Searching for a Gen V

[Cheme1985]

What are everyones thoughts on a gallardo? It is in the same ball park price wise. I have a feeling asking this on a viper forum will equate to duh go buy a viper with the inverse happening on a lambo forum. Lol

[Scott_in_fl]

If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

[Gen5snake]

Here are two really nice options on both sides of the spectrum.

A nice low mileage (6,100 miles) SRT with factory Aero. $79,888 I like it when you see options like Aero ordered from the factory.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=540931136

ab6aab1f1a9744e1b7b5b12eeb0cc107.jpg

And for the other side of the spectrum....my dream viper. 127 miles GTC with ACR/TA options. $183,900 (these usually go for a lot more)

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=539637984

0f56a6e098f541b3934240e2de5ed187.jpg

[Cheme1985]

I imagine Houston probably has more than 1 reputable Lambo shop. I would be very surprised if we don't. I would just need to figure out who that is first of course.

If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

[Cheme1985]

Both great looking cars. I'm specifically looking for a base for two reasons. To keep my spend in line with my budget and because I don't think I've ever left a vehicle stock. I just couldn't bring myself to mod that ACR/TA. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and for sure the pitchfork mob would come out. lol

I'm trying to keep it somewhat more local at the moment to make the logistics of inspecting the cars, etc a bit easier on myself, but may have to expand my radius in the near future if I don't find anything that grabs my attention.

Here are two really nice options on both sides of the spectrum.

A nice low mileage (6,100 miles) SRT with factory Aero. $79,888 I like it when you see options like Aero ordered from the factory.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=540931136

ab6aab1f1a9744e1b7b5b12eeb0cc107.jpg

And for the other side of the spectrum....my dream viper. 127 miles GTC with ACR/TA options. $183,900 (these usually go for a lot more)

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=539637984

0f56a6e098f541b3934240e2de5ed187.jpg

[Gen5snake]

Both great looking cars. I'm specifically looking for a base for two reasons. To keep my spend in line with my budget and because I don't think I've ever left a vehicle stock. I just couldn't bring myself to mod that ACR/TA. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and for sure the pitchfork mob would come out. lol

I bought a base for those reasons....plus it's the lightest, I love the .63 6th gear ratio and can't forget the 6 vent hood. There's a bunch on here that don't mind tinkering with rare variants of these cars...I personally could never do it. The red one is definitely getting me to sweat a little. It's not far away. The old lady would kill me....a death by a 1000 cuts. They would be deep cuts too.

[Cheme1985]

Another touchy subject. Difference in perceived values vs nada values? Why does such a large spread exist? For instance nada says a base 2013 srt viper average sales value is $55,400 as of checking right now. They can’t just pull those values out of thin air right?

[StrokerAce]

I wouldn't mind a base but a GTS or GT is more what I would like for the creature comforts, if you can call them.

At the end of the day I like them all and if I get a smoking deal on one I will buy it.

[IHOP]

Another touchy subject. Difference in perceived values vs nada values? Why does such a large spread exist? For instance nada says a base 2013 srt viper average sales value is $55,400 as of checking right now. They can’t just pull those values out of thin air right?

Limited production car, several being totaled and the fact the car is not being produced anymore are a few reasons. Oh and more and more parts being hard to find.

[Cheme1985]

That's certainly 1 possible explanation. Does anyone know how Nada comes to the valuations they post? This is what i've seen banks/credit unions use for LTV ratios so it has to have some basis right? I'm not saying I agree with the numbers, but just wondering why such a spread exists.

My cursory glance at the Nada for Gallardos vs what is listed for sale on cargurus and autotrader seems to have a smaller delta for some reason. Same sort of exotic market or least with potential buyer crossover between and I believe less Gallardos were made per year than vipers, but that data may be wrong (I read it on the internet so it must be true right?).

Limited production car, several being totaled and the fact the car is not being produced anymore are a few reasons. Oh and more and more parts being hard to find.

[Bruce H.]

You're trying to compare wholesale prices with retail market prices, with dealer shipping, reburb costs, profit, ect being the difference. Not sure you can compare what's going on with Gallardos but their desirability may not be what the Gen V's is, either way apples to oranges. And the market varies from one part of the country to another.

At the end of the day a buyer needs to evaluate the market that they are shopping in and make their own assessment of value based on the cars they see, not some average. If wholesale values limit your ability to get financing then that sucks. Dealers can often finance higher amounts and that may be a better option than buying privately.

[Cheme1985]

I never said I was financing the vehicle. I'm not. I simply stated that financial institutions use Nada for LTV ratios for loans so that value data can't just be made up right? It has to have some basis in fact from somewhere. Does Nada state that those values it uses are wholesale values only and not retail values somewhere that I missed?

And if they have a lot of wholesale transactions they use for this then where are all these cars at these prices? I'll gladly pick up a few. lol

For reference I wasn't limiting my search of postings of Gen V's to just my area when I looked at the data. I looked across the entire country to get a better picture.

Long story short it's a touchy subject like I said because everyone (I think) has that emotional attachment to (for many of us anyway)what is our dream car and I think that can partially affect it.

You're trying to compare wholesale prices with retail market prices, with dealer shipping, reburb costs, profit, ect being the difference. Not sure you can compare what's going on with Gallardos but their desirability may not be what the Gen V's is, either way apples to oranges. And the market varies from one part of the country to another.

At the end of the day a buyer needs to evaluate the market that they are shopping in and make their own assessment of value based on the cars they see, not some average. If wholesale values limit your ability to get financing then that sucks. Dealers can often finance higher amounts and that may be a better option than buying privately.

[Cheme1985]

Another thought though. Even if in my case I'm not financing the Nada values coming in lower than perceived reality would affect resale right? It limits potential buyers who for one reason or another can't or don't want to plunk down the cash for a new toy. Arguments exist on both sides. Never finance a toy/cash only for recreational things because reasons.

Other side being auto interest rates being in the low single digits (currently 1.9%-3.0% for 36-72 months at my credit union when I just checked) vs investing said dough in an index fund with an average return somewhere north of 5% is giving away $$$.

Supply and demand and all that I suppose. I'm not trying to hurt any feelings. I'm just trying to understand the data and market. Bad habit from too many years squinting at spreadsheets of numbers at work I guess.

[Bryan Savage]

Another thought though. Even if in my case I'm not financing the Nada values coming in lower than perceived reality would affect resale right? It limits potential buyers who for one reason or another can't or don't want to plunk down the cash for a new toy. Arguments exist on both sides. Never finance a toy/cash only for recreational things because reasons.

Other side being auto interest rates being in the low single digits (currently 1.9%-3.0% for 36-72 months at my credit union when I just checked) vs investing said dough in an index fund with an average return somewhere north of 5% is giving away $$$.

Supply and demand and all that I suppose. I'm not trying to hurt any feelings. I'm just trying to understand the data and market. Bad habit from too many years squinting at spreadsheets of numbers at work I guess.

I don't know where NADA or Kelley would get their values. I think there's some maths in there about averaging sale costs across the country or something. I would also bet that any seller will laugh in the face of any NADA value for such a low-production vehicle, and laugh in your face if you tried to use NADA's value to haggle over a car, especially when somehow NADA's value is $30,000+ less than asking price. Realtors hate Zillow and car dealerships hate NADA. lol

[Cheme1985]

Of course they do. The numbers they generate are typically lower than the seller would reasonably like to get for whatever reason. They have a vested interest in selling for the highest price possible in both cases (car dealer and real estate agent). I don't think anyone is shocked to find out that people selling things want to get more money for their wares and people buying said wares want to pay less. lol

I was more driving at trying to figure out why this discrepancy exists. And more specifically why does it seem so high in the Vipers case?

I don't know where NADA or Kelley would get their values. I think there's some maths in there about averaging sale costs across the country or something. I would also bet that any seller will laugh in the face of any NADA value for such a low-production vehicle, and laugh in your face if you tried to use NADA's value to haggle over a car, especially when somehow NADA's value is $30,000+ less than asking price. Realtors hate Zillow and car dealerships hate NADA. lol

[Vipes]

I believe less Gallardos were made per year than vipers, but that data may be wrong (I read it on the internet so it must be true right?).

I'm assuming you meant gen V since that's what you're looking for...

14,022 Gallardos made over 10 years = 1,402/year

3,913 Vipers (gen V) made over 5 years = 782/year

[Bryan Savage]

Of course they do. The numbers they generate are typically lower than the seller would reasonably like to get for whatever reason. They have a vested interest in selling for the highest price possible in both cases (car dealer and real estate agent). I don't think anyone is shocked to find out that people selling things want to get more money for their wares and people buying said wares want to pay less. lol

I was more driving at trying to figure out why this discrepancy exists. And more specifically why does it seem so high in the Vipers case?

Did a quick search and found this website: https://www.investopedia.com/article...d-reliable.asp

"Kelley Blue Book receives real-world used car prices on a daily basis from wholesale auctions, independent and franchised dealers, rental fleets, auto manufacturers, lessors, and private party transactions.

Kelley’s proprietary algorithm analyzes pricing data along with historical trends, current economic conditions, industry developments, time of year, and location to determine Kelley Blue Book values."

I'm sure the takeaway is "proprietary". Obvs, neither they nor NADA are going to share the formulae with you, but I bet that maybe due to there being so few data points for Vipers and other exotics, the algorithms breakdown and spit out inaccurate numbers. It would be nice to have some kind of correction applied, but I'd think that in the Viper's case, you can only pick and choose what you can find on your own to assign your own value. Idk.

[Cheme1985]

I did and I stand corrected. Thanks!

Whether pre and post LP gallardos being the same gen or not is another question I guess.

I'm assuming you meant gen V since that's what you're looking for...

14,022 Gallardos made over 10 years = 1,402/year

3,913 Vipers (gen V) made over 5 years = 782/year

[Cheme1985]

I have seen that site and a few others that attempt the explanation, but I didn’t find the reasoning satisfactory. Proprietary equates to we do not know. I was wondering if anyone had any extra insight. Appears not.

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol

Did a quick search and found this website: https://www.investopedia.com/article...d-reliable.asp

"Kelley Blue Book receives real-world used car prices on a daily basis from wholesale auctions, independent and franchised dealers, rental fleets, auto manufacturers, lessors, and private party transactions.

Kelley’s proprietary algorithm analyzes pricing data along with historical trends, current economic conditions, industry developments, time of year, and location to determine Kelley Blue Book values."

I'm sure the takeaway is "proprietary". Obvs, neither they nor NADA are going to share the formulae with you, but I bet that maybe due to there being so few data points for Vipers and other exotics, the algorithms breakdown and spit out inaccurate numbers. It would be nice to have some kind of correction applied, but I'd think that in the Viper's case, you can only pick and choose what you can find on your own to assign your own value. Idk.

[StrokerAce]

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol

Three. The answer is three. I saw the commercials.

[ViperGTS14]

If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

Plus 1 on that , hated the R8 with the R-tronic which is basically the same trans

[Mark1107]

Rare Unique G5 Viper = Alpha Male
Old & ugly dated Gallardo = beta ricer male

[IHOP]

Keep in mind NADA and KBB are used primarily for mass produced cars. Those values are fairly accurate however I spent 18 years as a director for the largest private dealer group in the country and those values are a starting point. Like Bruce said wholesale/trade in values are a starting point, some vehicles we would value thousands less because those cars are readily available and they don't hold their value. While others would be worth the actual book value but those types are cars were more limited production or specialty cars. NADA and KBB make their money on valuing mass produced cars, a Gallardo or a Viper will not sell for the value of either one of those sources. Most used specialty sports cars are only financed for short term or not at all so those sources aren't very accurate. They are guides, that simple.

[parabs]

Cheme1985 I’ve been in viper ownership for about 5 years. Here’s what you will find, owners who have cars that will sell for their price. They don’t give two shits the car optioned similar four states over is 6k less...Aside from that, good luck finding comparables. Your only chance to find comparable cars is to omit colour from your criteria. You want a certain colour - your entry price probably just went up. Stripes or no stripes? Then you want a specific trim? Good luck getting a deal locally.

The market bears are usually on the outside looking in. The market bulls talk about values skyrocketing. Neither is really true, but prices are quite steady. Once your in you will see year over year pricing that is quite steady.

I bought a gen 3 first, from the outside looking in the prices should have been dropping. Nope. So I jumped in and picked up a car from a dealer, dealer wouldn’t take more than 4% off. Couple years later I traded that car to different dealer and got more on trade than I paid when I picked up my base Gen 5. Gunmetal pearl with black stripes and a base black interior with red leather seats. I’ve not seen another one for sale that mirrors this one...the red seats are a killer in this combo - in my opinion. And guess what, you want one like it you probably have to buy mine. It’s a sellers market despite cars not moving quickly or in significant volumes.

My Gen 3 value change, ~3k USD after 2+ years ownership and putting on about 5k miles.

[Bryan Savage]

I have seen that site and a few others that attempt the explanation, but I didn’t find the reasoning satisfactory. Proprietary equates to we do not know. I was wondering if anyone had any extra insight. Appears not.

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol

True story!!!

I'd be super interested in looking behind the curtain, so-to-speak, at NADA and while we're at it, FICO.

Also, for the record, I counted up to 800+ licks when I was a kid, but started to get bored. Do you lick in just one spot? Or do you have to make all the candy disappear?