the bidder also likely learns that there were also non-SE cars made in extremely small numbers -- indeed, far less than 100 or even 28 identical cars. For some, there is only 1. And now the buyer is truly confused, just like we are today, and most likely discounts his bidding for an SE car accordingly because the last thing he wants to hear at the local C&C is that the guy that pulled up in the stryker purple with silver stripes car has the only one ever produced. What a kick in the pants!

And that is why I believe SE cars will always do well, and stay at the top of the range but will not substantially distance themselves from the top 20 percent of the 1-of-1's.

I'll give you this, you are very persistent at trying to prove your point. Only problem is not many agree with you. You seem to equate rare with value and that's not always the case. Fact....there are many "rare" cars that are worthless. Why? Because nobody wants them. Certainly not the case with ACR's. The model itself is extremely rare relatively speaking at around a thousand units over two years. For all the reasons already discussed at length the ACR will continue to be sought after. Most looking for these cars will likely want one of the SE cars, even though collectively they make up a significant portion of the total therefore commanding a premium over the rest. There will always be the outlier that wants what they want and is willing to pay for it, but that does not determine, or create the market for that car. it just means that one person was willing to throw some cash at that particular car and at the end of the day if there is not another person like them that likes that car as much as they do when it comes time to sell they will take a significant hit in "value". I firmly believe that the SE cars are better insulated against future declines in value over the rest of the 1of1's. That's not to say there are not some 1of1's out there that I myslef wouldn't pay more for, because there are, but again, my taste may not be everyone else's taste. What I do know is that one of te most significant premium over MSRP was being paid for the GTSR. Just ask VE. They sold all they had without issue. Finding an SE car is starting to get harder and harder. All the while there are quite a few pretty nice 1of1's for sale. In the end, I think the market will tell us what the cars are worth, which is fine. I didn't get rich off cars and I don't think my GTSR is going to change that for me if/when I decide to sell. I enjoy the car and am actually looking for another one. Guess which one I am looking for.....an orange TA. Why....because despite it not being the most rare of the 3, I still like it. I suppose I would also consider black if the right car popped up, but both of those are certainly not as "rare" as some of the 1of1's and I would still opt for those regardless. I'm sure that a lot of future owners and collectors will continue to appreciate what the factory did with it's SE cars and color schemes, stickers and all. I am also looking for a SnakeSkin ACR if anyone has one for sale

[Viperenvy]

For someone who knows next to zero about Gen V, this is a GREAT learning thread.

What I can add is this....there are forum posts around the similar topic concerning the 1998 GT2 from 2000 forward. Words like rare, numbered, sequential, horsepower, demand, values, antidotal, facts, and auction.

The conversations maintained demand would only increase and values would increase as well.

History as determined that vehicles bought for the range of sticker to $30,000 over have sold for $77,000 to $125,000 with a recent outlier (for the moment) of $108,000 for a 31,000 mile example. The vehicle is at its 22 year market with the earliest one just having its birthday on May 5th at 10AM. It may be the time to finally see the rise in demand that has been expects for 22 years - maybe.

The future will have the final say on history concerning every valid point everyone has made.

Please keep it up - I enjoy learning about all the models. Gen II only has RT/10 and GTS. RT/10 is only color combinations. GTS with GT2, ACR, FE. The raffles are truly 1 OF 1 with zero dispute.

Thank you again for the education

[Scott_in_fl]

One thing we do know is the number of Gen 5 Vipers that will be very low mileage in 10 or 20 years will be substantial. Meaning supply of collectable examples will not be rare.

Excellent point, and also explains the current capped pricing for '05/'06 FGT at the $270k-$300k level. There are always plenty of sub 5k mile cars available. And there must be tons of other bubble cars sitting in garages that are not currently listed.

One important difference though is that there were 4,000 FGT's built in 05/06, and only several hundred ACR-E. So, who knows.

[Policy Limits]

Man I just love value threads....

Gets the juices flowin...

Most proclaim to hate them. However, thousands of views, pages of content & continuing.

Love what I started (OP) LOL

[ViperJon]

One important difference though is that there were 4,000 FGT's built in 05/06, and only several hundred ACR-E. So, who knows.

Yes but the FGT's don't have as many almost sorta FGT's....like regular Gen V ACR's...TA's.....Gen 5's.....Gen IV ACR's...and down the line....32K cars over 25 years.
A lot to pick from if an ACR-E is over budget.

[Scott_in_fl]

LOL, Policy, so true. Everyone hates these threads, yet they are always some of the more popular ones on the forum. The banter is fun, if you can afford the car then you know you're not investing in it, and obviously nobody can tell the future, so all of it is pure mental masturbation.

[Arizona Vipers]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

[ACRSNK]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

You can't be too bad with money as you obviously had / have enough to buy some sick cars!!!

[ViperSRT]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

Math isn't the strong point . 140k at 6% compounded is 335.5k after 15 years. Still more than 280k, but not crazy more.

[Scott_in_fl]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

You'd have approx. $335k after 15 years at 6%. But still, you're point is very valid given the holding costs.

[Bruce H.]

I still find any thread that isn't about the fear of an engine grenading to be truly refreshing

[ViperJon]

Well hopefully you got some great moments of enjoyment out of owning it as well. It's not just about ROI.

[Patentlaw]

Well hopefully you got some great moments of enjoyment out of owning it as well. It's not just about ROI.

Exactly. Respectfully, but people who have "real" money are not looking at everything as a return on investment. They are not eating tuna fish sandwiches so they can afford to buy .005 more shares of a different stock. People buy houses that now are not such a great deal. You can't write off the interest on them and the property tax credit is maxed out. Some times you have to live life some. If the car did not go "down" in value, as well, you still made out compared to the average car that depreciates to practically nothing. It is all in your perspective.

Crap...I could have bought Amazon stock back in 1998 for a fraction of the value today. Does not mean I am somehow diminished in what I decided to do with the money.

[Bryan Savage]

Allow me to opine a moment...

Disclaimer: All bets are off for what I'm saying if the car has been modified.

One thing I liked about the TA when I was shopping for mine was that once that "TA Package" box was checked, that was it. No other options were available except the exterior color. All I had to do was pick what color I wanted. I could shop at Pemberton's Playhouse from 2,000 miles away without worrying that some car I liked was equipped with options I didn't want.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but SE cars are like that. All cars of each SE are the same spec. With a small amount of research, a buyer will know exactly what they get and don't get. There's no need to pour over a window sticker to see what other options were or were not there.

Imagine now, if you will, a 1-of-1. This program catered 100% towards the original buyer and let's face it, probably 0-5% to the second buyer. If you bought a 1-of-1 to your specification, you can't be surprised that when you want to sell it, nobody likes what you like, and you can't get top dollar. How many of you looking for a post-2014 car, find one you think you like and then get soured because it turns out the interior is gross, or not the color you wanted, or didn't have the carbon interior package you like. When you're the second owner, YOUR "1-of-1" may not even exist, so unless you're extremely lucky or not picky, any one you find isn't going to command your top dollar, because you're likely making a compromise of some kind.

Many people knew these when buying theirs, so you tend to see many of the same type. Silver/Black/Red. White/Black/Red. Red/White. Blue/White. Extreme. All Carbon. Full Stereo. Maybe that's what the original person wanted, or maybe that was also the decision they made because they knew a purple & green car with the three-speaker stereo, no rear interior, and the unpainted wing might be a tough sell.

I think it's because of this reasoning that, despite having higher numbers of identical cars produced, the numbered SE cars will ultimately carry more value in the resale market.

[Policy Limits]

LOL, Policy, so true. Everyone hates these threads, yet they are always some of the more popular ones on the forum. The banter is fun, if you can afford the car then you know you're not investing in it, and obviously nobody can tell the future, so all of it is pure mental masturbation.

Right like you don't have 7 figure value already when you drop six figs on a toy. at the right investment % you should be able to double your money every ten years. typically a car just doesn't fall into the category of investment. other times it does. I passed on a 50k Dino because it was yellow. The thing is worth 1/2 mill now. But who has a crystal ball?

Such a win just owning what is usually a depreciating asset and seeing it not depreciating imo.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I think you consider yourself very fortunate if you have any kind of vehicle that retains 50% of it’s original MSRP after 5 years. It seems that most well cared for Vipers may possibly retain 60-75% around 5 years or so unless you have one of the special editions or low production where the sky can be the limit. Investment wise, I think you are better off with a nice growth stock investment fund that doubles every 5-6 years and have other cash or safer investments for the short term. A lot depends on your time horizon. Unless you are a dealer than can make wholesale auto purchases and then sell for retail without the extra cost of sales tax and insurance, then you are better off looking at your toy collection as prized possessions than investments. Gen 5s seem to be pretty solid. Sometimes you get lucky.

[GM_500]

Demand when new means nothing about demand years later. The couldn't give away the Hemi package or Charger Daytona's back when they were new. Many examples of this. Never heard how fast they sold out as a precursor to collectability years later. One thing we do know is the number of Gen 5 Vipers that will be very low mileage in 10 or 20 years will be substantial. Meaning supply of collectable examples will not be rare.

Great points here...
In 15 years, no one will remember that dodge couldn't give away a viper in 2013/14 and resorted to the $15k price cut and voucher.

Also think you're dead on in your second point. We will see more low milage viper come out than we all expect.

You see this a lot on Bring a Trailer, I call it the 'BaT effect.' A collector's example of a vehicle will come up for auction and bring some astronomical price. Then every Tom, Dick and Harry with the same vehicle sitting in their garage decide its time to bring their's our for sale. Instead of fetching the price of that first one, it brings a fraction. In turn, the vehicle loses its luster and people get a glimpse of how many are truly out there. This has probably always been the case, but has definitely become more mainstream since BaT. Sellers become impulsive and BaT's digital platform makes listing much more efficient than getting your car ready to go across a tradition auction block.

[RedTanRT/10]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

AZ, so true!

In addition, it had to also cost another $1,500 to $2,000 per year for Insurance, Registration fees and minimal maintenance.

I bought my '94 G1 in '96 for $41k, I figure its worth a real $30k today, do the math on that one!!!! Buy em and drive em cause you love them!!

[Arizona Vipers]

AZ, so true!

In addition, it had to also cost another $1,500 to $2,000 per year for Insurance, Registration fees and minimal maintenance.

I bought my '94 G1 in '96 for $41k, I figure its worth a real $30k today, do the math on that one!!!! Buy em and drive em cause you love them!!

Yep. And that $622K would be 1.8M in another 10 years LOL. My GT will be worth maybe $400K. lmao

[Cadster]

Quick non-value related tech question, do these Woodhouse special edition versions come with the extreme front splitter as part of the original package? The mega splitter that has the two individual attachments that protrude out of the front lower grill?

[ViperJon]

Quick non-value related tech question, do these Woodhouse special edition versions come with the extreme front splitter as part of the original package? The mega splitter that has the two individual attachments that protrude out of the front lower grill?

Yes they do. They are all ACR-E trims. Some Special Editions have more options (like exterior CF) than others but they all have the Extreme slitter.

[ACRSNK]

Yes they do. They are all ACR-E trims. Some Special Editions have more options (like exterior CF) than others but they all have the Extreme slitter.

All except the one Snake Skin Edition that is a non ACR model.

[Policy Limits]

My front splitter extension and rear diffuser strake extensions are still in bubble rap. Ideal to install if you track it. I have a steep driveway as it is and had race ramps custom design ramps for it.

The 6 Authentic SE cars also came with matching car covers. Did the ACR/TA too or nah? #STICKERGATE

[ViperGeorge]

My front splitter extension and rear diffuser strake extensions are still in bubble rap. Ideal to install if you track it. I have a steep driveway as it is and had race ramps custom design ramps for it.

The 6 Authentic SE cars also came with matching car covers. Did the ACR/TA too or nah? #STICKERGATE

Of course you realize that if you put your splitter extension on your car could no longer be considered a dealer special edition since the factory did not put the splitter on. Splittergate!

And yes my ACR/TA came with an orange car cover.