Barrett jackson Predictions

[ViperGeorge]

Yup, didn't sell.

[CarbonDan]

Still a pretty reasonable showing though, buyer was willing to do about $187k all in for it and there were 3-4 people fighting for it at the end there.

[Scott_in_fl]

No surprise that it did not sell. Worth just holding onto for now.

[Mark1107]

High bid was just shy of $170k, reserve not met.

Seller should have taken it.. that was huuuuuugggggge mistake! He will never see another 170k during the depression pandemic. Once the dust settles the seller will reach out to old buyer who will then offer 150k.

[Mark1107]

I was off by 10k but close. Again the ACR TA is a gorgeous car. The 230k car was an aberration not the standard. Theses cars just arent worth 200k yet. Viper Exchange has a handful between 150-190k they have all sat for a year pre pandemic. Were in a recession now folks.


Interesting. The Ferrari Daytona market corrected after the recession in 2013-2015 Michael Sheehan predicted it and Daytona’s that were selling for a million plus adjusted to 500-700k. (I know apples to oranges) same with 911 Porsche’s and Ford GT 2005-06 especially gulf editions that sold 500-600k are in low 400’s right now. You can find base ford gts for low to mid 200’s after a peak of mid 300k.


“I think I with the current recession the acr TA won’t crack 160,000. Just my prediction. Usually in recessions we see car corrections period. It’s just a tough time for luxury goods. Cash is king right now, including gold and silver.”

[Scott_in_fl]

Market prices for all goods fluctuate daily. Selling goods during a pandemic crisis is not likely to pull top dollar. For speculators, that is not good and they may be forced to take what they can get at so.e point. But most of the desirable cars are with holders that will ride out the storm. Give it 18-24 months and prices will be back to pre-recession highs and even higher.

[ViperJon]

I was all set to buy the wife a new car in late March and then this mess set in. Decided to hold off because a) have no idea where new cars prices will be when the dust somewhat settles and b) we have no where to go right now lol....People are just holding on to the purse strings a lot tighter to see where the economy is mid summer.

[Policy Limits]

Will be short lived period of time. Trump is gonna rebuild the economy a 2nd time. When he does no liberal with a straight face will be able to say that it's due to Obama.

[Bruce H.]

I was off by 10k but close. Again the ACR TA is a gorgeous car.

In what order of desirability/value would you and others rank the '17 factory and dealer editions?

[Oh Three Z]

My top 10 concerning desirability. Across the entire generation

GTSR
Voodoo2
Stryker ACRs
Top 20% of well executed 1of1s
Comp blue anything
Woodhouse
Roanoke
OTA
Black TA
Mine

[Policy Limits]

Not every numbered car will be so valuable. A good example is the launch Edition. Epic car with retro color scheme but 150 units was just too many imo. And that's besides it being the wrong year.

Ordered on opening day with 15k SRT coupon in hand & had the pic of the litter. Ultimately I wanted the one that was the most limited. Every Viper is Special. of the SE cars I think the two SSG ones will be least collectible. The stripes themselves are cool but they flow wrong on the car imo. The 1:28, Vooodo II, GTS-R will all do well. A different number of my car got up to a buck and a half at auction and didn't meet reserve. So I doubt it would ever be worth less than sticker.

The woodhouse sticker slapper is NOT a manufacturer SE car. The Tomball & Roanoke cars are SE from the factory. Read the press releases. There's 6 only. Great car and will be worth great dough but it's more like a solid edition or the like ala a Gerry Wood car. Bill will chime in and say no one knows what they're talking about with respect to the issue when they disagree but it's well documented on here that he refuses to deny that the dealership itself slapped those stickers on there and perhaps contrived an internal Edition out of allocation. Some of that is opinion and some of it is Fact.

The TA will do well too but not like the ACR Extreme Special Edition cars.

[Bill Pemberton]

Here we go again, the Special Dealer Edition done by Dodge for Woodhouse is not legit because a disgruntled Attorney in Connecticut says so. There is an ethical reason I have not answered your silly little sour grapes constant prompting and egging me on. I guess I will have to just be satisfied that the car sold out in less than 2 hours -- actually less , but that was when I told Mark Jorgensen they were all gone. Funny there were cars like yours for sale for months, so I am afraid I will just have to take your whining for years until I can tell the whole story, but it will be worth the wait. In the meantime I will have to just be content with the interest the machines bring whenever they come up and I am afraid there are some Dodge Executives opinions of the car that , for some reason, I find a lot more satisfaction in than your constant derogatory statements.

Seems to me the simple adage is money talks since at only 129+K ( new ) , old Orange brought about 100K more than that with the first one Auctioned . Sure appears almost everyone is pleased but you.

By the way, any reason why , as an Enthusiast you seem to feel the right to complain about your little dislikes on a Viper Forum ---maybe folks would prefer to listen to a Viper owner who was also willing to spend the small sum necessary to be a member? You obviously get alot out of the Forum since you have over 4000+ posts. I sold the crazy things and worked with Dodge and SRT everyday I was at work, often into the night , but I only have 3200+ posts , so I know you have gotten alot of value hanging out here.

[Policy Limits]

It's just so funny !!!

Honestly I love the car you guys came up with. The tires and brakes have street functionality and the paint is to die for. I heard the real reason why the 33 dealer editions went down to 22 units but won't share in the spirit of the ethics that you mention. For someone who doesn't care about comments you sure do come running to answer the bell Billy boy.

The rules do not preclude being an enthusiast and since I've owned both the first and last model years of the final edition of the snake I have a lot to share as said enthusiast. There's much more to come so perhaps you should utilize the block feature.

Happy retirement!

[Bill Pemberton]

I would never presume to know your business as an Attorney as I worked with them for 10 years doing Estate Planning, ( many are still close friends ) yet you constantly think you know all the situations about what happens within a huge Automotive Corporation and the daily changes, negotiations, or input given. I am still a sicko concerning Vipers because I was so insanely passionate about the car I let it consume my life from 99 to 2017. So it gets pretty tiresome when you constantly direct comments on things you absolutely know nothing about - and I do know for a fact what you think you know you don't.

Simple answer, Woodhouse has never divulged or leaked information given to us by those at FCA and whether I work there or not, some things will stay closed until I am given an ok.

Time to move on and retirement will be fun, as more racing ( NASA and SCCA ), more instructing, more VOA Events, and some consulting.

We sold you your first Viper, and now you have a 2017, so like many of us you are very passionate. You obviously see value in posting here, so why not, as a very successful Attorney spend a tiny amount of bread to support this small group's library of Viper Information and future success.

[Arizona Vipers]

It's just so funny !!!

Honestly I love the car you guys came up with. The tires and brakes have street functionality and the paint is to die for. I heard the real reason why the 33 dealer editions went down to 22 units but won't share in the spirit of the ethics that you mention. For someone who doesn't care about comments you sure do come running to answer the bell Billy boy.

The rules do not preclude being an enthusiast and since I've owned both the first and last model years of the final edition of the snake I have a lot to share as said enthusiast. There's much more to come so perhaps you should utilize the block feature.

Happy retirement!

You are poison to this forum. Poison. You live a sad sad life to come on here where everyone hates your guts to talk about how your Viper sits in your garage and how much money it will be worth one day. LOL. If you would have put that $140K into a real investment 4 years ago you'd have $500K. lmfao. Do your co-workers, family and friends know what you post here?

[Mark1107]

In what order of desirability/value would you and others rank the '17 factory and dealer editions?

Order of value and desireability According to ex forum Troll Mark who loves all Vipers! All viper lives matter.


1. GTSR 2017
2. GTSR Nurburgring sticker edition 2017
3. Woodhouse ACR TA
4. SE ACRs 2017s Ssg, tricolors, voodos, 128s.
5. Any 2016 0r 2017 ACR
6. Stryker Red (including One Viper Bites Rosso Fuoco)
7A (tie) Orange TAs
7b. (Tie) Stryker greens
8. Stryker purples
9. TA ebony and ivory’s, Lol.
10. 2013 launch editions.

Cheers!

[ViperGeorge]

There are maybe two guys that know what really goes on with Dodge re the Viper. One is Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse and the other is John Gastman of Roanoke. Yea, Viper Exchange sold a lot of Vipers but they never, in my opinion, had the same connection with Dodge. If Bill or John says "this is the way it is" you can take it to the bank. Maybe you dealt with another Viper dealer including VE but you would not have gotten the same level of insight that you would get from Bill or John.

I know John thought that Bill's vision for the ACR-TA was brilliant. If you don't like the ACR/TA buy something else. I know more of the story on the ACR/TA than probably any of you. I own the first one built, but I won't comment as there are people at FCA that went above and beyond. Bill had the contacts to make it happen. Some people are so hung up on whether the TA sticker came from the factory. I assure you that Bill did not order stickers to slap on the car when the cars arrived at Woodhouse. How f'ing stupid do you think Bill is? Why don't you just accept his word on the amount of work that he had to go through to get the concept approved. Policy Limits do you remember the Gen 4 ACR convertible? This was Bill's vision and these cars are among the most valuable Gen 4s today. Until the demoncrats take over it is still a free country. Policy Limits get a life. End of story.

[ACRSNK]

There are maybe two guys that know what really goes on with Dodge re the Viper. One is Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse and the other is John Gastman of Roanoke. Yea, Viper Exchange sold a lot of Vipers but they never, in my opinion, had the same connection with Dodge. If Bill or John says "this is the way it is" you can take it to the bank. Maybe you dealt with another Viper dealer including VE but you would not have gotten the same level of insight that you would get from Bill or John.

I know John thought that Bill's vision for the ACR-TA was brilliant. If you don't like the ACR/TA buy something else. I know more of the story on the ACR/TA than probably any of you. I own the first one built, but I won't comment as there are people at FCA that went above and beyond. Bill had the contacts to make it happen. Some people are so hung up on whether the TA sticker came from the factory. I assure you that Bill did not order stickers to slap on the car when the cars arrived at Woodhouse. How f'ing stupid do you think Bill is? Why don't you just accept his word on the amount of work that he had to go through to get the concept approved. Policy Limits do you remember the Gen 4 ACR convertible? This was Bill's vision and these cars are among the most valuable Gen 4s today. Until the demoncrats take over it is still a free country. Policy Limits get a life. End of story.

Not to get into this pissing contest but if Woodhouse did not put the TA stickers on those 10 cars was that done at the factory I think that is a question that was never really answered love the car and I almost bought the number nine car as it was offered to me from Bill but I already had my GTSR coming and decided to stick with that instead not sure why answering that simple question is such a big deal Also the Gen IV ACR convertibles were wildly different from what was available if they did the same thing with the ACR TA it hands down would have been the most unique and likely valuable ACR made hands down

[quickster2]

I belong to 3 motorcycle forums, used to be 5 when I had my Harley. Only on this forum do we seem to denigrate each other and our cars so much. Maybe the passion for the cars has to manifest itself elsewhere as well. I'm just glad the car exists and for the many folks I've met so aligned.

[Policy Limits]

Peep the ANTI STICKER SLAPPER!!

LMFBOOOO!!

[ViperJon]

To be perfectly honest if I had to choose over again between my '17 GTS-R and the ACR/TA I'm not sure what I'd do. Pluses and minuses to both choices. Love the heritage and commemorative significance of the GTS-R in Viper history, love the CCB's (for a street car that are amazing. ZERO brake dust and last forever) and love the classic color. But...also loveeeeee the Orange. Couldn't care less about it's "rarity" as orange TA's were the most popular and they made 92 of them. My playtime wrangler Rubi is Punk'N orange and I loved my orange TA. Also love the cloth seats. And well....it was 30K cheaper as well. Really close call for me....

[Racingswh]

I belong to 3 motorcycle forums, used to be 5 when I had my Harley. Only on this forum do we seem to denigrate each other and our cars so much. Maybe the passion for the cars has to manifest itself elsewhere as well. I'm just glad the car exists and for the many folks I've met so aligned.

The new C8 forum over at CF is pretty brutal as well.

For me cars are just the means to an end with that end being having fun with my friends at the track. My Viper ACR-E happens to be the cheapest car I have ever owned in that regard. It's quick enough, it's reliable enough and anything major that has gone wrong has been taken care of by the warranty. Best car purchase I have made to date. It already owes me nothing and what it's worth in 20-30 years may matter to my kids I guess. I am just going to keep having fun on the track with it.

[Scott_in_fl]

Fun question to rate the most likely future collectors among Gen V. Based purely on production numbers and the likelihood that a certain number of cars within each series will become heavily modded, run up with high mileage, damaged/totaled, etc. (certain series more likely than others), I see it as follows:

1. 1:28 cars -- I like the significance of the series (this specific color model actually set records), the color combo is a winner, and the low volume is great with only 28 cars. Sold out in 40 mins. However, I rarely see these cars out or on IG, so most are likely being collected. This means that there will be close to 28 pristine cars available for the aftermarket in the future. Although it has not shown yet, I expect these to eventually be bought and sold only among collectors for large dollars.

2. VooDoo2 -- great series carried over from VooDoo1 prior gen, color combo is awesome, 31 cars, sold out in 2 hours. Can't really identify why it is so good other than the unique stripe (silver with red pinstripe) that could not be replicated. But again, for one reason or another, most seem to be cocooned somewhere in collections as I rarely see any evidence of them in the wild. Likely to transfer only among collectors in the future.

3. ACR/TA -- Regardless of how everyone eventually views this car, either as a factory SE or a very unique and well done 1-of-1 done 10x, it is iconic in its color and TA inspired options. The fact that it took special permission to get accomplished and the influence of some heavyweights internally (which I believe wholeheartedly, and I bet we would all recognize the names of those involved), is mega. These will have nice valuations going forward, but I think they will be somewhat less than what I believe are the 2 most desirable SE cars.

4. Well done 1-of-1's -- I'd say maybe 20% are very well done, but most of those are likely to be true 1 of a kind cars because they are unusual combinations that owners ordered sight unseen. These will likely price very near to the ACR/TA imo. In fact, I see 3 and 4 on this list as nearly a tie. Many of these orders were owners taking a chance and hoping that the car in the metal would look as good as the car they designed on the configurator. We're talking Stryker purple with Snakeskin Green driver's stripe (who would've thunk it, it is awesome), custom silver with blue stripes, etc., etc. The fact that these are 1 of a kind, done by the factory, is huge. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it will take the right buyer to appreciate these cars, but some of these combos are so drop dead gorgeous that they are a hit anywhere.

5. Other SE cars -- starting with GTSR, then snakeskin, then dealer edition, in that order. Without any differentiation between them other than their colors, the value of these cars are likely to be driven mainly by that fact. The GTSR is a heritage car of sorts, but I dislike the relatively high production number at 100 cars (about 15 percent of overall final year ACR-E production), and the fact that the '98 car is really the heritage car. The snakeskin is an amazing color in the real, and the dealer edition is either love it, or hate it.

6. 2014 TA's -- These are going to be huge, from a percentage appreciation perspective. Perhaps even better than the above list. A well cared for, unmodded numbered 2014 TA in black, then orange, then white (all imo), is going to be very sought after 10-20 years out.

7. First Edition -- The color combination is so iconic. Need I say more?

8. All Stryker color cars -- these colors were done beautifully. They should hold nice values from here.

There you have it. My picks.

[ViperGeorge]

Not to get into this pissing contest but if Woodhouse did not put the TA stickers on those 10 cars was that done at the factory I think that is a question that was never really answered love the car and I almost bought the number nine car as it was offered to me from Bill but I already had my GTSR coming and decided to stick with that instead not sure why answering that simple question is such a big deal Also the Gen IV ACR convertibles were wildly different from what was available if they did the same thing with the ACR TA it hands down would have been the most unique and likely valuable ACR made hands down

To me the question of the stickers is silly. I guess I understand that people want to know all of the details on the cars but still. The stickers came from the factory with the car regardless of whether the factory pre-installed them or the dealer did. Most people are missing the point that Woodhouse had to jump through hoops to get these cars made. Remember the GTC program was to create unique cars not 10 of the exact same car. Bill had to get the factory to authorize 10 duplicate GTC cars spec'd with the TA Orange paint (which was then restricted to these cars), the TA interior with orange stitching, and yes steel brakes. The steel brakes might not be for everyone but many of us that track our cars prefer them because they are cost effective. He could have ordered them with CCBs and buyers could have tried to find the parts to convert them to steel but then the cars would have been more expensive. The parts for the conversion to steel probably weren't even available yet from people like Racing Brakes.

In fact I did not originally upgrade my 2015 TA 2.0 to a 2016 ACR because I could not use the CCBs. With the CCBs I had to run 19" wheels in front and there were no "legal" tires that I could buy from Tirerack for the One Lap of America. That is the event I have run the car in for 3 years (and other Vipers for years before). I was not aware that I could get steel brakes until Bill mentioned it with the ACR/TA. In fact an SRT engineer friend who has run One Lap several times for Chrysler told me to avoid the CCBs for One Lap and heavy track use.

Regardless of who installed a sticker on a car (by the way we are talking about a sticker here), the dash plaque clearly spells out what the car is and that was for sure installed at the factory. It is also not unusual for parts to be delivered with the car for the dealer to install. Think radio antennas and hub caps in the old days and think ACR-E splitter and supports for our cars. No one would say that an ACR-E with the splitter installed is not a real ACR because the owner or dealer installed the splitter extension which the factory provided, would they? Wasn't there even previous special edition Vipers (maybe the Pace Car versions in the 90s) that had stickers delivered to the dealer with the car in case the owner did not want to put them on? Not sure about this but I seem to remember something like it.

So bottom line for me is I don't get why some people get so hung up on the sticker. Hell I've actually changed my ACR sticker because I didn't like the red in it on an orange car. The OEM manufacturer of the sticker who a friend put me in contact with made special ACR stickers for me that cut the red out. That company made the stickers including "Stryker" for the front of the ACR as well as the stripes for Challengers and other cars. Is my car no longer an ACR or an ACR/TA because I took off a factory applied sticker and put on a non-standard sticker? Well if it isn't real anymore it doesn't matter as I plan to drive it and have fun especially now that I upgraded the factory engine to a non-factory 9 liter extreme.

To each their own but I can tell you that Bill Pemberton worked his butt of getting these cars approved and it must be discouraging for him to hear people say "well the car isn't real because we don't know who put the sticker on". Truth is that several FCA execs contacted Bill and told him they thought the car was special, I think one even wanted to get one.

[Bruce H.]

Ah the creation of ACR/TA and that decal. Still one of Viper Nations sweet mysteries...and may it ever remain so!

Perhaps the most talked about final year Viper. Whether you think it a dealer special edition or not, you can't deny it is 100% special, and I think celebrating the essence of both record setting Gen 5's simply brilliant!

George, enjoy yours to the fullest. Rack up the miles, smiles and memories all you can and when the time comes to sell there will be a line of enthusiast buyers wanting to own and enjoy your "special interest" Viper even if they don't fit the profile of a serious "collector". Cha-ching, cha-ching baby for 10 lucky owners!