VOA Membership Why are YOU not contributing

[FrankBarba]

I was a Paying Contributor (Ad Supporter) for the VOA. I can tell you that if i relied on
this site for my transport business I'd go broke. I do what I can when I can. I attended
the Carlisle Show, I've tried to do some of the Track Time that different Regions Host,
most of the time my schedule is full.

[mauricev10]

x2 A challenger ad is the last thing I want to see

I would like to see more of what can be done to find obsolete parts. The Pirelli order was a great move by the club, would like to see more move like this

Dodge tries to support VOA by (paying) to advertise in the magazine. They don't make a Viper anymore. What would you suggest they advertise?

We try to promote replacement parts that are being made whenever they become available such as the IPSCO P/S pump pulley in our What's New section. We followed up with a "how to install it" article. The next issue features several parts that Temple Performance is working on. If anyone wants to submit material, we'll work with you to get it published. Unfortunately, there aren't many techs who will take photos and write up how-to tech articles.

[ViperTony]

Unfortunately, there aren't many techs who will take photos and write up how-to tech articles.

I noticed this because almost every tech article is written by you. If the tech team needs 'donor' Vipers for how-to articles I'm sure many of our members will be happy to oblige.

[str5010]

For those that provided feedback specifically on the contents of Viper Quarterly - have any of you submitted articles?

I too wanted to see something a little different from the norm so I submitted an article related to my personal interest which is Viper motorsports history/track experience. I was asked to contribute a couple more following the first. Maybe they weren't your cup of tea or were missed on your quick flip through the pages. It's important to realize though that the bulk of the content comes from regular people volunteering their time, not paid writers. Feel free to contribute something that sparks your interest.

[mauricev10]

I noticed this because almost every tech article is written by you. If the tech team needs 'donor' Vipers for how-to articles I'm sure many of our members will be happy to oblige.

I've asked several members for articles, but other than Dan Cragin, no one has contributed. Submitting an article is not as simple as you might think. You have to take quality photos WHILE you are working and be able to explain it in comprehensible English. We are barely get Tech Tips from our Tech Team because they are busy trying to earn a living, not donate their time to the club. I'm not a tech, I just wrench on my own Vipers, so whenever I do a project, I turn it into an article so I can share my experience with others. Perhaps YOU would like to submit something. I'm more than happy to help you get it published.

[ViperTony]

Perhaps YOU would like to submit something. I'm more than happy to help you get it published.

Been there done that. Used to do articles for the old magazine. Did a number of How To's here as well. Maybe YOU forgot that or perhaps forgot about my help with the club? Try looking in the How To section here, many have contributed lots of ideas for technical articles that can reach members that don't frequent the site.

[mauricev10]

[QUOTE=Angleiron;402810]

If you bought a Viper to make friends then that is your prerogative. This magazine should have articles about what the future holds for part availability.

Why are there no articles about how to set up for the track? Race results were Vipers are being raced? Problems to look out for the cars that could have a part problem down the road because FCA bailed on us, and what the possible options are now. You don't have to like my take on things as to me there is a great disservice when 90% of a magazine is fluff when there are more important issues that the VOA should be helping with for the membership.

I do not need to be lectured about what you like, and because I do not like the same things you do in a car specific magazine that I am partially paying for that I am wrong.

-------

While I agree with your concern about parts that are hard to find, I'm not sure what you expect in an article about what the future holds for parts availability. Speculation that they will become hard to get and cost a lot? You already know that. When we found out about the shortage of Pirelli tires, we took action and were able to get Pirelli to manufacture a batch.

We highlight replacement parts that are made by the aftermarket whenever we are made aware of them in the What's New section or the How-to section (e.g. VQ 6 IPSCO P/S pump. VQ16 featured replacement fan modules, VQ 17 highlighted replacement heater box seals, and the next issue covers Temple Performance's Gen II B-pillar stanchions and rear window seals for RT/10's.) We are happy to highlight replacement parts as they become available and encourage you to let us know if you see something.

As far as track articles, we VQ5 featured an article about setting up an ACR for track use by Todd Solomon, and VQ17 and 18 featured a 2 part article by Viper Tech Dan Cragin on suspension setup for the track. And even though it was a club event, the Tire Tech session article in VQ21 shares the tire information we learned from the Pirelli rep with all members.

Realize only 10-20% of club members are interested in tracking. The majority of members enjoy the social activities, so we try to proportion our coverage to meet those audiences. As you noted, people belong to this club for different reasons and have different interests, so we try to cater to ALL the interests.

[mauricev10]

Been there done that. Used to do articles for the old magazine. Did a number of How To's here as well. Maybe YOU forgot that or perhaps forgot about my help with the club? Try looking in the How To section here, many have contributed lots of ideas for technical articles that can reach members that don't frequent the site.

Tony Perrugini? Sorry. Didn't forget, just didn't recognize your avatar. ��

[AM.MSCL]

Realize only 10-20% of club members are interested in tracking. The majority of members enjoy the social activities, so we try to proportion our coverage to meet those audiences. As you noted, people belong to this club for different reasons and have different interests, so we try to cater to ALL the interests.

During 2019 I reached out to past VOA members that I could get find a phone number for and over half of the people that did answer the phone, told me the VOA has 0 benefit for them because their number 1 reason for owning a viper was going to the track.
The items of what I heard were of the following:
- No coverage of folks that do Road course at the grassroot level
- No organized HPDE
- No organized National Track Insurance
- Better discounts through sancontion regional groups/clubs/organization for tires and safety equipment

I know that as a National club of 1700-2000 members a year that trying to get National Track Insurance policy offerings does not make any sense and compared to Chevrolet that does if to the Camaro and Corvette owners that have several 100,000 owners to join the pot.

A possible idea of how to start attracting these members back and keep those that do grassroot track events is to cover some of the events that our members attend. This may not be tech on how to setup the car for each road course or the drag strip but if more folks see this then maybe more would consider taking the time to right and article about what they have done to prep their Viper and their experience on course.

I have attended 2 Regional Events that Dick W. attended, 1 private event and 1 public event that Ralph G. attended in Texas over the past 8 years. The #1 thing about both of these Viper legends is their love for talking about the Viper; the history, the technology, the engineering, production and yes even racing. I realize they are not going to be able to submit an article every quarter but maybe consider some past interviews or things they have published as a Viper History section.

For my region it is not easy to try and grow membership because Viper owners don't want to go to a parking lot for a show or just hang out with all the other cars on Saturday night. When I do see them they are racing at the track or driving their Viper on the road somewhere. I have most new to owning a Viper reach out to my club via Facebook or Friend of a Friend on Facebook because they know I have a Viper and am active.

It is not just that folks felt like the VCA explosion is the reason from being a paying member; but lot of folks have been burned by other clubs that do membership also. Most relate $ to some form of politics and don't want to be near it for a car passion.

[ViperTony]

Tony Perrugini? Sorry. Didn't forget, just didn't recognize your avatar. ��

Yes sir. No worries here. Feel for you on those articles. If I can come up with anything on a.write up I'll let you know. There's a story behind the wrap on my ACR. I'll send you the details.

[ACR-ISH]

I choose to contribute to the larger community by documenting the issues I've run into on my own Viper with detailed, picture-heavy posts made available to all. If you insist that that is a paid membership perk only, then I'll happily remove all of my content and move on. My time is valuable, and to date, I have given it to this forum freely. But as we have seen in this thread alone, value is in the eye of the beholder, and clearly there are others that value the social aspect more. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's just not my thing, at least not at this stage of my life.

These threads come up on a fairly regular basis, and I can only ask why? Why all of these desperate pleas for membership generated revenue? I can assure you, denigrating "enthusiasts" is a bad approach if you are looking to shore up your financials - telling us that we're being selfish, and that $115 is nothing is off-putting. While both may be at least partially true, we all have different priorities in life, and me helping fund yours isn't in my best interest. It's not that everyone is out to get you; it's that everyone is for themselves. That's just human nature.

My $0.02.

Good feedback, Steve. I also think it's awesome you choose to document and share your experiences with others, that's a HUGE reason I joined this forum before buying. So many good places to ask questions and get answers! So a huge thank you for that.

Drama? No... Let's be fair here. ANYTHING involving people and opinions has drama. This is an open forum, so there is bound to be those who don't see eye to eye. However, it doesn't - in my opinion - take away from the benefits of this forum, as it obviously doesn't stop you from posting, am I right? You cannot control how others react, only react yourself as appropriately as possible. If we all do that, drama is down to a minimum.

As far as desperate for money? Not a bit! No one asked me to write, and I wasn't out begging for memberships with my tail between my legs like a hungry puppy. My title is pretty spot-on... "Why arent YOU contributing?" I started it to get answers. I want to know why people will use something with no obligation to pay for it's existence. Be it large or small amounts. I can tell you first hand that since we are a non-profit organization, the focus is on NOT making money, and just breaking even. If we make too much, it becomes a "business." Right now it is simply an organization, and we aim to break even. Northern CA made under $300 all in last year, and gave away thousands in discounted events. That was the goal. Keep a pad, break even. This year we will be subsidizing several events to make them more attractive and less profitable to avoid bringing in more than we need.

Again; my goal is simply to get feedback, and we've received a TON! You obviously use the forum, post, and do it for some sort of reason. So there is some sense of belonging and membership. Me saying $115 is off-putting when we own cars well into the triple digits and parts we can barely get... okay I'll bite on that, too, and we can agree to disagree about how staggering that cost actually is. So my question to you becomes: Do we need to consider a lesser fee? People who want to contribute but dont necessarily need the magazine and the foo-foo extras? Something less substantial so you're keeping the forum running but not feeling gouged for minimal return?

Thanks again for all the feedback! It helps us grow and improve. It's all about leadership listening to it's member; and then ACTING on the feedback. Hold us accountable, sir!

[ACRSNK]

Happy to contribute this is an amazing club especially the New England Chapter 😃

[Steve M]

Again; my goal is simply to get feedback, and we've received a TON! You obviously use the forum, post, and do it for some sort of reason. So there is some sense of belonging and membership. Me saying $115 is off-putting when we own cars well into the triple digits and parts we can barely get... okay I'll bite on that, too, and we can agree to disagree about how staggering that cost actually is. So my question to you becomes: Do we need to consider a lesser fee? People who want to contribute but dont necessarily need the magazine and the foo-foo extras? Something less substantial so you're keeping the forum running but not feeling gouged for minimal return?

That might be worth considering, but in my mind, if I'm contributing to the forum by answering questions and posting how-to's (i.e. giving my time for free), why would I want to pay for that? I realize that keeping servers up and running isn't free, but I post on plenty of other forums that don't require me to pay to do so - granted, they generally generate revenue from advertising and site sponsors, which we don't have much of in the Viper world. If I have to pay to be able to help others with the things I've learned along the way, I'll likely just not post anymore. I have a feeling the other "enthusiasts" would also feel that way if asked to pay any amount. Look at what happened to Photobucket - they tried to make people pay for something that up until that point was free. I don't know how many users they lost, but it was significant.

I do what I do because I genuinely enjoy helping others with their problems. It saves people time and aggravation. I consider that a contribution, but clearly others don't. If the VOA can't afford to maintain a forum without user contributions (and I'm specifically talking about money here), then put a price on it and see what the market will bear.

[98intrigue]

Alex M. told me recently he does not have the time to put into your region and is looking for help. Perhaps you could consider pitching in and re-energizing the CFL region rather than throwing in the towel and walking away. The club is comprised of members who help put events together and enjoy each other's company.

Hi Beth,

I had the opportunity to meet you and the Houston group in April 2019 when I was picking up my Arrow H/C car done by Viper Exchange. I had a great time with your group and you all welcomed me with open arms. The sad fact is that the Houston club event I attended matches the number of times I've attended CFL club events. I've been a paid member for 5 years and have attended 1 CFL club event (back in November 2015 I believe). I can think of 2 events held in Orlando that I was unable to attend (which might not even have been affiliated to the club), but that's all that comes to mind. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple, but it's sad that I may be able to count the number of CFL events hosted in the last 5 years on 1 hand.

I expressed interest in coordinating events for the Tampa area, but never heard back from Alex. Since I know a large group of owners in the Tampa area, I've coordinated events on my own with them. It would be great to revitalize the CFL region, but since I've never been involved with the board I wouldn't know where to start. I'm open to suggestions though! PS This isn't a knock on Alex since the club is more than 1 person.

[mauricev10]

I keep joining because I own 2 Vipers, and that is the ONLY reason as I try to support the cause. To me the magazines are a waste of time as other than the page or two devoted to tech stuff it is all worthless fluff. If a club has a ride then post the pics on the VOA facebook site as I could careless about that in the magazines. Where are any articles about issues that we are going to face (if not already facing) about tires, parts, etc.? Where are there any articles about known problems, what to watch out for, etc.? Where are the how to articles on things that improve the car and that could avoid problems? Where are there driving tips for the track, road, etc? That would make the magazine worth saving/holding onto and I would feel I was getting something back for being a member.

Great suggestions: Read the Buyers Guide series of articles for known problems for in each generation. We've published several articles on how to prevent known problems like the failing power steering pump pulley or shortage of tires, and comparing Michelins to Pirellis. The Tech Tips from our Tech Team also address common problems and what to do about them. Also several articles on track set up, but not driving instruction. That's something that you have to take a class on (or would fill a book.) Bear in mind, this is not a tech manual, the majority of people don't work on their cars. They're here for the social aspect of the club, which is why we cover so many activities. But we try to provide something for everyone.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

If VOA took my implied advice embedded above, you would create SOME WAY for enthusiasts and 'Homeless' Owners to donate something to the forum they use, appreciate, and care about. As it is, the minimum participation level is $115. The next is $150. The current "newbee" is more likely to be buying a Gen 1-2 and can barely afford new tires. Really! I talk to those 4-5-6--owner used viper buyers almost daily. They are the 5th-7th owner. They ask for advice here, seek budget-driven solutions, and appreciate answers and support. They might pay something.


A Supporter-Donor forum member would NOT include a magazine, event insurance (!) or VOA bennies. Just a cozy-warm-fuzzy 'Supporter' AVATAR perhaps? Start at $25 or $50? Offer a menu: $25; $50; $75; $100+ for bronze-silver-gold-Diamond Avatars as "FORUM SUPPORTERs" ?


I think quite a few Enthusiasts / Homeless Owners might donate.
Some few might also stop paying $115 dues and pay $25. But they would not get a costly mag or other un-needed bennies. Perceived Value is the topic, right?

[1ststrike]

Thanks for the question. I think we will be able to get some insite that we are missing, to draw in more members from your questions. It certainly is not the cost, I agree. I enjoy being an active member! I have made some of my best and life long friends because of this Group of Car lovers VCA early on and the VOA since it's inception to today.
I believe we are going to have to allow future members to attend some events (select events) to help draw them in.
Thanks so much for putting your questions out there.

[01sapphirebob]

I believe we are going to have to allow future members to attend some events (select events) to help draw them in.

This aspect already exists. At least on a regional level. In the two regions i've been a part of we have allowed non-member/viper owners to come to an event or two to check us out. Sometimes it results in a new member and other times we never see them again. It's just how it goes.

[Patentlaw]

If VOA took my implied advice embedded above, you would create SOME WAY for enthusiasts and 'Homeless' Owners to donate something to the forum they use, appreciate, and care about. As it is, the minimum participation level is $115. The next is $150. The current "newbee" is more likely to be buying a Gen 1-2 and can barely afford new tires. Really! I talk to those 4-5-6--owner used viper buyers almost daily. They are the 5th-7th owner. They ask for advice here, seek budget-driven solutions, and appreciate answers and support. They might pay something.


A Supporter-Donor forum member would NOT include a magazine, event insurance (!) or VOA bennies. Just a cozy-warm-fuzzy 'Supporter' AVATAR perhaps? Start at $25 or $50? Offer a menu: $25; $50; $75; $100+ for bronze-silver-gold-Diamond Avatars as "FORUM SUPPORTERs" ?


I think quite a few Enthusiasts / Homeless Owners might donate.
Some few might also stop paying $115 dues and pay $25. But they would not get a costly mag or other un-needed bennies. Perceived Value is the topic, right?

One says too expensive.....

Thanks for the question. I think we will be able to get some insite that we are missing, to draw in more members from your questions. It certainly is not the cost, I agree. I enjoy being an active member! I have made some of my best and life long friends because of this Group of Car lovers VCA early on and the VCA since it's inception to today.
I believe we are going to have to allow future members to attend some events (select events) to help draw them in.
Thanks so much for putting your questions out there.

One says it is certainly not the cost...

Looks like an issue to me

[Steve M]

One says too expensive.....

One says it is certainly not the cost...

Looks like an issue to me

I feel like it is less about the cost, and more about the value.

[outnumbered]

I think the answer here lies with a little due diligence. One could look at several sites dedicated to vehicles that are now out of production, but seem to still be very active. NHTOC (Harley Truck site), NLOC (Lightning owner site) and the Buick Grand National site still draw members. Most have evolved into what some have mentioned here as forums dedicated to finding parts and addressing repairs. Some charge fee's and some don't. The point is that what most forum members want can easily be found on other sites with similar circumstances.

[Mopar'er no car]

Thank You to the VOA, The Officers, The Members and most important, VIPER.

I dont fit in the normal Viper demographic and I never though I'd be an actual club member. To ME Viper guys were always HUGE douch bags, easy to spot from across the parking lot with their penny loafers and polo shirts. Quick to turn a nose to someone that clearly (in their eyes) had less money than they did. Being a HUGE Viper kid (Viper kid= all about Viper since the beginning) I would constantly run into these quality individuals. I couldn't really fit properly in a Viper, had some Mopars and eventually bought a Ram srt10. I ran into the Ohio VOA club at Norwalk 5 years ago. I was blown away by their hospitality, even most of the guys in Polo shirts and Penny loafers were cool. In talking with one of the members, I sat in his 06 coupe and actually almost FIT. Found out on HERE that there were a few vendors selling seat lowering kits. 2 weeks later I was driving my 06 Coupe home from Roanoke. Signed up with the Ohio club that week. I walked into the Ohio Good Ole Boys Show of Power that eventually spawned one of the best regions of the VOA, The Western Reserve. From Track events, cruises, themed parties, Historoical landmarks, winery and distillery tours I believe we have an event for everyone. Its brought my better half and I closer, she looks forward to some of the events just as much if not more than i do. We now have a Viper Family and surely have forged some life long friendships.

Give the $115 to the VOA for the people that work hard and free to make this the ONLY Viper community.

Give the $115 to keep the legacy of the car alive, look around the VOA is doing it the best.

[SNKEBIT]

Thank You to the VOA, The Officers, The Members and most important, VIPER.

I dont fit in the normal Viper demographic and I never though I'd be an actual club member. To ME Viper guys were always HUGE douch bags, easy to spot from across the parking lot with their penny loafers and polo shirts. Quick to turn a nose to someone that clearly (in their eyes) had less money than they did. Being a HUGE Viper kid (Viper kid= all about Viper since the beginning) I would constantly run into these quality individuals. I couldn't really fit properly in a Viper, had some Mopars and eventually bought a Ram srt10. I ran into the Ohio VOA club at Norwalk 5 years ago. I was blown away by their hospitality, even most of the guys in Polo shirts and Penny loafers were cool. In talking with one of the members, I sat in his 06 coupe and actually almost FIT. Found out on HERE that there were a few vendors selling seat lowering kits. 2 weeks later I was driving my 06 Coupe home from Roanoke. Signed up with the Ohio club that week. I walked into the Ohio Good Ole Boys Show of Power that eventually spawned one of the best regions of the VOA, The Western Reserve. From Track events, cruises, themed parties, Historoical landmarks, winery and distillery tours I believe we have an event for everyone. Its brought my better half and I closer, she looks forward to some of the events just as much if not more than i do. We now have a Viper Family and surely have forged some life long friendships.

Give the $115 to the VOA for the people that work hard and free to make this the ONLY Viper community.

Give the $115 to keep the legacy of the car alive, look around the VOA is doing it the best.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Pretty much this, people I've met are like family now and I don't know how I will ever repay that kindness................. So, I pay the dues. Not necessarily for the content but to give something back to the members that made the local group what it is today. Small price for the endless friendship that'll be there long after the car is forgotten.

[J TNT]

Thank You to the VOA, The Officers, The Members and most important, VIPER.

I dont fit in the normal Viper demographic and I never though I'd be an actual club member. To ME Viper guys were always HUGE douch bags, easy to spot from across the parking lot with their penny loafers and polo shirts. Quick to turn a nose to someone that clearly (in their eyes) had less money than they did. Being a HUGE Viper kid (Viper kid= all about Viper since the beginning) I would constantly run into these quality individuals. I couldn't really fit properly in a Viper, had some Mopars and eventually bought a Ram srt10. I ran into the Ohio VOA club at Norwalk 5 years ago. I was blown away by their hospitality, even most of the guys in Polo shirts and Penny loafers were cool. In talking with one of the members, I sat in his 06 coupe and actually almost FIT. Found out on HERE that there were a few vendors selling seat lowering kits. 2 weeks later I was driving my 06 Coupe home from Roanoke. Signed up with the Ohio club that week. I walked into the Ohio Good Ole Boys Show of Power that eventually spawned one of the best regions of the VOA, The Western Reserve. From Track events, cruises, themed parties, Historoical landmarks, winery and distillery tours I believe we have an event for everyone. Its brought my better half and I closer, she looks forward to some of the events just as much if not more than i do. We now have a Viper Family and surely have forged some life long friendships.

Give the $115 to the VOA for the people that work hard and free to make this the ONLY Viper community.

Give the $115 to keep the legacy of the car alive, look around the VOA is doing it the best.

Great Post and yes Western Reserve along with other Regional Clubs take a Top Tier Approach toward member involvement and events . But there is also a lot of people working behind the scenes that make it seem easy ..........
And with out some working capitol I suspect some events would not get off the ground .

Debating is good and volunteering to help out with events is even better , to bring the passion back to the enthusiast level.

[RacerJRP]

I joined because I've wanted to be a Viper owner for 25+ years, and when I finally realized that dream in spring of 2019, I wanted to support the only club around that provides an active, knowledgeable community for the car, and I happen to get a super cool magazine to read through a few times per year. Most here can blow $115 in a single night out "just because" and not think twice. $115 yearly to VOA is money well spent IMO.

That all said... I joined the club in November, and just realized I have not received my member packet, gift, ID cards, or the key fob I ordered...Will need to reach out to the club. I've also not received a single communication from the regional club since joining VOA, nor did I receive a reply from the president of that regional club when I emailed him directly ahead of my purchase last spring. Definitely an area for improvement.

For those of you that page through your magazine once, and never look at it again...I need a few back issues... VQ 19, 20, and 21. Happy to pay postage if you'd like them out of your way!